Islam forbids

[Intense]

There is no concept of orginal sin in Islam

That is a Christian invention

I believe it started with Adam and Eve pointing fingers.

In the Bible neither Adam or Eve want to take responsibility for their actions and blame others.

This is not the case in the Quran.

The Quran Blames All that Question It's Authority Over Them. The Bible actually does too. Conscience is the Only survivor because It is Directly Accountable to God Sunni. The Bible and Quran are Tools of This World, exposed to the same risks as anything else before Us, that is of Material being. Many have been selling the Treasure Maps to Salvation as if Theirs is the Only True Way Sunni. Funny though how the Bible Itself and I will Presume the Quran, Too, will tell You that The Real Truth is Within You. Take the Hint and learn to be Your best Self. God First in All things. Stay clear of the snares. See you on the Other side? Who can say with surety?

 

[Kalam]

Book 010, Number 3813:
Abu Zubair heard Jabir b.'Abdullah (Allah be pleased with him) saying: Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) ordered us to kill dogs, and we carried out this order so much so that we also kill the dog coming with a woman from the desert. Then Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) forbade their killing. He (the Holy Prophet further) said: It is your duty the jet-black (dog) having two spots (on the eyes), for it is a devil.

It would be proper to mention the hadith collection in your citations. This report comes from Muslim's Sahih. Of course, it was decided via ijma' that this hadith was falsely attributed to the prophet (SAWS).

“Dogs in the Islamic Tradition and Nature” (Article Included)

Book 010, Number 3820:
Salim b. Abdullah reported on the authority of his father that Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) said: Whosover amongst the owners of the house keeps a dog other than one meant for watching the herd or for hunting loses two qirat of his deeds every day.

...And here we see no evidence of mistreating animals.

Narrated Abu Huraira:
Hamza bin 'Abdullah narrated: My father said. "During the lifetime of Allah's Apostle, the dogs used to urinate, and pass through the mosques (come and go)."

We can look at the entire report to see what was done in response to this:

Narrated Abu Huraira: The Prophet said, "A man saw a dog eating mud from thirst. So, that man took a shoe with water and kept on pouring the water for the dog till it quenched its thirst. So Allah approved of his deed and made him to enter Paradise." And narrated Hamza bin 'Abdullah: My father said. "During the lifetime of Allah's Apostle, the dogs used to urinate, and pass through the mosques, nevertheless they never used to sprinkle water on it (urine of the dog.)"

- Sahih Bukhari, Wudu ("Ablutions"), no. 174​

You, or more likely the website you cut and pasted this report from, conveniently omitted the portion describing the rewards for kindness to animals and the tame response to dogs urinating in the masjids. I wonder why?

Bukhari volume 4, Book 54, Number 540:
Narrated 'Abdullah bin 'Umar:
Allah's Apostle ordered that the dogs should be killed.

A quick reference to the text makes it obvious that the dogs referenced here were rabid dogs:

Narrated 'Aisha: The Prophet said, "Five kinds of animals are mischief-doers and can be killed even in the Sanctuary: They are the rat the scorpion, the kite, the crow and the rabid dog."

- Sahih Bukhari, "Beginning of Creation", no. 531.​

Volume:4 Book :54 (Beginning of Creation)Number :525 Top
Narrated Aisha:

The Prophet called the Salamander, a mischief-doer. I have not heard him ordering that it should be killed. Sad bin Waqqas claims that the Prophet ordered that it should be killed.

Salamanders do not live in the Arabian peninsula. The word has either been translated incorrectly or refers to an amphibian that would not fit the taxonomic definition of "salamander" today. Either way, your suggestion that knowledge of salamanders is a necessary component of prophethood is laughable at best.

The rest of your passages deal with killing poisonous snakes. I'm not even sure why you chose to include them in your post here. Here is another report that should clarify Islam's position on cruelty to animals:

Narrated Abu Huraira: Allah's Apostle said, "A prostitute was forgiven by Allah, because, passing by a panting dog near a well and seeing that the dog was about to die of thirst, she took off her shoe, and tying it with her head-cover she drew out some water for it. So, Allah forgave her because of that."

-Sahih Bukhari, "Beginning of Creation", no. 538​

Your failure to successfully argue that Islam enjoins cruelty to animals and your failure to address the majority of the points raised by Qaradawi have been duly noted.

 

[Kalam]

Irrational cruelty and near perfect ignorance of Islams only prophet.

Please say that Shaykh Qaradawi is ignorant of Muhammad (SAWS). I need a quote for my signature. Better yet, tell Islamonline yourself and post the response here. I'm sure they'll be taken down a few pegs by your incalculable knowledge of fiqh and scripture.

 

[Kalam]

Liability casts in his lot with the Islamophobe in spite of knowing nothing about the topic and not taking the time to look into it himself. How predictable.

 

[Kalam]

Swizzlestix's implicit claim that she knows enough about Islam to draw theological conclusions does not even merit a response.

 

[Kalam]

Here we have it: Fitnuts shamelessly claims that he knows more about Islamic theology and jurisprudence than one of the religion's most eminent scholars and posts a response to him so poorly substantiated that a humble lay-Muslim was able to refute it. Has this thread run its course, or what?

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

Your failure to successfully argue that Islam enjoins cruelty to animals and your failure to address the majority of the points raised by Qaradawi have been duly noted.

Sorry you have presented a apologetic that says Islam forbids the killing of innocent people but has failed to show how non muslims are innocent.
Your imagining that you have provided proof is circular reasoning .
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e1fKzw05Q5A&feature=related]YouTube - Idiocracy Brawndo's Got Electrolytes[/ame]

The hadith you present as pathetic proof to support your preposterous proposition concerning Islam's rational approach to animals

The Book Pertaining to Clothes and Decoration (Kitab Al-Libas wa'l-Zinah)
Muslim :: Book 24 : Hadith 5248
Maimuna reported that one morning Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) was silent with grief. Maimuna said: Allah's Messenger, I find a change in your mood today. Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) said: Gabriel had promised me that he would meet me tonight, but he did not meet me. By Allah, he never broke his promises, and Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) spent the day in this sad (mood). Then it occurred to him that there had been a puppy under their cot. He commanded and it was turned out. He then took some water in his hand and sprinkled it at that place. When it was evening Gabriel met him and he said to him: you promised me that you would meet me the previous night. He said: Yes, but we do not enter a house in which there is a dog or a picture. Then on that very morning he commanded the killing of the dogs until he announced that the dog kept for the orchards should also be killed, but he spared the dog meant for the protection of extensive fields (or big gardens).


and only illuminates the ridicules rules and rituals of Islam, Killing animals is prohibited when a muslim is in the" purified" state ' with exceptions .
Bukhari :: Book 4 :: Volume 54 :: Hadith 532
Narrated 'Abdullah bin 'Umar:

Allah's Apostle said, "It is not sinful of a person in the state of Ihram to kill any of these five animals: The scorpion, the rat, the rabid dog, the crow and the kite."
Bukhari :: Book 4 :: Volume 54 :: Hadith 531
Narrated 'Aisha:

The Prophet said, "Five kinds of animals are mischief-doers and can be killed even in the Sanctuary: They are the rat the scorpion, the kite, the crow and the rabid dog."


Salamanders indigenous to Saudi Arabia eat mosquito larva killing them helps spread a plague that hits muslims nations hardest .


Your assertions as well your sheiks are flimsy lies .

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

Here we have it: Fitnuts shamelessly claims that he knows more about Islamic theology and jurisprudence than one of the religion's most eminent scholars and posts a response to him so poorly substantiated that a humble lay-Muslim was able to refute it. Has this thread run its course, or what?

I dont need to be a scholar to
recognize bullshit regardless of how artfully it is arranged, when I see it.
Your " eminent scholars" are bullshit artists, as are you.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

Many muslims like to say " Islam forbids the killing of innocent people"
Please provide Islamic scripture to prove unequivocally non muslims are innocent.

 

[Kalam]

Sorry you have presented a apologetic that says Islam forbids the killing of innocent people but has failed to show how non muslims are innocent.

This doesn't even require scripture to be demonstrated. It can be extrapolated from the fact that Muhammad (SAWS) did not slaughter every disbeliever with whom he came into contact. Muhammad (SAWS) allied himself with some non-Muslims, fought against others, and admitted others yet into the ummah of believers (Madinah Compact.) We're to follow his example and treat non-believers based on their deeds and merits, not their beliefs.

I will invoke scripture anyway. The non-innocent are defined in 5:32 -

For this reason We prescribed for the Children of Israel that whoever kills a person, unless it be for murder or for mischief in the land, it is as though he had killed all men. And whoever saves a life, it is as though he had saved the lives of all men. And certainly Our messengers came to them with clear arguments, but even after that many of them commit excesses in the land.​

This ayah associates the non-innocent (non-innocent to the extent of deserving death) with those guilty of murder and spreading "mischief" (fasad) in the land. The first category is clear and the second can be define more clearly by examining the specific offenses with which fasad is associated in the Qur'an. The following crimes are those mentioned specifically in conjunction with fasad:

• Unjust violence, purposeful destruction of property and/or means of subsistence (2:205);
• Participation in unjust wars (5:62);
• Refusal to provide assistance to refugees when doing so is possible (8:72-73);
• Acting in the manner of Pharaoh, meaning persecuting others for religious reasons as he persecuted Moses (89:12).

It should also be noted that these crimes must be "[spread]... in the land" to be considered capital offenses, presumably meaning that they must be committed on multiple occasions or be especially heinous. Purposefully killing a person for reasons other than those listed above, then, can be considered unjust according to the Qur'an and Islam.

fasad = فَسَادٍ

See also:
Fasad - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Your imagining that you have provided proof is circular reasoning .

Your imagining that your argument hasn't been refuted in nearly every way possible is a product of your fanatical commitment to justifying your hatred for Islam.

The hadith you present as pathetic proof to support your preposterous proposition concerning Islam's rational approach to animals

I acknowledge that you are unable to refute my argument in light of the clear ahadith I posted regarding the treatment of animals. Your concession is accepted.

and only illuminates the ridicules rules and rituals of Islam, Killing animals is prohibited when a muslim is in the" purified" state ' with exceptions.

...Highlighting Islam's opposition to animal cruelty.

Salamanders indigenous to Saudi Arabia eat mosquito larva killing them helps spread a plague that hits muslims nations hardest.

No significant number of members of the Caudata order of amphibians inhabits the Arabian peninsula. If you find that this is incorrect, please provide something from a respected ecological source that says so.

Your assertions as well your sheiks are flimsy lies .

My assertions are wholly supported by scripture. You have not even begun to address Qaradawi's argument, much less demonstrate that it's a "lie." He's not my shaykh.

It is reported on the authority of Abu Huraira that the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) observed: He who believes in Allah and the Last Day should either utter good words or better keep silence; and he who believes in Allah and the Last Day should treat his neighbour with kindness and he who believes in Allah and the Last Day should show hospitality to his guest.

-Sahih Muslim, Iman ("Faith"), no. 75
​

 

[Kalam]

I dont need to be a scholar to recognize bullshit regardless of how artfully it is arranged, when I see it. Your " eminent scholars" are bullshit artists, as are you.

So prove it and send your "rebuttal" to Qaradawi.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

Salamanders indigenous to Saudi Arabia eat mosquito larva killing them helps spread a plague that hits muslims nations hardest.

No significant number of members of the Caudata order of amphibians inhabits the Arabian peninsula. If you find that this is incorrect, please provide something from a respected ecological source that says so.

Moving the goal post ,

Salamanders do not live in the Arabian peninsula.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/1703281-post1182.html

Your assertions as well your sheiks are flimsy lies .

My assertions are wholly supported by scripture. You have not even begun to address Qaradawi's argument, much less demonstrate that it's a "lie." He's not my shaykh.

"Lies" to present am whitewashed image of Islam a distorted image.
If your post represent Islam mine do as well.
As are mine.
Meaning of Mischief





In his Tafsir, As-Suddi said that Ibn `Abbas and Ibn Mas`ud commented,


﴿وَإِذَا قِيلَ لَهُمْ لاَ تُفْسِدُواْ فِى الأَرْضِ قَالُواْ إِنَّمَا نَحْنُ مُصْلِحُونَ ﴾


(And when it is said to them: "Do not make mischief on the earth,'' they say: "We are only peacemakers.'') "They are the hypocrites. As for,


﴿لاَ تُفْسِدُواْ فِى الأَرْضِ﴾


("Do not make mischief on the earth''), that is disbelief and acts of disobedience.'' Abu Ja`far said that Ar-Rabi` bin Anas said that Abu Al-`Aliyah said that Allah's statement,


﴿وَإِذَا قِيلَ لَهُمْ لاَ تُفْسِدُواْ فِى الأَرْضِ﴾


(And when it is said to them: "Do not make mischief on the earth,''), means, "Do not commit acts of disobedience on the earth. Their mischief is disobeying Allah, because whoever disobeys Allah on the earth, or commands that Allah be disobeyed, he has committed mischief on the earth. Peace on both the earth and in the heavens is ensured (and earned) through obedience (to Allah).'' Ar-Rabi` bin Anas and Qatadah said similarly.

 

[Kalam]

As are mine.
Meaning of Mischief

I'm sorry; commentaries do not constitute scripture. Unless what you post has an irrefutable scriptural basis, it can be dismissed as a false interpretation.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

As are mine.
Meaning of Mischief

I'm sorry; commentaries do not constitute scripture. Unless what you post has an irrefutable scriptural basis, it can be dismissed as a false interpretation.

Really?
Please provide some scholarly opinion that suggest Tafsir Ibn Kathir should be dismissed as a false interpretation.

 

[Kalam]

As are mine.
Meaning of Mischief

I'm sorry; commentaries do not constitute scripture. Unless what you post has an irrefutable scriptural basis, it can be dismissed as a false interpretation.

Really?
Please provide some scholarly opinion that suggest Tafsir Ibn Kathir should be dismissed as a false interpretation.

You'll notice that I did not say that his tafsir in its entirety should be rejected, but that specific interpretation -- unless it can be shown to have a firm basis in scripture -- can be dismissed.

How about you demonstrate that fasad means "disobedience (to God)" using the Qur'an? I have already explained its meaning in the Qur'anic sense.

And don't pretend like you care about "scholarly opinions" unless they reinforce your preconceptions, hypocrite.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

I'm sorry; commentaries do not constitute scripture. Unless what you post has an irrefutable scriptural basis, it can be dismissed as a false interpretation.

Really?
Please provide some scholarly opinion that suggest Tafsir Ibn Kathir should be dismissed as a false interpretation.

You'll notice that I did not say that his tafsir in its entirety should be rejected, but that specific interpretation -- unless it can be shown to have a firm basis in scripture -- can be dismissed.

How about you demonstrate that fasad means "disobedience (to God)" using the Qur'an? I have already explained its meaning in the Qur'anic sense.

And don't pretend like you care about "scholarly opinions" unless they reinforce your preconceptions, hypocrite.

You go with Wikipedia,
Which states:
Fasad is an Arabic language term meaning corruption, unlawful warfare, or crimes against law and order in the Muslim community.[1] The Qur'an relates the term to actions during wartime that would qualify as war crimes, such as the deliberate killing of non-combatant civilians.[1] In recent years, many Islamic thinkers have defined acts of terrorism by Muslims as "fasad" and anti-Islamic.[2][3][1]
Fasad is a general concept of social disorder that, within Islamic jurisprudence, is the source of and basis for 'Hirabah'-related laws. 'Hirabah' refers to illegal acts done under the principle of fasad.[4]

Which ignores Islamic principles .
2:193.
And fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief and worshipping of others along with Allâh) and (all and every kind of) worship is for Allâh (Alone).[] But if they cease, let there be no transgression except against Az-Zâlimûn (the polytheists, and wrong-doers, etc.)
The Noble Quran : Surat 2

let there be no transgression except against Az-Zâlimûn
let there be no transgression except against Az-Zâlimûn
let there be no transgression except against Az-Zâlimûn
let there be no transgression except against Az-Zâlimûn

Ill stick with the most widely accepted exegesis of the Quran known to mankind.
Meaning of Mischief





In his Tafsir, As-Suddi said that Ibn `Abbas and Ibn Mas`ud commented,


﴿وَإِذَا قِيلَ لَهُمْ لاَ تُفْسِدُواْ فِى الأَرْضِ قَالُواْ إِنَّمَا نَحْنُ مُصْلِحُونَ ﴾


(And when it is said to them: "Do not make mischief on the earth,'' they say: "We are only peacemakers.'') "They are the hypocrites. As for,


﴿لاَ تُفْسِدُواْ فِى الأَرْضِ﴾


("Do not make mischief on the earth''), that is disbelief and acts of disobedience.'' Abu Ja`far said that Ar-Rabi` bin Anas said that Abu Al-`Aliyah said that Allah's statement,


﴿وَإِذَا قِيلَ لَهُمْ لاَ تُفْسِدُواْ فِى الأَرْضِ﴾


(And when it is said to them: "Do not make mischief on the earth,''), means, "Do not commit acts of disobedience on the earth. Their mischief is disobeying Allah, because whoever disobeys Allah on the earth, or commands that Allah be disobeyed, he has committed mischief on the earth. Peace on both the earth and in the heavens is ensured (and earned) through obedience (to Allah).'' Ar-Rabi` bin Anas and Qatadah said similarly.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

Many muslims like to say " Islam forbids the killing of innocent people"
Please provide Islamic scripture to prove unequivocally non muslims are innocent.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

Many muslims like to say " Islam forbids the killing of innocent people"
Please provide Islamic scripture to prove unequivocally non muslims are innocent.

 

[logical4u]

Many muslims like to say " Islam forbids the killing of innocent people"
Please provide Islamic scripture to prove unequivocally non muslims are innocent.

Question: does that mean that muslims have a duty to kill ALL non-muslims because the 'islamic scripture' doesn't tell you they are innocent?
I would like you to be clear with your answer and if possible, go ahead and quote where it tells you to murder anyone that is not muslim.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

Many muslims like to say " Islam forbids the killing of innocent people"
Please provide Islamic scripture to prove unequivocally non muslims are innocent.

Question: does that mean that muslims have a duty to kill ALL non-muslims because the 'islamic scripture' doesn't tell you they are innocent?
I would like you to be clear with your answer and if possible, go ahead and quote where it tells you to murder anyone that is not muslim.

8:39

And fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief and polytheism: i.e. worshipping others besides Allâh) and the religion (worship) will all be for Allâh Alone [in the whole of the world[]]. But if they cease (worshipping others besides Allâh), then certainly, Allâh is All-Seer of what they do
2:193.
And fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief and worshipping of others along with Allâh) and (all and every kind of) worship is for Allâh (Alone).[] But if they cease, let there be no transgression except against Az-Zâlimûn (the polytheists, and wrong-doers, etc193

http://www.ummah.com/what-is-islam/quran/noble/

Tafsir.com Tafsir Ibn Kathir

Tafsir.com Tafsir Ibn Kathir

Tafsir.com Tafsir Ibn Kathir