Israeli forces shoot unarmed protesters from across Gaza security fence, killing at least 15

[Billo_Really]

Tell me when You find a brain in there,

or try Your luck walking towards Israeli border shouting "tear Your hearts away!",
Palestinians can provide a Swastika for better effect.

Good luck smart guy.

Israel's use of force are war crimes and its leaders should be prosecuted in the ICC.

 

[Billo_Really]

Sweetheart if you were putting bombs on you all's OWN fences I'd have no problem. Israel is not invading Gaza. Other way around.

Israeli snipers are deliberately shooting unarmed Palestinian's on Palestinian soil. That's an invasion.

 

[Billo_Really]

Not zero.

If you mean zero do zero. Otherwise it's just bullshit.

Going from 400 - 1 is pretty impressive. It was also moot. Israel didn't do jack shit in return. So **** Israel!

 

[Billo_Really]

Awwww. Aren’t they cute?

They're actually war crimes, because the rockets are considered an indiscriminate weapon.

 

[Billo_Really]

All the videos I've seen they were unarmed protesters getting shot for the same reason a dog licks' its balls.

They were shot because they were itchy?

You never heard that?

Why does a dog lick its balls?

Because it can!

 

[Billo_Really]

I agree, that is how it works...yet...they can't leave, even if they don't support violence - they, their children, families are stuck unless they attempt highly dangerous illegal crossings.

And if she decided to go visit Niagra Falls (on the Canadian side), the US Coast Guard doesn't sit there across the border and fire pot shots at her.

 

[Billo_Really]

Right of return for whom? To where?

For them, to there.

 

[Billo_Really]

That is a bit of a problem. Israel HAS harrassed journalists...

Israel : Independent media constrained by military censorship | Reporters without borders
The Israeli media are free to be outspoken, which is rare in the Middle East. Nonetheless, despite the existence of independent media, journalists are subject to “military censorship.” The Israel Defense Forces often violate the rights of Palestinian journalists and journalists of other nations, especially when they are covering demonstrations. Under Israel’s system of administrative detention, Palestinian journalists can be held indefinitely without trial, without formal charge, and without notifying a lawyer. They are often accused of inciting violence, cooperating with terrorist organizations, or otherwise posing a threat to Israel’s security

Just like Germany in the early '30's.

 

[Billo_Really]

I don't agree. Hamas has done little for the Palestinians. Hamas is for Hamas. They won an election because they Fatah's corruption became unbearable. Hamas has not shown itself to be any better.

What have they done to improve the lot of the Palestinians? Have they invested in economies? Infrastructure? Schools? Peace partnerships with anyone?

As a matter of fact, they have. The problem is, Hamas completes street improvements on a Gaza street by putting up street lights and the IDF comes along later and shoots out the lamps at the top.

 

[rylah]

The biggest mistake of the Gazans, imo was that they allowed Hamas to easily and quickly hijack the European organized march.

Swastikas, rifles, IED's and threats of mass murder followed. They themselves basically gave Israel a very solid basis for a military action, and moral backup.

Get this through - they're marching with a Swastika shouting "we'll tear Your hearts away!" to gain some sympathy....on the eve of the Holocaust Memorial Day....with a swastika...to gain sympathy.

I can't find words precise enough to describe how ridiculously self-defeating it looks, even suicidal.
I can't even imagine what it takes for our boys to keep the restraint while seeing all of this filth being presented so proudly open.

 

[Humanity]

people who are fishing respect the blockade

This is just Israel BS...

How many Gazan fishermen are smuggling weapon OUT of Gaza?

It's not a blockade of Gazan fishermen that is required it is an exclusion zone to stop boats coming IN.

However, an exclusion zone, in international waters, would be against international law so, it's just easier for Israel to break international law and blockade Gazan fishermen!

 

[rylah]

OUT of Gaza? I'm sure You meant INTO Gaza.

And appears to be not a lot, because the control doesn't allow to much trafficking from Egypt, however the attempt are frequent. The proffered way is tunnels and trafficking in Sinai.

Gazans were proposed a port with an airport and oil field. Israel wanted joint overseeing control of the security with Palestinians and other international members of states. They refused, Hamas that is, noone asked the people.

 

[Tilly]

You are right, it is not a valid argument now, however - it might not have come to this if Israel had made a good faith effort to work with them in the beginning. They didn't at all.

As easily argue that Hamas did not make a good faith effort to make peace with Israel. You are forgetting the REASON why Israel did not work with them from the beginning -- they refused peace; they refused to abide by existing agreements and they refused to recognize Israel. So on what grounds was there good faith which Israel could work with?

When they were elected into power - did Israel give them a chance?

Hamas has as a charter the destruction of Israel and made statements to that effect during the election, explain in detail why Israel should offer an olive branch to a group that PUBLICLY STATES it wants to destroy Israel?

Indeed. They were elected by the Pals on a terrorist manifesto that clearly stated their desire for the destruction of Israel.

 

[rylah]

You are right, it is not a valid argument now, however - it might not have come to this if Israel had made a good faith effort to work with them in the beginning. They didn't at all.

As easily argue that Hamas did not make a good faith effort to make peace with Israel. You are forgetting the REASON why Israel did not work with them from the beginning -- they refused peace; they refused to abide by existing agreements and they refused to recognize Israel. So on what grounds was there good faith which Israel could work with?

When they were elected into power - did Israel give them a chance?

Hamas has as a charter the destruction of Israel and made statements to that effect during the election, explain in detail why Israel should offer an olive branch to a group that PUBLICLY STATES it wants to destroy Israel?

Indeed. They were elected by the Pals on a terrorist manifesto that clearly stated their desire for the destruction of Israel.

No other plan or vision.
In one word suicidal.

 

[Coyote]

When they were elected into power - did Israel give them a chance?

They have been in power for more than a decade. They have had plenty of chances. They have a chance again tomorrow.

You can whine all you want that they didn't get their Shreddies one morning ten years ago and they were hungry. But when you keep putting the Shreddies in front of them day after day after day, its not your fault they are still hungry.

I am not whining. I am just pointing out that Israel never gave gave them a chance and you are ignoring that while justifying the blockade. The blockade was not just. It went up ahead of any offensive actions towards Israel, because Israel refused to accept the results of the election. It promptly ended any possibility for peace as effectively as any violence.

 

[Coyote]

RE: Israeli forces shoot unarmed protesters from across Gaza security fence, killing at least 15
※→ Coyote, et al,

BLUF: I don't know. But in all probably not.

It is more likely the case that the Arab Palestinians either staged the event for media exploitation; or actually killed one of their own (a sacrifice to the cause).

But Rocco, did this journalist have a drone at this demonstration?

(COMMENT)

The likelihood that a journalist with a drone, more professionally known as UAS (unmanned aerial systems), would be targeted by the Israelis is extremely low. UASs are notorious for being intercepted. Standing Orders for the Military. Border Guards and Police is to report the use. The local signals intelligence unit (SIGSEC) will just tune-in the signal and stream the video back to that sector. Whatever the journalist on the sees using the device, the sector command also sees simultaneously.

The IDF Intelligence Directorate (along with the other intelligence community members) does not interdict, destroy or otherwise neutralize lucrative → action oriented collection platforms → especially assets that provide real-time intelligence.

Most Respectfully,
R

I doubt the Palestinians killed him. Israel is not denying they shot him. Sometimes Rocco, Israel’s actions ARE wrong. They are no more the perpetual victim then the Pali’s, and sometimes the Palestinians are right. There is the frequent refrain that Israel is always evil...but you ignore the other refrain that Israel can do no wrong.

 

[Coyote]

Lllll

That is a bit of a problem. Israel HAS harrassed journalists...

Israel : Independent media constrained by military censorship | Reporters without borders
The Israeli media are free to be outspoken, which is rare in the Middle East. Nonetheless, despite the existence of independent media, journalists are subject to “military censorship.” The Israel Defense Forces often violate the rights of Palestinian journalists and journalists of other nations, especially when they are covering demonstrations. Under Israel’s system of administrative detention, Palestinian journalists can be held indefinitely without trial, without formal charge, and without notifying a lawyer. They are often accused of inciting violence, cooperating with terrorist organizations, or otherwise posing a threat to Israel’s security

Just like Germany in the early '30's.

errrr not really Billo....

 

[Coyote]

I don't agree. Hamas has done little for the Palestinians. Hamas is for Hamas. They won an election because they Fatah's corruption became unbearable. Hamas has not shown itself to be any better.

What have they done to improve the lot of the Palestinians? Have they invested in economies? Infrastructure? Schools? Peace partnerships with anyone?

As a matter of fact, they have. The problem is, Hamas completes street improvements on a Gaza street by putting up street lights and the IDF comes along later and shoots out the lamps at the top.

What has Hamas invested into the Gaza economy? Besides tunnels and rockets?

 

[Hollie]

Tell me when You find a brain in there,

or try Your luck walking towards Israeli border shouting "tear Your hearts away!",
Palestinians can provide a Swastika for better effect.

Good luck smart guy.

Israel's use of force are war crimes and its leaders should be prosecuted in the ICC.

Israel's response to acts of war from islamic terrorists are hardly war crimes.

 

[rylah]

RE: Israeli forces shoot unarmed protesters from across Gaza security fence, killing at least 15
※→ Coyote, et al,

BLUF: I don't know. But in all probably not.

It is more likely the case that the Arab Palestinians either staged the event for media exploitation; or actually killed one of their own (a sacrifice to the cause).

But Rocco, did this journalist have a drone at this demonstration?

(COMMENT)

The likelihood that a journalist with a drone, more professionally known as UAS (unmanned aerial systems), would be targeted by the Israelis is extremely low. UASs are notorious for being intercepted. Standing Orders for the Military. Border Guards and Police is to report the use. The local signals intelligence unit (SIGSEC) will just tune-in the signal and stream the video back to that sector. Whatever the journalist on the sees using the device, the sector command also sees simultaneously.

The IDF Intelligence Directorate (along with the other intelligence community members) does not interdict, destroy or otherwise neutralize lucrative → action oriented collection platforms → especially assets that provide real-time intelligence.

Most Respectfully,
R

I doubt the Palestinians killed him. Israel is not denying they shot him. Sometimes Rocco, Israel’s actions ARE wrong. They are no more the perpetual victim then the Pali’s, and sometimes the Palestinians are right. There is the frequent refrain that Israel is always evil...but you ignore the other refrain that Israel can do no wrong.

Israel is not denying anything, we don't know it's being investigated.
The fact is all the info we have is a footage of a man being treated after the incident, and the response of the defense minister, who actually himself said it's not clear.

This is at least strange in light of thousands of cameras on the ground.
Then again if they weren't burning tires but planting flowers into a picture of their flag, and a soldier shot them - their complaints would have more weight.

Let's be clear - even those who supposedly came only to "protest and dance", have eyes and know full well that the smoke is to allow better covering for militant activity among them, and that their protest is being used for Hamas/Islamic Jihad provocations.