Israel and Palestine - which side would you support?

[Zebra]

which side are you on?

i think that this could be a difficult question for some

 

[White 6]

which side are you on?

i think that this is a difficult question ...

Not that difficult. Definitely Israel.

 

[Zebra]

Not that difficult. Definitely Israel.

I agree

 

[Zebra]

Not that difficult.

I have now edited my sentence slightly

 

[Rocko]

Usually the people that say they’re neutral are for the Palestinians

 

[Oddball]

Neither.

 

[Oddball]

Usually the people that say they’re neutral are for the Palestinians

Or we're in favor of allowing violent people to annihilate one another.

 

[Zebra]

now ....

3 for Israel
0 for the other options

 

[shockedcanadian]

Support both to live in peace. As an ally, obviously Israel is the clear choice and they believe in values more similar to most of us in the West.

Ultimately, people just want to live their lives. Hamas is the problem, not the average citizen. It similar to the S.I.C in Canada. They manipulate, control and ultimately destroy their communities.

Get rid of those who indoctrinate and spread hate and you will have peace and prosperity among people.

 

[Zebra]

Neither.

View attachment 1123103

then you can vote for neutral

 

[Rigby5]

Not that difficult. Definitely Israel.

Wrong.
While I have sometimes seen you try to use logic to be impartial as you can be, with this one you obviously have not done your reading.

I am Jewish so I know the real history.
In 160 AD, after being defeated twice by the Romans, by the Seleucids, the Greeks, the Persians, the Babylonians, the Assyrians, etc., the Rabbinical Counsel decided maybe we were wrong?
They had 3 choices.
1. There is no God.
2. They were not the Chosen.
3. They had sinned and were being punished.
So they picked door number 3.
Which to me obviously is wrong, because they actually were almost always defeated, and only once won, when they massacred the Canaanites.
But the point is the Rabbinical Counsel made the Diaspora Decree of 160 AD, which said that all Jews were supposed to leave the Mideast, do help other struggling societies, and repent and atone for the sins of arrogance and pride.

So that means when the British did their census of Palestine in 1922, there were fewer than 30k Jews in all of Palestine.
So where did the 6 million Israelis come from?
They are almost all illegal immigrants after 1940, from places like Poland and Russia.
But the Palestinians had invited them in since they needed European investment.

There was no problem until 1946.
That is when Menachim Begin dropped his cover, and blew up the British peacekeepers in the King David Hotel.
He did that so no one could then stop his gangs, Irgun, Stern, and Lehi, from massacring hundreds of native villages like Deir Yassin.
Its well documented because Albert Einstein had been invited to Jerusalem to consider the presidency, and he witnessed the surviving women and children from Deir Yassin, being executed.
He wrote letters to the NY Times.
Its all in their archives.

Coming up to the present, Israel illegally invaded and took over 90% of Palestine for its 6 million illegal immigrants, leaving the 13 million natives to struggle to survive on 10% of the land they legally own.
And are subjected to an illegal starvation blockade.

There is no excuse for Israel to exist.
Obviously they not only are NOT the "Chosen People", but anyone who could even think there could be a Chosen People would be insanely narcissistic.
And clearly the original Hebrew were Arabs, and the current Israelis are not.
Like Netanyahu obviously is a Turkic Pole from Warsaw.

If you want to understand more, then go back to WWI and read about how David ben Gurion and Chaim Weizmann stole secrets from Berlin, like how to make synthetic acetone for cordite, and the Zimmerman Letter, in trade for the Balfour Declaration of a Jewish homeland, to cause the defeat of Germany in WWI, even though they actually did not start the war and were innocent victims.

If you have trouble believing Germany was not guilty in WWI, go back and read about the Franco-Prussian war of 1870, where the French started that war, lost, and Germany took nothing almost nothing from them. So obviously the Germans were the good guys.

 

[Rigby5]

Support both to live in peace. As an ally, obviously Israel is the clear choice and they believe in values more similar to most of us in the West.

Ultimately, people just want to live their lives. Hamas is the problem, not the average citizen. It similar to the S.I.C in Canada. They manipulate, control and ultimately destroy their communities.

Get rid of those who indoctrinate and spread hate and you will have peace and prosperity among people.

Nonsense.
I have watched video of a screaming Arab mother with an injured infant, being denied treatment at the closest hospital, since it was "for Jews only".
Israel shares NOTHING of the kind of values of the West, and only is similar to the West in appearance.
No one in the West would ever be so arrogant as to believe they were the "Chosen People" and therefore justified in taking whatever they decide to claim is their "Promised Land".

Israel is not and never has been an "ally", and instead has caused huge debts that threaten the US bankruptcy, as well as causing the US to be attacked, like the WTC.

Blaming Hamas is WRONG!
You would do the same as Hamas if 90% of your homes had been illegally confiscated and subject to decades of an illegal starvation blockade.

All the things Zionists have done are so reprehensible as to never be possible to overcome.
Like Menachim Begin blowing up the British peacekeepers in the King David Hotel, so that no one could stop his gangs from massacring hundreds of native villages like Deir Yassin.

 

[Rigby5]

Being Jewish, I know what being Jewish requires, and I know that no Jew can be a Zionist.
Zionists are ethnic Polish and Russian, from Turkic people who claimed to have converted to Judaism around 800 AD.
Zionism is not just arrogant and believe in stealing the homes of others, but desecrating two thousand years of atonement by real Jews.

 

[White 6]

Wrong.
While I have sometimes seen you try to use logic to be impartial as you can be, with this one you obviously have not done your reading.

I am Jewish so I know the real history.
In 160 AD, after being defeated twice by the Romans, by the Seleucids, the Greeks, the Persians, the Babylonians, the Assyrians, etc., the Rabbinical Counsel decided maybe we were wrong?
They had 3 choices.
1. There is no God.
2. They were not the Chosen.
3. They had sinned and were being punished.
So they picked door number 3.
Which to me obviously is wrong, because they actually were almost always defeated, and only once won, when they massacred the Canaanites.
But the point is the Rabbinical Counsel made the Diaspora Decree of 160 AD, which said that all Jews were supposed to leave the Mideast, do help other struggling societies, and repent and atone for the sins of arrogance and pride.

So that means when the British did their census of Palestine in 1922, there were fewer than 30k Jews in all of Palestine.
So where did the 6 million Israelis come from?
They are almost all illegal immigrants after 1940, from places like Poland and Russia.
But the Palestinians had invited them in since they needed European investment.

There was no problem until 1946.
That is when Menachim Begin dropped his cover, and blew up the British peacekeepers in the King David Hotel.
He did that so no one could then stop his gangs, Irgun, Stern, and Lehi, from massacring hundreds of native villages like Deir Yassin.
Its well documented because Albert Einstein had been invited to Jerusalem to consider the presidency, and he witnessed the surviving women and children from Deir Yassin, being executed.
He wrote letters to the NY Times.
Its all in their archives.

Coming up to the present, Israel illegally invaded and took over 90% of Palestine for its 6 million illegal immigrants, leaving the 13 million natives to struggle to survive on 10% of the land they legally own.
And are subjected to an illegal starvation blockade.

There is no excuse for Israel to exist.
Obviously they not only are NOT the "Chosen People", but anyone who could even think there could be a Chosen People would be insanely narcissistic.
And clearly the original Hebrew were Arabs, and the current Israelis are not.
Like Netanyahu obviously is a Turkic Pole from Warsaw.

If you want to understand more, then go back to WWI and read about how David ben Gurion and Chaim Weizmann stole secrets from Berlin, like how to make synthetic acetone for cordite, and the Zimmerman Letter, in trade for the Balfour Declaration of a Jewish homeland, to cause the defeat of Germany in WWI, even though they actually did not start the war and were innocent victims.

If you have trouble believing Germany was not guilty in WWI, go back and read about the Franco-Prussian war of 1870, where the French started that war, lost, and Germany took nothing almost nothing from them. So obviously the Germans were the good guys.

I am not impartial on this one. I am supporting international law in place since before I was born (I am over 70), after a war, my father fought in, and personally having talked with former soldiers, that fought under Patton. Fk everybody that thinks Israel shouldn't exist. The people that won that war, and officially created Israel, really were the greatest generation, and I support what they created. End of story for me. No impartiality, no further consideration, required. And, I don't give a damn about Palestine, especially after their craven sneak attack in the middle of the night, and their pitiful whining on what they brought on themselves since. I support Israel.

 

[shockedcanadian]

Wrong.
While I have sometimes seen you try to use logic to be impartial as you can be, with this one you obviously have not done your reading.

I am Jewish so I know the real history.
In 160 AD, after being defeated twice by the Romans, by the Seleucids, the Greeks, the Persians, the Babylonians, the Assyrians, etc., the Rabbinical Counsel decided maybe we were wrong?
They had 3 choices.
1. There is no God.
2. They were not the Chosen.
3. They had sinned and were being punished.
So they picked door number 3.
Which to me obviously is wrong, because they actually were almost always defeated, and only once won, when they massacred the Canaanites.
But the point is the Rabbinical Counsel made the Diaspora Decree of 160 AD, which said that all Jews were supposed to leave the Mideast, do help other struggling societies, and repent and atone for the sins of arrogance and pride.

So that means when the British did their census of Palestine in 1922, there were fewer than 30k Jews in all of Palestine.
So where did the 6 million Israelis come from?
They are almost all illegal immigrants after 1940, from places like Poland and Russia.
But the Palestinians had invited them in since they needed European investment.

There was no problem until 1946.
That is when Menachim Begin dropped his cover, and blew up the British peacekeepers in the King David Hotel.
He did that so no one could then stop his gangs, Irgun, Stern, and Lehi, from massacring hundreds of native villages like Deir Yassin.
Its well documented because Albert Einstein had been invited to Jerusalem to consider the presidency, and he witnessed the surviving women and children from Deir Yassin, being executed.
He wrote letters to the NY Times.
Its all in their archives.

Coming up to the present, Israel illegally invaded and took over 90% of Palestine for its 6 million illegal immigrants, leaving the 13 million natives to struggle to survive on 10% of the land they legally own.
And are subjected to an illegal starvation blockade.

There is no excuse for Israel to exist.
Obviously they not only are NOT the "Chosen People", but anyone who could even think there could be a Chosen People would be insanely narcissistic.
And clearly the original Hebrew were Arabs, and the current Israelis are not.
Like Netanyahu obviously is a Turkic Pole from Warsaw.

If you want to understand more, then go back to WWI and read about how David ben Gurion and Chaim Weizmann stole secrets from Berlin, like how to make synthetic acetone for cordite, and the Zimmerman Letter, in trade for the Balfour Declaration of a Jewish homeland, to cause the defeat of Germany in WWI, even though they actually did not start the war and were innocent victims.

If you have trouble believing Germany was not guilty in WWI, go back and read about the Franco-Prussian war of 1870, where the French started that war, lost, and Germany took nothing almost nothing from them. So obviously the Germans were the good guys.

Just because you are Jewish doesn't mean you "know the real history"?

I have the Talmud in front of me and I've read through it completely once, sometimes I read sections from time to time but I prefer audio learning lately so I just refresh key quotes and ideals.

My assertion is that if I spoke to the average person of Jewish heritage they wouldn't know much about what's in the Talmud. THAT is Jewish history as viewed through understanding the Torah during periods of time when oral history was more common than written history. From the Mishnah to Rashis commentary etc.

As for the "Chosen One" theory. I believe we are all chosen, it just depends what that path is that G-d chose for us. Every religion has some aspect of "this is why I am good/ better/different than you as I follow the REAL faith". This isn't unique to Judaism I assure you.

The more recent history is well documented and free for all to study regardless of faith or lineage so you can be sure there are many non-Jews who understand their history as they have researched it in-depth. Just as there are many Canadians who know the history of my country better than I do.

The British in particular, being scholarly and lovers of history understand the creation of Israel as a Jewish state more than most since they essentially approved the return and there are some great historical readings about this period, the good, the bad and the ugly.

The increase of secularism in Israel is particularly interesting in my opinion as it defies the initial demands of Israels return, especially since David Ben-Gurion demanded the core of tenets of Judaism to be an aspect of the state. That is an aside but I believe it is important going forward for Israel, their values and beliefs. Just as we in the West seem to lose what helped formulate our great and FREE societies.

It's perhaps not unexpected with the rise of technology and science so prevalent in our lives that people think less about religion. It's similar to Christianity in much of the West, we know the Holidays, we might even know the history of the Holidays, but we don't pick up the bible much here, worse, we don't LIVE by the Judeo-Christian values which shaped our nations.

The push of Israel to be returned to the Jews was promoted exponentially more after the Holocaust and it was not just supported more with financial and legal sacrifices, but there was a powerful emotional need after the horrors of WWII were exposed. 60M Dead later, including 6M Jews.

Yes, there was a great deal of violence and injustice in the return of Israel, Churchill even turned his back in anger at times. It is history though and I try to understand the culmination of anger at how Jews suffered during WWII which lead to this return to Israel. However, it was voted on and decided by the U.N in 1948. That is the critical aspect of history which was decided during a turbulent period in humanity.

Now, nearly 80 years later, shouldn't Palestine have adapted and evolved into a functioning country? Go and look at the full list of countries that are less than 100 years old and you might be surprised, including those who left the former Eastern Bloc and/or became independent from their former colonial rule (both the decline of Russia and British Empires).


Taiwan, Singapore, Guyana, Croatia, Macedonia, just off the top of my head there are MANY more. All became functioning societies, for better or worse, often imperfect, they progressed.

Could anyone from that period have imagined the lack of progress for nearly a century?

There are Muslims in Israeli parliament. Where is the progress of Palestine? How come the Egyptians and others haven't been held to account for NOT helping them and/or absorbing them into the fold when it would have been beneficial?

There are too many people who have motives designed to keep Palestine from progressing. Many nations in the region do not want Israel there and they use Palestine for their ambitions, treat it as a buffer, a means to get international money and resources (used to buy weapons and build tunnels? Wow).

Arab nations in the region are finally understanding that it's time to move on and build relations. I do believe there should be two nations there, it is only a matter of time before this occurs so why not address it sooner than later? That's how I view it. I understand the resistance and alternatives should be discussed and assessed, but ultimately, which options makes most sense?

Regardless, Israel will remain an independent nation. It's been decided and we should all focus on moving forward. Any "real" history had better take into account all that was in consideration during that period. As for the problems between Israel and Palestine, I believe it would be wise for everyone to find some common ground, it's been too long already.

 

[shockedcanadian]

Nonsense.
I have watched video of a screaming Arab mother with an injured infant, being denied treatment at the closest hospital, since it was "for Jews only".
Israel shares NOTHING of the kind of values of the West, and only is similar to the West in appearance.
No one in the West would ever be so arrogant as to believe they were the "Chosen People" and therefore justified in taking whatever they decide to claim is their "Promised Land".

Israel is not and never has been an "ally", and instead has caused huge debts that threaten the US bankruptcy, as well as causing the US to be attacked, like the WTC.

Blaming Hamas is WRONG!
You would do the same as Hamas if 90% of your homes had been illegally confiscated and subject to decades of an illegal starvation blockade.

All the things Zionists have done are so reprehensible as to never be possible to overcome.
Like Menachim Begin blowing up the British peacekeepers in the King David Hotel, so that no one could stop his gangs from massacring hundreds of native villages like Deir Yassin.

There are extremists on all sides, in all ideology. I don't care for most of them.

One of the beauties of Judaism is its evolution. Maybe the only religion that self regulates itself in distinguishing certain beliefs. Take capital punishment for example. Jews, like Catholics and most Christians don't support capital punishment even though the Torah calls for it in so many instances. Those ancestors in the past used creative ways to avoid these punishments, essentially using "constructive denials".

It is one example of many. You can read different scripture and have to conflicting ideals. Choosing the one most "humane" is the better option in my opinion.

Those who repeatedly chose the most fierce option generally become most extreme. Found everywhere in all religions and ideology.

 

[Shusha]

But the point is the Rabbinical Counsel made the Diaspora Decree of 160 AD, which said that all Jews were supposed to leave the Mideast, do help other struggling societies, and repent and atone for the sins of arrogance and pride.

You are welcome to your religious beliefs, but your religious beliefs are irrelevant with respect to the State of Israel.

There is no excuse for Israel to exist.

The State of Israel DOES, in point of fact, exist. It needs no reason, no excuse, no justification. It is.

This whole "right to exist" is nonsense, and nonsense which is applied to no other state. Discussion of "right to exist" is simply taking the long way around to the real intent, which is a call to destroy a State and to deny a specific indigenous ethnic and national group the right to self-determination. Both unlawful and immoral.

 

[Shusha]

Blaming Hamas is WRONG!
You would do the same as Hamas ...

May I request a clarification here? You, a religious Jew (according to your own testimony), would perpetrate acts such as: abduct, strangle to death, and mutilate the bodies of infants; decapitate civilians with garden implements; commit rapes using your own body or foreign objects and then stab or shoot the victim to death during said act; keep abducted civilians chained and/or in cages and deny necessities such as water and food; force captives to commit sexual acts with you; desecrate the dead; set a house on fire with people inside with the intent to burn them alive? (And so many more examples I could give.)

 

[The Irish Ram]

Support both to live in peace. As an ally, obviously Israel is the clear choice and they believe in values more similar to most of us in the West.

Ultimately, people just want to live their lives. Hamas is the problem, not the average citizen. It similar to the S.I.C in Canada. They manipulate, control and ultimately destroy their communities.

Get rid of those who indoctrinate and spread hate and you will have peace and prosperity among people.

As long as there are Muslims in Gaza, there will be no peace. And the average citizen is as rabid about killing Jews as Hamas. The children there, from Kindergarten to adulthood, are trained to kill Jews. This is going to take Jesus Christ returning to stop this mess.

 

[The Irish Ram]