Israel and it's Absentee Property Laws

[Coyote]

This has long been a sore point for Palestinians and Israeli's.

The original law was an emergency measure, that was subsequently replaced by more sophisticated laws. A brief history of those laws, from Wikipedia: Israeli land and property laws - Wikipedia

‘Absentees’ property’ laws were several laws which were first introduced as emergency ordinances issued by the Jewish leadership but which after the war were incorporated into the laws of Israel. As examples of the first type of laws are the Emergency Regulations (Absentees’ Property) Law, 5709-1948 (December) which according to article 37 of the Absentees Property Law, 5710-1950 was replaced by the latter;[25] the Emergency Regulations (Requisition of Property) Law, 5709-1949, and other related laws.[26]

According to COHRE and BADIL (p. 41), unlike other laws that were designed to establish Israel’s legal control over lands, this body of law focused on formulating a legal definition for the people (mostly Arabs) who had left or been forced to flee from these lands.​

....As a result, two million dunams were confiscated and given to the custodian, who later transferred the land to the development authority. This law created the novel citizenship category of "present absentees" (nifkadim nohahim), persons present at the time but considered absent for the purpose of the law. These Israeli Arabs enjoyed all civil rights-including the right to vote in the Knesset elections-except one: the right to use and dispose of their property. About 30,000-35,000 Palestinians became "present absentees".[27]​

Wikipedia also notes:

The absentee property played an enormous role in making Israel a viable state. In 1954, more than one third of Israel's Jewish population lived on absentee property and nearly a third of the new immigrants (250,000 people) settled in urban areas abandoned by Arabs. Of 370 new Jewish settlements established between 1948 and 1953, 350 were on absentee property (Peretz, Israel and the Palestinian Arabs, 1958).​

And it notes this about the one of the laws that replaced the emergency law:

The Absentees’ Property Law, 5710- 1950
This law replaced the Emergency Regulations (Absentees’ Property) Law, 5709-1948. According to Sabri Jiryis (p. 84),[32] the definition of "absentee" in the law was framed in such a way as to ensure that it applied to every Palestinian or resident in Palestine who had left his usual place of residence in Palestine for any place inside or outside the country after the adoption of the partition of Palestine resolution by the UN. Article 1(b) states that "absentee" means...

...According to COHRE and BADIL (p. 41), the provisions in the law made sure that the term 'person' did not apply to Jews. The law also applied to Arabs who had become citizens of the State of Israel but were not in their usual place of residence as defined by the law. In this case, they were referred to as 'present absentees' and many lost their lands.​

It is very hard to make a claim that these laws were not for the purpose of trying to confiscate land from Palestinians, and give that land to Jewish residents, and to prevent them from being able to reclaim them, and that they were applied differently to Jews and to Arabs, that Jews could more easily reclaim their properties then Arabs.

Lest you think this is just old history, these laws are still in effect, and still in contention in the courts, this is from 2013.

Israel's Absentee Property Law exposes an absence of morality in Jerusalem

Few but the most liberal of Israelis take note of this irony – Arab house equals charm and character – and are willing to acknowledge the fuzzy moral territory of the Jerusalem we now find ourselves in today.


But 1948 is so long ago and peace so far away, and so we don’t like to think too hard about how these lovely “vintage” homes got here. Tuesday, on the other hand, that’s not so long ago at all. On Tuesday, Attorney General Yehuda Weinstein said in a legal opinion that a 63-year-old law allowing Israel to confiscate "absentee" properties may continue to be applied to Palestinian-owned homes in Jerusalem.

....“If the Israeli high court, which is hearing a case involving the issue, will rule in favor of recognizing the absentee law, the consequences to Palestinians and their East Jerusalem properties will be enormous. The Israeli custodian of absentee properties has routinely turned over properties under its control to settler and settler-related projects,” Kuttab writes. He also crystallizes why the law is so morally flawed. An Israeli who moves to a West Bank settlement will never be told that he has forfeited the apartment he owns in Jerusalem.


“The irony of the Israeli discussion about absentee properties in Jerusalem is [that it is] applicable only to Palestinian Arabs,” he adds. “There is no similar application of this law to Israeli settlers living in the West Bank and owning properties in Jerusalem or Israel.”


As Haaretz reported, this isn’t simply about leaving on the books a law that passed in 1950, when the Jewish state’ survival seemed less secure and Israelis feared droves of Palestinian refugees returning to claim the homes they left behind. Today, this is about Palestinians who live in the West Bank – and sometimes, meters from their property in Jerusalem – and had their homes confiscated because they’re now “absentees,” ie. no longer Jerusalem residents. In other words, we’re not talking about the homes of Palestinians who are already spending a second or even third generation in Jordan or Lebanon or somewhere much further afield – we’re talking about people who still live in the vicinity, under Israeli rule, but now find themselves on the wrong side of the line for maintaining their property.

“If the Israeli high court, which is hearing a case involving the issue, will rule in favor of recognizing the absentee law, the consequences to Palestinians and their East Jerusalem properties will be enormous. The Israeli custodian of absentee properties has routinely turned over properties under its control to settler and settler-related projects,” Kuttab writes. He also crystallizes why the law is so morally flawed. An Israeli who moves to a West Bank settlement will never be told that he has forfeited the apartment he owns in Jerusalem.


“The irony of the Israeli discussion about absentee properties in Jerusalem is [that it is] applicable only to Palestinian Arabs,” he adds. “There is no similar application of this law to Israeli settlers living in the West Bank and owning properties in Jerusalem or Israel.” ​

I think it's important to note for the purpose of this article - that Israel has been busy moving and adjusting the "boundaries" of Jerusalem in order to optimize Jewish demographics, which means if a Palestinian landowner is on the wrong side of the line suddenly, he loses whatever property he had on the other side.

And the High Court's Ruling? Supreme Court rules: Israel can confiscate Palestinian property in Jerusalem

 

[bgrouse]

It's a jewish country ran by jews for jews and to hell with everyone else. The international community allows it. It didn't allow Hitler to run a country for ethnic Germans.

 

[Sixties Fan]

It's a jewish country ran by jews for jews and to hell with everyone else. The international community allows it. It didn't allow Hitler to run a country for ethnic Germans.

That is not what the thread is about, but let me clarify your information.

There are about 8 Million people in Israel. About 2 Million is non Jewish.

Therefore, Yes, it is a Jewish country run by mostly Jews, where all non Jews have the same rights. You understand it or not.

I will not bother with your Germany analogy.

 

[bgrouse]

It's a jewish country ran by jews for jews and to hell with everyone else. The international community allows it. It didn't allow Hitler to run a country for ethnic Germans.

That is not what the thread is about, but let me clarify your information.

There are about 8 Million people in Israel. About 2 Million is non Jewish.

Therefore, Yes, it is a Jewish country run by mostly Jews, where all non Jews have the same rights. You understand it or not.

I will not bother with your Germany analogy.

Do they allow interfaith marriage within its borders?

 

[Sixties Fan]

It's a jewish country ran by jews for jews and to hell with everyone else. The international community allows it. It didn't allow Hitler to run a country for ethnic Germans.

That is not what the thread is about, but let me clarify your information.

There are about 8 Million people in Israel. About 2 Million is non Jewish.

Therefore, Yes, it is a Jewish country run by mostly Jews, where all non Jews have the same rights. You understand it or not.

I will not bother with your Germany analogy.

Do they allow interfaith marriage within its borders?

You are intent on being off topic. Have a nice day.

 

[bgrouse]

It's a jewish country ran by jews for jews and to hell with everyone else. The international community allows it. It didn't allow Hitler to run a country for ethnic Germans.

That is not what the thread is about, but let me clarify your information.

There are about 8 Million people in Israel. About 2 Million is non Jewish.

Therefore, Yes, it is a Jewish country run by mostly Jews, where all non Jews have the same rights. You understand it or not.

I will not bother with your Germany analogy.

Do they allow interfaith marriage within its borders?

You are intent on being off topic. Have a nice day.

You were talking about same rights. I'm talking about the same thing. Obviously you don't want to discuss anything that exposes your position. Not sure why you even bothered to get an account at a political discussion board.

 

[Shusha]

The purpose of the absentee property laws was to prevent the return of hostile Arabs into Israel. That is still a problem.

 

[Shusha]

You were talking about same rights. I'm talking about the same thing. Obviously you don't want to discuss anything that exposes your position. Not sure why you even bothered to get an account at a political discussion board.

All Israeli citizens have the same rights. By law. Interfaith marriage is permitted, and treated the same as any other marriage. By law.

The topic of this discussion is the absentee property laws and the history, and carried over from the other thread, the context within which these laws exist. And ALSO the laws in Arab countries with respect to Jews and the context within which those exist.

For example, Iraqi law removed nationality from all Jews. Iraq also removed the right of Jews to hold property in Iraq and removed the ownership of that property from them.

The purpose of the laws in Israel was to ensure the literal physical survival of Jews, as well as the survival of their culture, traditions, heritage and religion. The purpose of the laws in Arab countries was to collectively punish Jews.

 

[bgrouse]

You were talking about same rights. I'm talking about the same thing. Obviously you don't want to discuss anything that exposes your position. Not sure why you even bothered to get an account at a political discussion board.

All Israeli citizens have the same rights. By law. Interfaith marriage is permitted,

Did it change since 2014?

Israeli law does not permit marriages between members of different religions within its borders

Why interfaith marriage is on the rise in Israel - and why it's a problem

and treated the same as any other marriage. By law.

The topic of this discussion is the absentee property laws and the history, and carried over from the other thread, the context within which these laws exist. And ALSO the laws in Arab countries with respect to Jews and the context within which those exist.

For example, Iraqi law removed nationality from all Jews. Iraq also removed the right of Jews to hold property in Iraq and removed the ownership of that property from them.

Arab countries are run by arabs for arabs. Jew country is run by jews for jews. I never denied this.

 

[Sixties Fan]

This has long been a sore point for Palestinians and Israeli's.

The original law was an emergency measure, that was subsequently replaced by more sophisticated laws. A brief history of those laws, from Wikipedia: Israeli land and property laws - Wikipedia

‘Absentees’ property’ laws were several laws which were first introduced as emergency ordinances issued by the Jewish leadership but which after the war were incorporated into the laws of Israel. As examples of the first type of laws are the Emergency Regulations (Absentees’ Property) Law, 5709-1948 (December) which according to article 37 of the Absentees Property Law, 5710-1950 was replaced by the latter;[25] the Emergency Regulations (Requisition of Property) Law, 5709-1949, and other related laws.[26]

According to COHRE and BADIL (p. 41), unlike other laws that were designed to establish Israel’s legal control over lands, this body of law focused on formulating a legal definition for the people (mostly Arabs) who had left or been forced to flee from these lands.​

....As a result, two million dunams were confiscated and given to the custodian, who later transferred the land to the development authority. This law created the novel citizenship category of "present absentees" (nifkadim nohahim), persons present at the time but considered absent for the purpose of the law. These Israeli Arabs enjoyed all civil rights-including the right to vote in the Knesset elections-except one: the right to use and dispose of their property. About 30,000-35,000 Palestinians became "present absentees".[27]​

Wikipedia also notes:

The absentee property played an enormous role in making Israel a viable state. In 1954, more than one third of Israel's Jewish population lived on absentee property and nearly a third of the new immigrants (250,000 people) settled in urban areas abandoned by Arabs. Of 370 new Jewish settlements established between 1948 and 1953, 350 were on absentee property (Peretz, Israel and the Palestinian Arabs, 1958).​

And it notes this about the one of the laws that replaced the emergency law:

The Absentees’ Property Law, 5710- 1950
This law replaced the Emergency Regulations (Absentees’ Property) Law, 5709-1948. According to Sabri Jiryis (p. 84),[32] the definition of "absentee" in the law was framed in such a way as to ensure that it applied to every Palestinian or resident in Palestine who had left his usual place of residence in Palestine for any place inside or outside the country after the adoption of the partition of Palestine resolution by the UN. Article 1(b) states that "absentee" means...

...According to COHRE and BADIL (p. 41), the provisions in the law made sure that the term 'person' did not apply to Jews. The law also applied to Arabs who had become citizens of the State of Israel but were not in their usual place of residence as defined by the law. In this case, they were referred to as 'present absentees' and many lost their lands.​

It is very hard to make a claim that these laws were not for the purpose of trying to confiscate land from Palestinians, and give that land to Jewish residents, and to prevent them from being able to reclaim them, and that they were applied differently to Jews and to Arabs, that Jews could more easily reclaim their properties then Arabs.

Lest you think this is just old history, these laws are still in effect, and still in contention in the courts, this is from 2013.

Israel's Absentee Property Law exposes an absence of morality in Jerusalem

Few but the most liberal of Israelis take note of this irony – Arab house equals charm and character – and are willing to acknowledge the fuzzy moral territory of the Jerusalem we now find ourselves in today.


But 1948 is so long ago and peace so far away, and so we don’t like to think too hard about how these lovely “vintage” homes got here. Tuesday, on the other hand, that’s not so long ago at all. On Tuesday, Attorney General Yehuda Weinstein said in a legal opinion that a 63-year-old law allowing Israel to confiscate "absentee" properties may continue to be applied to Palestinian-owned homes in Jerusalem.

....“If the Israeli high court, which is hearing a case involving the issue, will rule in favor of recognizing the absentee law, the consequences to Palestinians and their East Jerusalem properties will be enormous. The Israeli custodian of absentee properties has routinely turned over properties under its control to settler and settler-related projects,” Kuttab writes. He also crystallizes why the law is so morally flawed. An Israeli who moves to a West Bank settlement will never be told that he has forfeited the apartment he owns in Jerusalem.


“The irony of the Israeli discussion about absentee properties in Jerusalem is [that it is] applicable only to Palestinian Arabs,” he adds. “There is no similar application of this law to Israeli settlers living in the West Bank and owning properties in Jerusalem or Israel.”


As Haaretz reported, this isn’t simply about leaving on the books a law that passed in 1950, when the Jewish state’ survival seemed less secure and Israelis feared droves of Palestinian refugees returning to claim the homes they left behind. Today, this is about Palestinians who live in the West Bank – and sometimes, meters from their property in Jerusalem – and had their homes confiscated because they’re now “absentees,” ie. no longer Jerusalem residents. In other words, we’re not talking about the homes of Palestinians who are already spending a second or even third generation in Jordan or Lebanon or somewhere much further afield – we’re talking about people who still live in the vicinity, under Israeli rule, but now find themselves on the wrong side of the line for maintaining their property.

“If the Israeli high court, which is hearing a case involving the issue, will rule in favor of recognizing the absentee law, the consequences to Palestinians and their East Jerusalem properties will be enormous. The Israeli custodian of absentee properties has routinely turned over properties under its control to settler and settler-related projects,” Kuttab writes. He also crystallizes why the law is so morally flawed. An Israeli who moves to a West Bank settlement will never be told that he has forfeited the apartment he owns in Jerusalem.


“The irony of the Israeli discussion about absentee properties in Jerusalem is [that it is] applicable only to Palestinian Arabs,” he adds. “There is no similar application of this law to Israeli settlers living in the West Bank and owning properties in Jerusalem or Israel.” ​

I think it's important to note for the purpose of this article - that Israel has been busy moving and adjusting the "boundaries" of Jerusalem in order to optimize Jewish demographics, which means if a Palestinian landowner is on the wrong side of the line suddenly, he loses whatever property he had on the other side.

And the High Court's Ruling? Supreme Court rules: Israel can confiscate Palestinian property in Jerusalem

I know that we are discussing the Absentee laws in Israel, here.
But I must wonder what is to be done with all the land and homes, etc eventually confiscated by the Arab Palestinians and Jordanians, from 1920 to 1948 in Gaza, TransJordan and in Samaria, Judea and The Jewish Quarter of East Jerusalem?

The issue started in 1920. It went on in 1925, 1929 and then more seriously in 1948.

ALL Jews were expelled from Gaza, TransJordan, Hebron, Judea, Samaria and the Jewish Quarter of Jerusalem ( "East Jerusalem")

Have there been any absentee laws in Gaza (via the British or Egypt) , TransJordan (The British or the Hashemite Kingdom) , Hebron ( The British or the Arab League), or Judea, Samaria and the Jewish Quarter (The British and the Hashemite Kingdom) between 1920 and 1967 where the Jews who were expelled could go to a court and appeal to have their property returned?

Do any laws exist in Jordan, or via the Arab League which would allow Jews and others to appeal to have their properties returned?

 

[Shusha]

You were talking about same rights. I'm talking about the same thing. Obviously you don't want to discuss anything that exposes your position. Not sure why you even bothered to get an account at a political discussion board.

All Israeli citizens have the same rights. By law. Interfaith marriage is permitted,

Did it change since 2014?

Israeli law does not permit marriages between members of different religions within its borders

Why interfaith marriage is on the rise in Israel - and why it's a problem

and treated the same as any other marriage. By law.

The topic of this discussion is the absentee property laws and the history, and carried over from the other thread, the context within which these laws exist. And ALSO the laws in Arab countries with respect to Jews and the context within which those exist.

For example, Iraqi law removed nationality from all Jews. Iraq also removed the right of Jews to hold property in Iraq and removed the ownership of that property from them.

Arab countries are run by arabs for arabs. Jew country is run by jews for jews. I never denied this.

If you want to discuss civil marriage in Israel -- start a thread on it.

 

[Shusha]

I know that we are discussing the Absentee laws in Israel, here.

As per the other thread, we are discussing laws which came into existence in various countries due to the Arab/Israel conflict. To do otherwise sets up an anti-Israel bias from the get-go.

 

[bgrouse]

You were talking about same rights. I'm talking about the same thing. Obviously you don't want to discuss anything that exposes your position. Not sure why you even bothered to get an account at a political discussion board.

All Israeli citizens have the same rights. By law. Interfaith marriage is permitted,

Did it change since 2014?

Israeli law does not permit marriages between members of different religions within its borders

Why interfaith marriage is on the rise in Israel - and why it's a problem

and treated the same as any other marriage. By law.

The topic of this discussion is the absentee property laws and the history, and carried over from the other thread, the context within which these laws exist. And ALSO the laws in Arab countries with respect to Jews and the context within which those exist.

For example, Iraqi law removed nationality from all Jews. Iraq also removed the right of Jews to hold property in Iraq and removed the ownership of that property from them.

Arab countries are run by arabs for arabs. Jew country is run by jews for jews. I never denied this.

If you want to discuss civil marriage in Israel -- start a thread on it.

You were discussing it just fine until I posted something contrary.

 

[bgrouse]

This has long been a sore point for Palestinians and Israeli's.

The original law was an emergency measure, that was subsequently replaced by more sophisticated laws. A brief history of those laws, from Wikipedia: Israeli land and property laws - Wikipedia

‘Absentees’ property’ laws were several laws which were first introduced as emergency ordinances issued by the Jewish leadership but which after the war were incorporated into the laws of Israel. As examples of the first type of laws are the Emergency Regulations (Absentees’ Property) Law, 5709-1948 (December) which according to article 37 of the Absentees Property Law, 5710-1950 was replaced by the latter;[25] the Emergency Regulations (Requisition of Property) Law, 5709-1949, and other related laws.[26]

According to COHRE and BADIL (p. 41), unlike other laws that were designed to establish Israel’s legal control over lands, this body of law focused on formulating a legal definition for the people (mostly Arabs) who had left or been forced to flee from these lands.​

....As a result, two million dunams were confiscated and given to the custodian, who later transferred the land to the development authority. This law created the novel citizenship category of "present absentees" (nifkadim nohahim), persons present at the time but considered absent for the purpose of the law. These Israeli Arabs enjoyed all civil rights-including the right to vote in the Knesset elections-except one: the right to use and dispose of their property. About 30,000-35,000 Palestinians became "present absentees".[27]​

Wikipedia also notes:

The absentee property played an enormous role in making Israel a viable state. In 1954, more than one third of Israel's Jewish population lived on absentee property and nearly a third of the new immigrants (250,000 people) settled in urban areas abandoned by Arabs. Of 370 new Jewish settlements established between 1948 and 1953, 350 were on absentee property (Peretz, Israel and the Palestinian Arabs, 1958).​

And it notes this about the one of the laws that replaced the emergency law:

The Absentees’ Property Law, 5710- 1950
This law replaced the Emergency Regulations (Absentees’ Property) Law, 5709-1948. According to Sabri Jiryis (p. 84),[32] the definition of "absentee" in the law was framed in such a way as to ensure that it applied to every Palestinian or resident in Palestine who had left his usual place of residence in Palestine for any place inside or outside the country after the adoption of the partition of Palestine resolution by the UN. Article 1(b) states that "absentee" means...

...According to COHRE and BADIL (p. 41), the provisions in the law made sure that the term 'person' did not apply to Jews. The law also applied to Arabs who had become citizens of the State of Israel but were not in their usual place of residence as defined by the law. In this case, they were referred to as 'present absentees' and many lost their lands.​

It is very hard to make a claim that these laws were not for the purpose of trying to confiscate land from Palestinians, and give that land to Jewish residents, and to prevent them from being able to reclaim them, and that they were applied differently to Jews and to Arabs, that Jews could more easily reclaim their properties then Arabs.

Lest you think this is just old history, these laws are still in effect, and still in contention in the courts, this is from 2013.

Israel's Absentee Property Law exposes an absence of morality in Jerusalem

Few but the most liberal of Israelis take note of this irony – Arab house equals charm and character – and are willing to acknowledge the fuzzy moral territory of the Jerusalem we now find ourselves in today.


But 1948 is so long ago and peace so far away, and so we don’t like to think too hard about how these lovely “vintage” homes got here. Tuesday, on the other hand, that’s not so long ago at all. On Tuesday, Attorney General Yehuda Weinstein said in a legal opinion that a 63-year-old law allowing Israel to confiscate "absentee" properties may continue to be applied to Palestinian-owned homes in Jerusalem.

....“If the Israeli high court, which is hearing a case involving the issue, will rule in favor of recognizing the absentee law, the consequences to Palestinians and their East Jerusalem properties will be enormous. The Israeli custodian of absentee properties has routinely turned over properties under its control to settler and settler-related projects,” Kuttab writes. He also crystallizes why the law is so morally flawed. An Israeli who moves to a West Bank settlement will never be told that he has forfeited the apartment he owns in Jerusalem.


“The irony of the Israeli discussion about absentee properties in Jerusalem is [that it is] applicable only to Palestinian Arabs,” he adds. “There is no similar application of this law to Israeli settlers living in the West Bank and owning properties in Jerusalem or Israel.”


As Haaretz reported, this isn’t simply about leaving on the books a law that passed in 1950, when the Jewish state’ survival seemed less secure and Israelis feared droves of Palestinian refugees returning to claim the homes they left behind. Today, this is about Palestinians who live in the West Bank – and sometimes, meters from their property in Jerusalem – and had their homes confiscated because they’re now “absentees,” ie. no longer Jerusalem residents. In other words, we’re not talking about the homes of Palestinians who are already spending a second or even third generation in Jordan or Lebanon or somewhere much further afield – we’re talking about people who still live in the vicinity, under Israeli rule, but now find themselves on the wrong side of the line for maintaining their property.

“If the Israeli high court, which is hearing a case involving the issue, will rule in favor of recognizing the absentee law, the consequences to Palestinians and their East Jerusalem properties will be enormous. The Israeli custodian of absentee properties has routinely turned over properties under its control to settler and settler-related projects,” Kuttab writes. He also crystallizes why the law is so morally flawed. An Israeli who moves to a West Bank settlement will never be told that he has forfeited the apartment he owns in Jerusalem.


“The irony of the Israeli discussion about absentee properties in Jerusalem is [that it is] applicable only to Palestinian Arabs,” he adds. “There is no similar application of this law to Israeli settlers living in the West Bank and owning properties in Jerusalem or Israel.” ​

I think it's important to note for the purpose of this article - that Israel has been busy moving and adjusting the "boundaries" of Jerusalem in order to optimize Jewish demographics, which means if a Palestinian landowner is on the wrong side of the line suddenly, he loses whatever property he had on the other side.

And the High Court's Ruling? Supreme Court rules: Israel can confiscate Palestinian property in Jerusalem

I know that we are discussing the Absentee laws in Israel, here.
But I must wonder what is to be done with all the land and homes, etc eventually confiscated by the Arab Palestinians and Jordanians, from 1920 to 1948 in Gaza, TransJordan and in Samaria, Judea and The Jewish Quarter of East Jerusalem?

The issue started in 1920. It went on in 1925, 1929 and then more seriously in 1948.

ALL Jews were expelled from Gaza, TransJordan, Hebron, Judea, Samaria and the Jewish Quarter of Jerusalem ( "East Jerusalem")

Have there been any absentee laws in Gaza (via the British or Egypt) , TransJordan (The British or the Hashemite Kingdom) , Hebron ( The British or the Arab League), or Judea, Samaria and the Jewish Quarter (The British and the Hashemite Kingdom) between 1920 and 1967 where the Jews who were expelled could go to a court and appeal to have their property returned?

Do any laws exist in Jordan, or via the Arab League which would allow Jews and others to appeal to have their properties returned?

I bet Israel and the arab countries are two sides of the same coin, each supporting their particular group of religions/ethnicities first and foremost.

 

[Coyote]

This has long been a sore point for Palestinians and Israeli's.

The original law was an emergency measure, that was subsequently replaced by more sophisticated laws. A brief history of those laws, from Wikipedia: Israeli land and property laws - Wikipedia

‘Absentees’ property’ laws were several laws which were first introduced as emergency ordinances issued by the Jewish leadership but which after the war were incorporated into the laws of Israel. As examples of the first type of laws are the Emergency Regulations (Absentees’ Property) Law, 5709-1948 (December) which according to article 37 of the Absentees Property Law, 5710-1950 was replaced by the latter;[25] the Emergency Regulations (Requisition of Property) Law, 5709-1949, and other related laws.[26]

According to COHRE and BADIL (p. 41), unlike other laws that were designed to establish Israel’s legal control over lands, this body of law focused on formulating a legal definition for the people (mostly Arabs) who had left or been forced to flee from these lands.​

....As a result, two million dunams were confiscated and given to the custodian, who later transferred the land to the development authority. This law created the novel citizenship category of "present absentees" (nifkadim nohahim), persons present at the time but considered absent for the purpose of the law. These Israeli Arabs enjoyed all civil rights-including the right to vote in the Knesset elections-except one: the right to use and dispose of their property. About 30,000-35,000 Palestinians became "present absentees".[27]​

Wikipedia also notes:

The absentee property played an enormous role in making Israel a viable state. In 1954, more than one third of Israel's Jewish population lived on absentee property and nearly a third of the new immigrants (250,000 people) settled in urban areas abandoned by Arabs. Of 370 new Jewish settlements established between 1948 and 1953, 350 were on absentee property (Peretz, Israel and the Palestinian Arabs, 1958).​

And it notes this about the one of the laws that replaced the emergency law:

The Absentees’ Property Law, 5710- 1950
This law replaced the Emergency Regulations (Absentees’ Property) Law, 5709-1948. According to Sabri Jiryis (p. 84),[32] the definition of "absentee" in the law was framed in such a way as to ensure that it applied to every Palestinian or resident in Palestine who had left his usual place of residence in Palestine for any place inside or outside the country after the adoption of the partition of Palestine resolution by the UN. Article 1(b) states that "absentee" means...

...According to COHRE and BADIL (p. 41), the provisions in the law made sure that the term 'person' did not apply to Jews. The law also applied to Arabs who had become citizens of the State of Israel but were not in their usual place of residence as defined by the law. In this case, they were referred to as 'present absentees' and many lost their lands.​

It is very hard to make a claim that these laws were not for the purpose of trying to confiscate land from Palestinians, and give that land to Jewish residents, and to prevent them from being able to reclaim them, and that they were applied differently to Jews and to Arabs, that Jews could more easily reclaim their properties then Arabs.

Lest you think this is just old history, these laws are still in effect, and still in contention in the courts, this is from 2013.

Israel's Absentee Property Law exposes an absence of morality in Jerusalem

Few but the most liberal of Israelis take note of this irony – Arab house equals charm and character – and are willing to acknowledge the fuzzy moral territory of the Jerusalem we now find ourselves in today.


But 1948 is so long ago and peace so far away, and so we don’t like to think too hard about how these lovely “vintage” homes got here. Tuesday, on the other hand, that’s not so long ago at all. On Tuesday, Attorney General Yehuda Weinstein said in a legal opinion that a 63-year-old law allowing Israel to confiscate "absentee" properties may continue to be applied to Palestinian-owned homes in Jerusalem.

....“If the Israeli high court, which is hearing a case involving the issue, will rule in favor of recognizing the absentee law, the consequences to Palestinians and their East Jerusalem properties will be enormous. The Israeli custodian of absentee properties has routinely turned over properties under its control to settler and settler-related projects,” Kuttab writes. He also crystallizes why the law is so morally flawed. An Israeli who moves to a West Bank settlement will never be told that he has forfeited the apartment he owns in Jerusalem.


“The irony of the Israeli discussion about absentee properties in Jerusalem is [that it is] applicable only to Palestinian Arabs,” he adds. “There is no similar application of this law to Israeli settlers living in the West Bank and owning properties in Jerusalem or Israel.”


As Haaretz reported, this isn’t simply about leaving on the books a law that passed in 1950, when the Jewish state’ survival seemed less secure and Israelis feared droves of Palestinian refugees returning to claim the homes they left behind. Today, this is about Palestinians who live in the West Bank – and sometimes, meters from their property in Jerusalem – and had their homes confiscated because they’re now “absentees,” ie. no longer Jerusalem residents. In other words, we’re not talking about the homes of Palestinians who are already spending a second or even third generation in Jordan or Lebanon or somewhere much further afield – we’re talking about people who still live in the vicinity, under Israeli rule, but now find themselves on the wrong side of the line for maintaining their property.

“If the Israeli high court, which is hearing a case involving the issue, will rule in favor of recognizing the absentee law, the consequences to Palestinians and their East Jerusalem properties will be enormous. The Israeli custodian of absentee properties has routinely turned over properties under its control to settler and settler-related projects,” Kuttab writes. He also crystallizes why the law is so morally flawed. An Israeli who moves to a West Bank settlement will never be told that he has forfeited the apartment he owns in Jerusalem.


“The irony of the Israeli discussion about absentee properties in Jerusalem is [that it is] applicable only to Palestinian Arabs,” he adds. “There is no similar application of this law to Israeli settlers living in the West Bank and owning properties in Jerusalem or Israel.” ​

I think it's important to note for the purpose of this article - that Israel has been busy moving and adjusting the "boundaries" of Jerusalem in order to optimize Jewish demographics, which means if a Palestinian landowner is on the wrong side of the line suddenly, he loses whatever property he had on the other side.

And the High Court's Ruling? Supreme Court rules: Israel can confiscate Palestinian property in Jerusalem

I know that we are discussing the Absentee laws in Israel, here.
But I must wonder what is to be done with all the land and homes, etc eventually confiscated by the Arab Palestinians and Jordanians, from 1920 to 1948 in Gaza, TransJordan and in Samaria, Judea and The Jewish Quarter of East Jerusalem?

The issue started in 1920. It went on in 1925, 1929 and then more seriously in 1948.

ALL Jews were expelled from Gaza, TransJordan, Hebron, Judea, Samaria and the Jewish Quarter of Jerusalem ( "East Jerusalem")

Have there been any absentee laws in Gaza (via the British or Egypt) , TransJordan (The British or the Hashemite Kingdom) , Hebron ( The British or the Arab League), or Judea, Samaria and the Jewish Quarter (The British and the Hashemite Kingdom) between 1920 and 1967 where the Jews who were expelled could go to a court and appeal to have their property returned?

Do any laws exist in Jordan, or via the Arab League which would allow Jews and others to appeal to have their properties returned?

Ok, since you know we are discussing absentee land owner laws in Israel, how about we discuss that?

 

[Coyote]

You were talking about same rights. I'm talking about the same thing. Obviously you don't want to discuss anything that exposes your position. Not sure why you even bothered to get an account at a political discussion board.

All Israeli citizens have the same rights. By law. Interfaith marriage is permitted,

Did it change since 2014?

Israeli law does not permit marriages between members of different religions within its borders

Why interfaith marriage is on the rise in Israel - and why it's a problem

and treated the same as any other marriage. By law.

The topic of this discussion is the absentee property laws and the history, and carried over from the other thread, the context within which these laws exist. And ALSO the laws in Arab countries with respect to Jews and the context within which those exist.

For example, Iraqi law removed nationality from all Jews. Iraq also removed the right of Jews to hold property in Iraq and removed the ownership of that property from them.

Arab countries are run by arabs for arabs. Jew country is run by jews for jews. I never denied this.

If you want to discuss civil marriage in Israel -- start a thread on it.

Exactly. IP threads are required to be relatively on topic bgrouse so start another if you want that discussion.

 

[Coyote]

Please let's keep this discussion on Absentee Property Laws.

 

[Shusha]

Copied from the other thread (my comments):

Have you ever heard the expression, "Men are afraid women will laugh at them. Women are afraid men will kill them." (Margaret Atwood)? I think it is relevant.

Arabs also created a number of laws which were unacceptable, actually much more so -- such as laws removing nationality from Jews, and laws stripping Jews of all their property and rights to own it. Some Arab countries still have different laws for Jews than for everyone else. (You know what that is, yes?) But more than that, the Arab nations created a culture of hatred and oppression and savagery that was so toxic and so dangerous that nearly all the Jews in those nations just chose to leave. There is no question of Jews returning to those lands. None. Its an issue of survival. Jews do not believe it would be safe for them to live in those lands. (Hard enough these days in Europe).

Contrast that to the situation in Israel/Palestine. While there are absentee property laws in Israel, there is no culture of hatred and oppression in Israel against the Arabs. Which is not to say there is not some level of discrimination. But there is no danger for Arabs in Israel. The survival of Arabs in Israel is not in question. They feel safe in returning.

Looking at it another way... Stealing a loaf of bread isn't "right". But if a person is starving, they might do it anyway. And, as an onlooker, you would have compassion for that starving person who performs what is normally considered an immoral act in order to survive. And you would have some level of discomfort asking that starving person to return the bread and starve to death. The immoral act thus becomes the moral one.

So are absentee property laws immoral? Sure. By today's standards, absolutely. (The standards have changed drastically in the past 100 years.) But it was and STILL IS a matter of Jewish survival. Not just the survival of Israel -- but the survival of Jews. It still is. The only way for the Jewish people to protect the Jewish people is to hold a sovereign nation.

What happened, as was normal in cases of civil war in those times and even later, was an exchange of population between the Arabs and the Jews. The exchange happened in the context of the conflict and it was mutual and should be seen that way.



It is. Just like stealing a loaf of bread is a horrible thing. But if it is necessary for survival the morality becomes a lot more complex.

Remember the purpose of the separation is not to punish a people either individually or collectively -- but to prevent a hostile group from having access to the Jewish people in order to ensure the Jewish people's literal physical survival, as well as the survival of her identity, traditions, culture and religion. The morality becomes a whole lot more complex.

 

[Indeependent]

The Absentee Law is based on Biblical Law and applies to Jews also.

 

[Shusha]

The Absentee Law is based on Biblical Law and applies to Jews also.

Technically true. The law is not written to distinguish based on ethnicity.

Arab laws were written based on ethnicity.