Jefferson – the 51st US State?

[jillian]

Irony: busting on a state's education and then misspelling the state's name.

that was just typing quickly. but thanks for responding to the substance. oh wait, you didn't.

the reality is that the states with the poorest educations are red states... not "urban" areas in blue states.

you're welcome.

You know that is odd, because I live in a very red state and I teach in a rural high school and we are one of the top schools in this country. How do you explain that?

well, i'm glad you teach in a good school. where does your school draw its students from? poor people? or middle class and wealthy people?

and i have no doubt there are some good schools in red states, just like there are bad schools in some cities. but as a whole, education is worst in red states as shown by the links i provided.

Your links were a joke. Anyone can cherry pick. Inner city schools are doing great compared to rural communities? I call bull.

It depends on the individual school. Chicago has the top 4 high schools in Illinois and 5 of the top 10 overall. Chicago also has something like 20 of the 25 worst high schools in Illinois. Rural schools in Illinois are generally just average, most of the really good schools are in the Chicago burbs.

could that correlate with the greater wealth in suburban areas?

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

My high school where I work has students who are mostly dirt poor.

No, you have a misconception common to education bashers. You keep saying the school failed. No, the students failed. If I have student that maintains a 100% grade throughout the term, I consider that evidence that the material was presented in a way that learning was possible. The schools don't fail. The teachers don't fail. The students fail.

You simply cannot make chicken salad out of chicken shit!

I'll share this little tidbit with you. I had a student get smart with me yesterday when I asked him where his textbook was. He didn't know. I then asked where his paper was. He said he didn't have any, knowing that I will provide if he tells me. He couldn't be bothered. Same story with his pencil.

This kid accomplishes two things in life. He consumes oxygen and radiates heat while in my classroom. That is it. He then had the audacity to say that "if I taught something, then maybe then he could learn". This was said as I was going over the rules for operations with exponents for the third time in as many days. Who is at fault in this situation? Everyone else who puts forth any effort in my class makes good grades. Where is his responsibility to learn?

A few years ago, I taught in the worst middle school in the state. Believe me it was not by choice because I needed the job to support my family. That school was completely packed with students just exactly like the one I described above. They suffer from learned helplessness taught by their parents and a complete lack of desire to educate themselves. They are getting their golden ticket punched entitling them to a lifetime of poverty and government dependence.

My two oldest children attended the high school where I taught in Florida. The state graded it a "C" school because that is what the test scores said. My children were excellent students and had good test scores. Both could have easily gone on to college and been successful if they wanted, but they had other plans. For every student like my child, there was the child who would hang out in the woods two days a week smoking pot instead of coming to school, stay up all night playing video games and then come to school and then try to sleep through classes, or plied their trade in the illegal drug trade. How are they supposed to be successful if they don't even take advantage of what is available..

No, schools don't fail. The students inside those schools failed.

Pre-K programs work. My grand kids all attended programs and I think they are well worth the money.

is it a charter school or a public school? i ask because charter schools get to pick and choose their students (like my son's magnet school) or is it neighborhood based?

this particular kid might be a wise guy. or maybe his mother doesn't give him paper or doesn't care. i like the pre-k programs because they force the parents to be responsible, too. and i won't ever argue that if parents yeah disrespect for teachers that doesn't create problems. it does. but if someone doesn't have the tools to learn well (e.g., they're hungry, they don't have access to support for school work, etc, or their community not only doesn't value education but ridicules kids for trying) then we aren't going to have successful students.

i disagree to the extent that if you take two schools with the same type of student community one fails one succeeds, then it isn't only the students who are the problem.

as for the pre-k programs, we agree 100%. they're worth their weight in gold. yet, they're one of the first things that right-leaning pols like to cut.

The high school where I teach is the county high school in a predominantly farming community about 50 miles from anything that could be called a city.

As to your comment regarding two schools with the same type of student community, I have yet to see one with my schools demographics not be successful. I taught in a very similar school about four years ago. No major differences.

well, i'm going to guess you've been a teacher for a while given that you have grandkids. maybe you've gotten better school opportunities because of your seniority. (that happens here in new york). but i can only go by the numbers in terms of where schools are better and where they are worse.

but kudos to you for being a teacher. it's not something i'd have had the patience to do.... or at least do well.

I have been a teacher 19 years, but I am the lowest seniority teacher in my department (tied with one other) and we are the oldest in the department. Neither of us have tenure yet. The three twenty-somethings in my department have been there longer. Schools do not hire on the basis of seniority because it costs them more.

that wouldn't happen here.

maybe *that's* why our numbers are better. seems length of service should be rewarded.

It is rewarded with higher pay, but when I went from my nearly 10 years teaching in Florida to a Department of Defense school, I was only given 5 of my 10 years credit for service. Many other districts, given the choice between a teacher right out of college or one with 20 years experience will choose the less costly option if all things are equal. I was actually told by my district's high school teacher placement official that was why I was never hired in that district for a position based on my degree. I was later hired to teach math, which was a much harder position to fill.

 

[AceRothstein]

that was just typing quickly. but thanks for responding to the substance. oh wait, you didn't.

the reality is that the states with the poorest educations are red states... not "urban" areas in blue states.

you're welcome.

You know that is odd, because I live in a very red state and I teach in a rural high school and we are one of the top schools in this country. How do you explain that?

well, i'm glad you teach in a good school. where does your school draw its students from? poor people? or middle class and wealthy people?

and i have no doubt there are some good schools in red states, just like there are bad schools in some cities. but as a whole, education is worst in red states as shown by the links i provided.

Your links were a joke. Anyone can cherry pick. Inner city schools are doing great compared to rural communities? I call bull.

It depends on the individual school. Chicago has the top 4 high schools in Illinois and 5 of the top 10 overall. Chicago also has something like 20 of the 25 worst high schools in Illinois. Rural schools in Illinois are generally just average, most of the really good schools are in the Chicago burbs.

could that correlate with the greater wealth in suburban areas?

It absolutely does based on how schools are funded in Illinois.

 

[Unkotare]

You know that is odd, because I live in a very red state and I teach in a rural high school and we are one of the top schools in this country. How do you explain that?

well, i'm glad you teach in a good school. where does your school draw its students from? poor people? or middle class and wealthy people?

and i have no doubt there are some good schools in red states, just like there are bad schools in some cities. but as a whole, education is worst in red states as shown by the links i provided. my son's (public) high school was a national school of merit. but the high school he was zoned for (and which luckily he didn't have to go to) failed. but again, as a whole, blue states provide better educations.

on another subject, let me ask you something. i'm a big proponent of head start type programs because they teach kids how to read and do school work early and also incorporate parental involvement. would you agree those programs should be fully funded?

My high school where I work has students who are mostly dirt poor.

No, you have a misconception common to education bashers. You keep saying the school failed. No, the students failed. If I have student that maintains a 100% grade throughout the term, I consider that evidence that the material was presented in a way that learning was possible. The schools don't fail. The teachers don't fail. The students fail.

You simply cannot make chicken salad out of chicken shit!

I'll share this little tidbit with you. I had a student get smart with me yesterday when I asked him where his textbook was. He didn't know. I then asked where his paper was. He said he didn't have any, knowing that I will provide if he tells me. He couldn't be bothered. Same story with his pencil.

This kid accomplishes two things in life. He consumes oxygen and radiates heat while in my classroom. That is it. He then had the audacity to say that "if I taught something, then maybe then he could learn". This was said as I was going over the rules for operations with exponents for the third time in as many days. Who is at fault in this situation? Everyone else who puts forth any effort in my class makes good grades. Where is his responsibility to learn?

A few years ago, I taught in the worst middle school in the state. Believe me it was not by choice because I needed the job to support my family. That school was completely packed with students just exactly like the one I described above. They suffer from learned helplessness taught by their parents and a complete lack of desire to educate themselves. They are getting their golden ticket punched entitling them to a lifetime of poverty and government dependence.

My two oldest children attended the high school where I taught in Florida. The state graded it a "C" school because that is what the test scores said. My children were excellent students and had good test scores. Both could have easily gone on to college and been successful if they wanted, but they had other plans. For every student like my child, there was the child who would hang out in the woods two days a week smoking pot instead of coming to school, stay up all night playing video games and then come to school and then try to sleep through classes, or plied their trade in the illegal drug trade. How are they supposed to be successful if they don't even take advantage of what is available..

No, schools don't fail. The students inside those schools failed.

Pre-K programs work. My grand kids all attended programs and I think they are well worth the money.

is it a charter school or a public school? i ask because charter schools get to pick and choose their students (like my son's magnet school) or is it neighborhood based?

this particular kid might be a wise guy. or maybe his mother doesn't give him paper or doesn't care. i like the pre-k programs because they force the parents to be responsible, too. and i won't ever argue that if parents yeah disrespect for teachers that doesn't create problems. it does. but if someone doesn't have the tools to learn well (e.g., they're hungry, they don't have access to support for school work, etc, or their community not only doesn't value education but ridicules kids for trying) then we aren't going to have successful students.

i disagree to the extent that if you take two schools with the same type of student community one fails one succeeds, then it isn't only the students who are the problem.

as for the pre-k programs, we agree 100%. they're worth their weight in gold. yet, they're one of the first things that right-leaning pols like to cut.

The high school where I teach is the county high school in a predominantly farming community about 50 miles from anything that could be called a city.

As to your comment regarding two schools with the same type of student community, I have yet to see one with my schools demographics not be successful. I taught in a very similar school about four years ago. No major differences.

well, i'm going to guess you've been a teacher for a while given that you have grandkids. maybe you've gotten better school opportunities because of your seniority. (that happens here in new york). but i can only go by the numbers in terms of where schools are better and where they are worse.

but kudos to you for being a teacher. it's not something i'd have had the patience to do.... or at least do well.

You'd have to learn English first.

 

[Iceweasel]

Irony: busting on a state's education and then misspelling the state's name.

that was just typing quickly. but thanks for responding to the substance. oh wait, you didn't.

the reality is that the states with the poorest educations are red states... not "urban" areas in blue states.

you're welcome.

You know that is odd, because I live in a very red state and I teach in a rural high school and we are one of the top schools in this country. How do you explain that?

well, i'm glad you teach in a good school. where does your school draw its students from? poor people? or middle class and wealthy people?

and i have no doubt there are some good schools in red states, just like there are bad schools in some cities. but as a whole, education is worst in red states as shown by the links i provided.

Your links were a joke. Anyone can cherry pick. Inner city schools are doing great compared to rural communities? I call bull.

It depends on the individual school. Chicago has the top 4 high schools in Illinois and 5 of the top 10 overall. Chicago also has something like 20 of the 25 worst high schools in Illinois. Rural schools in Illinois are generally just average, most of the really good schools are in the Chicago burbs.

That's why I said earlier:
"The whole red state blue state mantra is for the mentally impaired anyway. You can't find a good school in a state that leans Republican or a bad one in a state that leans Democrat?"
But I got tired of repeating myself to her.

 

[jillian]

that was just typing quickly. but thanks for responding to the substance. oh wait, you didn't.

the reality is that the states with the poorest educations are red states... not "urban" areas in blue states.

you're welcome.

You know that is odd, because I live in a very red state and I teach in a rural high school and we are one of the top schools in this country. How do you explain that?

well, i'm glad you teach in a good school. where does your school draw its students from? poor people? or middle class and wealthy people?

and i have no doubt there are some good schools in red states, just like there are bad schools in some cities. but as a whole, education is worst in red states as shown by the links i provided.

Your links were a joke. Anyone can cherry pick. Inner city schools are doing great compared to rural communities? I call bull.

It depends on the individual school. Chicago has the top 4 high schools in Illinois and 5 of the top 10 overall. Chicago also has something like 20 of the 25 worst high schools in Illinois. Rural schools in Illinois are generally just average, most of the really good schools are in the Chicago burbs.

That's why I said earlier:
"The whole red state blue state mantra is for the mentally impaired anyway. You can't find a good school in a state that leans Republican or a bad one in a state that leans Democrat?"
But I got tired of repeating myself to her.

wishful thinking on your part.

so stop repeating yourself.

 

[Iceweasel]

You know that is odd, because I live in a very red state and I teach in a rural high school and we are one of the top schools in this country. How do you explain that?

well, i'm glad you teach in a good school. where does your school draw its students from? poor people? or middle class and wealthy people?

and i have no doubt there are some good schools in red states, just like there are bad schools in some cities. but as a whole, education is worst in red states as shown by the links i provided.

Your links were a joke. Anyone can cherry pick. Inner city schools are doing great compared to rural communities? I call bull.

It depends on the individual school. Chicago has the top 4 high schools in Illinois and 5 of the top 10 overall. Chicago also has something like 20 of the 25 worst high schools in Illinois. Rural schools in Illinois are generally just average, most of the really good schools are in the Chicago burbs.

That's why I said earlier:
"The whole red state blue state mantra is for the mentally impaired anyway. You can't find a good school in a state that leans Republican or a bad one in a state that leans Democrat?"
But I got tired of repeating myself to her.

wishful thinking on your part.

so stop repeating yourself.

Your brain must be on life support.

 

[Unkotare]

well, i'm glad you teach in a good school. where does your school draw its students from? poor people? or middle class and wealthy people?

and i have no doubt there are some good schools in red states, just like there are bad schools in some cities. but as a whole, education is worst in red states as shown by the links i provided.

Your links were a joke. Anyone can cherry pick. Inner city schools are doing great compared to rural communities? I call bull.

It depends on the individual school. Chicago has the top 4 high schools in Illinois and 5 of the top 10 overall. Chicago also has something like 20 of the 25 worst high schools in Illinois. Rural schools in Illinois are generally just average, most of the really good schools are in the Chicago burbs.

That's why I said earlier:
"The whole red state blue state mantra is for the mentally impaired anyway. You can't find a good school in a state that leans Republican or a bad one in a state that leans Democrat?"
But I got tired of repeating myself to her.

wishful thinking on your part.

so stop repeating yourself.

Your brain must be on life support.

Dammit Jim, it's too late!