CDZ "I’m The Scary Transgender Person The Media Warned You About"

[Witchit]

Well, I don't have this problem. My boy is a boy and knows he is a boy. But yes, I would suggest that a parent choose a therapist very carefully.

Lots of therapists are quacks.

Yup. That particular pendulum swings both ways, especially if one is wont to choose a "Christian" therapist.

I'm sure the vast majority of therapists are Christian. That is the majority religion in this country. Do you have something against Christians being therapists? What about Muslims?

Most of them don't bill themselves as Christian. With regard to Muslim, I don't want anybody basing their practice on a holy book rather than what they learned in medical school.

Most therapists probably do not bring their religious beliefs into their practices, unless they are specifically billed as such a therapist, like some pastors. You think that people should NOT be able to go to their pastor if that is what they choose to do?

You keep changing your position, I can't keep up. You JUST got done saying most therapists are Christian therapists, then when I point out the difference, you dosi-do.

 

[ChrisL]

Lots of therapists are quacks.

Yup. That particular pendulum swings both ways, especially if one is wont to choose a "Christian" therapist.

I'm sure the vast majority of therapists are Christian. That is the majority religion in this country. Do you have something against Christians being therapists? What about Muslims?

Most of them don't bill themselves as Christian. With regard to Muslim, I don't want anybody basing their practice on a holy book rather than what they learned in medical school.

Most therapists probably do not bring their religious beliefs into their practices, unless they are specifically billed as such a therapist, like some pastors. You think that people should NOT be able to go to their pastor if that is what they choose to do?

You keep changing your position, I can't keep up. You JUST got done saying most therapists are Christian therapists, then when I point out the difference, you dosi-do.

What? I haven't taken a "position." You basically said that it would be bad if one was to choose a "Christian" therapist. I made no such statement and took no such positions. I am merely asking you why you would say such things about the majority religion in this country which is mostly peaceful?

And if you think I am a Christian or even a religious/spiritual kind of person, then you are barking up the wrong tree.

 

[Witchit]

Yup. That particular pendulum swings both ways, especially if one is wont to choose a "Christian" therapist.

Christian bash much?

Having been to a Christian therapist who saw my mother next and promptly told her what was said in my session, no. It's not bashing. It's first-hand experience.

Further, when I told my pastor about the abuse, he said that was many years ago, you need to get over it and I said no. The abuse is ongoing.

He had nothing further to say and yes - he was a "Christian counselor" who parishioners went to in time of need.

Nobody should be doing counseling that does not have a basis in their education. Their faith should be secondary, and the education should still be foundational.

Sorry for your bad experience!

Thank you. And I will say up front that I have Christian friends who just by being themselves (loving, compassionate, understanding, empathetic) did much to undo the damage that was done.

So then, a lot of them would and do make perfectly fine therapists.

No, they are not licensed therapists.

 

[Bob Blaylock]

I wonder how much things have changed since 2001.

Human biology has not changed.

A boys is still not, and never will be, a girl; and a girl is not, and never will be a boy.

 

[Witchit]

I wonder how much things have changed since 2001.

Human biology has not changed.

A boys is still not, and never will be, a girl; and a girl is not, and never will be a boy.

It is nowhere near that simple.

 

[Bob Blaylock]

Human biology has not changed.

A boys is still not, and never will be, a girl; and a girl is not, and never will be a boy.

It is nowhere near that simple.

Yes, it really is that simple. Xxxxxxxxxxxxxx Sane people know the difference between boys and girls.

 

[baileyn45]

For me the most disturbing aspect of this whole issue is the hormone treatments being given to children. I've watched medical folks asked what long term repercussions there could be to long term testosterone treatments being given to a female child or estrogen to a male. Universally they reply "we have no idea". It strikes me as an experiment being conducted on children. What could go wrong?

 

[MarathonMike]

From what I've read, most transgenders after surgical and hormonal reassignment are not any happier than before reassignment. It would seem that if you feel "trapped" in the wrong gender body there would be tremendous happiness in being freed from it. Perhaps transgenders don't have a gender identification problem, they have a mental/self esteem problem.

 

[usmbguest5318]

Has anybody else (besides me) changed what they believe about the sexuality spectrum and everybody on it?

I can't speak for others, but for myself:

• Unless I want to have sex with someone, their sexuality is irrelevant to me.
• One's body parts, which ones one has, etc. are irrelevant to me unless I want to sleep with their owner.
• Transgenderism doesn't strike me as being about sexuality insofar as some trans folks are sexually attracted to the same sex they were before their transformation, thus making them homosexual transsexuals. Others are attracted to the sex opposite that that appealed to them before their transformation, making them heterosexual transsexuals. Frankly, I'm content with the sex to which I was born, so I'm neither in nor near a position to comprehend what it feels like to be so dissatisfied with one's sex that one'd undergo sex reassignment surgery.
• If someone thinks they should go about their life with the physicality of the sex opposite the one they were born do, whatever. Unless I'm trying to sleep with them, I don't need to know that they have even undergone the procedures to make that happen.

The above weren't always my views on the matter. They became so sometime in my 20s.

 

[miketx]

Creepy doesn't have to mean scary either. Creepy is anything that creeps you out, gives you the willies, etc. Kind of like vomit. While you aren't really afraid of it, you don't want it anywhere near you.

Be careful saying "give you the willie" around liberals.

 

[usmbguest5318]

For me the most disturbing aspect of this whole issue is the hormone treatments being given to children. I've watched medical folks asked what long term repercussions there could be to long term testosterone treatments being given to a female child or estrogen to a male. Universally they reply "we have no idea". It strikes me as an experiment being conducted on children. What could go wrong?

Universally they reply "we have no idea". It strikes me as an experiment being conducted on children. What could go wrong?

Well, that remains to be seen.

I understand you're remarks derive from some sort of altruism; that you have some is commendable. By the same token, however, it's not my place, or anyone's IMO, to have strong direct-affect views on a very rarefied matter about which I have no first-person perspective and about which the affected people do have such a perspective.

If, say, a girl thinks she should have been born a boy, what am I to say about that? Hell, I don't know what it feels like to be a girl, let alone a girl who feels as though she's supposed to be a boy. I am equally challenged to understand what it feels like to be boy who thinks he should be a girl. I've spent my whole life as a male who's content with being so.

As goes the physiological risks, well, if a kid's parents become convinced it's the right thing for their kid to do, well it just is. It's not my place to tell someone how to manage the issues that confront their kids. I certainly wouldn't countenance someone's having inserting themselves into the decisions I made for my kids.

Lord knows, my parents briefly tried, and my wife and I had to "lay down the law" and let them know they could either butt out or not see their grandkids, for we were not going to let them exist as strong influencers in forming our kids' worldviews that contravened ours. You know as well as I that if I wasn't of a mind to forbear my own parents' inserting themselves that way, others whom I know cannot possibly have the extent of love and concern for my kids that I, my wife and my parents do for them most certainly will not be allowed to do so.

 

[Brian Blackwell]

Really good video. I don't know what religion they are, beyond "Christian" (dad is wearing a collar) but they just seem very cool, smart, insightful and accepting.

And here we have Joseph Sciambra is author of Swallowed by Satan: How Our Lord Jesus Christ Saved Me from Pornography, Homosexuality, and the Occult.

For a long time, I tried to convince myself that I was born “gay.” That God made a mistake or just made me this way. But it never made sense. As much as I wanted my body to be receptive like that of a woman, it just never was. My body was designed in a certain way for a certain function. Modern man, through science, can change the appearance, but it doesn’t transform the fundamental structure. I was born male. And nothing I could do or imagine would change that. The way God made me was good. When I was touched by evil, that which God made as good became the cause of my unrest.

It’s easier to believe that someone is simply born “gay,” or somehow assigned the wrong gender at birth, but there is more to this story. In the Netherlands, a country with a long history of LGBT acceptance and tolerance, the levels of mental illness in “gay” men remain higher than among heterosexuals. In Sweden, even those in a same-sex marriage still experience higher rates of suicide than those in an opposite-sex marriage. And 46% of trans women attempt suicide. The rates of those who have not revealed their transgender identity remain largely unchanged. Adults and children with same-sex attraction and gender dysphoria need love, but they also need the truth. And they need our guidance.

You and your family will be in my prayers,

Well, he's already got a pretty tenuous grasp on reality (see book title,) so I'm not going to lend him much credence. Just sharing the perception of a lot of people who don't see this girl's reality, just what they filtered through their own life lens.

Has anybody else (besides me) changed what they believe about the sexuality spectrum and everybody on it? Because there are a whole lot of people who don't have their needle buried in either 'straight' or 'gay.'

I think it’s important to remind ourselves that it’s OK - even appropriate - to simply not have an opinion on matters wholly outside our own experience.

Our democratic republic tempts us to take a position on every issue - even those that don’t directly effect us, or that we have no business chiming in on. It further encourages us to transmute our uninformed opinion into violent coercion via governmental law by voting with these issues in mind.

Why should I have a “stance” on LGBT issues specifically? I’m not included in that group. I do have opinions on issues concerning humanity in general, and primary among them is self-ownership, i.e. freedom.

Whether law tells me I must discriminate, or it tells me I must not, it is illegitimate. I am bound by natural law, logic, and my own conscience to respect the self-ownership of others, and to treat them with the same respect I deserve, being of no more or less inherent value than them.

If you share your experience with me - be it about gender identification, encounters with aliens or ghosts, being touched by God or anything else outside my own perception - I accept it and do not presume to judge it. If you ask me to use a certain pronoun in your presence, I will make an honest effort to do so. If businesses want to build extra bathrooms, or people willingly choose to provide other accomodations to make people more comfortable, that’s wonderful.

However, I cannot abide the interference of law in any matter that does not concern fraud or aggressive force being used against an innocent person, even if it is intended to support fair recognition and equal treatment of individuals.

Kindness, social respect and love is a choice. People do not have a “right” to it. You have a right not to be robbed or attacked, but that’s all. The rest must come by encouraging the world to commit to wisdom and morality. As great a task as it may seem, that is the work. We must resist the temptation to shortcut this labor by leveraging the immoral application of coercive governmental law if we ever hope to achieve a truly peaceful and prosperous society.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Our society assumes there is only one way to be male and one way to be female. In reality it isn't that specific; most of the attitude is cultural rather than natural. I think kids should not be encouraged to make any definite assumptions about their gender orientation until they are adults (18 minimum). We need to evolve culturally. We are stuck in social attitudes that have been with us since the beginning of human civilization and are as primitive as early civilization.

Oh yeah, everyone else that's come before were morons, that's such an enlightened attitude that SJW's have. Why didn't anybody think of that before?


/sarcasm.

The point is that most people don't have these types of issues. Most people know and accept what they are and don't pressure others to join in some fantasy la la land that they want to live in.

Wrong.

No one is ‘pressuring’ anyone to do anything.

Rightwing bigots are at complete liberty to hate gay and transgender Americans.

And laws enacted by the people to protect gay and transgender Americans from the ignorance and hate of conservatives isn’t ‘pressuring’ anyone, either.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

If that was my boy, i damn sure wouldnt contribute to his delusion. I strive to be a good, caring parent. Not abuse them emotionally.

I think it needs to be nipped in the bud immediately and not encouraged at all. You let your boy know he is a boy. No, he cannot wear a dress to school. That is what the girls wear.

And here we have a perfect example of conservative authoritarianism, and the right’s unwarranted fear of diversity and expressions of individual liberty.

Conservativism is the bane of the American Nation.

 

[baileyn45]

For me the most disturbing aspect of this whole issue is the hormone treatments being given to children. I've watched medical folks asked what long term repercussions there could be to long term testosterone treatments being given to a female child or estrogen to a male. Universally they reply "we have no idea". It strikes me as an experiment being conducted on children. What could go wrong?

Universally they reply "we have no idea". It strikes me as an experiment being conducted on children. What could go wrong?

Well, that remains to be seen.

I understand you're remarks derive from some sort of altruism; that you have some is commendable. By the same token, however, it's not my place, or anyone's IMO, to have strong direct-affect views on a very rarefied matter about which I have no first-person perspective and about which the affected people do have such a perspective.

If, say, a girl thinks she should have been born a boy, what am I to say about that? Hell, I don't know what it feels like to be a girl, let alone a girl who feels as though she's supposed to be a boy. I am equally challenged to understand what it feels like to be boy who thinks he should be a girl. I've spent my whole life as a male who's content with being so.

As goes the physiological risks, well, if a kid's parents become convinced it's the right thing for their kid to do, well it just is. It's not my place to tell someone how to manage the issues that confront their kids. I certainly wouldn't countenance someone's having inserting themselves into the decisions I made for my kids.

Lord knows, my parents briefly tried, and my wife and I had to "lay down the law" and let them know they could either butt out or not see their grandkids, for we were not going to let them exist as strong influencers in forming our kids' worldviews that contravened ours. You know as well as I that if I wasn't of a mind to forbear my own parents' inserting themselves that way, others whom I know cannot possibly have the extent of love and concern for my kids that I, my wife and my parents do for them most certainly will not be allowed to do so.

This is where I think this whole issue goes of the rail. For me this isn't about the parents or even the child themself, it's about the medical field. What are the repercussions of pumping children full of hormones? It strikes me that there is a lowering of standards for this one instance. I don't understand that. What happened to standards of care, the hippocratic oath?

In addition, I've watched a number of debates on the transgender issue. One question that arises is, why was transgenderism changed from a disorder to a dysphoria( I think, I'm in no way an expert)? Every time the answers are the same, is there new research? No.Is there a new school of thought backed up by observation? No. It's political. That's dangerous. In a population that has a lifetime suicide attempt rate of 40% making decisions based on politics is obscene and dangerous. And this is at the level of national governing bodies. That's worrisome, at the least.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

And how far does that go, in your estimation? If a girl wants to play with cars and trucks? Okay or not okay.

If a boy wants to play with dolls? Okay or not okay.

Are the bulk of the people here parents? Is it recent enough that you remember what it's like to cross an adamant two year-old.

I'm just trying to follow along with how you think you'd handle it - and if you realize that in all likelihood all you've done is driven your child's thoughts, beliefs and perceptions underground.

Correct.

Only to make it that much more difficult and painful for one’s child to express those thoughts, beliefs, and perceptions later in life.

A gay individual cannot be compelled to be straight just as transgender individual cannot be compelled to conform to his birth gender.

 

[Witchit]

Anybody here ever see the video for "Take Me to Church?" This kind of thing is happening in Russia, and it's been happening here, though less as people became more educated and aware. Now Trump is making hate okay again ("Get out those tiki torches!!") and people wonder why those of us who lean left are getting very nervous.

 

[usmbguest5318]

For me the most disturbing aspect of this whole issue is the hormone treatments being given to children. I've watched medical folks asked what long term repercussions there could be to long term testosterone treatments being given to a female child or estrogen to a male. Universally they reply "we have no idea". It strikes me as an experiment being conducted on children. What could go wrong?

Universally they reply "we have no idea". It strikes me as an experiment being conducted on children. What could go wrong?

Well, that remains to be seen.

I understand you're remarks derive from some sort of altruism; that you have some is commendable. By the same token, however, it's not my place, or anyone's IMO, to have strong direct-affect views on a very rarefied matter about which I have no first-person perspective and about which the affected people do have such a perspective.

If, say, a girl thinks she should have been born a boy, what am I to say about that? Hell, I don't know what it feels like to be a girl, let alone a girl who feels as though she's supposed to be a boy. I am equally challenged to understand what it feels like to be boy who thinks he should be a girl. I've spent my whole life as a male who's content with being so.

As goes the physiological risks, well, if a kid's parents become convinced it's the right thing for their kid to do, well it just is. It's not my place to tell someone how to manage the issues that confront their kids. I certainly wouldn't countenance someone's having inserting themselves into the decisions I made for my kids.

Lord knows, my parents briefly tried, and my wife and I had to "lay down the law" and let them know they could either butt out or not see their grandkids, for we were not going to let them exist as strong influencers in forming our kids' worldviews that contravened ours. You know as well as I that if I wasn't of a mind to forbear my own parents' inserting themselves that way, others whom I know cannot possibly have the extent of love and concern for my kids that I, my wife and my parents do for them most certainly will not be allowed to do so.

This is where I think this whole issue goes of the rail. For me this isn't about the parents or even the child themself, it's about the medical field. What are the repercussions of pumping children full of hormones? It strikes me that there is a lowering of standards for this one instance. I don't understand that. What happened to standards of care, the hippocratic oath?

In addition, I've watched a number of debates on the transgender issue. One question that arises is, why was transgenderism changed from a disorder to a dysphoria( I think, I'm in no way an expert)? Every time the answers are the same, is there new research? No.Is there a new school of thought backed up by observation? No. It's political. That's dangerous. In a population that has a lifetime suicide attempt rate of 40% making decisions based on politics is obscene and dangerous. And this is at the level of national governing bodies. That's worrisome, at the least.

I've watched a number of debates on the transgender issue....I'm in no way an expert

1. I'm not sure where you watched such things. Researchers conduct their debates on matters of all sort in scholarly journals. One (or a group) of them does research, and publishes the findings. Other experts publish critiques of those findings and/or expand upon the findings by performing their own research into the matter or some dimension of it. Occasionally, a group of researchers organizes a project that expressly solicits multi-disciplinary contributions from researchers, and such things are thought of not as papers but rather as research projects. I know of one such project that pertained to transgender matters: Introduction to the Special Issue on “The Treatment of Gender Dysphoric/Gender Variant Children and Adolescents.” (See also: Instructions for Authors)
   
   Be it as a project or individually conceived research efforts, the process continues thus, and over time, a body of knowledge is developed based on all those findings there eventually forms among the community of experts a general consensus about the matter or key aspects of it.
   
   I suppose one can call reading those papers "watching" the debate, but it's odd that one would so describe the debate among researchers. Watching a debate among researchers at a professional symposium, conference, or seminar is surely a "watching" kind of thing. Is that the sort of debate to which you referred?
2. To the extent that debates form the primary mode by which you've come to be informed about the matter may be part of what's confounding your comprehension of the matter.
   • A debater's rhetorical purpose is to argue a point of view more compellingly than one's debate opponent. A debater's rhetorical purpose is not that of comprehensively informing listeners to the debate of subject matter being debated, to say nothing of doing so disinterestedly, though some audience members may obtain information as a result of listening.
   • While debating the matter, duly qualified debaters will make remarks that derive from/rely upon a level of detailed subject matter comprehension that lay observers of the debate lack; however, as laymen, those observers almost certainly don't know they lack those pieces of information.
   • To the extent debates are conducted such that the general public are the primary consumers of the debate, a number of factors, not the least of which is time, confound the debaters' ability to deliver the topical background knowledge lay listeners need to comprehend fully the topic and, in turn, aptly evaluate the merit of the arguments presented by the debaters. That said, lay listeners will yet form an opinion on which debater's arguments struck them as more compelling.
3. To get informed on a matter, one should consume content rhetorically purposed on informing rather than on persuading. Regrettably, too many people approach complex matters the other way round.

For me this isn't about the parents or even the child themself, it's about the medical field. What are the repercussions of pumping children full of hormones? It strikes me that there is a lowering of standards for this one instance. I don't understand that. What happened to standards of care, the hippocratic oath?

The Hippocratic Oath bids medical professionals to do no harm given what they know/what is known about a physical or mental status in which patients find themselves. It does not call doctors to refrain from taking action because something is unknown.

As goes transgenderism and the physiological procedures that transform one from male to female, yes, some of the long term effects are not known.

• Understanding Gender Nonconformity in Childhood and Adolescence

The same can be said of myriad nascent medical modalities, the maturity of such things being determined not by the passage of time, but by the incidence of occurrence and subsequent monitoring. Furthermore, discovery of the body of long term effects, particularly with regard to their being applied to minors, does not happen rapidly because there simply aren't that many kids who undergo the procedures.

• Serving Transgender Youth: Challenges, Dilemmas and Clinical Examples
  
• Endocrine Treatment of Transsexual Persons:An Endocrine Society Clinical Practice Guideline
  
• Guidelines for Psychological Practice With Transgender and Gender Nonconforming People
  
• Affirmative Practice With Transgender and Gender Nonconforming Youth: Expanding the Model
  
• An Endocrine Perspective on the Care of Transgender Adolescents

Between 1998 and 2010, 97 children underwent the procedures; however, up to 10K children (of the millions on the planet) are estimated to suffer from gender dysphoria issues.

One question that arises is, why was transgenderism changed from a disorder to a dysphoria ( I think, I'm in no way an expert)?

AFAIK, no such change has occurred. It's my understanding that the two are, quite simply, different things: one, a disorder, is a behavior and the other is a state of mind/being. Laymen may conflate and/or equate the two, but clinicians do not.

• What Is Gender Dysphoria?
• According to the National Institute of Mental Health (NIMH), disorders are thought of as “a clinically significant behavior, psychologically syndrome, or a pattern that occurs in an individual typically associated with distress, painful symptomology, disability or impairment.” (Source)
  
• Dysphoria, on the other hand, is a “psychological state that causes one to experience feelings of anxiety, restlessness and depression. It is not necessarily diagnosable, or something that would be identified in the DSM, but it is more a state of being, a feeling or unpleasantness or discomfort.” (Source)

As go dysphorias, if one attests to feeling a given way, who am I to say they don't feel the way they say they do? Though others may not be able to identify why the individual has his/her dysphoric feelings, clinicians are by their Hippocratic Oath required to, using the currently available information and research, try to help such individuals overcome their feelings. One of the ways used is helping the patient undergo the sex reassignment process; however, clinicians don't embark on that process lightly. They aren't nearly as acquiescent about doing that sort of thing as are, say, cosmetic dentists and surgeons are about installing crowns and doing rhinoplasty.

Every time the answers are the same, is there new research? No.Is there a new school of thought backed up by observation? No.

I have no way to remark upon this. What I can do is point you to the most recent literature review of which I'm aware.

• Gender dysphoria in children and adolescents: a review of recent research

It's political.

I'm sorry, but I find it very hard to believe that politics motivates any clinician to agree to and, in turn, help any patient through the process of transforming their overt sexual characteristics from male to female or vice versa. On the other hand, politicians absolutely consider, discuss and debate the matter and arrive at stances due to the political expediency of the stance(s) they take on it.

 

[usmbguest5318]

And how far does that go, in your estimation? If a girl wants to play with cars and trucks? Okay or not okay.

If a boy wants to play with dolls? Okay or not okay.

Are the bulk of the people here parents? Is it recent enough that you remember what it's like to cross an adamant two year-old.

I'm just trying to follow along with how you think you'd handle it - and if you realize that in all likelihood all you've done is driven your child's thoughts, beliefs and perceptions underground.

in all likelihood all you've done is driven your child's thoughts, beliefs and perceptions underground.

To be sure, doing that is about the last thing I'd ever have wanted to do. Not so much out of any desire to be permissive, as it were, but because my kids' issues of which I was unaware were issues I could not have helped my kids resolve whatever issues they faced and couldn't on their own overcome or at least manage effectively and without detrimental effect, or at least with whatever be the minimum possible (for my kids) nature and extent of detrimental effects.

 

[ChrisL]

Our society assumes there is only one way to be male and one way to be female. In reality it isn't that specific; most of the attitude is cultural rather than natural. I think kids should not be encouraged to make any definite assumptions about their gender orientation until they are adults (18 minimum). We need to evolve culturally. We are stuck in social attitudes that have been with us since the beginning of human civilization and are as primitive as early civilization.

Oh yeah, everyone else that's come before were morons, that's such an enlightened attitude that SJW's have. Why didn't anybody think of that before?


/sarcasm.

The point is that most people don't have these types of issues. Most people know and accept what they are and don't pressure others to join in some fantasy la la land that they want to live in.

Wrong.

No one is ‘pressuring’ anyone to do anything.

Rightwing bigots are at complete liberty to hate gay and transgender Americans.

And laws enacted by the people to protect gay and transgender Americans from the ignorance and hate of conservatives isn’t ‘pressuring’ anyone, either.

Not buying into the delusion (believing that the person is really the opposite sex/gender) is not "hatred." That is like saying if you don't believe in God, then you HATE religious people. Get a grip on your crazy leftist self with the strawman argument of "hatred" that you use to try to put pressure on people to conform to your views. If you want to believe you are woman, then all the power to you, but don't think that other people believe it.