Indonesia’s last synagogue, an intended heritage site, destroyed

[Hollie]

Indonesia’s last synagogue, an intended heritage site, destroyed

Indonesia's last synagogue, an intended heritage site, destroyed | The Times of Israel


Indonesia’s last synagogue has been destroyed, a Dutch news site reported.

Unidentified persons demolished the Beith Shalom synagogue in Surabaya on the island of Java to its foundations sometime earlier this year, according to a report on Indoweb.nl.
The synagogue has seen a number of anti-Israel protests staged in front of it and was sealed by Islamic hardliners sealed in 2009, according to the Jakarta Globe.

Reports suggesting the synagogue’s destruction have appeared in Indonesian media since May but were confirmed last week by the Indoweb.nl, which quoted the director of the Surabaya Heritage Society as saying that he intended to protest the demolition in talks with government officials.
“It is not clear by whom and when exactly the building was demolished,” Freddy Instanto told Indoweb.nl.

Uhh, yeah, Freddy. It’s not at all clear by whom and when exactly the building was demolished. Most likely we can deduce it was those gangs of heavily armed Lutherans we read so much about.

The creation of Israel could have been peaceful. With support from reasonable neighbors it could have been. But no such neighbors existed.

Post-Holocaust Europe and continued oppression in Russia, Europe, and (especially) Moslem lands ©, made the creation of Israel an absolute necessity. The phrase in Israel that describes their predicament then, and still today, is "En brera" ("No choice").


Israel is as legitimate as any other nation. This does not preclude the creation of a contiguous peaceful Palestinian State--which and the majority of Israelis, btw support.


Jews will live for you. They will no longer die for you.

 

[Indofred]

First up and to be clear.

Tearing down the building was a criminal act, an act of vandalism and has no support from me.
Indonesia is seriously short of historic building so as many as possible should be maintained, regardless of what extremists think of Israel and are willing to do have have a go at Jews.

As usual, there's a lot more to the story than the Jewish press like to let on.

Java's Last Synagogue Torn Down - The Jakarta Globe

It isn't Indonesia's last one.

Indonesia’s last surviving synagogue is located in Manado, North Sulawesi.

Indonesia is a corrupt country, full of people trying to make a fast buck.

“There was an indication that the owner of the synagogue had sold the building,” Sachiroel said. “It’s not clear whether the buyer — allegedly a real estate company — destroyed the building, or if the original owner knocked it down themselves,”

The owner had sold the place (So much for the Jews being shocked at losing their wonderful Synagogue) and may even have knocked it down themselves because the land would be worth more if there wasn't a protected building there.
Land prices in this country are very high at the moment so that's more than likely.

 

[Indofred]

Uhh, yeah, Freddy.

Why are you having a go at Freddy? he seems like a reasonable chap, out to find the truth.

 

[Hollie]

You’re sweepingly missing the point, IF.

Purging of competing religions is something we see across the islamist Middle East, Persia and Indonesia. We see these strides toward mini kalipha frequently where moslems gain strength of numbers--and ample weapons and ammunition. The Mindanao region in the southern Philippines, for example, is easily one of the top ten beheading/murder destinations in the world, in large part thanks to premier glorious killers for god, Abu Sayyaf (father of the sword) and Jemaah Islamiyah (the group/party of Islam). In order to establish their islamist state, the Christian population is being purged (the Jewish population is now gone), and as expected, gruesome murders occur with regularity.

 

[Indofred]

You’re sweepingly missing the point, IF.

Purging of competing religions is something we see across the islamist Middle East, Persia and Indonesia. We see these strides toward mini kalipha frequently where moslems gain strength of numbers--and ample weapons and ammunition. The Mindanao region in the southern Philippines, for example, is easily one of the top ten beheading/murder destinations in the world, in large part thanks to premier glorious killers for god, Abu Sayyaf (father of the sword) and Jemaah Islamiyah (the group/party of Islam). In order to establish their islamist state, the Christian population is being purged (the Jewish population is now gone), and as expected, gruesome murders occur with regularity.

Not really.
I've seen the daft FPI, Bakasi forum lot at work and actually spoken to several of them.
I'm probably the only forum member to come into direct conversation with members of the group that carried out the Bali bombings and, oddly, the police squad who killed them.

I'm more than aware of these people and how they want to destroy anything and everything not Muslim and, just to really shit up the world, want to force their extremist version of Islam on the whole world and are willing to murder in massive numbers to save people.

Islamic extremism, as with all other forms of religious/political extremism, is seriously dangerous but has nothing to do with the vast majority of Muslims.
We'll see that next year when the extremist candidate for the Indonesian election gets his arse kicked at the polls.
The daft bastard is ranting on about how all Muslims should vote for him but he's a non runner in real life because the vast majority of Muslims here don't want shit on their doorstep and these people are turds of the lowest order.

 

[Hoffstra]

Jews in Indonesia?

 

[irosie91]

You’re sweepingly missing the point, IF.

Purging of competing religions is something we see across the islamist Middle East, Persia and Indonesia. We see these strides toward mini kalipha frequently where moslems gain strength of numbers--and ample weapons and ammunition. The Mindanao region in the southern Philippines, for example, is easily one of the top ten beheading/murder destinations in the world, in large part thanks to premier glorious killers for god, Abu Sayyaf (father of the sword) and Jemaah Islamiyah (the group/party of Islam). In order to establish their islamist state, the Christian population is being purged (the Jewish population is now gone), and as expected, gruesome murders occur with regularity.

Not really.
I've seen the daft FPI, Bakasi forum lot at work and actually spoken to several of them.
I'm probably the only forum member to come into direct conversation with members of the group that carried out the Bali bombings and, oddly, the police squad who killed them.

I'm more than aware of these people and how they want to destroy anything and everything not Muslim and, just to really shit up the world, want to force their extremist version of Islam on the whole world and are willing to murder in massive numbers to save people.

Islamic extremism, as with all other forms of religious/political extremism, is seriously dangerous but has nothing to do with the vast majority of Muslims.
We'll see that next year when the extremist candidate for the Indonesian election gets his arse kicked at the polls.
The daft bastard is ranting on about how all Muslims should vote for him but he's a non runner in real life because the vast majority of Muslims here don't want shit on their doorstep and these people are turds of the lowest order.

The "vast majority of muslims" do not control the islamic world or set the policies
thereof-------The vast majority of Germans never gassed a child The vast majority
of Spaniards never burned an heretic or jew to death during the Spanish Inquisition
and the Vast Marjority of muslims do not create the educational curriculum in islamic
lands that teach that the PACT OF OMAR was a marvelously progressive "treaty"
conferring EQUALITY upon non muslims in lands conquored during the GLORIOUS
AGE OF ISLAMIC CONQUEST The vast majority of muslims DO BELIEVE that the
PACT OF OMAR is a wonderfully progressive "TREATY" and dhimmis love being dhimmis
because they were so taught as children.

Your attempt to whitewash filth is obscene

 

[irosie91]

Jews in Indonesia?

Part of peoples who fled the filth of islamicism long ago----generally from
countries like Iraq and Yemen and various others in north africa----and also
some who came along with Durch sailors. As the filth grew in Indonesia
their numbers dwindled to something like two dozen left --- Judaism is NOT
a legal religion in fascist cesspit -----Indonesia --- The few jews still there live
among christians and carry christian ID cards

 

[bianco]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pgpHHoIvU2I]Indonesian Christians under attack - YouTube[/ame]

#####

Australia should send warships to protect the Christians.
Hmmm, wait...Indonesia's military is ranked 14th in the world, Australia's 26th.
Another reason for Australia to stop giving Indonesia billions of dollars in aid every few years.
One day politicians might wake up.

Australia should get nukes, then send the warships.

Not sure I like Judaism, if what's allegedly written in the Talmud it's sacred book about Gentiles is true.

 

[Indofred]

You’re sweepingly missing the point, IF.

Purging of competing religions is something we see across the islamist Middle East, Persia and Indonesia. We see these strides toward mini kalipha frequently where moslems gain strength of numbers--and ample weapons and ammunition. The Mindanao region in the southern Philippines, for example, is easily one of the top ten beheading/murder destinations in the world, in large part thanks to premier glorious killers for god, Abu Sayyaf (father of the sword) and Jemaah Islamiyah (the group/party of Islam). In order to establish their islamist state, the Christian population is being purged (the Jewish population is now gone), and as expected, gruesome murders occur with regularity.

Not really.
I've seen the daft FPI, Bakasi forum lot at work and actually spoken to several of them.
I'm probably the only forum member to come into direct conversation with members of the group that carried out the Bali bombings and, oddly, the police squad who killed them.

I'm more than aware of these people and how they want to destroy anything and everything not Muslim and, just to really shit up the world, want to force their extremist version of Islam on the whole world and are willing to murder in massive numbers to save people.

Islamic extremism, as with all other forms of religious/political extremism, is seriously dangerous but has nothing to do with the vast majority of Muslims.
We'll see that next year when the extremist candidate for the Indonesian election gets his arse kicked at the polls.
The daft bastard is ranting on about how all Muslims should vote for him but he's a non runner in real life because the vast majority of Muslims here don't want shit on their doorstep and these people are turds of the lowest order.

The "vast majority of muslims" do not control the islamic world or set the policies
thereof-------The vast majority of Germans never gassed a child The vast majority
of Spaniards never burned an heretic or jew to death during the Spanish Inquisition
and the Vast Marjority of muslims do not create the educational curriculum in islamic
lands that teach that the PACT OF OMAR was a marvelously progressive "treaty"
conferring EQUALITY upon non muslims in lands conquored during the GLORIOUS
AGE OF ISLAMIC CONQUEST The vast majority of muslims DO BELIEVE that the
PACT OF OMAR is a wonderfully progressive "TREATY" and dhimmis love being dhimmis
because they were so taught as children.

Your attempt to whitewash filth is obscene

I'm not whitewashing anything.

 

[Hollie]

You’re sweepingly missing the point, IF.

Purging of competing religions is something we see across the islamist Middle East, Persia and Indonesia. We see these strides toward mini kalipha frequently where moslems gain strength of numbers--and ample weapons and ammunition. The Mindanao region in the southern Philippines, for example, is easily one of the top ten beheading/murder destinations in the world, in large part thanks to premier glorious killers for god, Abu Sayyaf (father of the sword) and Jemaah Islamiyah (the group/party of Islam). In order to establish their islamist state, the Christian population is being purged (the Jewish population is now gone), and as expected, gruesome murders occur with regularity.

Not really.
I've seen the daft FPI, Bakasi forum lot at work and actually spoken to several of them.
I'm probably the only forum member to come into direct conversation with members of the group that carried out the Bali bombings and, oddly, the police squad who killed them.

I'm more than aware of these people and how they want to destroy anything and everything not Muslim and, just to really shit up the world, want to force their extremist version of Islam on the whole world and are willing to murder in massive numbers to save people.

Islamic extremism, as with all other forms of religious/political extremism, is seriously dangerous but has nothing to do with the vast majority of Muslims.
We'll see that next year when the extremist candidate for the Indonesian election gets his arse kicked at the polls.
The daft bastard is ranting on about how all Muslims should vote for him but he's a non runner in real life because the vast majority of Muslims here don't want shit on their doorstep and these people are turds of the lowest order.

Well , yeah, really.

To claim that the purging of non-moslems from moslem majority nations is simply a function of the tiny minority of violent extremists who don’t represent the real islam™ doesn’t address the issue. This is a phenomenon we see historically and it continues today. The demographics are available for anyone to see.

I wouldn't expect that we'll hear a hue and cry from the "moderates" in condemnation of islam's purging of Jews from Indonesia, and elsewhere across the islamist Middle East. The "moderates" have had decades, (well, longer than that), to reign in the so-called fundamentalists and have demonstrated a propensity for inaction. In fact, tacit endorsement of the actions of the fundies has been more the rule than the exception.

Islamism was never about "monotheism" or religious belief but was, and is, about domination. At no time in islamist history was there ever recognition of equality or co-existence with the kafir. Islamism has always been about supremacy over competing ideologies and people. Islam has remained virtually unchanged since the time of the religion's inventor. Its orthodox doctrine warns the believer not to change God's religion in any way, and through means of military conquests, its literalistic character has been validated in the minds of the faithful. Why deviate from a successful plan of action? But it's not successful!

 

[Indofred]

Well , yeah, really.

To claim that the purging of non-moslems from moslem majority nations is simply a function of the tiny minority of violent extremists who don’t represent the real islam™ doesn’t address the issue. This is a phenomenon we see historically and it continues today. The demographics are available for anyone to see.

I wouldn't expect that we'll hear a hue and cry from the "moderates" in condemnation of islam's purging of Jews from Indonesia, and elsewhere across the islamist Middle East. The "moderates" have had decades, (well, longer than that), to reign in the so-called fundamentalists and have demonstrated a propensity for inaction. In fact, tacit endorsement of the actions of the fundies has been more the rule than the exception.

Islamism was never about "monotheism" or religious belief but was, and is, about domination. At no time in islamist history was there ever recognition of equality or co-existence with the kafir. Islamism has always been about supremacy over competing ideologies and people. Islam has remained virtually unchanged since the time of the religion's inventor. Its orthodox doctrine warns the believer not to change God's religion in any way, and through means of military conquests, its literalistic character has been validated in the minds of the faithful. Why deviate from a successful plan of action? But it's not successful!

I talk of Indonesia, I think it was mentioned in the thread title, where Muslims tend to be peaceful and open to ideas as well as perfectly happy to mix with pretty much anyone.
Of course, I don't for a moment claim there's no one here stupid enough to want all and everything non Muslim out of the country, I've met several of that rather silly mindset so I can confirm from personal experience, there are.
However, as we see from the crap results these people get in elections, they make up a tiny minority of this country's population.I live on an estate that has a high non Muslim population, all out friends on the estate are not Muslims and our maid isn't Muslim.
When out with friends of friends, I rarely know what religion they are because no bugger bothers to ask; it's not as important as sharing a nice meal.

I met part of the terror cell that did Bali and the Jakarta hotel bombings and I met the police who shot them. I've also spent time chatting to FBR members on their home turf.

As with most bigots, they tend never to have met and know little of the people they hate so I rarely tell them I'm a Muslim unless they actually ask.
I'd sooner leave them with the idea, some foreigners are nice.
That tends to destroy stereotypes.

 

[Indofred]

I wouldn't expect that we'll hear a hue and cry from the "moderates" in condemnation of islam's purging of Jews from Indonesia,

This may come as a shock but most people in Indonesia have no clue there are any Jews here and most don't give a shit either way.
More so when you consider most people in the villages have no clue what Jews are because they managed a very poor or no education.

Bit hard to hate what you've never heard of.

As for moderates crying out against violence, most people simply aren't politically active, interested or educated so they don't.
Look at history, very few moderate groups ever do anything.

 

[Indofred]

Why not pop over here for a holiday. You'll find a very friendly population and I'll take you out for dinner and have a serious chat about the subject.
After that, we could go for a walk around some of the places I take my photos.
That way, you'll start to see what makes these people tick and how to combat extremism.

 

[irosie91]

Why not pop over here for a holiday. You'll find a very friendly population and I'll take you out for dinner and have a serious chat about the subject.
After that, we could go for a walk around some of the places I take my photos.
That way, you'll start to see what makes these people tick and how to combat extremism.

No thanks-----I have greater opportunity here in the USA----to see CULTURAL DIVERSITY---
than I would have sipping tea in the parlors of the artificially polite as a guest ---far far far
greater opportunity. In the course of my life----I have experienced----that TOURIST
THING and even examined all those souvenirs made in china. Interestingly enough---
I have never seen TERRAIN that outshines that which is available to me---right here----
within a few hours driving distance---this way or that. I have noticed that most of the
world ----tends to look like New Jersey----mostly boring

 

[irosie91]

I wouldn't expect that we'll hear a hue and cry from the "moderates" in condemnation of islam's purging of Jews from Indonesia,

This may come as a shock but most people in Indonesia have no clue there are any Jews here and most don't give a shit either way.
More so when you consider most people in the villages have no clue what Jews are because they managed a very poor or no education.

Bit hard to hate what you've never heard of.

As for moderates crying out against violence, most people simply aren't politically active, interested or educated so they don't.
Look at history, very few moderate groups ever do anything.

It does not shock me-----I have known scores and scores of muslims from
southeast Asia over the past 50 years ---from highly educated ---to the average
you describe----completely illiterate. As to your response to the purging of jews
from Indonesia----by virtue of the filth of Pancasila and the NON LEGAL STATUS
of Judaism -----I have no doubt that Indonesians simply do not know ----no one
tells them ----But your statement of "non hate" is a lie. Hatred of jews is prominent
in the KORAN which even the illiterate (actually mostly the illiterate) consider a
very concrete "TRUTH". Are you suggesting that indonesian muslims know nothing
about the koran? Does mosque attendance HAPPEN?

 

[bianco]

Why not pop over here for a holiday. You'll find a very friendly population and I'll take you out for dinner and have a serious chat about the subject.
After that, we could go for a walk around some of the places I take my photos.
That way, you'll start to see what makes these people tick and how to combat extremism.

Pop over to Indonesia for a holiday?
Never in a million years!
...not after what Aussie tourists told after Schapelle Corby was arrested and tried.

Friendly population?
Who, like the ones on Lombok and Bali feeding methanol cocktails to tourists, killing and maiming them for life?
The ones on Lombok reportedly flicking matches at female Aussie tourists and taunting them with "Bali barbecue"! ?


Pop over to Indonesia for a holiday?
Casual friends of mine, and their friends tried that, it didn't work out;

http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2002/10/18/1034561316708.html

The last dance

October 19 2002

They were ready for a party, with no thought of the tragedy to come. Their story, through the day, the night and the horrors that followed, is told by Philip Cornford and Herald reporters.

AMONG the hundreds of blameless victims, they were among the most innocent, six young Australian girls and a teenage boy pretending to be adults, their vivid anticipations still unsullied by life. As the silky tropical darkness came over Bali with the quickness of the drumbeat, their excitement heightened. They were going nightclubbing for the first time, chaperoned by their mothers. It was going to be a perfect night.

But fate had cast different dice. Two of the girls, six of their mothers, and one of the fathers, along with more than 200 other holidaying Australians, could not know that this Saturday night, October 12, was to become the latest date of infamy, sending a clangour of horror around the world. Before midnight, many would be dead, incinerated.

etc

 

[Indofred]

Why not pop over here for a holiday. You'll find a very friendly population and I'll take you out for dinner and have a serious chat about the subject.
After that, we could go for a walk around some of the places I take my photos.
That way, you'll start to see what makes these people tick and how to combat extremism.

Pop over to Indonesia for a holiday?
Never in a million years!
...not after what Aussie tourists told after Schapelle Corby was arrested and tried.

Friendly population?
Who, like the ones on Lombok and Bali feeding methanol cocktails to tourists, killing and maiming them for life?
The ones on Lombok reportedly flicking matches at female Aussie tourists and taunting them with "Bali barbecue"! ?


Pop over to Indonesia for a holiday?
Casual friends of mine, and their friends tried that, it didn't work out;

The last dance - smh.com.au

The last dance

October 19 2002

They were ready for a party, with no thought of the tragedy to come. Their story, through the day, the night and the horrors that followed, is told by Philip Cornford and Herald reporters.

AMONG the hundreds of blameless victims, they were among the most innocent, six young Australian girls and a teenage boy pretending to be adults, their vivid anticipations still unsullied by life. As the silky tropical darkness came over Bali with the quickness of the drumbeat, their excitement heightened. They were going nightclubbing for the first time, chaperoned by their mothers. It was going to be a perfect night.

But fate had cast different dice. Two of the girls, six of their mothers, and one of the fathers, along with more than 200 other holidaying Australians, could not know that this Saturday night, October 12, was to become the latest date of infamy, sending a clangour of horror around the world. Before midnight, many would be dead, incinerated.

etc

You condemn the whole population of Indonesia for the actions of a few?
Perhaps I should write off all Australians as drug dealing bastards because a few are.

Would that be fair and, if not, consider your position regarding Indonesians.

 

[Indofred]

I wouldn't expect that we'll hear a hue and cry from the "moderates" in condemnation of islam's purging of Jews from Indonesia,

This may come as a shock but most people in Indonesia have no clue there are any Jews here and most don't give a shit either way.
More so when you consider most people in the villages have no clue what Jews are because they managed a very poor or no education.

Bit hard to hate what you've never heard of.

As for moderates crying out against violence, most people simply aren't politically active, interested or educated so they don't.
Look at history, very few moderate groups ever do anything.

It does not shock me-----I have known scores and scores of muslims from
southeast Asia over the past 50 years ---from highly educated ---to the average
you describe----completely illiterate. As to your response to the purging of jews
from Indonesia----by virtue of the filth of Pancasila and the NON LEGAL STATUS
of Judaism -----I have no doubt that Indonesians simply do not know ----no one
tells them ----But your statement of "non hate" is a lie. Hatred of jews is prominent
in the KORAN which even the illiterate (actually mostly the illiterate) consider a
very concrete "TRUTH". Are you suggesting that indonesian muslims know nothing
about the koran? Does mosque attendance HAPPEN?

Jews do not have legal status in Indonesia but perhaps you can tell me why Pancasila is filth.
Oddly enough, much of the hatred of Muslims on this forum is from Jewish members or those who strongly support Israel.

Personally, I don't hate anyone but I have to ask why you hate me as your posts regarding Muslims as a group must include me because I'm Muslim.

 

[irosie91]

This may come as a shock but most people in Indonesia have no clue there are any Jews here and most don't give a shit either way.
More so when you consider most people in the villages have no clue what Jews are because they managed a very poor or no education.

Bit hard to hate what you've never heard of.

As for moderates crying out against violence, most people simply aren't politically active, interested or educated so they don't.
Look at history, very few moderate groups ever do anything.

It does not shock me-----I have known scores and scores of muslims from
southeast Asia over the past 50 years ---from highly educated ---to the average
you describe----completely illiterate. As to your response to the purging of jews
from Indonesia----by virtue of the filth of Pancasila and the NON LEGAL STATUS
of Judaism -----I have no doubt that Indonesians simply do not know ----no one
tells them ----But your statement of "non hate" is a lie. Hatred of jews is prominent
in the KORAN which even the illiterate (actually mostly the illiterate) consider a
very concrete "TRUTH". Are you suggesting that indonesian muslims know nothing
about the koran? Does mosque attendance HAPPEN?

Jews do not have legal status in Indonesia but perhaps you can tell me why Pancasila is filth.
Oddly enough, much of the hatred of Muslims on this forum is from Jewish members or those who strongly support Israel.

Personally, I don't hate anyone but I have to ask why you hate me as your posts regarding Muslims as a group must include me because I'm Muslim.

You have proven yourself silly There were jews living in Indonesia at the time
that the filth of pancasila was introduced------they were ---by virtue of being jewish---
DISENFRANCHISED Pancasila with its policy of "ISLAMIC COMPATIBLE RELIGIONS
ONLY" is not all that different from the FASCIST GENOCIDAL filth of SHARIAH.
Thus----the filthy JIHADISTS of Indonesia-----DID COMMIT GENOCIDE UPON THE JEWS
OF INDONESIA------the overwhelming majority fled the filth-----now ---about a dozen
remain "under-cover" and the synagogues have been destroyed---by the FILTH.
Now tell me about the "BEAUTY OF PANCASILA" Israel exists today as a REACTION
against the filth you love. In fact----it owes its existence far more to the
FILTH OF SHARIAH than to the islamic hero ADOLF ABU ALI. Did you ever wonder why---
despite the fact that MOST JEWS----who left palestine migrated to what later
became muslim countries by virtue of murder, rape and pillage-----and only a few EVENTUALLY migrated to european christian countries---
as time went on the OVERWHELMING majority of the jewish population ended up being
european? I can answer that-------the filth of shariah ---LEGAL GENOCIDE.

On the other hand----I am delighted that you support a legal system in
Israel rendering ISLAM a NOT LEGAL RELIGION-----good idea ---an excellent
"LOVE AND PEACE" pathway to getting rid of the trash. It could catch on in
many many places. So nice to know that you do not hate those against whom
you support expolitation, subjugation and eventual genocide-
Lets see what group the PANCASILAISTS will destroy next.
THE SYSTEM was designed at its very outset-----by OMAR----to result in genocide.
PANCASILA is a dressed up version of the genocidal PACT OF OMAR.

Uhm----in Indonesian schools---do the kids learn how GLORIOUSLY PROGRESSIVE
AND JUST was the pact of Omar? Such is the crap fed to muslim students
in Pakistan-----and even in India ---yet whenever I suggest to your co-religionists---
that muslims in non muslim countries SIGN UP a similar style Pact and attain
the glorious status of protected dhimmis-------I get called an "ISLAMO-PHOBE"