Is Israel the Same as South Africa?

[theHawk]

What the **** does it matter what is "legal" as far as the territories goes?

Israel holds it. If the muslims don't like it, then take it back by force. So far they haven't.

Israel is hardly the only country to hold territory taken "illegally".

 

[theliq]

What the **** does it matter what is "legal" as far as the territories goes?

Israel holds it. If the muslims don't like it, then take it back by force. So far they haven't.

Israel is hardly the only country to hold territory taken "illegally".

Correct and you should know Hawk,America is another.

 

[theHawk]

What the **** does it matter what is "legal" as far as the territories goes?

Israel holds it. If the muslims don't like it, then take it back by force. So far they haven't.

Israel is hardly the only country to hold territory taken "illegally".

Correct and you should know Hawk,America is another.

That's my point. Every country at one point or another took land from other people.

 

[docmauser1]

Could you point out the document showing where Israel legally acquired any territory inside Palestine's international borders. I think I missed it.

So, who was that sheikh, shakh, emir, pasha, sultan, president, prime-minister of that "state of palestine" to have international borders? That info thoroughly we miss.

 

[theliq]

But, Tinnie, you believe the Arab version, which is very understandable. However, I think many of the posters and viewers appreciate the lessons that Rocco is giving us because it is obvious that he has been studying this issue a long time and if we all are honest, we will admit that we never studied this as in depth as he has. I think the viewers realize by now that you don't like to hear what he says, which also is understandable. I think the only thing that will make you happy is that if Israel ceases to exist, and the Arabs will be in charge of the entire territory which would be called the country of Palestine..

Indeed, he has the Israeli version down pat.

Sorry Rocco, nothing personal.

Tinnmore, you're being unrealistic as well as childlike. If you paid attention to Rocco you could pass 3d grade easily.

Really Hoss my friend...you are being somewhat disingenuous towards my friend Tinnie,you,the Rocc (who I enjoy his postings)and others...hark from the Israeli/Zionist song book which we all know is slanted.(kind word for often,Terrorist and Criminal Acts)

Some feel that 60 years of Murder,Repression and Vilification of the Palestinian People..MEANS NOTHING........IT DOES and it's spurious to say otherwise....you of all people know of the continued degregation sic of the Palestinians,I ,Tinnie and many others have explained this ad-nausum to you and others.

Despite all the negative situations the Palestinians have found themselves in,they more than anyone deserve "A PALESTINE" There is much similarity of the Jews and Palestinians in history.

steven........Shee's I like(love) you all but **** I'd like sometimes to crack your heads together,or as a friend would say..."Stick my Prick in your ears and **** some sense into you all"

Cut all the Shit and Soon Forward to a Solution....Palestinians have survived.....and like the Jews demand and rightly should have their own Country

 

[docmauser1]

...you are being somewhat disingenuous towards my friend Tinnie,you,the Rocc (who I enjoy his postings)and others...hark from the Israeli/Zionist song book which we all know is slanted.(kind word for often,Terrorist and Criminal Acts) Some feel that 60 years of Murder,Repression and Vilification of the Palestinian People..MEANS NOTHING........IT DOES and it's spurious to say otherwise....you of all people know of the continued degregation sic of the Palestinians,I ,Tinnie and many others have explained this ad-nausum to you and others.

Drivel.

 

[theliq]

...you are being somewhat disingenuous towards my friend Tinnie,you,the Rocc (who I enjoy his postings)and others...hark from the Israeli/Zionist song book which we all know is slanted.(kind word for often,Terrorist and Criminal Acts) Some feel that 60 years of Murder,Repression and Vilification of the Palestinian People..MEANS NOTHING........IT DOES and it's spurious to say otherwise....you of all people know of the continued degregation sic of the Palestinians,I ,Tinnie and many others have explained this ad-nausum to you and others.

Drivel.

Look Doc,I know you carry Tonnes of Guilt and a Big Chip on your shoulder but your DRIVEL is a reflection of you Sorry,Sad Mind.

Let Us All Pray For THE DOC

 

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore, et al,

Well, there are views on this. So, I thought I would drop a couple items.

P F Tinmore, et al,

I don't understand.

No they didn't.

(QUESTION)

Who didn't do what?

v/r
R

The U.N recognized Israel's declaration of independence inside the land allotted to them in the partition plan...

No they didn't.

(OBSERVATION)

Israel became a member of the United Nations on 11 May 1949]
The preamble to the resolution admitting Israel to United Nations membership specifically referred to Israel’s undertakings to implement General Assembly resolutions 181 (II) and 194 (III), the two resolutions that formed the centre of the Palestine issue in the United Nations:

“Having received the report of the Security Council on the application of Israel for membership in the United Nations,
“Noting that in the judgement of the Security Council, Israel is a peace-loving State and is able and willing to carry out the obligations contained in the Charter,
“Noting that the Security Council has recommended to the General Assembly that it admit Israel to membership in the United Nations,
“Noting furthermore the declaration by the State of Israel that it ‘unreservedly accepts the obligations of the United Nations Charter and undertakes to honour them from the day when it becomes a Member of the United Nations’,
“Recalling its resolutions of 29 November 1947 and 11 December 1948 and taking note of the declarations and explanations made by the representative of the Government of Israel before the ad hoc Political Committee in respect of the implementation of the
said resolutions,

“The General Assembly,

“Acting in discharge of its functions under Article 4 of the Charter and rule 125 of its rules of procedure,

“1. Decides that Israel is a peace-loving State which accepts the obligations contained in the Charter and is able and willing to carry out those obligations;

“2. Decides to admit Israel to membership in the United Nations.”​

Source: The Origins and Evolution of the Palestine Problem, 1917-1988,
United Nations, 1990, p. 144. 1

SOURCE: Page 13 - Chapter 2: The Partition Plan and the end of the British mandate

(COMMENT)

I am convinced, however, that it is possible at this stage to formulate a proposal which, if firmly approved and strongly backed by the General Assembly, would not be forcibly resisted by either side, confident as I am, of course, that the Security Council stands firm in its resolution of 15 July that military action shall not be employed by either party in the Palestine dispute. It cannot be ignored that the vast difference between now and last November is that a war has been started and stopped and that in the intervening months decisive events have occurred.

SEVEN BASIC PREMISES​

"3. The following seven basic premises form the basis for my conclusions:

Return to peace

"(a) Peace must return to Palestine and every feasible measure should be taken to ensure that hostilities will not be resumed and that harmonious relations between Arab and Jew will ultimately be restored.​

The Jewish State

"(b) A Jewish State called Israel exists in Palestine and there are no sound reasons for assuming that it will not continue to do so.​

Boundary determination

"(c) The boundaries of this new State must finally be fixed either by formal agreement between the parties concerned or failing that, by the United Nations.​

Continuous frontiers

"(d) Adherence to the principle of geographical homogeneity and integration, which should be the major objective of the boundary arrangements, should apply equally to Arab and Jewish territories, whose frontiers should not, therefore, be rigidly controlled by the territorial arrangements envisaged in the resolution of 29 November.​

SOURCE: 1949.I.13 31 December 1948

The United Nations Mediator on Palestine, Count Folke Bernadotte, recognized Israel.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[docmauser1]

...you are being somewhat disingenuous towards my friend Tinnie,you,the Rocc (who I enjoy his postings)and others...hark from the Israeli/Zionist song book which we all know is slanted.(kind word for often,Terrorist and Criminal Acts) Some feel that 60 years of Murder,Repression and Vilification of the Palestinian People..MEANS NOTHING........IT DOES and it's spurious to say otherwise....you of all people know of the continued degregation sic of the Palestinians,I ,Tinnie and many others have explained this ad-nausum to you and others.

Drivel.

Look Doc,I know you carry Tonnes of Guilt and a Big Chip on your shoulder but your DRIVEL is a reflection of you Sorry,Sad Mind. Let Us All Pray For THE DOC

Drivel.

 

[RoccoR]

theliq, et al,

You make a number of good points.

(kind word for often,Terrorist and Criminal Acts)

(COMMENT)

I'm not sure you heard this; but I'll say it again: Neither party has clean hands. But seriously, there is a history that you cannot deny. And it is not just Israel and the US that sees the Palestinian Jihadist and the Feday'een in this. It is documented in both the Covenant and the Charter. I would hope you are not denying this.

Additionally, I hope you are not suggesting that the PIJ and al-Qassam Brigades are not terrorist. The entire EU recognizes this.

I don't think anything was said, that isn't documented.

Some feel that 60 years of Murder,Repression and Vilification of the Palestinian People..MEANS NOTHING........IT DOES and it's spurious to say otherwise....you of all people know of the continued degregation sic of the Palestinians,I ,Tinnie and many others have explained this ad-nausum to you and others.

(COMMENT)

As is said, during that 60 years (not all of which has the West Bank and Gaza been under Occupation), the Palestinian established a history and an established pattern of behaviors. And as has been said: "Nothing can justify terrorism — ever. No grievance, no goal, no cause can excuse terrorist acts." (UN Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon)

If a Palestinian endorses Jihad and Armed Conflict, they are in effect, encouraging terrorist acts intended to be committed against other States or their citizens (counter (A/RES/60/288).

Despite all the negative situations the Palestinians have found themselves in,they more than anyone deserve "A PALESTINE" There is much similarity of the Jews and Palestinians in history.

(COMMENT)

I don't think anyone disagrees with this. The Partition Plan offered that opportunity and the Arab Palestinian and Arab League rejected the plan; opting for war (trial by combat) and lost.

Palestine's Declaration of Independence. It didn't go unnoticed.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[theliq]

Drivel.

Look Doc,I know you carry Tonnes of Guilt and a Big Chip on your shoulder but your DRIVEL is a reflection of you Sorry,Sad Mind. Let Us All Pray For THE DOC

Drivel.

Look Doc,I know you carry tonnes etc.,

Let Us All Drivel for the DOC

 

[toastman]

P F Tinmore, et al,

I don't understand.

No they didn't.

(QUESTION)

Who didn't do what?

v/r
R

The U.N recognized Israel's declaration of independence inside the land allotted to them in the partition plan...

No they didn't.

They became a full member of the UN one year after declaring independence. That's all the recognition they need, in my opinion

 

[toastman]

They offered 97% of the West Bank to the Palestinians in 2000 and 95% in 2008.

Hamas and many Gazans do't want peace, they want victory

Liar.

Israel was to hold the Jordan Valley for more than a decade under the 2000 offer.

giving the Palestinians much less than 97%.

Irrelevant, because when Arafat declined the offer , he said nothing about the Jordan Valley not being part of the deal.

 

[toastman]

P F Tinmore, et al,

Israeli Declaration of Independence and GA/RES/181(II).

You are good at documents, Rocco, but you have never posted one showing where Israel has ever legally acquired any territory inside Palestine's international borders.

Could you point out the document showing where Israel legally acquired any territory inside Palestine's international borders. I think I missed it.

(COMMENT)

There were no Palestinian Borders to consider. Israel was not created "inside Palestine's international borders." The Trust Territory was partitioned and Independence was declared under that boundaries allocated by the Partition Plan.

Most Respectfully,
R

v/r
R

Could you quote the passage where Israel acquired territory.[/QUOTE]

Could you quote where it says that Israel needs to 'acquire' territory from the Palestinians (even though they had no sovereignty over the land) in order for the land in which they declared Israel to be in in 1948 to be legit ?
Edit/Delete Message

 

[toastman]

P F Tinmore, et al,

The Palestinians are terrorists.

I'm sorry. I don't see how that relates to my question.

(COMMENT)

Your question was:

While Israel does not have any terrorist organizations today, the HoAP pledges to violate law:

"There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad."
"Armed struggle is the only way to liberate Palestine." ... ... ... the "Commando (Feday'ee) action constitutes the nucleus of the Palestinian popular liberation war."​

• Q: OK, so how is that applicable to the Palestinians? (P F Tinmore)

The list of terrorist acts is well documented. They have a complete history of past behaviors that is indisputable, internationally and territorially; against the sovereignty of the State of Israel, on the High Seas and actions involving air piracy. They also have a history of indiscriminate rocket fire.

Both the Izz al-Din al-Qassem (terrorist wing of Hamas) and PIJ (Palestinian Islamic Jihad) are designated terrorist groups by the EU. HAMAS supports and controls the Izz al-Din al-Qassem Brigade, and the PIJ freely operated from HAMAS controlled territory; and HAMAS provides safe havens.

Most Respectfully,
R

Without having to go back 40 years, what terrorist acts have the Palestinians committed.

They do not attack outside their own territory.

They do not terrorize their people to influence their government's policies.

They do not attack protected persons (commonly called civilians) as defined by the Fourth Geneva Convention.

So give me a few examples.

Very disgusting

 

[P F Tinmore]

P F Tinmore, et al,

And here is the circle I was telling you about.

P F Tinmore, et al,

Oh, I don't take it personally.


(COMMENT)

I suppose, if you search hard enough, you'll be able to find a Posting where I might have cited a pro-Israeli site. But 98% of the time, I use neutral citations and documents. Relative to this discussion (pertaining to Israeli Sovereignty or borders and Palestinian Terrorism), I have never used a pro-Israel approach or citation. I have used, almost exclusively, UN documents or official documents from a member of the Arab League or web site; and occasionally something from the open source media.

I'm not at all concerned that someone might challenge my integrity.

Most Respectfully,
R

I am not questioning your sources. I question the relevancy.

Your last UN link ( United Nations General Assembly Adopts Global Counter-Terrorism Strategy - United Nations Action to Counter Terrorism ) was about international terrorism. How does that apply to the Palestinians who have not attacked outside their own territory for 40 years?

(COMMENT)

You don't recognize Israel as an Independent sovereign state. You still think it is Palestine.

So we end the discussion here; as I said in Post # 686. You are following HAMAS and PNA doctrine.

Every State likewise has the duty to refrain from the threat or use of force to violate international lines of demarcation, such as armistice lines, established by or pursuant to an international agreement to which it is a party or which it is otherwise bound to respect. Nothing in the foregoing shall be construed as prejudicing the positions of the parties concerned with regard to the status and effects of such lines under their special regimes or as affecting their temporary character.

SOURCE: Rule of Law -----------> or -----------> General Assembly resolution 2625 (XXXV) of 24 October 1970

I think it depends on whether you read and understand the law, or, HAMAS. But any attack on Israel is "international." This is why the Palestinians need contained and quarantined.

Most Respectfully,
R

Rocco, you keep dancing around this issue. From your link:

The Jewish State

"(b) A Jewish State called Israel exists in Palestine and there are no sound reasons for assuming that it will not continue to do so.

Boundary determination

"(c) The boundaries of this new State must finally be fixed either by formal agreement between the parties concerned or failing that, by the United Nations.

SOURCE: 1949.I.13 31 December 1948

The "state" of Israel exists in Palestine. The only thing that can change that is a formal agreement between Israel and Palestine.

Until such an agreement is made, Israel will continue to sit inside Palestine on Palestinian land by military force.

Now explain how attacks on Israel can be considered international terrorism.

 

[toastman]

Where did you read that it can only change with a formal agreement with Palestine and Israel ?

 

[Hossfly]

Where did you read that it can only change with a formal agreement with Palestine and Israel ?

I think Tinmore has the rules of this game confused with the UN Resolutions.

Play Imagination: The Game, a free online game on Kongregate

 

[toastman]

I'm still waiting for an answer. I've been asking this question for months now.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Where did you read that it can only change with a formal agreement with Palestine and Israel ?

The Jewish State

"(b) A Jewish State called Israel exists in Palestine and there are no sound reasons for assuming that it will not continue to do so.

Boundary determination

"(c) The boundaries of this new State must finally be fixed either by formal agreement between the parties concerned or failing that, by the United Nations.

1949.I.13 of 31 December 1948

Please try to keep up.