Coyote I'm still curious to know what made you reach the conclusion that Israel is often discriminating Palestinians regarding WB terrorism.
From what I've read, the articles I've quoted in this thread: arrests in settler-sponsored violence on Palestinians are rare compared to arrests when it's Palestinian violence on settlers. Settlers are handled with kid gloves. This is well supported.
Very well, so first of all the number of incidents is one factor you must keep in mind, while the second factor is the alleged actions of the suspects (note the difference between suspects and convicted criminals)
The police and Shin Bet both have dedicated departments dealing with Jewish settlers alon.
So perhaps can you be more accurate?
I'm still unable to understand the reason you say that.
Kid gloves seen softening Israeli crackdown on pro-settler vandals Reuters
Yet despite dozens of arrests, there have been few convictions, and the vandalism continues to occur almost weekly. Churches, peace activists and even the Israeli army have also been targets.
"In every incident, we go for the maximum possible charges, but in the end we tend to run up against a void in the court system," Chief-Inspector Shmuel Gerbi, lead investigator for the police's price-tag taskforce, told Reuters in an interview.
Some security officials and independent experts say if the crackdown is failing, the problem is that the justice system handles price-tag suspects with kid gloves. Even in Netanyahu's own governing coalition, there are those who advocate leniency.
...The methods recall those used against Palestinian militants, something the Shin Bet says is warranted as price taggers usually strike covertly, at dark and in small bands.
But in contrast to Israel's mass jailing of Palestinian suspects, only one price tagger has seen serious prison time so far: a man sentenced to a year for slashing Arab car tires and daubing a death threat on the wall of an Israeli anti-settler activist's home...
Police say there are only a few score culprits, many known by name. A high number of suspects - some 50 percent, according to police - are underaged, some as young as 12.
"It is very hard to get a judge to approve holding young minors for interrogation, and that makes the investigation difficult," Shaffer said.
The Shin Bet, according to one veteran officer, itself avoids using underaged suspects as informants or questioning them even briefly without their parents present.
This doesn't hold true with Palestinian minors who are frequently taken and held and questioned without parents or legal assistance. That is certainly one major inequity in the way they are handled.
Now, further in the article it's clear that they are trying to crack down on this violence but there are clear political obstacles and social obstacles when they do and equally clear - that there is a general sentiment that civil rights are important to Jewish settlers when they are arrested but not Palestinians who are routinely denied access to lawyers.
It was the first time the Shin Bet had kept an Israeli incommunicado in a price tag case. In a statement, the security agency called the three settlers' alleged vandalism a "terror attack" - implicitly putting price taggers in the same category as the armed Palestinian militants who are its usual quarry.
Uri Ariel, a cabinet minister from the far-right Jewish Home party that sits in Netanyahu's coalition, excoriated the Shin Bet for the move. Denying the settler access to lawyers, he said, recalled "dark regimes, the Middle Ages".
"The Shin Bet should be kind enough to try not to breach the civil rights of Israeli citizens," Ariel told Army Radio in a February 6 interview.
Here is another article, from PRI on stone throwers:
In the West Bank Israeli and Palestinian kids who throw stones face unequal justice Public Radio International
For young people growing up in the West Bank, the quickest form of protest is never more than an arm’s reach away. It’s the stone on the ground. When hurled at the opposing side, it is a tool of violence for both Israelis and Palestinians alike.
It’s also against the law. But that law is different depending on whether you are an Israeli citizen or a Palestinian, as reporter Daniel Estrin revealed and co-authored in an investigative report for the Associated Press.
“Israeli settlers are prosecuted under Israeli civilian law, but Palestinians, who live just a few minutes away from those Israeli settlers, are subject to a completely different set of laws — military laws and the military justice system,” Estrin said.
The act of stone-throwing can be dangerous, which is why it is treated as a crime. “Rock throwing may seem like, sort of kids play, but Israeli security officials say these rocks can kill,” Estrin said.
And both sides in the conflict use stones. “This tactic of stone-throwing has been adopted by particularly extremist Israeli settlers who also throw stones at Palestinians,” Estrin said. “In the West Bank, rocks are aplenty. It’s a very rocky terrain, and all you have to do to fight someone is to bend down and pick up a rock.”
Between 2008 and 2013, the number of young Palestinians arrested by police for throwing stones was 1,142, while the number of young Israeli settlers arrested was 53. The consequences for a Palestinian, he said, can range from three to eight months of a military prison sentence, while the typical outcome for an Israeli is release without being convicted.
From
Authorities handling of complaints regarding settler violence B Tselem
Israeli security forces have done little to prevent settler violence or to arrest offenders. Many acts of violence have never been investigated; in other cases, investigations have been drawn out and resulted in no action being taken against anyone.From the beginning of the second intifada in September 2000 and through December 2011, B’Tselem contacted the Israel Police concerning 352 incidents of settler-perpetrated violence against Palestinians or their property, inquiring whether investigations had been opened in these incidents and what the current status is in investigations that had been opened. Insofar as is known to B’Tselem, in 71 percent of the cases, an investigation was opened; in about 23 percent, no investigation was opened; in 6 percent no response was received or the request could not be located. An indictment was filed in only 11 percent of all cases in which investigations were opened. In cases where settlers were tried and convicted, they were generally given extremely light sentences – in stark contrast to the policy of law enforcement and punishment where Palestinians harm Israelis.
Okey now let's consider the factors I was talking about earlier, starting off with suspects.
There at least 1.8 Palestinians in the WB, something like 350 Jewish settlers and the statistics of B'Tzelem you kindly shared with us.
2000-2011 352 incidents occurred, at the very least (my assumption) 80% charges of vandalism..Those compared to rock throwing during riots, it's a much harsher charges, do you really think there is a way to compare those?
Charges of assault (most of the time against security forces) to charges of vandalism that is most of the times just a graffiti?
Demographics of the Palestinian territories - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
Ok - I agree that demographics matter in terms of raw numbers, point taken. However look at this one statement pertaining to rock throwing.
Between 2008 and 2013, the number of young Palestinians arrested by police for throwing stones was 1,142, while the number of young Israeli settlers arrested was 53. The consequences for a Palestinian, he said, can range from three to eight months of a military prison sentence, while the typical outcome for an Israeli is release without being convicted.
You have a gross disparity in outcome for the same offense.
According to this UNICEF Report:
http://www.unicef.org/oPt/UNICEF_oP...ations_and_Recommendations_-_6_March_2013.pdf some 700 Palestinian children between 12 and 17 are arrested, interrogated, and detained by Israeli authorities each year.
Page 10 - 11
The analysis of the cases monitored by UNICEF identified examples of practices that amount to cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment according to the Convention on the Rights of the Child and the Convention against Torture. What amounts to ill–treatment depends on the facts and circumstances of each case. However, the common experience of many children is being aggressively awakened in the middle of the night by many armed soldiers and being forcibly brought to an interrogation centre tied and blindfolded, sleep deprived and in a state of extreme fear. Few children are informed of their right to legal counsel.
The children are questioned by men dressed in civilian clothes or military uniforms, or sometimes in Israeli police uniforms. No child has been accompanied by a lawyer or family member during the interrogation, despite article 37(d) of the Convention on the Rights of the Child, which requires that: “Every child deprived of his or her liberty shall have the right to prompt access to legal and other appropriate assistance.” The children are rarely informed of their rights, particularly the right against selfincrimination, despite another requirement in the same article stating that every child deprived of liberty shall have “the right to challenge the legality of the deprivation of his or her liberty before a court or other competent, independent and impartial authority, and to a prompt decision on any such action.” There is no independent oversight of the interrogation process.
The absence of independent oversight of the interrogation process is significant, because third-party scrutiny of the methods of interrogation can be an effective measure to limit the use of ill-treatment and other coercive techniques during questioning. This oversight can be provided by having the child’s lawyer and family member present during questioning and by making an audio-visual recording of the proceedings. Recording the proceedings, implemented in a number of jurisdictions (including the Israeli civilian legal system in certain circumstances) provides some measure of protection to the detainee against ill-treatment. It also protects the interrogator against false allegations of wrongdoing
Compare that with this statement from the article I quoted ealier talking about Jewish suspects:
"It is very hard to get a judge to approve holding young minors for interrogation, and that makes the investigation difficult," Shaffer said.
The Shin Bet, according to one veteran officer, itself avoids using underaged suspects as informants or questioning them even briefly without their parents present.
When the crime is vandalism - that can cover a wide range of things - things that culminated in the burning of that family.
Here is Wikipedia's list of crimes and suspected crimes done by Price Taggers:
List of Israeli price tag attacks - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
They include vandalism, but they also include a number of grossly escalated crimes such as arson and large scale property destruction:
- 30 October 2011 – Vandals torched an Arab restaurant in Jaffa, and, according to a Tel Aviv-Jaffa city council member, the phrases "price tag" and "Kahane was right." were scrawled on its walls.[46]
- 7 December 2011 – Arsonists tried to set fire to the mosque of the Palestinian village of Burkina, near the settlement of Ariel, and also torched two Palestinian vehicles, in a suspected 'price tag' assault.[47]
- 13 December 2011 – 50 settlers and right-wing Jewish activists broke into the Efraim Regional Brigade Headquarters near the settlement of Kedumim, damaging military vehicles, torching tires, hurling Molotov cocktails and throwing rocks. An IDF spokesman Brig.-Gen. Yoav Mordechai however refrained from using this term for the incident, noting that IDF Chief of General Staff Lt.-Gen. Benny Gantz hasn't used it for some time, and said that it needed to be defined correctly.[48][49]
- 14–15 Dec 2011 – Arsonists defaced and torched the mosque at the Palestinian village of Burqa near Nablus, The slogans "Mitzpe Yitzhar" and "War," scrawled on the mosque suggest this was a 'price tag' retaliation for the dismantlement of the illegal settlement of Mitzpe Yitzhar conducted earlier by the IDF.[51]
- 19 June 2012 – The 'Grand Mosque' the West Bank village of Jab'a was set alight and sprayed with the graffiti, 'The war has begun', and 'price tag', apparently in response to the evacuation of the Jewish settlement at Ulpana.[63][64]
- 14 November 2013. A Palestinian home in the West Bank village of Sinjil was set alight, with 5 Palestinians suffering from smoke inhalation. Half the house was destroyed. The owners attributed the act to four settlers. On one of the walls, the slogan "Regards from Eden, Revenge" was painted. It is suspected it was a price tag assault partially to avenge the murder of a 19 yr old IDF soldier, Eden Attias, at Afula, earlier.[105]
- 15 January 2014. A mosque in the village of Deir Istiya near Ariel was set fire to, and the slogans "Arabs Out","Hi from Qusra' and "Revenge for spilled blood in Qusra" sprayed on its walls.[117][118][119]
- 12 November 2014. Settlers reportedly torched the mosque at al-Mughayyir and spraypainted racist slogans at the site.[147][148]
- 23 November 2014. In a suspected price tag operation, settlers, attacking with Molotov cocktails and stun grenades, torched the home of the widow of Abd al-Karim Hussein Hamayil in Khirbet Abu Falah, scrawling "Death to the Arabs," and "Avenge the blood of the fallen servants" in Hebrew at the site.[149][150]
- 29 November 2014 The bilingual Jewish-Arab Max Rayne Hand in Hand school in the Pat Neighbourhood of Jerusalem was torched by vandals, who sprayed slogans like "enough with assimilation", "you can't coexist with a cancer," "Kahane was right" and "death to Arabs".[151][152] 3 Members of the radical right-wing group Lehava, Yitzah Gabay and the brothers Nahman and Shlomo Twitto, were arrested on suspicion of the arson on December 6, and later admitted their culpability. One of their mothers said:'It’s disgusting that Jews and Arabs learn side by side . . If we didn’t have a country governed by law, I would have done the same.[153]
- 26 February 2015. An arson attack on a Greek Orthodox seminary for the study of Christianity next to Jaffa Gate in Jerusalem destroyed the bathroom. The walls were smeared with graffiti, including "Jesus is a son of a *****", and "the Redemption of Zion".[156] The action was defined as a price tag attack by the Arab Joint List party.[157]
- 18 June 2015. In a suspected price tag attack by extremists, arsonists burnt down part of the Benedictine Church of the Multiplication at Tabgha, on the Sea of Galilee. The walls were daubed with the words " "The false gods will be eliminated" , a citation from a Jewish prayer. 16 Israeli youths, 10 from the settlement of Yitzhar were briefly detained for interrogation and then released.[159][160] On July 12, police arrested several Israeli youths on suspicion of being behind the arson attack.[161]
- 31 July 2015. 18-month-old Ali Saad Dawabsha was killed, two houses burnt down and three family members, including a 4-year-old child, hospitalized with severe burns after a suspected arson attack by Jewish extremists in Duma, near Nablus.[162] Graffiti was left on the walls saying "Long live Messiah the king", "Price Tag" and "Revenge".[163] The attack is suspected to be in reaction to the Israeli government demolishing illegally built houses in Beit El.[164]
Now it does look like they are taking the Price Tagging crimes more seriously but there is still a big descrepency between the treatment of those and the treatment of Palestinians for similar crimes:
Price tag perpetrators sentenced to unprecedented 30 months in prison - Arab-Israeli Conflict - Jerusalem Post
The Lod District Court endorsed a plea bargain sentencing two men to an unprecedented 30 months in prison for a “price-tag” attack involving arson of Palestinian cars motivated by racism in November 2013.
The sentence against the two, Yehuda Landsberg and Yehuda Savir of the Gilad Farm outpost, also included a 12-month suspended sentence that kicks in if they commit a similar offense in the next three years and compensatory damages of NIS 15,000 each.
Until recently, those committing similar attacks were often not even arrested or indicted.
In those cases where they were indicted the sentences were exceedingly lenient.
In one glaring example, in June 2013, a group of right-wing activists who had set up a “war room” to effectively spy on IDF movements in the West Bank to prevent and frustrate military actions to demolish or curtail illegal Jewish-built structures was sentenced to community service.
