Is banning same-sex marriage fair?

[dilloduck]

Like ejaculating into dilloduck's coffee, since we're asking stupid questions in this thread?

Seems only fair-----as long as everyone gets to do it.


(hold it----no fair----women can't do that--no one should be able to)

Female ejaculation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

sweet--bring it on

 

[Sky Dancer]

Everyone should be able to do anything that makes them feel good.

Why thank you.

 

[dilloduck]

Well that's a profound solution.

probably easier than getting the entire religious world to change.

But it is not the "entire religious world" that objects. It is the most powerful, organized, and most vocal among them. There are Christian and Jewish churches that support gender equality in marriage, and some that would perform the ceremony if it came with a valid license from the state. How does (and I know I'm not supposed to here, sorry Mani) this preference for the wants of powerful church lobbies not fly in the face of establishment?

because there are poweful union lobbies. The are powerful racist lobbies. There are powerful corporate lobbies etc etc

 

[Sky Dancer]

Well that's a profound solution.

probably easier than getting the entire religious world to change.

But it is not the "entire religious world" that objects. It is the most powerful, organized, and most vocal among them. There are Christian and Jewish churches that support gender equality in marriage, and some that would perform the ceremony if it came with a valid license from the state. How does (and I know I'm not supposed to here, sorry Mani) this preference for the wants of powerful church lobbies not fly in the face of establishment?

It's not the entire religous world that objects, I agree. Opposition to marriage equality comes from the LDS in Utah, the RCC, Christian Coalition, Family Research Council, Focus on the Family, Coral Ridge Ministeries, and a number of other 'megachurches'.

Missionaries of hate: American Architects of Uganda's anti-gay bill
http://glaadblog.org/2010/05/24/missionaries-of-hate-american-architects-of-ugandas-anti-gay-bill/

 

[dilloduck]

probably easier than getting the entire religious world to change.

But it is not the "entire religious world" that objects. It is the most powerful, organized, and most vocal among them. There are Christian and Jewish churches that support gender equality in marriage, and some that would perform the ceremony if it came with a valid license from the state. How does (and I know I'm not supposed to here, sorry Mani) this preference for the wants of powerful church lobbies not fly in the face of establishment?

It's not the entire religous world that objects, I agree. Opposition to marriage equality comes from the LDS in Utah, the RCC, Family Research Council, Focus on the Family, Coral Ridge Ministeries, and a number of other 'megachurches'.

It is their right to do so.

 

[Madeline]

Perhaps, but it is not their right to claim they represent most christians or most Americans. They don't have a right to lie.

 

[dilloduck]

Perhaps, but it is not their right to claim they represent most christians or most Americans. They don't have a right to lie.

No right to lie? Now you are really heading into absurdoland. Of course they have a right to lie.

 

[Sky Dancer]

But it is not the "entire religious world" that objects. It is the most powerful, organized, and most vocal among them. There are Christian and Jewish churches that support gender equality in marriage, and some that would perform the ceremony if it came with a valid license from the state. How does (and I know I'm not supposed to here, sorry Mani) this preference for the wants of powerful church lobbies not fly in the face of establishment?

It's not the entire religous world that objects, I agree. Opposition to marriage equality comes from the LDS in Utah, the RCC, Family Research Council, Focus on the Family, Coral Ridge Ministeries, and a number of other 'megachurches'.

It is their right to do so.

And it's my right to oppose them.

 

[dilloduck]

All this discussion about the prop 8 ruling got me thinking about this from a very simple perspective. Is it fair to deny marriage to same-sex couples?

If you can, for the purposes of this discussion please do not introduce any arguments related to the Constitution, rights, or anything else of a legal nature.

It's a very simple philosophical question:

Is it fair to deny marriage to same-sex couples?

Why? Why not?



PS: Please know that declaring fair ain't got nothin' to do with it may contain some truth, but also betrays the author's implicit belief that it is not fair.

It's fair in the respect that NO one gets everything they want. How many people in this world have accepted that fact already and moved on ? Victimhood is a pitiful way to spend one's life.

 

[Sky Dancer]

All this discussion about the prop 8 ruling got me thinking about this from a very simple perspective. Is it fair to deny marriage to same-sex couples?

If you can, for the purposes of this discussion please do not introduce any arguments related to the Constitution, rights, or anything else of a legal nature.

It's a very simple philosophical question:

Is it fair to deny marriage to same-sex couples?

Why? Why not?



PS: Please know that declaring fair ain't got nothin' to do with it may contain some truth, but also betrays the author's implicit belief that it is not fair.

It's fair in the respect that NO one gets everything they want. How many people in this world have accepted that fact already and moved on ? Victimhood is a pitiful way to spend one's life.

A victim would be someone who accepted second class status.

 

[dilloduck]

It's not the entire religous world that objects, I agree. Opposition to marriage equality comes from the LDS in Utah, the RCC, Family Research Council, Focus on the Family, Coral Ridge Ministeries, and a number of other 'megachurches'.

It is their right to do so.

And it's my right to oppose them.

I know---totally unable to sacrifice lower order freedoms for higher order freedoms. You prefer to piss and moan about people who think differently than you instead of enjoying what you have.

 

[dilloduck]

All this discussion about the prop 8 ruling got me thinking about this from a very simple perspective. Is it fair to deny marriage to same-sex couples?

If you can, for the purposes of this discussion please do not introduce any arguments related to the Constitution, rights, or anything else of a legal nature.

It's a very simple philosophical question:

Is it fair to deny marriage to same-sex couples?

Why? Why not?



PS: Please know that declaring fair ain't got nothin' to do with it may contain some truth, but also betrays the author's implicit belief that it is not fair.

It's fair in the respect that NO one gets everything they want. How many people in this world have accepted that fact already and moved on ? Victimhood is a pitiful way to spend one's life.

A victim would be someone who accepted second class status.

no--a victim is convinced they should have everything they want and when they don't they blame others.

 

[Sky Dancer]

It's fair in the respect that NO one gets everything they want. How many people in this world have accepted that fact already and moved on ? Victimhood is a pitiful way to spend one's life.

A victim would be someone who accepted second class status.

no--a victim is convinced they should have everything they want and when they don't they blame others.

I am happy that my marriage continues to be legal. I will advocate for marriage equality to be the law of the land.

 

[Sky Dancer]

It is their right to do so.

And it's my right to oppose them.

I know---totally unable to sacrifice lower order freedoms for higher order freedoms. You prefer to piss and moan about people who think differently than you instead of enjoying what you have.

I enjoy being married. I'd like to stay legal.

 

[Barb]

It is their right to do so.

And it's my right to oppose them.

I know---totally unable to sacrifice lower order freedoms for higher order freedoms. You prefer to piss and moan about people who think differently than you instead of enjoying what you have.

And that statement can be turned right back to those who are apparently not enjoying what they have, and instead focus on denying others the enjoyment of same.

 

[Barb]

It's fair in the respect that NO one gets everything they want. How many people in this world have accepted that fact already and moved on ? Victimhood is a pitiful way to spend one's life.

A victim would be someone who accepted second class status.

no--a victim is convinced they should have everything they want and when they don't they blame others.

I don't think equal protection under the law is so much to demand. Would you settle for less? Why should any one else?

 

[Sky Dancer]

And it's my right to oppose them.

I know---totally unable to sacrifice lower order freedoms for higher order freedoms. You prefer to piss and moan about people who think differently than you instead of enjoying what you have.

And that statement can be turned right back to those who are apparently not enjoying what they have, and instead focus on denying others the enjoyment of same.

dilloduck likes to piss and moan about gays and lesbians interest in marriage equality.

 

[Barb]

probably easier than getting the entire religious world to change.

But it is not the "entire religious world" that objects. It is the most powerful, organized, and most vocal among them. There are Christian and Jewish churches that support gender equality in marriage, and some that would perform the ceremony if it came with a valid license from the state. How does (and I know I'm not supposed to here, sorry Mani) this preference for the wants of powerful church lobbies not fly in the face of establishment?

because there are poweful union lobbies. The are powerful racist lobbies. There are powerful corporate lobbies etc etc

The question was, how does acquiescence to these powerful churches not fly in the face of establishment? There is supposed to be no preference to one religion (or sect, etc) in the making of our laws, or protection of those laws.

 

[Barb]

I know---totally unable to sacrifice lower order freedoms for higher order freedoms. You prefer to piss and moan about people who think differently than you instead of enjoying what you have.

And that statement can be turned right back to those who are apparently not enjoying what they have, and instead focus on denying others the enjoyment of same.

dilloduck likes to piss and moan about gays and lesbians interest in marriage equality.

I think he just likes to pick a point and argue it. Clearly we disagree on this one. Could be an interesting pissing match though.

 

[manifold]

It's not fair for anyone to tell anyone what they can or cannot do

So now you're implying that telling people they can't commit murder or robbery isn't fair???





Seriously dude, quit while you're...


oh wait, nevermind.

but they passionately want to !

The fact remains that it's fair to restrict passions that involve imposing said passion upon a non-consenting person, such as in the murder example.

No such element is present in same-sex marriage.

But at least we agree that banning same-sex marriage isn't fair.