Iraq finally getting it's very own Ayatollah!

[rdean]

Iraq: Preparing for the Return of Moqtada al-Sadr - TIME

Moqtada al-Sadr may be Washington's biggest nightmare in Iraq, but the nationalist cleric who led an insurgency against U.S. troops and is currently studying in Iran remains a hero to millions of his Shi'ite followers. That fact has allowed him to use the democratic process to return to center stage of Iraqi politics: When Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki unveiled his new cabinet on Dec. 21, Sadr's lieutenants were awarded eight of the 29 positions announced — a reflection of the fact that Maliki would not be premier without Sadr's support.

From the Iraqi Constitution:

Article 2:

First: Islam is the official religion of the State and it is a fundamental source of legislation:

A. No law that contradicts the established provisions of Islam may be established.

It was only a matter of time. When the US supported Iraqi Constitution was unveiled, we knew Iraq was moving towards an Iranian style of government.

For those that say, "We can't tell Iraqis how to govern", when we invaded, we did exactly that.

 

[rdean]

The think the old Ayatollah doesn't look this mean. People still died.

 

[Ropey]

He will come back to take over Iraq if Iran has its way...

 

[ekrem]

Wouldn't the Americans have invaded Iraq, he would not have shot Americans.
Because he has shot Americans, he is the "bad guy" for the Americans.
Others see it as it is:
A man fighting invaders, caring for his own country.
You could also call him Patriot.

 

[Trajan]

Wouldn't the Americans have invaded Iraq, he would not have shot Americans.
Because he has shot Americans, he is the "bad guy" for the Americans.
Others see it as it is:
A man fighting invaders, caring for his own country.
You could also call him Patriot.

thx for the moral relativist blurb. I guess offing your political/religious opponents is all good to, it fits in with that patriotism thing.

I personally think this is a big mistake. But malicki has boxed himself in.

 

[Revere]

Do you "care for your country" if you want to put it under the rule of a medieval religion?

 

[hjmick]

Oooo... Where can I get one?

 

[ekrem]

Do you "care for your country" if you want to put it under the rule of a medieval religion?

It turned out, that people like Al-Sadr wouldn't welcome the US with flowers as Rumsfeld indicated whilst fabricating a war.

The rest is just simple propaganda by USA like calling him radical cleric, bad Ayatollah and such. Would Al-Sadr had kissed US boots like others did (Allawi, Kurds), then Al-Sadr would have been portrayed as a true Democrat by US propaganda machinery.

Doesn't change a fact, that his resistance is and was legitimate.

 

[ekrem]

The United Nations Secretary-General Kofi Annan has told the BBC the US-led invasion of Iraq was an illegal act that contravened the UN charter.
BBC NEWS | Middle East | Iraq war illegal, says Annan

So practically it means, that Al-Sadr's activities against the occupation are legitimate.

 

[Baruch Menachem]

The issue was that Saddam was a dangerous jerk who was oppressing everyone. No one had a choice but Saddam.

Now the Iraqis have a choice. It is not my first choice.... Not even within the range of my first 10,000 choices, but it is their country and they get to run it the way that they want as long as they are not a nucince to the rest of the region/world.

Saying that Iraq is getting an ayatollah is weird. It is like saying Ireland is getting an archbishop. Just because the civil authority does not recognize the religious authority, (like in Ireland) does not mean that someone does not have the job.

And if there is an Ayatollah in Iraq, it is cool that it be an Iraqi, rather than an Iranian. In pretty much the same way that it is kind of cool that the archbishop of Dublin be Irish rather than Italian.

 

[RoccoR]

rdean, et al,

This was a major mistake on the Diplomatic side of the house. Ambassador Zalmay Khalilzad, the former US Ambo to Afghanistan and PNAC Member, was the US Lead on helping the Interim Government create the Constitution.

Iraq: Preparing for the Return of Moqtada al-Sadr - TIME

Moqtada al-Sadr may be Washington's biggest nightmare in Iraq, but the nationalist cleric who led an insurgency against U.S. troops and is currently studying in Iran remains a hero to millions of his Shi'ite followers. That fact has allowed him to use the democratic process to return to center stage of Iraqi politics: When Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki unveiled his new cabinet on Dec. 21, Sadr's lieutenants were awarded eight of the 29 positions announced — a reflection of the fact that Maliki would not be premier without Sadr's support.

From the Iraqi Constitution:

Article 2:

First: Islam is the official religion of the State and it is a fundamental source of legislation:

A. No law that contradicts the established provisions of Islam may be established​

.​

It was only a matter of time. When the US supported Iraqi Constitution was unveiled, we knew Iraq was moving towards an Iranian style of government.

For those that say, "We can't tell Iraqis how to govern", when we invaded, we did exactly that.

(COMMENT)

The most successful Republic any where close to ours, that is 99% Islamic, was Turkey. Ambassador Khalilzad should have used that as a model. But instead, he used a model closer to Syria.

The Iranians think this is a fatal flaw in the reconstruction effort. By making "Legislation" dependent on a Constitutional Source (ISLAM), they effectively created a non-ssecular state where there wasn't one before, more similar to Iran. I was there at the time, and just couldn't believe that we were that dumb.

In any event, all it will take is for a Radical Islamic Leader to gain power (sometime in the future), and we will have a nation exactly like what we went to prevent.

The Iranians are not stupid, they know that with a US hold on Iraq, we would not allow such a thing. So, they have been very patient and trying to gradually influence conditions that reduce the US footprint. They are grooming a religious leadership to begin a power climb up the ladder. Eventually, they will have it all. It is just a matter of time. When people speak to the fact that the US "FAILED" in Iraq, they are talking about the end-state that will emerge. The most probable end-state is one that will center on Constitutional Rule, and that will be based on Islam; courtesy of the United States.

By 2014, the US footprint will be militarily insignificant. The state of the US Economy will not permit a second effort Regionally. Thus, the US essentially set the stage for the extension of the Islamic State.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[rdean]

Do you "care for your country" if you want to put it under the rule of a medieval religion?

I don't know. Ask the Republican Conservative Right. You know, those guys who want to put prayer into public schools, the ones who want to put "mysticism" into science. The ones who want to make "gay" a crime.

Ask those guys. Their answer should be "illuminating" to say the least.

 

[rdean]

The issue was that Saddam was a dangerous jerk who was oppressing everyone. No one had a choice but Saddam.

Now the Iraqis have a choice. It is not my first choice.... Not even within the range of my first 10,000 choices, but it is their country and they get to run it the way that they want as long as they are not a nucince to the rest of the region/world.

Saying that Iraq is getting an ayatollah is weird. It is like saying Ireland is getting an archbishop. Just because the civil authority does not recognize the religious authority, (like in Ireland) does not mean that someone does not have the job.

And if there is an Ayatollah in Iraq, it is cool that it be an Iraqi, rather than an Iranian. In pretty much the same way that it is kind of cool that the archbishop of Dublin be Irish rather than Italian.

Do the Irish have written into their constitution that "Christianity" is the "National Religion" and that "all legislation is to be based on Christianity"?

Full Text of Iraqi Constitution - washingtonpost.com

Article 2:

First: Islam is the official religion of the State and it is a fundamental source of legislation:

A. No law that contradicts the established provisions of Islam may be established.

 

[Baruch Menachem]

Ireland was set up as a Catholic state as opposed the protestant 'opressor.'

the fact that Islam is in the front like that means that for many, there is a doubt.

Like I said, this is not what I would want for Iraq, but I am not an Iraqi, and I don't and shouldn't have a say in the matter.

The people of Iraq get to decide how the government of Iraq should be run. Provided of course, they are not a threat to anyone else.

 

[Butrus Rami]

Sayyid Muqtada al-Sadr , the son of Muhammad has just now returned to Najaf.

Before removing his head from his body, The butcher Saddams hangman said to the butcher

"long live Muqtada al-Sadr "

Saddam the butchers last words were "muqtada".

Ali al-Sistani and the only true son of Muhammad are now joined. The greed of the interveners has caused this.

The blood will run deeper . The unclean should leave.