Is the US falling behind in auto innovation?

[22lcidw]

We ruled the auto world until the first oil crisis. Our vehicles were huge and comfortable in spite of themselves. Foreign cars were limited to around 10% of sales and there was no problem until the first oil crisis. Our smaller cars from before the oil crisis were not competitive with the cars from Japan after the first oil crisis as they were heavier and not as fuel efficient. We then forced ourselves to reduce the size of cars. And design newer smaller cars like Japan. We found out that their quality incredible compared to our quality. Teh American companies even fooled the consumers with their vehicles introduced. My father purchased Fords. New cars like the Torino, and Fairmount were dogs. My Dad went oh for three in those vehicles. I know. I bought two of them from him and put money into them regularly. The second oil crisis put the dagger in the heart of our world auto domination.

 

[Darkwind]

Maybe im just 40 years too late

I guess my question revolved around, are Americans paying high prices for cars that are substandard compared to the rest of the world? That minivan i posted is about $78,000 in american dollars, and while that kind of money will buy you a nice vehicle here, i dont think it would be as nice as that van.

Not with American wages.

That van would go $110, $120k here.

 

[petro]

I've had hit or miss on cars. Most American cars compared to the Japanese cars I have owned were rolling pieces of shit.
One exception was a 1996 Jeep Grand Cherokee I ran to 340,000 miles with pretty much just routine maintenance. Tranny finally went, but engine was still strong.
Tried a 2011 5.7 Hemi Grand Cherokee and that thing was nothing but problems.

Last couple years I have got a 2019 TRD off road Tundra that ironically is built by Toyota's American division in Texas, engine in Indiana and chassis and suspension built at another American plant.
The truck is American, built for the American consumer, and you won't necessarily find it in Europe or Japan.

So far, knock on wood, it is a trust worthy, reliable vehicle that holds value far better than the big threes lineup of trucks. Doesn't have the annoying start/stop crap or the lifter eating cylinder deactivation garbage, and still a normal proven 6 speed transmission. Not a single recall for my year and model. But avoid anything newer with the twin turbo V6. Toyota fucked up by ditching a proven drivetrain. The new Tacoma is also loaded with glitches.

Personally I wouldn't buy anything post Covid from any manufacturer right now. All the electronic crap has put everyone on the recall and warranty lists.

 

[Concerned American]

We ruled the auto world until the first oil crisis. Our vehicles were huge and comfortable in spite of themselves. Foreign cars were limited to around 10% of sales and there was no problem until the first oil crisis. Our smaller cars from before the oil crisis were not competitive with the cars from Japan after the first oil crisis as they were heavier and not as fuel efficient. We then forced ourselves to reduce the size of cars. And design newer smaller cars like Japan. We found out that their quality incredible compared to our quality. Teh American companies even fooled the consumers with their vehicles introduced. My father purchased Fords. New cars like the Torino, and Fairmount were dogs. My Dad went oh for three in those vehicles. I know. I bought two of them from him and put money into them regularly. The second oil crisis put the dagger in the heart of our world auto domination.

I lived through those times and had good friends that worked for the big 3. Those companies became fat, happy and complacent during the 60s and 70s while the Japanese worked to make cars that were economical to fill the need of the common consumer. I owned Japanese cars through the 70s and my friends chastised me for buying foreign. I told them when the US car companies decided to compete, I would look at them. In the late 80s they had gotten the hint and competed. I bought my first new Ford in 89 and I've had four since and I've been very satisfied with my purchases. They are competing well against the Japanese. I would still buy Japanese--certain companies, if their products met my needs.

 

[ThisIsMe]

I had a 1992 Mercedes with the soft close doors. That's nothing new.

Auto manufactuers are always inventing new expensive things to put in cars that distract, break and annoy.

It wasnt just the doors, it was the interior features. The vehicle on the inside is jusr beautiful.

I also found this:



But its just a concept. For some reason, the auto makers come out with these awesome concept cars, but none of them ever make it to production. We get scaled down versions of the concept cars, which is disappointing because the concept versions are always very nice.

 

[ThisIsMe]

It's true, we are not. There are several reason for it if you'd like to discuss.

I dont see anything like this in actual production in the US, im curious as to why.

 

[ThisIsMe]

Not with American wages.

That van would go $110, $120k here.

Its like 529,000 yuan, which is about $78,000 american dollars.

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

We ruled the auto world until the first oil crisis. Our vehicles were huge and comfortable in spite of themselves. Foreign cars were limited to around 10% of sales and there was no problem until the first oil crisis. Our smaller cars from before the oil crisis were not competitive with the cars from Japan after the first oil crisis as they were heavier and not as fuel efficient. We then forced ourselves to reduce the size of cars. And design newer smaller cars like Japan. We found out that their quality incredible compared to our quality. Teh American companies even fooled the consumers with their vehicles introduced. My father purchased Fords. New cars like the Torino, and Fairmount were dogs. My Dad went oh for three in those vehicles. I know. I bought two of them from him and put money into them regularly. The second oil crisis put the dagger in the heart of our world auto domination.

Cretin-Created Crisis

There was no good reason for the oil crisis. The infidels' Big Oil purposely reduced American production and made us dependent on OPEC, which they created and directed. The goal of our petrocrats was to gouge on prices and blame the Arabs for it.

 

[Dorian Mode]

Let me know in 3 or 4 years if it is still on the road and everything works.

That's what they said about Datsun and Toyota in the 70's. 200,000 miles later and they were all still going strong.

 

[Crepitus]

I dont see anything like this in actual production in the US, im curious as to why.

Too much focus on corporate profitability and not enough on the consumers, for starters. Then there's a slew of very restrictive safety regs, many enacted just for the purpose of keeping out cheaper imports to protect the US industries profit margins, and don't even get me started on tariffs...

 

[ThisIsMe]

Too much focus on corporate profitability and not enough on the consumers, for starters. Then there's a slew of very restrictive safety regs, many enacted just for the purpose of keeping out cheaper imports to protect the US industries profit margins, and don't even get me started on tariffs...

I agree that its a money thing. Ive been sour on the auto industry for a long time now, after the bailouts where the taxpayer helped these companies out and they thanked us by jacking up their prices by 30%.

This is an interior shot of their Tiggo9 suv..that is gorgeous. Id drive that. Why cant we see this in american cars?

 

[Concerned American]

That's what they said about Datsun and Toyota in the 70's. 200,000 miles later and they were all still going strong.

I'll agree with Honda and Toyota---Datsun/Nissan not so much. Also Chinese products are not known for the highest quality in the world. The only way of knowing is what time will tell. Are you willing to spend $78K on a whim? I'd like a little more history.

 

[Darkwind]

Its like 529,000 yuan, which is about $78,000 american dollars.

Yes, built by them using their wages.

 

[Dorian Mode]

I'll agree with Honda and Toyota---Datsun/Nissan not so much. Also Chinese products are not known for the highest quality in the world. The only way of knowing is what time will tell. Are you willing to spend $78K on a whim? I'd like a little more history.

Well, I've only really driven Audis pretty much my whole life and they are great for luxury, but the quality is probably the same as these Chinese cars! I too would wait until a decade has passed before trusting a Chinese car. I still wouldn't trust a Tesla, but that's me.

 

[Concerned American]

Well, I've only really driven Audis pretty much my whole life and they are great for luxury, but the quality is probably the same as these Chinese cars! I too would wait until a decade has passed before trusting a Chinese car. I still wouldn't trust a Tesla, but that's me.

I don't own a Tesla either.

 

[petro]

Shame that the American GM division once known as Saturn isn't still around. One of the other more reliable vehicles I owned with the first wife. Had two of them and they just kept going with just normal maintenance and never threw codes. My ex is still driving the Ion with over 300K on it. No major repairs needed. Saturns were everywhere for a while.
Saw one last week. They were no frills, but I prefer reliable over tech crap.
One of the few four cylinders with a timing chain instead of a belt that needs replacing every 90K.

 

[Dorian Mode]

I don't own a Tesla either.

My impression from what little I've seen on YouTube is that the Chinese company BYD is making decent cars that are very economical. I think 15 years ago the Chinese stuff was generally inferior, but it seems that quality has risen noticeably in almost all sectors. I am less afraid to buy Chinese stuff now. I would prefer to buy American but not so much stuff is actually manufactured in America today, in fact most American brands manufacture in China.

 

[Concerned American]

Shame that the American GM division once known as Saturn isn't still around. One of the other more reliable vehicles I owned with the first wife. Had two of them and they just kept going with just normal maintenance and never threw codes. My ex is still driving the Ion with over 300K on it. No major repairs needed. Saturns were everywhere for a while.
Saw one last week. They were no frills, but I prefer reliable over tech crap.
One of the few four cylinders with a timing chain instead of a belt that needs replacing every 90K.

Popularity has a lot to do with geography. I came to this conclusion after moving from CA to WA. In CA, typically Hondas, Teslas and those types of cars seemed most popular. However, I never saw as many Subarus in CA as I see here in WA. I think the reason is weather. Subarus are all wheel drive and inexpensive, so they fill the bill for a larger number of people.

 

[petro]

Popularity has a lot to do with geography. I came to this conclusion after moving from CA to WA. In CA, typically Hondas, Teslas and those types of cars seemed most popular. However, I never saw as many Subarus in CA as I see here in WA. I think the reason is weather. Subarus are all wheel drive and inexpensive, so they fill the bill for a larger number of people.

Pickup trucks and SUV'S are king in Central MN. I won't drive or buy anything without 4x4.

Trucks are still America's most popular vehicle choice. Gotta carry work tools and be able to tow toys on weekends. A lot of lakes to tow boats, snowmobiles or ice fishing shacks to.

 

[Concerned American]

Pickup trucks and SUV'S are king in Central MN. I won't drive or buy anything without 4x4.

Trucks are still America's most popular vehicle choice. Gotta carry work tools and be able to tow toys on weekends. A lot of lakes to tow boats, snowmobiles or ice fishing shacks to.

I am partial to Fords, but I also like Honda and Toyota. I drive a Ford SUV and a Super Duty Ford diesel pick up -- both 4x4.