CDZ Intergenerationality

[phoenyx]

Again, I brought up sex ed and intergenerational interactions. They are not the same thing as the subjects you seem to be so keen on discussing.

But you included sexual issues in your OP.

One- Sexual Education of minors. That's it. If you want to talk about that, by all means. I even included a link to the Sex Ed curriculum in Ontario, the province I live in. By all means, let me know what you think of it.

I read it. What does it have to do with intergenerational relationships with minors online behind their parents' backs?

You still don't seem to have noticed that -you- are the one who keeps on mentioning intergenerational "relationships". The purpose of this thread was to talk about intergenerational interactions in general. That can be as simple as a teen waitress, as Moonglow mentioned, or it can be an online discussion about the economy between atleast one adult and one minor in an online forum such as this one, one in which I know you have participated in.

I don't see a problem with discussing economics online in a public setting with a minor.

Awesome . Finally, a point we can agree on.

Trying to befriend them, lure them into a discussion with you, and perhaps private messaging with them is inappropriate. Especially if their parents are not aware of it. Kids have parents and guardians for a reason.

So adults talking about economics with them is fine, but trying to be friendly with them, which I suppose could be considered trying to befriend them, is bad? Why? As to "lure them into a discussion with you", not sure what you mean. I just write on subjects that I find interesting and hope that people find my posts interesting as well. Do I "lure" potential responders into responding to me? I guess? I'm not trying to lure any particular age group, though. I just like interacting with fellow human beings. As to private messaging, that's something I generally don't do, especially with minors, unless they do it first. There is too much hoopla about this issue, no sense in going into dangerous political minefields uninvited. But if I'm invited, that's another story.

 

[ChrisL]

But you included sexual issues in your OP.

One- Sexual Education of minors. That's it. If you want to talk about that, by all means. I even included a link to the Sex Ed curriculum in Ontario, the province I live in. By all means, let me know what you think of it.

I read it. What does it have to do with intergenerational relationships with minors online behind their parents' backs?

You still don't seem to have noticed that -you- are the one who keeps on mentioning intergenerational "relationships". The purpose of this thread was to talk about intergenerational interactions in general. That can be as simple as a teen waitress, as Moonglow mentioned, or it can be an online discussion about the economy between atleast one adult and one minor in an online forum such as this one, one in which I know you have participated in.

I don't see a problem with discussing economics online in a public setting with a minor.

Awesome . Finally, a point we can agree on.

Trying to befriend them, lure them into a discussion with you, and perhaps private messaging with them is inappropriate. Especially if their parents are not aware of it. Kids have parents and guardians for a reason.

So adults talking about economics with them is fine, but trying to be friendly with them, which I suppose could be considered trying to befriend them, is bad? Why? As to "lure them into a discussion with you", not sure what you mean. I just write on subjects that I find interesting and hope that people find my posts interesting as well. Do I "lure" potential responders into responding to me? I guess? I'm not trying to lure any particular age group, though. I just like interacting with fellow human beings. As to private messaging, that's something I generally don't do, especially with minors, unless they do it first. There is too much hoopla about this issue, no sense in going into dangerous political minefields uninvited. But if I'm invited, that's another story.

Yes, it's bad. I'm sure you've seen the show "To Catch a Predator."

 

[ChrisL]

To Catch a Predator is an American reality television series that features hidden camera investigations by the television newsmagazine program Dateline NBC. It was devoted to impersonating underage people (generally ages 13–15) and detaining male adults who contacted them over the Internet for sexual liaisons.
To Catch a Predator - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Wikipedia, the free encyclopediaTo_Catch_a_Predator
Wikipedia

 

[ChrisL]

But you included sexual issues in your OP.

One- Sexual Education of minors. That's it. If you want to talk about that, by all means. I even included a link to the Sex Ed curriculum in Ontario, the province I live in. By all means, let me know what you think of it.

I read it. What does it have to do with intergenerational relationships with minors online behind their parents' backs?

You still don't seem to have noticed that -you- are the one who keeps on mentioning intergenerational "relationships". The purpose of this thread was to talk about intergenerational interactions in general. That can be as simple as a teen waitress, as Moonglow mentioned, or it can be an online discussion about the economy between atleast one adult and one minor in an online forum such as this one, one in which I know you have participated in.

I don't see a problem with discussing economics online in a public setting with a minor.

Awesome . Finally, a point we can agree on.

Trying to befriend them, lure them into a discussion with you, and perhaps private messaging with them is inappropriate. Especially if their parents are not aware of it. Kids have parents and guardians for a reason.

So adults talking about economics with them is fine, but trying to be friendly with them, which I suppose could be considered trying to befriend them, is bad? Why? As to "lure them into a discussion with you", not sure what you mean. I just write on subjects that I find interesting and hope that people find my posts interesting as well. Do I "lure" potential responders into responding to me? I guess? I'm not trying to lure any particular age group, though. I just like interacting with fellow human beings. As to private messaging, that's something I generally don't do, especially with minors, unless they do it first. There is too much hoopla about this issue, no sense in going into dangerous political minefields uninvited. But if I'm invited, that's another story.

No, if you are invited, then you do not go there. YOU are the adult in the situation. Behave like one.

 

[phoenyx]

One- Sexual Education of minors. That's it. If you want to talk about that, by all means. I even included a link to the Sex Ed curriculum in Ontario, the province I live in. By all means, let me know what you think of it.

I read it. What does it have to do with intergenerational relationships with minors online behind their parents' backs?

You still don't seem to have noticed that -you- are the one who keeps on mentioning intergenerational "relationships". The purpose of this thread was to talk about intergenerational interactions in general. That can be as simple as a teen waitress, as Moonglow mentioned, or it can be an online discussion about the economy between atleast one adult and one minor in an online forum such as this one, one in which I know you have participated in.

I don't see a problem with discussing economics online in a public setting with a minor.

Awesome . Finally, a point we can agree on.

Trying to befriend them, lure them into a discussion with you, and perhaps private messaging with them is inappropriate. Especially if their parents are not aware of it. Kids have parents and guardians for a reason.

So adults talking about economics with them is fine, but trying to be friendly with them, which I suppose could be considered trying to befriend them, is bad? Why? As to "lure them into a discussion with you", not sure what you mean. I just write on subjects that I find interesting and hope that people find my posts interesting as well. Do I "lure" potential responders into responding to me? I guess? I'm not trying to lure any particular age group, though. I just like interacting with fellow human beings. As to private messaging, that's something I generally don't do, especially with minors, unless they do it first. There is too much hoopla about this issue, no sense in going into dangerous political minefields uninvited. But if I'm invited, that's another story.

Yes, it's bad. I'm sure you've seen the show "To Catch a Predator."

No, though I think I've heard of it. I just googled it, this is the description I got: "To Catch a Predator is an American reality television series that features hidden camera investigations by the television newsmagazine program Dateline NBC. It was devoted to impersonating underage people (generally ages 13–15) and detaining male adults who contacted them over the Internet for sexual liaisons." You seem to have gotten a pretty messed up impression of me. I am definitely quite aware that having a "sexual liaison" with a minor below 16 is illegal in all parts of North America. No, I'm simply talking about social interactions. Sometimes, people of all ages prefer to communicate to others one on one, instead of in a group setting. I see nothing wrong with that.

 

[ChrisL]

I read it. What does it have to do with intergenerational relationships with minors online behind their parents' backs?

You still don't seem to have noticed that -you- are the one who keeps on mentioning intergenerational "relationships". The purpose of this thread was to talk about intergenerational interactions in general. That can be as simple as a teen waitress, as Moonglow mentioned, or it can be an online discussion about the economy between atleast one adult and one minor in an online forum such as this one, one in which I know you have participated in.

I don't see a problem with discussing economics online in a public setting with a minor.

Awesome . Finally, a point we can agree on.

Trying to befriend them, lure them into a discussion with you, and perhaps private messaging with them is inappropriate. Especially if their parents are not aware of it. Kids have parents and guardians for a reason.

So adults talking about economics with them is fine, but trying to be friendly with them, which I suppose could be considered trying to befriend them, is bad? Why? As to "lure them into a discussion with you", not sure what you mean. I just write on subjects that I find interesting and hope that people find my posts interesting as well. Do I "lure" potential responders into responding to me? I guess? I'm not trying to lure any particular age group, though. I just like interacting with fellow human beings. As to private messaging, that's something I generally don't do, especially with minors, unless they do it first. There is too much hoopla about this issue, no sense in going into dangerous political minefields uninvited. But if I'm invited, that's another story.

Yes, it's bad. I'm sure you've seen the show "To Catch a Predator."

No, though I think I've heard of it. I just googled it, this is the description I got: "To Catch a Predator is an American reality television series that features hidden camera investigations by the television newsmagazine program Dateline NBC. It was devoted to impersonating underage people (generally ages 13–15) and detaining male adults who contacted them over the Internet for sexual liaisons." You seem to have gotten a pretty messed up impression of me. I am definitely quite aware that having a "sexual liaison" with a minor below 16 is illegal in all parts of North America. No, I'm simply talking about social interactions. Sometimes, people of all ages prefer to communicate to others one on one, instead of in a group setting. I see nothing wrong with that.

Well you should because it is inappropriate. As far as I'm concerned, you are a stranger on the internet to these underage girls. You have no business getting into any kind of a personal relationship with them without their parent's knowledge and consent.

 

[ChrisL]

I read it. What does it have to do with intergenerational relationships with minors online behind their parents' backs?

You still don't seem to have noticed that -you- are the one who keeps on mentioning intergenerational "relationships". The purpose of this thread was to talk about intergenerational interactions in general. That can be as simple as a teen waitress, as Moonglow mentioned, or it can be an online discussion about the economy between atleast one adult and one minor in an online forum such as this one, one in which I know you have participated in.

I don't see a problem with discussing economics online in a public setting with a minor.

Awesome . Finally, a point we can agree on.

Trying to befriend them, lure them into a discussion with you, and perhaps private messaging with them is inappropriate. Especially if their parents are not aware of it. Kids have parents and guardians for a reason.

So adults talking about economics with them is fine, but trying to be friendly with them, which I suppose could be considered trying to befriend them, is bad? Why? As to "lure them into a discussion with you", not sure what you mean. I just write on subjects that I find interesting and hope that people find my posts interesting as well. Do I "lure" potential responders into responding to me? I guess? I'm not trying to lure any particular age group, though. I just like interacting with fellow human beings. As to private messaging, that's something I generally don't do, especially with minors, unless they do it first. There is too much hoopla about this issue, no sense in going into dangerous political minefields uninvited. But if I'm invited, that's another story.

Yes, it's bad. I'm sure you've seen the show "To Catch a Predator."

No, though I think I've heard of it. I just googled it, this is the description I got: "To Catch a Predator is an American reality television series that features hidden camera investigations by the television newsmagazine program Dateline NBC. It was devoted to impersonating underage people (generally ages 13–15) and detaining male adults who contacted them over the Internet for sexual liaisons." You seem to have gotten a pretty messed up impression of me. I am definitely quite aware that having a "sexual liaison" with a minor below 16 is illegal in all parts of North America. No, I'm simply talking about social interactions. Sometimes, people of all ages prefer to communicate to others one on one, instead of in a group setting. I see nothing wrong with that.

In some states, it is illegal until the child turns 18 years old.

 

[ChrisL]

Children are under the care of an adult parent/guardian for a reason. A parent's main and most important job is to protect their child. That includes on the internet.

 

[phoenyx]

You still don't seem to have noticed that -you- are the one who keeps on mentioning intergenerational "relationships". The purpose of this thread was to talk about intergenerational interactions in general. That can be as simple as a teen waitress, as Moonglow mentioned, or it can be an online discussion about the economy between atleast one adult and one minor in an online forum such as this one, one in which I know you have participated in.

I don't see a problem with discussing economics online in a public setting with a minor.

Awesome . Finally, a point we can agree on.

Trying to befriend them, lure them into a discussion with you, and perhaps private messaging with them is inappropriate. Especially if their parents are not aware of it. Kids have parents and guardians for a reason.

So adults talking about economics with them is fine, but trying to be friendly with them, which I suppose could be considered trying to befriend them, is bad? Why? As to "lure them into a discussion with you", not sure what you mean. I just write on subjects that I find interesting and hope that people find my posts interesting as well. Do I "lure" potential responders into responding to me? I guess? I'm not trying to lure any particular age group, though. I just like interacting with fellow human beings. As to private messaging, that's something I generally don't do, especially with minors, unless they do it first. There is too much hoopla about this issue, no sense in going into dangerous political minefields uninvited. But if I'm invited, that's another story.

Yes, it's bad. I'm sure you've seen the show "To Catch a Predator."

No, though I think I've heard of it. I just googled it, this is the description I got: "To Catch a Predator is an American reality television series that features hidden camera investigations by the television newsmagazine program Dateline NBC. It was devoted to impersonating underage people (generally ages 13–15) and detaining male adults who contacted them over the Internet for sexual liaisons." You seem to have gotten a pretty messed up impression of me. I am definitely quite aware that having a "sexual liaison" with a minor below 16 is illegal in all parts of North America. No, I'm simply talking about social interactions. Sometimes, people of all ages prefer to communicate to others one on one, instead of in a group setting. I see nothing wrong with that.

Well you should because it is inappropriate.

Why is it fine to talk to a minor in a group setting, but not in a 1 to 1 setting?

As far as I'm concerned, you are a stranger on the internet to these underage girls.

Girls? We're talking about 1 alone here.

You have no business getting into any kind of a personal relationship

There you go with the "personal relationship" bit again. I am simply an online friend of a minor. Minors generally have a fair amount of online friends. I know I started getting them as soon as I got online myself, at 17.

 

[phoenyx]

You still don't seem to have noticed that -you- are the one who keeps on mentioning intergenerational "relationships". The purpose of this thread was to talk about intergenerational interactions in general. That can be as simple as a teen waitress, as Moonglow mentioned, or it can be an online discussion about the economy between atleast one adult and one minor in an online forum such as this one, one in which I know you have participated in.

I don't see a problem with discussing economics online in a public setting with a minor.

Awesome . Finally, a point we can agree on.

Trying to befriend them, lure them into a discussion with you, and perhaps private messaging with them is inappropriate. Especially if their parents are not aware of it. Kids have parents and guardians for a reason.

So adults talking about economics with them is fine, but trying to be friendly with them, which I suppose could be considered trying to befriend them, is bad? Why? As to "lure them into a discussion with you", not sure what you mean. I just write on subjects that I find interesting and hope that people find my posts interesting as well. Do I "lure" potential responders into responding to me? I guess? I'm not trying to lure any particular age group, though. I just like interacting with fellow human beings. As to private messaging, that's something I generally don't do, especially with minors, unless they do it first. There is too much hoopla about this issue, no sense in going into dangerous political minefields uninvited. But if I'm invited, that's another story.

Yes, it's bad. I'm sure you've seen the show "To Catch a Predator."

No, though I think I've heard of it. I just googled it, this is the description I got: "To Catch a Predator is an American reality television series that features hidden camera investigations by the television newsmagazine program Dateline NBC. It was devoted to impersonating underage people (generally ages 13–15) and detaining male adults who contacted them over the Internet for sexual liaisons." You seem to have gotten a pretty messed up impression of me. I am definitely quite aware that having a "sexual liaison" with a minor below 16 is illegal in all parts of North America. No, I'm simply talking about social interactions. Sometimes, people of all ages prefer to communicate to others one on one, instead of in a group setting. I see nothing wrong with that.

In some states, it is illegal until the child turns 18 years old.

I imagine you are talking about sexual liaisons?

 

[phoenyx]

Children are under the care of an adult parent/guardian for a reason. A parent's main and most important job is to protect their child. That includes on the internet.

I'd say there's another very important job for a parent- to give a child everything they need to grow. I strongly believe that this includes interactions with adults. Most parents agree that interactions with teachers is a good thing. And yes, they are vetted, as you say. That being said, children will not always be dealing with adults who are vetted. This becomes increasingly true the older they get. Given this fact, it behooves parents to train their children to know what types adult behaviours to look out for, but also to let them know that not all non family/non teachers are out to get them. I think that online environments can be a good place to start, as there is a barrier towards any physical interactions taking place, which is generally the ones that carry the most potential for harm.

 

[ChrisL]

I don't see a problem with discussing economics online in a public setting with a minor.

Awesome . Finally, a point we can agree on.

Trying to befriend them, lure them into a discussion with you, and perhaps private messaging with them is inappropriate. Especially if their parents are not aware of it. Kids have parents and guardians for a reason.

So adults talking about economics with them is fine, but trying to be friendly with them, which I suppose could be considered trying to befriend them, is bad? Why? As to "lure them into a discussion with you", not sure what you mean. I just write on subjects that I find interesting and hope that people find my posts interesting as well. Do I "lure" potential responders into responding to me? I guess? I'm not trying to lure any particular age group, though. I just like interacting with fellow human beings. As to private messaging, that's something I generally don't do, especially with minors, unless they do it first. There is too much hoopla about this issue, no sense in going into dangerous political minefields uninvited. But if I'm invited, that's another story.

Yes, it's bad. I'm sure you've seen the show "To Catch a Predator."

No, though I think I've heard of it. I just googled it, this is the description I got: "To Catch a Predator is an American reality television series that features hidden camera investigations by the television newsmagazine program Dateline NBC. It was devoted to impersonating underage people (generally ages 13–15) and detaining male adults who contacted them over the Internet for sexual liaisons." You seem to have gotten a pretty messed up impression of me. I am definitely quite aware that having a "sexual liaison" with a minor below 16 is illegal in all parts of North America. No, I'm simply talking about social interactions. Sometimes, people of all ages prefer to communicate to others one on one, instead of in a group setting. I see nothing wrong with that.

Well you should because it is inappropriate.

Why is it fine to talk to a minor in a group setting, but not in a 1 to 1 setting?

As far as I'm concerned, you are a stranger on the internet to these underage girls.

Girls? We're talking about 1 alone here.

You have no business getting into any kind of a personal relationship

There you go with the "personal relationship" bit again. I am simply an online friend of a minor. Minors generally have a fair amount of online friends. I know I started getting them as soon as I got online myself, at 17.

Teenage online grooming risks - Stranger danger - Online predators

Amy, from Yeovil, was 12-years-old when Oliver Randall, 20, from Bridport, Dorset, made first contact through a social networking site. Amy, now 14, explained how they first met on-line: “He asked me my age and we began to chat about all sorts of things from music to things we liked and disliked. There was no swearing in there so it made me think he was respectful. He said he was 18 so I felt comfortable talking to him because he was older and wiser. He asked me where I lived and I know it was a mistake to tell him, but the general conversation seemed okay so I wasn’t worried.”

However, Amy says the conversation soon turned quite serious. “It suddenly got quite scary as he started making sexual references which wasn’t very nice. I tried not to talk to him but it was hard, because he always seemed to be online and he always had something to say. One day he asked me if I would send him pictures of myself and I said no. Then, he would continue by asking how far I had gone, sexually, with a boy. This all happened within about a week – I can’t believe how quickly he advanced. I thought he was trusting, I thought he was listening to me, but it turns out, he had a different agenda.”

During a conversation with a friend on an instant messenger service, Amy, accidentally sent her mobile number to Randall, instead of her friend. He then began exchanging text messages with Amy, even attempting to organise a meeting with her. However, Amy’s mother, *Kathy, discovered the lurid messages on the phone and confronted Amy about the situation. Kathy said: “When I first found the text messages, I was in utter shock – I was sat there, hunched-foreword, shaking and sweating, and I actually dropped the phone onto the floor. I was worried that I had destroyed any evidence of this man’s unacceptable conversations with my daughter. I soon discovered that the contact linked to the internet. Realising the seriousness of the situation, I immediately called the police. Amy was incredibly lucky, because she was probably 24 hours away from being raped.”

Randall admitted 23 charges – which included engaging a child under 13 in sexual activity, inciting a girl under 13 in sexual activity, grooming children on the internet and making and taking indecent images of children.

Amy is relieved that the police caught up with Randall, she said: “He did very nasty stuff to others. Obviously I am glad it didn’t happen to me, but I was lucky because my mum found out what was going on. My nosey mum literally saved me from getting hurt.” Kathy admitted that friends were surprised it happened to their family. She said: “We have a bit of a reputation of being quite a strict family, and friends and family were quite shocked that this happened to us. Despite having controls about internet usage, where the computer is located in our home and what they are allowed to download – Oliver Randall was able to infiltrate our home and target my daughter. I am just so relieved that I found out when I did.”(Source: Dorset Police website )



What is the grooming process? How do they do this?
In order to protect a child from the dangers of online grooming we need to understand how this happens. How does a child get to the stage of being a victim of grooming and quite often, a willing accomplice in the abuse? And what are the lessons that can be learned from this process?

Forensic psychiatrist Dr. Michael Welner who has worked on some of the most sensitive cases in America in recent years, from Andrea Yates to the kidnapping of Elizabeth Smart wrote an excellent article for the www.oprah.com website where he outlined the 6 stages of grooming (Source: Oprah website ).



In this guide I am referencing these 6 stages and adding some examples of how it applies to online networks and apps.


Stage 1. Targeting the victim

According to Dr. Welner, “The offender targets a victim by sizing up the child’s vulnerability—emotional neediness, isolation and lower self-confidence. Children with less parental oversight are more desirable prey.”



How do they do this in reality?

• The groomer gathers personal details about a child online e.g. the child’s age, name, address, mobile number and the school the child attends.
• This information is often easily gathered from social networking sites such as a child’s profile on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram etc. The information is also obtained via multi-player games on Xbox, Playstation and WebChat sites.
• Many teens share hundreds of photos and videos of themselves on their social media accounts that can be viewed by anyone. They also list links to their Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, Vine and Snapchat profiles for anyone to follow and message them.

 

[ChrisL]

Continued from above . . .

According to internet security company ESET Ireland, online predators increasingly are gathering information about potential victims from social networking sites. Eight out of ten children sexually abused online have had their social network site accessed by their abuser to gain information about them. It found in 82% of online sex crimes against minors, the offender used the victim’s social networking site to gain information about the victim’s likes and dislikes. It also found that 65% of online sex offenders used the victim’s social networking site to gain home and school information about the victim. ESET Ireland previously did research which revealed that up to 73% of Irish children are left unsupervised online (Source: Irish Examiner ).

Once the groomer has made contact with the child he tries to seek out more information during online chats on networks and apps such as Twitter and Facebook DM, Kik Messenger and Snapchat such as:

• How does the child feel? Is he/she lonely, feeling neglected, feeling bullied?
• What type of relationship does he/she have with their parents and friends?
• Does he/she tend to spend time alone at home?

Groomers have also been known to inject a virus into a child’s computer which can give them access to the information and photos on the hard drive. They have also been known tocontrol the webcam so the child is being watched without the child knowing.

Stage 2. Gaining the victim’s trust

The groomer works to gain the victims trust by typically:

• Pretending to be a child or a late teen who is a bit more experienced.
• Some groomers even use voice changing software so they sound like a kid when they are speaking on multiplayer games and this puts the child at ease as they are confident that they are dealing with another teen.
• Posing as someone who is in distress and needs help. This makes the teen feel empathetic and willing to help them.
• Offering encouragement, attention and sympathetic responses when the child raises problems that they are having at home or at school.
• Knowing the latest music, games, hobbies and trends that are of interest to teens.
• Knowing from the teen’s social media profile what artists, football teams, movies they like and then speaking knowledgeably about those in order to form a bond.
• Initial conversations are usually very innocent and polite.

By interacting with your child on social media or via text or email they are building up a trust between them and your child.



Stage 3. Filling a need

Through online conversations the groomer identifies what the child values and would love to have and the groomer then fills the need through gifts and promises.

These can include:

• Online credit for new computer games.
• Gift vouchers to buy mobile apps.
• Promises of opportunities for modelling, especially to young girls.
• Lots of flattery and compliments in order to make the child feel special.

Stage 4. Isolating the child

The groomer will try to isolate the child from existing friends and will also prey on the fact that the child might be reluctant to report what is happening out of fear that she will get into trouble. This can take the form of:

• Telling the child that her friends are not real friends and that they exclude her and bitch about her.
• Establishing whether the child had been told not to get involved in online chat sites and if so, reminding her that if she now tells her parents she will probably get banned from using the internet.
• Making the child feel that they have a special relationship where the child is more understood by the groomer than by anyone else.

Stage 5. Sexualizing the relationship

Once the bond establishes and trust has been built up, the groomer will try to make the relationship more sexual. They do this by desensitising the child though sharing pornographic images and videos – quite often of child or teen pornography. The child might be curious about sex and once regularly exposed to these images it becomes part of normality and sexuality becomes a key part of the conversations between them.

The relationship progresses to the stage where the groomer requests the child to take photos or videos of themselves and to send them to the groomer, which often leads to a two way exchange between the groomer and the child.

These images and videos can be shared through Snapchat, Instagram direct messages, Vine private video messages, and webcam or text messages.

 

[phoenyx]

Awesome . Finally, a point we can agree on.

So adults talking about economics with them is fine, but trying to be friendly with them, which I suppose could be considered trying to befriend them, is bad? Why? As to "lure them into a discussion with you", not sure what you mean. I just write on subjects that I find interesting and hope that people find my posts interesting as well. Do I "lure" potential responders into responding to me? I guess? I'm not trying to lure any particular age group, though. I just like interacting with fellow human beings. As to private messaging, that's something I generally don't do, especially with minors, unless they do it first. There is too much hoopla about this issue, no sense in going into dangerous political minefields uninvited. But if I'm invited, that's another story.

Yes, it's bad. I'm sure you've seen the show "To Catch a Predator."

No, though I think I've heard of it. I just googled it, this is the description I got: "To Catch a Predator is an American reality television series that features hidden camera investigations by the television newsmagazine program Dateline NBC. It was devoted to impersonating underage people (generally ages 13–15) and detaining male adults who contacted them over the Internet for sexual liaisons." You seem to have gotten a pretty messed up impression of me. I am definitely quite aware that having a "sexual liaison" with a minor below 16 is illegal in all parts of North America. No, I'm simply talking about social interactions. Sometimes, people of all ages prefer to communicate to others one on one, instead of in a group setting. I see nothing wrong with that.

Well you should because it is inappropriate.

Why is it fine to talk to a minor in a group setting, but not in a 1 to 1 setting?

As far as I'm concerned, you are a stranger on the internet to these underage girls.

Girls? We're talking about 1 alone here.

You have no business getting into any kind of a personal relationship

There you go with the "personal relationship" bit again. I am simply an online friend of a minor. Minors generally have a fair amount of online friends. I know I started getting them as soon as I got online myself, at 17.

Teenage online grooming risks - Stranger danger - Online predators

Amy, from Yeovil, was 12-years-old when Oliver Randall, 20, from Bridport, Dorset, made first contact through a social networking site. Amy, now 14, explained how they first met on-line: “He asked me my age and we began to chat about all sorts of things from music to things we liked and disliked. There was no swearing in there so it made me think he was respectful. He said he was 18 so I felt comfortable talking to him because he was older and wiser. He asked me where I lived and I know it was a mistake to tell him, but the general conversation seemed okay so I wasn’t worried.”

However, Amy says the conversation soon turned quite serious. “It suddenly got quite scary as he started making sexual references which wasn’t very nice. I tried not to talk to him but it was hard, because he always seemed to be online and he always had something to say. One day he asked me if I would send him pictures of myself and I said no. Then, he would continue by asking how far I had gone, sexually, with a boy. This all happened within about a week – I can’t believe how quickly he advanced. I thought he was trusting, I thought he was listening to me, but it turns out, he had a different agenda.”

During a conversation with a friend on an instant messenger service, Amy, accidentally sent her mobile number to Randall, instead of her friend. He then began exchanging text messages with Amy, even attempting to organise a meeting with her. However, Amy’s mother, *Kathy, discovered the lurid messages on the phone and confronted Amy about the situation. Kathy said: “When I first found the text messages, I was in utter shock – I was sat there, hunched-foreword, shaking and sweating, and I actually dropped the phone onto the floor. I was worried that I had destroyed any evidence of this man’s unacceptable conversations with my daughter. I soon discovered that the contact linked to the internet. Realising the seriousness of the situation, I immediately called the police. Amy was incredibly lucky, because she was probably 24 hours away from being raped.”

Randall admitted 23 charges – which included engaging a child under 13 in sexual activity, inciting a girl under 13 in sexual activity, grooming children on the internet and making and taking indecent images of children.

Amy is relieved that the police caught up with Randall, she said: “He did very nasty stuff to others. Obviously I am glad it didn’t happen to me, but I was lucky because my mum found out what was going on. My nosey mum literally saved me from getting hurt.” Kathy admitted that friends were surprised it happened to their family. She said: “We have a bit of a reputation of being quite a strict family, and friends and family were quite shocked that this happened to us. Despite having controls about internet usage, where the computer is located in our home and what they are allowed to download – Oliver Randall was able to infiltrate our home and target my daughter. I am just so relieved that I found out when I did.”(Source: Dorset Police website )

That's a good story- it shows what can go wrong with personal relationships. The participants don't just have to be an adult and a minor for this to occur. It could be 2 minors or 2 adults as well. I think the biggest mistake was probably the minor mentioning where she lived, as well as accidentally sending her mobile number.

 

[ChrisL]

Children are under the care of an adult parent/guardian for a reason. A parent's main and most important job is to protect their child. That includes on the internet.

I'd say there's another very important job for a parent- to give a child everything they need to grow. I strongly believe that this includes interactions with adults. Most parents agree that interactions with teachers is a good thing. And yes, they are vetted, as you say. That being said, children will not always be dealing with adults who are vetted. This becomes increasingly true the older they get. Given this fact, it behooves parents to train their children to know what types adult behaviours to look out for, but also to let them know that not all non family/non teachers are out to get them. I think that online environments can be a good place to start, as there is a barrier towards any physical interactions taking place, which is generally the ones that carry the most potential for harm.

What do you think a 14-year-old girl's parents would say if she told them about a 40-something-year-old man on the internet who was trying to make friends with her?

 

[ChrisL]

Yes, it's bad. I'm sure you've seen the show "To Catch a Predator."

No, though I think I've heard of it. I just googled it, this is the description I got: "To Catch a Predator is an American reality television series that features hidden camera investigations by the television newsmagazine program Dateline NBC. It was devoted to impersonating underage people (generally ages 13–15) and detaining male adults who contacted them over the Internet for sexual liaisons." You seem to have gotten a pretty messed up impression of me. I am definitely quite aware that having a "sexual liaison" with a minor below 16 is illegal in all parts of North America. No, I'm simply talking about social interactions. Sometimes, people of all ages prefer to communicate to others one on one, instead of in a group setting. I see nothing wrong with that.

Well you should because it is inappropriate.

Why is it fine to talk to a minor in a group setting, but not in a 1 to 1 setting?

As far as I'm concerned, you are a stranger on the internet to these underage girls.

Girls? We're talking about 1 alone here.

You have no business getting into any kind of a personal relationship

There you go with the "personal relationship" bit again. I am simply an online friend of a minor. Minors generally have a fair amount of online friends. I know I started getting them as soon as I got online myself, at 17.

Teenage online grooming risks - Stranger danger - Online predators

Amy, from Yeovil, was 12-years-old when Oliver Randall, 20, from Bridport, Dorset, made first contact through a social networking site. Amy, now 14, explained how they first met on-line: “He asked me my age and we began to chat about all sorts of things from music to things we liked and disliked. There was no swearing in there so it made me think he was respectful. He said he was 18 so I felt comfortable talking to him because he was older and wiser. He asked me where I lived and I know it was a mistake to tell him, but the general conversation seemed okay so I wasn’t worried.”

However, Amy says the conversation soon turned quite serious. “It suddenly got quite scary as he started making sexual references which wasn’t very nice. I tried not to talk to him but it was hard, because he always seemed to be online and he always had something to say. One day he asked me if I would send him pictures of myself and I said no. Then, he would continue by asking how far I had gone, sexually, with a boy. This all happened within about a week – I can’t believe how quickly he advanced. I thought he was trusting, I thought he was listening to me, but it turns out, he had a different agenda.”

During a conversation with a friend on an instant messenger service, Amy, accidentally sent her mobile number to Randall, instead of her friend. He then began exchanging text messages with Amy, even attempting to organise a meeting with her. However, Amy’s mother, *Kathy, discovered the lurid messages on the phone and confronted Amy about the situation. Kathy said: “When I first found the text messages, I was in utter shock – I was sat there, hunched-foreword, shaking and sweating, and I actually dropped the phone onto the floor. I was worried that I had destroyed any evidence of this man’s unacceptable conversations with my daughter. I soon discovered that the contact linked to the internet. Realising the seriousness of the situation, I immediately called the police. Amy was incredibly lucky, because she was probably 24 hours away from being raped.”

Randall admitted 23 charges – which included engaging a child under 13 in sexual activity, inciting a girl under 13 in sexual activity, grooming children on the internet and making and taking indecent images of children.

Amy is relieved that the police caught up with Randall, she said: “He did very nasty stuff to others. Obviously I am glad it didn’t happen to me, but I was lucky because my mum found out what was going on. My nosey mum literally saved me from getting hurt.” Kathy admitted that friends were surprised it happened to their family. She said: “We have a bit of a reputation of being quite a strict family, and friends and family were quite shocked that this happened to us. Despite having controls about internet usage, where the computer is located in our home and what they are allowed to download – Oliver Randall was able to infiltrate our home and target my daughter. I am just so relieved that I found out when I did.”(Source: Dorset Police website )

That's a good story- it shows what can go wrong with personal relationships. The participants don't just have to be an adult and a minor for this to occur. It could be 2 minors or 2 adults as well. I think the biggest mistake was probably the minor mentioning where she lived, as well as accidentally sending her mobile number.

And adult men starting online relationships with children need to be watched. If you want friends, go find some friends your own age or who are at least adults. There is absolutely no reason for a person to be trying to make friends with a minor.

 

[phoenyx]

What is the grooming process? How do they do this?
In order to protect a child from the dangers of online grooming we need to understand how this happens. How does a child get to the stage of being a victim of grooming and quite often, a willing accomplice in the abuse? And what are the lessons that can be learned from this process?

Forensic psychiatrist Dr. Michael Welner who has worked on some of the most sensitive cases in America in recent years, from Andrea Yates to the kidnapping of Elizabeth Smart wrote an excellent article for the www.oprah.com website where he outlined the 6 stages of grooming (Source: Oprah website ).



In this guide I am referencing these 6 stages and adding some examples of how it applies to online networks and apps.


Stage 1. Targeting the victim

According to Dr. Welner, “The offender targets a victim by sizing up the child’s vulnerability—emotional neediness, isolation and lower self-confidence. Children with less parental oversight are more desirable prey.”



How do they do this in reality?

• The groomer gathers personal details about a child online e.g. the child’s age, name, address, mobile number and the school the child attends.
• This information is often easily gathered from social networking sites such as a child’s profile on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram etc. The information is also obtained via multi-player games on Xbox, Playstation and WebChat sites.
• Many teens share hundreds of photos and videos of themselves on their social media accounts that can be viewed by anyone. They also list links to their Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, Vine and Snapchat profiles for anyone to follow and message them.

Some good points in your article. That being said, I think the most important thing to remember is that there must always be a balance between avoiding interactions that can be harmful and not allowing interactions to take place at all.

 

[ChrisL]

More from the link I posted.

Once the abuse has started, the groomer will then attempt to keep in control by using methods such as:

• Making the child feel that they are to blame for how the relationship has developed sexually – that the child is responsible for what has happened. The child can feel very confused and feels that the groomer is someone who is helping them keep the secret.
• Bullying and threatening to tell the child’s parents what has been happening, which would result in the child getting banned from using the internet.
• Blackmailing the child with the threat that if they don’t continue he will post the images and videos to their friends on Facebook and Instagram or will email them to the child’s parents.
• Threats that he will kill a family pet or a family member if the child does not continue with his demands.

How prevalent is online grooming?
The scale of the problem is difficult to measure because many kids do not report the grooming out of embarrassment or shame. However, in the UK, reports to the Child Exploitation and Online Protection (CEOP) stood at around 1,000 a month in 2012 relating to online grooming, online sexual abuse, making arrangements to meet a child online, or a child being in immediate danger. (Source: Vodafone website ).

Barnardos.ie reports some studies which give a feel for how teens are exposing themselves to the risk of being targeted.

• One third of 9-19 year-olds in a UK study who go online at least once a week report having received unwanted sexual (31%) or nasty comments (33%) via email, chat, instant message or text message. But their parents substantially underestimate their children’s negative experiences – only 7% of parents think their child has received sexual comments and 4% think that their child has been bullied online (Source: www.Barnardos.ie).
• 46% of 9-19 year olds who go online at least once a week say that they have given out some personal information on the internet but only 5% of parents think their child has given out such information.
• In Ireland, one in ten children (aged 9 to 16 years) who arranged to meet someone they first met on the internet experienced physical threats and abuse and in all these cases the person who had introduced themselves online as a child turned out to be an adult.
• The study also found that almost 30% of children had encountered someone online who asked for information such as their photo, phone number or address, representing an increase of 19% on a similar study two years ago (Source: Barnardoe.ie ).

Next Steps: To address this issue parents should learn

• How to install Family Shield – A free wi-fi filter to block all adult content on every internet device in your home including PC, laptop, tablet, mobile, ipod, DSi, Xbox

• How to install a parental control app on your childs android phone and on the app

o How to Block access to adult and inappropriate sites

o How to Block access to certain apps you don’t want your child to use

• How to set up restrictions on your child’s iPhone which blocks access to inappropriate sites and specific sites that you choose.
• How to review your child’s profiles on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, Vine, Snapchat to ensure that there is no private information such as mobile number, email address, school name.
• How to install and use Snapchat, Instagram, Vine, Twitter, Ask.fm.
• How to review the updates your child is sending out on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, Vine, Snapchat (story) and Vine so you can ask your child;
  • To think before posting – Would they like strangers to be able to know all of this information about them?
  • Would he/she want a stranger to be able to download all of his/her videos and photos?

• How to make social network and messaging apps private on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, Snapchat, ask.fm and Vine
• How to check who is following and seeing updates from your child on Twitter, Instagram, Vine and who their friends are on Facebook and Snapchat. Ask your child to remove strangers that he/she doesn’t know.
• How to block people from texting your child.
• Restrict who can call or text your child to specific telephone numbers e.g. friends and family.
• Block certain numbers from calling or texting your child in the future.
• How to install and use a mobile monitoring app which sends you copies of text messages sent to your child that contain words you are concerned about.
• How to install an Android app that sends you copies of all photos and videos taken on your child’s smartphone.

 

[ChrisL]

What is the grooming process? How do they do this?
In order to protect a child from the dangers of online grooming we need to understand how this happens. How does a child get to the stage of being a victim of grooming and quite often, a willing accomplice in the abuse? And what are the lessons that can be learned from this process?

Forensic psychiatrist Dr. Michael Welner who has worked on some of the most sensitive cases in America in recent years, from Andrea Yates to the kidnapping of Elizabeth Smart wrote an excellent article for the www.oprah.com website where he outlined the 6 stages of grooming (Source: Oprah website ).



In this guide I am referencing these 6 stages and adding some examples of how it applies to online networks and apps.


Stage 1. Targeting the victim

According to Dr. Welner, “The offender targets a victim by sizing up the child’s vulnerability—emotional neediness, isolation and lower self-confidence. Children with less parental oversight are more desirable prey.”



How do they do this in reality?

• The groomer gathers personal details about a child online e.g. the child’s age, name, address, mobile number and the school the child attends.
• This information is often easily gathered from social networking sites such as a child’s profile on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram etc. The information is also obtained via multi-player games on Xbox, Playstation and WebChat sites.
• Many teens share hundreds of photos and videos of themselves on their social media accounts that can be viewed by anyone. They also list links to their Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, Vine and Snapchat profiles for anyone to follow and message them.

Some good points in your article. That being said, I think the most important thing to remember is that there must always be a balance between avoiding interactions that can be harmful and not allowing interactions to take place at all.

No. No adult men should be "befriending" underage children on the internet. It is completely inappropriate.

 

[phoenyx]

Children are under the care of an adult parent/guardian for a reason. A parent's main and most important job is to protect their child. That includes on the internet.

I'd say there's another very important job for a parent- to give a child everything they need to grow. I strongly believe that this includes interactions with adults. Most parents agree that interactions with teachers is a good thing. And yes, they are vetted, as you say. That being said, children will not always be dealing with adults who are vetted. This becomes increasingly true the older they get. Given this fact, it behooves parents to train their children to know what types adult behaviours to look out for, but also to let them know that not all non family/non teachers are out to get them. I think that online environments can be a good place to start, as there is a barrier towards any physical interactions taking place, which is generally the ones that carry the most potential for harm.

What do you think a 14-year-old girl's parents would say if she told them about a 40-something-year-old man on the internet who was trying to make friends with her?

I can imagine various reactions. The bottom line, in my view, is that people of all ages will make friends with people of all ages. I think the important thing in a society is to try to ensure that the relationships anyone has are good ones. I think that trying to severe any type of interactions between adults and minors when not in a school setting can be worse. Tell me, have you seen the film "Lord of the Flies"?