Is Israel the Same as South Africa?

[Hoffstra]

Israel offered to allow back 100,000 Palestinian refugees before and they can do it again.

Just because they did it before does not mean that they'll want to try it again - nor are they obliged to.

they offered to take back 100,000 refugees back in the early 1950s.

if they could take back 100,000 then...they can certainly take back 100,000 now.

it would be much easier to bring them in and care for them, and assimilate them now.

 

[Kondor3]

Israel offered to allow back 100,000 Palestinian refugees before and they can do it again.

Just because they did it before does not mean that they'll want to try it again - nor are they obliged to.

they offered to take back 100,000 refugees back in the early 1950s.

if they could take back 100,000 then...they can certainly take back 100,000 now.

it would be much easier to bring them in and care for them, and assimilate them now.

Whatever for?

 

[Hoffstra]

Whatever for?

for the same reason the Palestinians should pledge peace with Israel.

 

[toastman]

Israel also offered 97% of the West Bank to the Palestinians in 2000. Doesn't mean they'll do it again

 

[Kondor3]

Too much blood has flowed on both sides for the Right of Return to ever be operative again.

Intifada I and II, and scores of suicide bombings, and thousands of rockets fired indiscriminately upon Israeli population centers from both Lebanon and Gaza, and the retaliatory Gaza War, and a thousand and one other incidents of violence on both sides, have seen to that.

The two sides can never again trust each other, and should continue to be separated, for their own safety's sake and peace of mind and emotional well-being.

And, because they must remain separated, and because the Palestinians have forevermore - by their behavior - discarded their legacy negotiating point of Right-of-Return, the Palestinians will continue to attack the Israelis for generations to come, if the Israelis are foolish enough to allow them to remain within such close proximity and easy striking distance.

This requires the removal of the Palestinians beyond the reach of their cheap home-made and bargain-basement rocketry, and so that the Israelis have more time to detect and respond to launches in the future, in the event that Palestinian rockets continue to fall upon Israel from more distant adjacent countrysides.

This is a survival requirement of the Israelis - a difficult but necessary 'us or them' decision forced upon them by six decades and more of bloodthirsty behaviors on the part of the Palestinians and their ethnic brethren in nearby countries.

Why should it be the Palestinians that are moved, rather than the Israelis?

Because the Israelis now occupy an overwhelming majority of the old land formerly known as the unincorporated province of Palestine, and because possession is nine-tenths of the law, and because the Israelis are much stronger, and impossible now to move; leaving the far weaker Palestinians as the only viable candidates for such a move.

In the end, like the Sudatenland Germans of Czechoslovakia or the East Prussian Germans after the defeat of the Axis of WWII - and in lands under control of the victorious Allies - just like the defeated Germans - and just like the massive shifts of Hindus and Muslims as India and Pakistan prepared to separate... the defeated Palestinians will be uprooted and moved elsewhere, to live happier lives alongside their ethnic brethren and co-religionists in other nearby countries.

It doesn't matter what label one uses in discussing such en masse population shifts.

The present state of affairs must be brought to an end, and that fairly soon, as history measures time.

Every so often - in an otherwise impossible set of circumstances and deadlock - in order to cut such a Gordian Knot - massive relocations of populations are necessary.

In all likelihood, the Palestinians represent the next sad but all-too-necessary exercise along those lines.

 

[Hoffstra]

..This requires the removal of the Palestinians beyond the reach of their cheap home-made and bargain-basement rocketry, and so that the Israelis have more time to detect and respond to launches in the future, in the event that Palestinian rockets continue to fall upon Israel from more distant adjacent countrysides.

This is a survival requirement of the Israelis - a difficult but necessary 'us or them' decision forced upon them by six decades and more of bloodthirsty behaviors on the part of the Palestinians and their ethnic brethren in nearby countries.

Why should it be the Palestinians that are moved, rather than the Israelis?

Because the Israelis now occupy an overwhelming majority of the old land formerly known as the unincorporated province of Palestine, and because possession is nine-tenths of the law, and because the Israelis are much stronger, and impossible now to move; leaving the far weaker Palestinians as the only viable candidates for such a move.

In the end, like the Sudatenland Germans of Czechoslovakia or the East Prussian Germans after the defeat of the Axis of WWII - and in lands under control of the victorious Allies - just like the defeated Germans - and just like the massive shifts of Hindus and Muslims as India and Pakistan prepared to separate... the defeated Palestinians will be uprooted and moved elsewhere, to live happier lives alongside their ethnic brethren and co-religionists in other nearby countries...

It is very sad when children of the Holocaust seek to act just like Nazis.

The 6 Million roll in their graves when they see statements like this from Jews.

 

[Hoffstra]

Israel also offered 97% of the West Bank to the Palestinians in 2000. Doesn't mean they'll do it again

You know very well that this is a total lie.

Israel offered much less than 97% of the West Bank and Arafat was right to refuse such a horrible deal.

 

[Kondor3]

"...It is very sad when children of the Holocaust seek to act just like Nazis..."

I was not aware that the Czechs nor Poles (who drove-out ethnic Germans) nor the Indians nor Pakistanis (who both forcibly shifted population elements) could be classified as Nazis.

There were no Extermination Camps nor Gas Chambers nor Cremation Pits at the end of the line for those ethnic Germans and Hindus and Muslims, and there will be no such things at the end of the line for Palestinians, either, if-and-when Eviction Day ever comes.

"...The 6 Million roll in their graves when they see statements like this from Jews."

They would roll in their graves even longer and harder if their 6,000,000 -some-odd descendants and surviving fellow Jews were overrun in Israel and drowned in the Mediterranean and the dream of a Restored Israel hacked to death on its shores.

Somehow, methinks not.

Faux analogy and over-dramatization by a pro-Palestinian advocate and sympathizer.

Don't shoot the messenger.

I tell you what is needed in order for there to be long-lasting peace.

There is no very little chance of any other solution succeeding.

I show you the future.

 

[Hoffstra]

They would roll in their graves even longer and harder if their 6,000,000 -some-odd descendants and surviving fellow Jews were overrun in Israel and drowned in the Mediterranean and the dream of a Restored Israel hacked to death on its shores.

Somehow, methinks not.

Faux analogy and over-dramatization by a pro-Palestinian advocate and sympathizer.

Don't shoot the messenger.

I tell you what is needed in order for there to be long-lasting peace.

There is no very little chance of any other solution succeeding.

I show you the future.

The future will not be your Nazi dream.

If you try to commit another Nakba, you will not see the Arabs of Palestine forced out of their homelands, but the annihilation of the State of Israel.

There are only two possible options: the two state solution or Palestine turns back to sand.

 

[Kondor3]

"...The future will not be your Nazi dream..."

Nothing 'Nazi' about it.

Since WWII...

The Czechs have undertaken a mass-shift of ethnic populations in order to maintain the peace...

The Poles had undertaken a mass-shift of ethnic populations in order to maintain the peace...

The Indians have undertaken a mass-shift of ethnic populations in order to maintain the peace...

The Pakistanis have undertaken a mass-shift of ethnic populations in order to maintain the peace...

If the Israelis decide to do the same, then it will happen...

And it is becoming increasingly clear to anyone with a head for macro-level survival strategies that such a shift of Palestinians is becoming increasingly necessary and likely...

"...If you try to commit another Nakba, you will not see the Arabs of Palestine forced out of their homelands, but the annihilation of the State of Israel..."

Brave words, my little Internet Jihadist.

The Arab-Muslim neighbors of Israel - Egypt, Syria, Jordan, Lebanon, and Iraq - with logistics and financial and manpower support from all over the Muslim world - have tried to kill the State of Israel three different times... 1948, 1967 and 1973...

And they've had their butts kicked all three times... badly... to their eternal shame, and to the surprise and general amusement of much of the rest of the world...

And all of that before the Israelis developed a nuclear arsenal with highly effective mid-range delivery systems...

Metaphorically speaking - as a condemnation of efficiency and competency...

Most Muslim-Arab armies could not find their butts with both hands in a well-lit room surrounded by mirrors, and most Muslim-Arab general staffs pee their pants at the very thought of war with Israel.

No. They've tried and failed three times. Three times is enough for them. There is no metaphorical Arab Cavalry coming over the hill to your rescue this time. Your Muslim-Arab brethren have largely abandoned you and fenced you off and don't even want to take you in themselves, although they'll grudgingly send you a few billions here and there for appearances' sake.

There is no Mighty Army of United Islam coming to your rescue, nor to burn Israel down to the ground, in the event that they decide to expel the Palestinians from the West Bank and Gaza, as now seems increasingly likely; given the 65-year-old stalemate and an increasing sense of urgency on the part of the Israelis to complete the process of securing the lands and borders of a restored Eretz Yisrael in order to secure their interior and their people.

"...There are only two possible options: the two state solution..."

The two-state solution is now dead.

You have been suicide-bombing and rocket-bombing innocent Israelis for far too long for them to ever trust you again, and...

You do not have sufficient land-mass remaining in order to construct and sustain a viable State of your own. You are going to have to leave and live someplace else, I'm afraid.

You are now a Failed State That Never Was... a dream that ended-up as stillborn.

"...or Palestine turns back to sand."

Good luck in doing that yourselves, because nobody else is coming to help you on any kind of scale that might swing the balance in your favor.

This is doubly true because, nowadays, the US has Israel's back, in the event that they ever get into real trouble on the battlefield.

The entire Muslim-Arab combined military is not on a par with Israel, and they would only be able to bring a fraction of that to bear upon Israel at any given time.

And, if the combined militaries of Islam are not up to the challenge of tackling Israel, I can assure you that they are not up to the challenge of Israel backed by combat forces of the United States... on whatever scale is required to tip the scales back in favor of our friends.

I understand your emotional investment in the cause of your brethren (or you own folks?).

You need to understand that the Arab Cavalry is not coming over the hill to rescue you this time.

You are now largely and in the main - on your own now.

And you are not up to the challenge.

Consequently, if Israel (as seems likely) concludes that it is time to expel the Palestinians from the West Bank and Gaza, there is very little that you will be able to do to stop them.

And, given that your own behaviors have left them with very little choice other than to proceed, well, it seems clear that you would be better off packing-up and moving soon, before the shit begins to hit the fan, so that you and your family have a chance at a long and happy life someplace else, rather than dying on the barricades in a doomed and dying cause.

 

[Hoffstra]

nothing 'nazi' about it.

Since wwii...

The czechs have undertaken a mass-shift of ethnic populations in order to maintain the peace....

Never Again!!!!!!!!

 

[Kondor3]

A very cogent intellectual response to the logic previously served...

Although you are correct that the Jews will never again allow their people to be slaughtered...

Which, in the end, will be part of the reason why they are likely to expel you, to avoid such a thing in the future...

You are now alone...

And there is no Arab Cavalry coming over the hill to the Rescue...

But not to worry...

If the Israelis go through with it...

You're merely being kicked out...

Not slaughtered...

And you'll be much happier once you get out of those 65-year-old camps and shithole refugee towns, as you scatter to the four winds and migrate to the various surrounding countries of the region, to be assimilated into their better-established polities...

 

[theliq]

Too much blood has flowed on both sides for the Right of Return to ever be operative again.

Intifada I and II, and scores of suicide bombings, and thousands of rockets fired indiscriminately upon Israeli population centers from both Lebanon and Gaza, and the retaliatory Gaza War, and a thousand and one other incidents of violence on both sides, have seen to that.

The two sides can never again trust each other, and should continue to be separated, for their own safety's sake and peace of mind and emotional well-being.

And, because they must remain separated, and because the Palestinians have forevermore - by their behavior - discarded their legacy negotiating point of Right-of-Return, the Palestinians will continue to attack the Israelis for generations to come, if the Israelis are foolish enough to allow them to remain within such close proximity and easy striking distance.

This requires the removal of the Palestinians beyond the reach of their cheap home-made and bargain-basement rocketry, and so that the Israelis have more time to detect and respond to launches in the future, in the event that Palestinian rockets continue to fall upon Israel from more distant adjacent countrysides.

This is a survival requirement of the Israelis - a difficult but necessary 'us or them' decision forced upon them by six decades and more of bloodthirsty behaviors on the part of the Palestinians and their ethnic brethren in nearby countries.

Why should it be the Palestinians that are moved, rather than the Israelis?

Because the Israelis now occupy an overwhelming majority of the old land formerly known as the unincorporated province of Palestine, and because possession is nine-tenths of the law, and because the Israelis are much stronger, and impossible now to move; leaving the far weaker Palestinians as the only viable candidates for such a move.

In the end, like the Sudatenland Germans of Czechoslovakia or the East Prussian Germans after the defeat of the Axis of WWII - and in lands under control of the victorious Allies - just like the defeated Germans - and just like the massive shifts of Hindus and Muslims as India and Pakistan prepared to separate... the defeated Palestinians will be uprooted and moved elsewhere, to live happier lives alongside their ethnic brethren and co-religionists in other nearby countries.

It doesn't matter what label one uses in discussing such en masse population shifts.

The present state of affairs must be brought to an end, and that fairly soon, as history measures time.

Every so often - in an otherwise impossible set of circumstances and deadlock - in order to cut such a Gordian Knot - massive relocations of populations are necessary.

In all likelihood, the Palestinians represent the next sad but all-too-necessary exercise along those lines.

It is not right that you say that Palestinians and Jews can never trust each other,completely untrue.....infact much good is being done in business,education and health ect.,between them.

Also Israel now trust the Germans today...the very people who tried to exterminate your race.

You put out a stall of Red Herrings so I have to pull you up on that discrepancy in your post above.

Come on Kondy you can do better than that.steve

 

[theliq]

A very cogent intellectual response to the logic previously served...

Although you are correct that the Jews will never again allow their people to be slaughtered...

Which, in the end, will be part of the reason why they are likely to expel you, to avoid such a thing in the future...

You are now alone...

And there is no Arab Cavalry coming over the hill to the Rescue...

But not to worry...

If the Israelis go through with it...

You're merely being kicked out...

Not slaughtered...

And you'll be much happier once you get out of those 65-year-old camps and shithole refugee towns, as you scatter to the four winds and migrate to the various surrounding countries of the region, to be assimilated into their better-established polities...

This is a silly post Kondy......The Jews are going nowhere and the Palestinians are going nowhere else but Palestine.They both have to compromise..that's it.steve

 

[Kondor3]

"It is not right that you say that Palestinians and Jews can never trust each other,completely untrue.....in fact much good is being done in business,education and health ect.,between them..."

I perceive that a Tipping Point was reached long ago in that respect, while you see it otherwise. Time will tell us which of the two perceptions was the more accurate.

"...Also Israel now trust the Germans today...the very people who tried to exterminate your race..."

Perhaps in another 65 years, with great distances separating them, as well, the Jews and Arabs of Palestine might reach such an understanding; however, they need both time and distance, with distance being the operative keyword in this particular exchange.

"...You put out a stall of Red Herrings so I have to pull you up on that discrepancy in your post above..."

You see Red Herrings.

I see Realistic Assessment.

Again, time will tell.

"...Come on Kondy you can do better than that.steve"

Actually, the concepts expressed above can stand or fall on their own merits.

If I've adequately expressed the concepts, then I'm content to let it be judged by others.

I'll mark you down as a "No"...

 

[Kondor3]

"...This is a silly post Kondy......The Jews are going nowhere and the Palestinians are going nowhere else but Palestine.They both have to compromise..that's it.steve"

You or I declaring it thus does not render it thus.

I have defined the problem: impasse or roadblock.

I have defined the security stakes: the survival of Israel with malevolent forces in its midst.

I have defined the alternative: land-deals, with the Israelis now unlikely to participate.

I have defined the only remaining means to break the impasse: relocation.

Whether that holds true over time and actually manifests is anybody's guess.

 

[Hoffstra]

This is a silly post Kondy......The Jews are going nowhere and the Palestinians are going nowhere else but Palestine.They both have to compromise..that's it.steve

he's just playing with nonesense dreams of committing genocide against the Arabs of Palestine.

he knows fully well that it will never happen.

 

[Hossfly]

Tinmore, Kondor is absolutely right. none of what you say has any relevance today.
Even if what you said was true, it would still not have any relevance . And you know that full well.

It does not take a majority to prevail... but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men. ~ Samuel Adams

Sam Adams wasn't likening revolutionaries to murdering terrorists, like Hamas. Now was he?

 

[Kondor3]

This is a silly post Kondy......The Jews are going nowhere and the Palestinians are going nowhere else but Palestine.They both have to compromise..that's it.steve

he's just playing with nonesense dreams of committing genocide against the Arabs of Palestine.

he knows fully well that it will never happen.

Feel free to continue deluding yourself in such terms...

This way, you won't have to worry about it until Eviction Day...

No skin off my nose...

 

[Hoffstra]

Feel free to continue deluding yourself in such terms...

This way, you won't have to worry about it until Eviction Day...

"Eviction Day"?

you're the one in a delusion.