Iraq Fatigue

[Annie]

Thought this very interesting:

http://instapundit.com/archives/016513.php

July 12, 2004
AUSTIN BAY SENDS THIS EMAIL FROM IRAQ:


I must respond to those who "want a breather" or wish "to take time out" from the war.

There is no time out in war. Occasionally soldiers get R&R, but that means someone else is pulling guard duty or running patrols. I see Mickey Kaus says "we need a break" and Peggy Noonan is worried that the American people want a breather because current history is too "dramatic." I read Peggy's essay and I get the distinct impression her brilliantly conceived column springs from her own personal weariness-- maybe I'm wrong, but she explicitly tells us she's on vacation. Over at andrewsullivan.com, Andrew Sullivan wrote (linking to Noonan) that he had expressed similar thoughts ("Americans are drained"). I appreciate their openness and honesty; I hope they'll appreciate mine. I enjoy thoroughly Sullivan's commentary, and I'm certain he would be the first to say he can climb in his Cape Cod hammock and blog because soldiers put on their helmets and slog-- and don't quit. Perceptive, honest Americans like Noonan, Sullivan, and Kaus understand that quite well. I make the point as a reminder, a useful reminder. Believe me, the hammock is far preferable to the helmet. I would love to be in my hammock in the Texas Hill Country right now (95 degrees in Austin is far cooler than 119 degrees in Baghdad). But this is helmet time. We --the lot of us, all Americans-- are a long haul war, a constant test of will requiring consistent, insistent effort.

I see that effort given every day here in Iraq. Check the photo you ran of those two young soldiers from the 81st Brigade (Washington State National Guard). I snapped it, at sunset, right after they had returned from a patrol. I see the same vignette every morning, every evening. The smiles break out despite the fatigue-- and then the troops buckle up and do it again. Blood, sweat, toil and tears: that's not simply Churchillian poetry, that's the price of victory, and it's the product of spine. This peculiar war will take years to win, long, focused years of trial and error, mistake and success, but a breather, a time out?

"Time out" is a mirage of the chattering class. Credit Peggy's and Andrew's antennae for culling out the driving emotional angst behind the chatter. Hate to say it, but the call for "time out" Noonan fears may be another case of Baby Boomers who can't separate Hollywood war from the real thing. Hollywood wars end in a couple of hours. Real earthly hells have no intermission. In current GI lingo, "the enemy has a vote" (the enemy can exercise his will, and act). Take a break and the enemy votes. On 9/11 our enemy went to the polls. We were either going to work, eating breakfast, or lollygagging in bed.

Before I head off to a meeting, let me play history prof for a second. I see several analogs between 1944 and 2004. Fact is, I started a column on that subject before I left for Iraq, but long nights on the ranges at Ft Hood spinning up for deployment left it a sketch. Imagine calling for "Time Out" right after D-Day, which broke Fortress Europe, or during Saipan, which broke the Japanese "inner ring" island defense (many in the Japanese military thought we'd never pay the price to break it). Hey, FDR, we've made the deep offensive penetration, can we take a break? The analogy has weaknesses, as do all historical comparisons. That being said, I think we're in the strategic exploitation phase of this war, a hard, difficult, prolonged exploitation phase, one that requires more hammers and bricks than it does rifles and bombs.

However, we're winning. We can't quit.


Indeed.


posted at 09:03 AM by Glenn Reynolds

Who is Austin Bay?

http://www.strategypage.com/onpoint/articles/2004518.asp

http://www.austinbay.net/about.html

 

[freeandfun1]

I just spent the weekend with my uncle that is 85 years young. He served in the 45th Thunderbird Division in WWII. When we get together all he loves to do is tell stories about the funny side of the war. He was in all five major landings in Europe and spent 511 days in actual combat. I read myself his military records that show he was in combat for 511 days. Now that is 511 days of combat mind you. Not 511 days in the theatre or in the military but 511 days of beach landings and combat from North Africa, to Anzio to D-Day.

I feel for our soldiers, but perhaps they need to keep things in perspective.

 

[Annie]

Originally posted by freeandfun1
I just spent the weekend with my uncle that is 85 years young. He served in the 45th Thunderbird Division in WWII. When we get together all he loves to do is tell stories about the funny side of the war. He was in all five major landings in Europe and spent 511 days in actual combat. I read myself his military records that show he was in combat for 511 days. Now that is 511 days of combat mind you. Not 511 days in the theatre or in the military but 511 days of beach landings and combat from North Africa, to Anzio to D-Day.

I feel for our soldiers, but perhaps they need to keep things in perspective.

Can you elaborate a bit, I'm confused where you are going with this. Seems to me the soldier in this case, has the perspective, it's the pundits that are off. You're point on perspective?

 

[freeandfun1]

Originally posted by Kathianne
Can you elaborate a bit, I'm confused where you are going with this. Seems to me the soldier in this case, has the perspective, it's the pundits that are off. You're point on perspective?

sorry, you are correct. the pundits need to keep everything in perspective.

I am just getting frustrated. again this morning they had some family memeber of a NG soldier on TV talking about how "unfair" it is that the weekend soldiers are having to spend so much time on active duty.

The uncle I mentioned was in the 45th Division which was a National Guard unit. he joined in 1939 and then in 1940 was activated and he did not get home until after VE day. His wife (my father's sister) followed him around from camp to camp until he was sent overseas and then she, like many wives (and husbands too) are doing today, waited quietly for his return. She didn't go bitching to some newspaper or some TV station about how her husband had "only joined for the college money" or that he had only expected to serve one weekend a month and two weeks a year.

I took out my frustrations inappropriately as my rant did not fit the article. sorry.

 

[Annie]

Hey Free and Fun, no problem. I took my 84 year old dad to DC the past few days, to see the WWII Memorial. We had a great time. He was with the 1st Div, 2nd wave at Omaha Beach. As he would say, he was lucky. Injured, sent to London for 5 months in hospital, (where he got himself into some 'funny spots'), and sent home, since he couldn't fight anymore. To him, the bad part was at home they put him in clerical in TX, and he wasn't release til '46 because his job was doing paperwork to get everyone home!

There are always going to be complainers in the service, especially families. The problem is the media making it appear that we're losing, when the inverse is the truth.

 

[NATO AIR]

if i may raise a point, my personal feeling is that the military is really the only segment of american society being asked to sacrifice right now. ordinary americans by and by live a normal life, really unaffected by what's happening in iraq or afghanistan. they're not sacrificing for their country, or even for their country's war efforts. so when i hear a military family gripe or moan, i understand, i see that part of that discontent (while natural and understandable from a historical perspective) also stems from them looking around at the rest of the country, in shock perhaps, at how unchanged the rest of the country is, while their worlds continue to be turned upside down.

imagine all those reservists especially, how many of them are really gonna have their good jobs back when they get home? how much financial sacrifice are their families having to endure, while other americans enjoy the summer and coming holidays, seemingly carefree, the chances of dying in a car wreck much higher than dying in an act of terrorism.

 

[Annie]

Nato, I wouldn't blast any military person or family from complaining, they've earned it. Actually, can't stop anyone from complaining, it's one of the things that they fight for.

As of this time it is a 'volunteer' military, thus the 'sacrifice' at home is very small. However they do pay with taxes, etc. More than a few are strongly supportive or non-supportive of the war, and are letting friends, neighbors, the media, and politician know their feelings.

That is how the system works.

 

[NATO AIR]

kathianne, i'm not saying you or anyone else is blasting the families... far from it

i just mean,seriously, they are the only ones asked to sacrifice.
bush (this is one of my major complaints about him that piss me off to no end but i'm still in the camp) could have asked americans to do so much more after 9/11, but he essentially told them to go back to shopping and being the same screwed up society and nation we were before 9/11...

now i see kids who haven't seen their dads for months on end

that is not anything like a businessman going for a week or two

i see wives who are watching their marriages collapse under the weight of 9-18 month deployments, financial sacrifices and shortcomings, etc etc, even though many of them are trying their hardest to hold them together

there is rarely that much marital stress for the ordinary american

and i see families, nearly 1,000 of them so far, who have lost bedrocks and foundations of their families, their sons, their fathers, their brothers, sisters and mothers and daughters. and the thousands of injured (mentally and physically) vets who are back home or coming soon... most of them are not the same, some may never be. war is hell, and only a small percentage of our population is understanding that right now.

 

[Annie]

Nato, there is nothing anyone can say that will make it easier on the families who have lost someone in Iraq or anywhere else. That includes the civilians, firefighters, police, port authority, etc from 9/11. There is nothing that can be said.

From all that I've seen though; families, neighbors, communities are striving to support those families with someone or someones serving or sadly lost.

I'm really unsure about what 'everyday homefront people' could have been asked by the government. It's very different from the WW's. Don't need silk, have more than enough sugar, butter, etc.
Have enough workers at munitions, etc.

Perhaps buying bonds, but even that seems less useful than helping the economy to get back to a roar...

 

[NATO AIR]

hmm, the possibilities are infiinte, you just need the imagination

we lacked that before 9/11, and we still lack it after 9/11

there is so much work to be done in america and around the world, yet no one is sounding the call for it, at least the sort of person that has real and considerable influence, and at the right time.

 

[Annie]

Originally posted by NATO AIR
hmm, the possibilities are infiinte, you just need the imagination

we lacked that before 9/11, and we still lack it after 9/11

there is so much work to be done in america and around the world, yet no one is sounding the call for it, at least the sort of person that has real and considerable influence, and at the right time.

Nato I know you're young and serving. Hats off to you. What do you have in mind? Sacrificing I mean. People with families do have finite amounts of time to 'do good.' I know I do my part, as do thousands of others in their own ways. Check out volunteer hours as well as donations.

 

[freeandfun1]

Nato, those that serve serve so that those of us at home don't have to suffer. Nearly every generation has a segment of that generation that has to sacrafice some part of their lives. I am thankful for what our military and civilian DOD members are doing for our nation and I am sure they do not begrudge us for going on with our lives. If we didn't, then for what purpose would they be serving?

 

[NATO AIR]

its not really me, i'm single and young so i could really care less compared to what some of these families and married couples go through... i'm sorry, i don't want everyone in a communist style united society, and i do realize there is that segment of society that just gives up more than everybody else during war, it just seems so more profound and exclusive this time around with the shrinking military (compared to the ranks of the past)

but i do think young americans like myself could do a whole lot more (those who aren't already in the military or doing aid work). i also think we criminally under utilize our elderly, many of whom could still do a lot of good for their communities and country, but don't get the call or the neccessary push/funding to do something.

i'll talk more about it though later on today, i'm putting the thinking cap and trying to post something on this much more worth reading.

 

[menewa]

Originally posted by NATO AIR
hmm, the possibilities are infiinte, you just need the imagination

I thought of a couple ideas of what we should be doing here at home. But these are congressional ideas. One is to cut down on oil usage. A bill really needs to be created that would increase the MPG minimum on trucks and SUVs. There is no just reason why Ford can sale a SUV that only gets six miles per gallon. This would of course decrease reliance on foreign oil. Also, much more should be dumped in R&D projects concerning renewable energy sources.

Another idea would be the decriminalization of drugs. It's been shown repeatedly that some terrorists groups traffic dope to earn money for their fanatical death missions. Decriminalization would swiftly remove this form of revenue, at least in America. But we could pressure allies abroad to do the same.