Zone1 Is the Baptist and Reform Theology approach to NDE accounts going to cause...

Will near death experience accounts divide Christianity much as the Protestant Reformation did?

  • No

    Votes: 1 50.0%
  • Yes

    Votes: 1 50.0%
  • I kind of hope so, that could be a good thing?!

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • I certainly do hope not, that would be terrible?!

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    2

DennisPTate

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.... a massive "falling away" of Baptists and Reform Theology Protestants, over to Roman Catholicism and to Mormonism due to the fact that Roman Catholics and Latter day Saints do take NDE accounts seriously?!


Satan set things up brilliantly nearly two decades ago with a very flawed dad, whose son had a near death experience and the son told his dad. His dad wrote a book and serious money started coming in to the dad whose name was on the copywright.

My own personal belief is that several sincere and well meaning Theologians fell into Satan's trap....
just like the Apostle Paul fell into the anger and bitterness against the Messianic Jewish movement of the first century.....
and Paul was arresting Christians and even "compelling some of them to blaspheme" the name of Messiah Yeshua - Jesus.

We can be pretty sure that Paul was not able to get the Messianic Jewish followers of Rabbi Yeshua - Jesus to blaspheme by tickling their feet with feathers.......
... so anyway....
here is an article that I believe is a sincere Christian Theologian falling into a trap that could lead to perhaps fifty percent of Baptists and Reform Theologians "falling away" from the Protestant Movement and joining "The Super Church" when the Super Church fully rises up!


A Not-So-Little Lie

The Boy Who Came Back From Heaven was a pretty good book, and then it was a pretty interesting movie. But, first and foremost, it was a fascinating event. If you’ve forgotten the story, let me give you a quick review.
Alex Malarkey was six years old when he was in a car accident. That accident left him in a coma for two months. When he revived, the lad said he had been to heaven and had spoken to Jesus. As proof, he shared a lot of information which the family had never shared with him: things he should not have known.
A great many people were touched by the lad’s story.
Some churches reported enrollment in their adult confirmation classes saw a sizable increase. I know The Lutheran Hour received a fair number of requests to talk about the boy who came back from the dead. They didn’t care if we spoke about Malarkey in the sermon or in the question-and-answer segment. They only wanted us to make use of this true and moving story, so hearts might be won for the Lord.
Well, maybe it is time to speak about Alex Malarkey.
Better yet, let’s let Malarkey speak for himself. Recently, in a letter which is to be published, he wrote, “I did not die. I did not go to heaven. I said I went to heaven because I thought it would get me attention. When I made the claims that I did, I had never read the Bible.”
With those words Malarkey has made a pretty profound and far-reaching confession.
Some of the people whose faith was built on his previous claims will be disappointed and angry. Skeptics and cynics will point to Malarkey and say, “All Christianity is based on such lies.” Preachers who founded their sermons on the reports of this innocent boy will be just a bit embarrassed. As for you and me, we should be thankful.
We should be thankful because Malarkey has more to say than “I’m sorry that I lied.”
Along with his apology, Malarkey has said, “It is only through repentance of your sins and a belief in Jesus as the Son of God, who died for your sins … that you can be forgiven ….” He continues, you can be saved, “not by reading a work of man. I want the whole world to know that the Bible is sufficient … the Bible is enough.”
Jesus said the same thing many years ago. He knew the devil loves to produce false prophets who do wondrous things and preach marvelous words. That’s why the Savior warned His followers: “Listen to the Word. Only in God’s Word which points to the Savior will you be given the words of eternal life” (see John 6:68).
THE PRAYER: Dear Lord, I give thanks for Your Word, which is truth. Even more, I rejoice that my faith is founded on the Savior who lived, died and rose, so I might be forgiven and saved. In Jesus’ Name I give thanks. Amen.



In my opinion the original book was the actual testimony of young Alex Malarkey. The dad did a good job of writing up the book BUT.... when dad started raking in serious USA Dollars.... mom decided to allow Christian Theologians to preach to her little disabled son until he came to the conclusion that what he had told his dad must be from the Devil, due to the case that he was hearing from some Christian Theologians that what he reported seemed to "contradict the Bible?"


I feel a duty to warn Baptist church officials and Reform Theology Christians that their approach could lead to their churches being significantly emptied as more and more and more and more near death experience accounts come out as Jesus sends angels to work through the hands of doctors and nurses to revive more and more people who are actually dying, and then being resurrected, [the Robert Marshall, Fort Worth Texas case is so extreme that it can be compared to the resurrection of Lazarus after four days]? The difference though is that Lazarus did not have well trained modern medical personnel assisting him like Mr. Robert Marshall did.

My point... is that Baptist and Reform Theology Christians may find themselves in shoes much like that of the Apostle Paul, who was kicking against the goads of his own conscience as he persecuted the Messianic Jews of the first century. The Apostle Paul would be unlikely to arrest a Gentile Christian such as the house of Cornelius, because it was Jews seemingly falling away from "Judaism, as Paul understood Judaism" that was the real problem in the eyes of Paul.


[Baptist Convention of Iowa] :

FABRICATED: ‘I DID NOT GO TO HEAVEN’​


by David Roach

NASHVILLE (BP) — LifeWay Christian Resources’ decision to stop selling a discredited book about a 6 year-old’s supposed vision of heaven is being cited as a reminder that followers of Jesus should rely on the Bible rather than subjective experience for their knowledge of the afterlife.


“Anytime you step away from the clear, revelatory, propositional statements of Scripture into your own experience, then you open yourself to every kind of weird existential idea out there,” Chris Osborne, a Texas pastor who believes books like Malarkey’s are unbiblical, told Baptist Press. “We want people bound to truth, not to what they feel or what they think they saw or what they experience.”

LifeWay decided Jan. 15 that it would stop selling “The Boy Who Came Back from Heaven” by the father-son team of Kevin and Alex Malarkey after Alex, now 16, said in a statement that he fabricated the supposed vision of heaven on which the bestselling book is based.

“I did not die. I did not go to Heaven,” Alex Malarkey wrote in an open letter to LifeWay and other book retailers.

“I said I went to heaven because I thought it would get me attention. When I made the claims that I did, I had never read the Bible. People have profited from lies, and continue to. They should read the Bible, which is enough. The Bible is the only source of truth. Anything written by man cannot be infallible,” Malarkey wrote.

LifeWay spokesman Marty King said in a statement released to BP, “LifeWay was informed last week that Alex Malarkey retracted his testimony about visiting heaven as told in the book ‘The Boy Who Came Back from Heaven.’ Therefore, we returned to the publisher the few copies we had in our stores. LifeWay is committed to becoming even more proactive the next few months in evaluating the resources we carry.”

In 2004, Malarkey spent two months in a coma and was paralyzed from the neck down following a car accident. When he awoke, Malarkey reported experiencing a vision of heaven that included being guided by angels and meeting Jesus.

Kevin Malarkey said he “felt no urge” to share his son’s story for five years, but he retained an agent and secured a book deal with Tyndale House Publishers in 2009, British newspaper The Guardian reported. Though Alex is listed as a coauthor, Kevin Malarkey is the sole owner of the copyright, according to information posted in the United States Copyright Office’s public catalog. Kevin Malarkey also owns the copyright for a “The Boy Who Came Back from Heaven” film and a Spanish version of the book.

Alex’s mother Beth Malarkey — who Christianity Today reported is separated from Kevin — has been writing on her blog since at least 2011 that the book contains inaccuracies, according to the Guardian. Beth Malarkey said she and Alex have not received any proceeds from the book’s sale, CT reported.

Tyndale announced in a Jan. 14 statement that it would “immediately put the book and all ancillary products into out-of-print status” and allow retailers to return their remaining inventory.

Last June, the Southern Baptist Convention adopted a resolution that touted “the sufficiency of Scripture regarding the afterlife” and warned Christians not to allow “the numerous books and movies purporting to explain or describe the afterlife experience” to “become their source and basis for an understanding of the afterlife.”

Though the resolution did not list specific book or movie titles, it seemed to describe works like “The Boy Who Came Back from Heaven,” “90 Minutes in Heaven” by Don Piper and “Heaven Is for Real” by Todd Burpo along with its companion movie released last year by Sony Pictures.

The resolution affirmed “the sufficiency of biblical revelation over subjective experiential explanations to guide one’s understanding of the truth about heaven and hell.”

Osborne, who was a member of the SBC Resolutions Committee that proposed the resolution to the convention, believes the apostle Paul’s statement in 2 Corinthians 12:4 that he heard things during a vision of “paradise” which “a man is not allowed to speak” precludes anyone from describing a vision of heaven not in the Bible.

Although Scripture says much about where believers will live following Christ’s second coming, it contains far less information about what occurs between the time a follower of Jesus dies and the Lord’s second coming, Osborne, pastor of Central Baptist Church in College Station, said. Still, God has given humans all the information they need about what happens after death, he added.

Theologians refer to the condition of believers between their deaths and Christ’s return as “the intermediate state.”

“There are several things I know about the intermediate state,” Osborne said, citing John 14:2-4. “Number one, Jesus comes and gets me and takes me there…. There’s obviously a place that He’s built for me there and [I will go there] immediately upon my death.”

Osborne speculated that the lack of information in Scripture about the intermediate state may be one factor driving well-meaning believers to study books about near-death experiences for clues.

“The lack of explanation in the Scripture causes people to create things that are not true,” Osborne said.

Matthew Arbo, another member of the Resolutions Committee that proposed the statement on books about heaven, told BP Christians should not worry about what will happen to them during the intermediate state even though it is “kind of a mystery.”

“We have the word from Jesus on the cross, ‘This day you will be with me in paradise,'” Arbo, assistant professor of biblical and theological studies at Oklahoma Baptist University, said. “We should just lay hold of that truth and trust that as God worked all things together for our good in our salvation and in our calling, so also He will do the same thing in our death.”

Jesus’ promise that the thief on the cross would be in paradise the day of his death (Luke 23:43) and Paul’s statement that “to be out of the body” is to be “at home with the Lord” (2 Corinthians 5:8) demonstrate that Christians’ souls will go to heaven immediately when they die, Arbo said. Believers’ bodies will remain in the grave until they are raised, perfected and reunited with their souls at Christ’s second coming, he noted.

The lack of detail in Scripture regarding the intermediate state should not drive believers to depend on fanciful portrayals in either secular or Christian media for information, Arbo said.

Books like Malarkey’s are “kind of an interesting juxtaposition to pop culture portrayals of death — vampire series, An American Horror Story — that are kind of morbid and nihilistic. They’re really bleak. And then you get these hits that aren’t quite so reductive and so defeating. It’s kind of understandable why somebody might fix onto that. There’s so very little that’s hopeful in pop culture today.”

David Roach is chief national correspondent for Baptist Press.
Reprinted from Baptist Press (www.baptistpress.com).
Baptist Press (BP) is the official news service of the Southern Baptist Convention and provides news to the 42 state Baptist papers. BP reports on missions, ministry and witness advanced through the Cooperative Program and on news related to Southern Baptists’ concerns nationally and globally.





In my opinion the amazing Robert Marshall near death experience account is the perfect opportunity for Baptists and Reform Theology Christians to take another look at their policy so far.


Please notice how seventy six year old Robert Marshall doesn't seem to get tired but instead he wants to talk and talk and talk about what Jesus did for him?














Oh.... while you are at it... you might want to take a look at "The Vision" that was shown to Pastor David Wilkerson back in 1973? Pastor David Wilkerson was shown that a massive "Super Church" was being raised up. I believe that this Super Church will embrace near death experience accounts.



The Vision - David Wilkerson - 1973​

 
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When in doubt, go to God's word in scripture if one cannot pray sincerely for guidance of the Holy Spirit.
 
When in doubt, go to God's word in scripture if one cannot pray sincerely for guidance of the Holy Spirit.

I agree. In 1990 when I began to study these near death experience accounts I could not ignore what the Apostle Paul reported in 2 Corinthians 12.

It is not expedient for me doubtless to glory. I will come to visions and revelations of the Lord.

2;I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven.

3;And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;)

4;How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.

5;Of such an one will I glory: yet of myself I will not glory, but in mine infirmities.


 
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