Jobs, The Economy or "What's Wrong With These Robots?"

[Silhouette]

It shouldn't be a question of automation vs. manual labor. The fact is that there are millions of Americans who are willing to work, yet are unemployed.

There has to be something that these people can do to be productive and create wealth. People are far more complex and productive that machines. We are suffering from a huge waste of resources by not employing these people.

The fact is that the wealthy just aren't interested in investing and creating jobs for these people.

Here's a plan:

The government should start a $10T, 5 year infrastructure and R&D stimulus program AND they should raise the maximum tax rate to 75%.

The $10T spent will go to consumers stimulating demand. Company profits will soar - so the wealthy will still continue to be wealthy despite the high tax rate.

The government could then use the increase in revenues to pay off the national debt.

It's kind of like having the government just print money to pay it's debt, but instead the money would be filtered thru the economy first.

The wealthy will fight that tooth and nail. [See my last post for why that is]. Mandating the rich step in to save our country is like asking a muslim to denounce Allah on the public square in Tehran.

I get that you want to loosen up all that wealth being hoarded right now. How about this idea instead?: http://www.usmessageboard.com/curre...o-the-economy-without-hurting-capitalism.html

 

[The Rabbi]

Please point to a society that is not greedy.
Virtually every point you have made in this thread has been debunked, disproven, and refuted. You are merely repeating the same thing over and over. We get it: you're an illiterate.

Canada?

You make the mistake of saying "a society". What you meant to say was "a society who has greedy individuals". There will always be greedy people who get giddy watching others suffer as they flourish. It's just not every day you see an entire country building up a political system around rampant greed. They never last. Read your history books.

They never last. And the reason is because greed blinds people to the fact that they need their fellows in order to survive. Hence this thread.

You think Canada is not greedy? WTF?
In any case, Delta is ready when you are.

 

[Rshermr]

Please point to a society that is not greedy.
Virtually every point you have made in this thread has been debunked, disproven, and refuted. You are merely repeating the same thing over and over. We get it: you're an illiterate.

Canada?

You make the mistake of saying "a society". What you meant to say was "a society who has greedy individuals". There will always be greedy people who get giddy watching others suffer as they flourish. It's just not every day you see an entire country building up a political system around rampant greed. They never last. Read your history books.

They never last. And the reason is because greed blinds people to the fact that they need their fellows in order to survive. Hence this thread.

You think Canada is not greedy? WTF?
In any case, Delta is ready when you are.

Much different distribution of wealth in Canada. Much lower ratio of ceo earnings to average worker earnings. Etc, etc, etc.
There is, of course, greed in every nation as everyone knows. Never was the question. Except among congenital idiots. Like someone who calls himself Rabbi.

 

[Silhouette]

You think Canada is not greedy? WTF?
In any case, Delta is ready when you are.

Much different distribution of wealth in Canada. Much lower ratio of ceo earnings to average worker earnings. Etc, etc, etc.
There is, of course, greed in every nation as everyone knows. Never was the question. Except among congenital idiots. Like someone who calls himself Rabbi.

Yes, my point is not if there is or isn't greed in this or that nation, it's whether or not this or that nation has made a political machine out of the worship of insatiable greed like the US has.

When any system goes to extremes, it is a system on the verge of wobbling out of control. When people blindly subscribe to self indulgence, they no longer are objective about what could happen to their unchecked behaviors. What we are witnessing today in America is the chickens coming home to roost. Wealthy people forgot that the less fortunate and their labor particularly is what made and keep them wealthy. When nobody lines up to buy the goods they sell or have stock in the sales of, they will soon join the ranks of the poor and unfortunate.

I repeat: the system of malignant capitalism has finally come full circle.

 

[Rshermr]

You think Canada is not greedy? WTF?
In any case, Delta is ready when you are.

Much different distribution of wealth in Canada. Much lower ratio of ceo earnings to average worker earnings. Etc, etc, etc.
There is, of course, greed in every nation as everyone knows. Never was the question. Except among congenital idiots. Like someone who calls himself Rabbi.

Yes, my point is not if there is or isn't greed in this or that nation, it's whether or not this or that nation has made a political machine out of the worship of insatiable greed like the US has.

When any system goes to extremes, it is a system on the verge of wobbling out of control. When people blindly subscribe to self indulgence, they no longer are objective about what could happen to their unchecked behaviors. What we are witnessing today in America is the chickens coming home to roost. Wealthy people forgot that the less fortunate and their labor particularly is what made and keep them wealthy. When nobody lines up to buy the goods they sell or have stock in the sales of, they will soon join the ranks of the poor and unfortunate.

I repeat: the system of malignant capitalism has finally come full circle.

Or, said differently, the free market was never free. Close, but not quite in the american beginning. But over time it has become less and less so. Those touting "our free market system" are either simply delusional, or paid by the wealthy. There are plenty of both.

 

[Silhouette]

Or, said differently, the free market was never free. Close, but not quite in the american beginning. But over time it has become less and less so. Those touting "our free market system" are either simply delusional, or paid by the wealthy. There are plenty of both.

Greed is a mental illness just like any other. And just like any other, it does not self-examine. Because if it did, it no longer would be an illness, but instead a healed scar and a reminder to the sufferer to not indulge beyond their limits again.

So being blind, greedy people are never able to sit down and do the simple math of "why are my sales plummeting all of a sudden?!!" Like the child who stuffs his mouth from the cookie jar *"gnomm, numm, numm, crunch, crunch"* with zero regulation from an adult, when he finally reaches the bottom to find only crumbs and the porcelain beneath, suddenly screams in shocked disbelief and turns the jar upside down shaking it in vain.

It's just that the American cookie jar was so large, so vast, that the spoiled two year olds thought it would last forever. But it hasn't. And now the crumbs just under the last of the cookies are growing visible. And the infantile minds are starting to panic. Suggesting to them that they should woo the cooks back into the kitchen with the idea of sharing future cookies more equitably is UNTHINKABLE. It is against their religion to share. Their compulsion, like lab rats that researchers often find human behavior resembles unnervingly closely, is to hoard. But now they have no choice because they need the cooks in that kitchen. Their sales depend on those cooks having a job. So we either wait for the greedy to self-examine or we create laws and new incentives to force the situation to replenish the cookie jar before we all go hungry.

 

[Silhouette]

Much different distribution of wealth in Canada. Much lower ratio of ceo earnings to average worker earnings. Etc, etc, etc.
There is, of course, greed in every nation as everyone knows. Never was the question. Except among congenital idiots. Like someone who calls himself Rabbi.

I've always liked Canada's spirit and sense of fair play in its country. They get a little blind and weird with their socialism at times and their political-correctness. I've got a British-type in my family and they really do go to extremes to play down reality to keep from rocking the boat. But other than that they are a model to look to on how to keep things going and make sure crime stays down and people are happy. They balance this with freedom of enterprise and personal innovation.

I'm not saying the US should become Canada. I kind of like the US's wild and wooly side. It's just that a cult of stupid greed is killing her. And maybe Canada should do an intervention of her poor and crazy little sister to the South.

 

[Silhouette]

It's been 51 years since Rosie the robot maid dusted her way through TV's "The Jetsons," and the first real-life robots went to work inside U.S. factories.

How far we've come. Robots are at work everywhere -- from real-life Rosies that keep your hardwood floors spotless to assembly-line mechanical arms that rivet and weld to drone planes that help police track bad guys .

Worldwide, companies bought an estimated 160,000 industrial robots in 2012, with sales in the United States increasing faster than other parts of the world as more businesses here automate manufacturing processes, according to the International Federation of Robotics.

The Obama administration is counting on robots to create jobs -- yes, really -- and spur future economic growth. In March the administration reiterated support for the two-year-old National Robotics Initiative, which is pouring federal funds into research and development of robotics in manufacturing, health care and other industries. 10 robots in the workforce- MSN Money

The more I observe Barack Obama, the more convinced I am that he [and others in high places] simply do not thoroughly investigate the simple elementary school level arithmetic of economics of the policies they sponsor and advocate for. They just have whisperers in their ears and don't bother to think through even the simplest of mechanics of the propositions being made to them daily. If you're not going to THINK about the bare bones of what it is you are trying to push on the country, then step down and let someone with a brain take your place. God we need another influx of Germans to jumpstart this train wreck again.

Really? An exponential rise in robots will create jobs for people? Really? I mean, really?...

A refresher pictoral from the front page is needed here I think. Which one of the two pictures below features entities that buy property, go on vacations, buy groceries, clothing, sundries, petrolium, cars, etc. and who pay taxes?

 

[DGS49]

(1) With the advances in modern technology, if every potential American worker were working productively, full time, we could produce twice the goods and services that we require, collectively.

(2) In past years, we could sell the excess production overseas, but as the world modernizes and other countries do the same things we are doing, we end up with the situation where we can no longer sell our excess production capacity offshore. And the people who could USE our excess production (India, Africa, the third world generally) do not have the MONEY to pay for it.

(3) Keep in mind that a few short generations ago, most households had ONE full time wage earner. Now a typical household has TWO full-time wage earners (or persons who would want to be a full-time wage earner). The Economy created a tremendous number of new jobs since women/wives/mothers started going to work in massive numbers, but with the global economy we simply don't need to have two productive workers in every household, even if those households have a need for two incomes. Perverse, isn't it?

(4) Having millions of poor immigrants hanging around the country, willing to work for slave wages, depresses wages for those Americans at the bottom of the pile, who are - to be honest - not willing to work as hard or as long as a "Mexican" for the available wages.

(5) If I were emperor I would pass a law that prohibits two FT incomes in any household. One FT income and one 1/2T income per household, max (not including kids still going to school full time). Families have 6 months from implementation to decide which full time position they will retain and which one will "retire." Most households will have to scale back a bit, but the unemployment crisis will be over.

 

[Rshermr]

(1) With the advances in modern technology, if every potential American worker were working productively, full time, we could produce twice the goods and services that we require, collectively.

(2) In past years, we could sell the excess production overseas, but as the world modernizes and other countries do the same things we are doing, we end up with the situation where we can no longer sell our excess production capacity offshore. And the people who could USE our excess production (India, Africa, the third world generally) do not have the MONEY to pay for it.

(3) Keep in mind that a few short generations ago, most households had ONE full time wage earner. Now a typical household has TWO full-time wage earners (or persons who would want to be a full-time wage earner). The Economy created a tremendous number of new jobs since women/wives/mothers started going to work in massive numbers, but with the global economy we simply don't need to have two productive workers in every household, even if those households have a need for two incomes. Perverse, isn't it?

(4) Having millions of poor immigrants hanging around the country, willing to work for slave wages, depresses wages for those Americans at the bottom of the pile, who are - to be honest - not willing to work as hard or as long as a "Mexican" for the available wages.

(5) If I were emperor I would pass a law that prohibits two FT incomes in any household. One FT income and one 1/2T income per household, max (not including kids still going to school full time). Families have 6 months from implementation to decide which full time position they will retain and which one will "retire." Most households will have to scale back a bit, but the unemployment crisis will be over.

Yup, but you are not emperor. So, not any value in your post.

 

[Silhouette]

(1) With the advances in modern technology, if every potential American worker were working productively, full time, we could produce twice the goods and services that we require, collectively.

(2) In past years, we could sell the excess production overseas, but as the world modernizes and other countries do the same things we are doing, we end up with the situation where we can no longer sell our excess production capacity offshore. And the people who could USE our excess production (India, Africa, the third world generally) do not have the MONEY to pay for it.

(3) Keep in mind that a few short generations ago, most households had ONE full time wage earner. Now a typical household has TWO full-time wage earners (or persons who would want to be a full-time wage earner). The Economy created a tremendous number of new jobs since women/wives/mothers started going to work in massive numbers, but with the global economy we simply don't need to have two productive workers in every household, even if those households have a need for two incomes. Perverse, isn't it?

(4) Having millions of poor immigrants hanging around the country, willing to work for slave wages, depresses wages for those Americans at the bottom of the pile, who are - to be honest - not willing to work as hard or as long as a "Mexican" for the available wages.

(5) If I were emperor I would pass a law that prohibits two FT incomes in any household. One FT income and one 1/2T income per household, max (not including kids still going to school full time). Families have 6 months from implementation to decide which full time position they will retain and which one will "retire." Most households will have to scale back a bit, but the unemployment crisis will be over.

Wow are you high on crack with that bit in bold. "..scale back a bit.."? How do you "scale back" from being near foreclosure each month with two incomes? You going to simultaneously drop the price of goods and services, real estate where these people have to live? How would you do the elementary school level math to allow these people to remain in homes, feed, clothe and provide healthcare for their kids? Are you saying you are FOR Universal Healthcare? FOR raising the minimum wage to at least double what it is now?

Or are you proposing these families who live in the real world where two incomes are mandatory, move out instead to a tent with a butane burner and lots of donated coats and blankets to get their kids through the Winter? Maybe they could learn to build igloos?

Seriously, the rich of this country are so completely out of touch with the basic math in the vast majority of households that if they sat through a month of what we common folk, the erstwhile middle class, have to live through, they would die of shock. Their hair would turn white at the pace most folks have to keep just to barely make ends meet.

There would be no time for the golf course, no money for that expensive hair, no mani-pedis, no $1,000 suits packing their closets, no trips abroad or anywhere else for that matter, no ...you get the picture.

One remedy that might snap this country around is "take a Senator home with you this month" program. Like an exchange program. Let them travel around with the wage earners like the show Dirty Jobs. Let them see the bills going out and the income coming in and what's left at the end of the month.

Since that might be a security problem, maybe instead they could be required to pass a course called "audit a normal person's life". Volunteers from the working classes could offer up a paper portfolio of their lives, their incomes, number of kids, mortgage, bills, obligations etc. and like a school class project, in order to "graduate" each Congressperson would have to present a balanced budget for that family with every single detail of their outflow and income logged down in that Congressperson's actual handwriting [instead of getting an aide to do it].

Audit a normal person's life. Then maybe they might be better positioned to make good policy per this thread. There will be the sociopaths, the narcissists among them that only took the position for power, admiration and greed who even after such an eye opener will not give one flying f... But there are a fair number of politicians even today that are capable of moral fiber if the stark facts are in front of them.

Rich people get out of touch. I myself, always on the verge of default, have people even less fortunate than myself that if I was to live a month in their shoes would shock me back into reality. People need to be shocked now and then. It's good for the overall economy..

 

[Silhouette]

How many of the robots in the OP will buy new SUVs that get 12mpg?

It's a little math question for Trump's cabinet.

 

[HenryBHough]

How many of the robots in the OP will buy new SUVs that get 12mpg?

It's a little math question for Trump's cabinet.

Good question!

But I don't think ALL the Italian contractors in New York are robots.