Illinois law allowing non-citizen police may violate 14th Amendment

[johnwk]

So it's a privilege when you earn it, not before. Until then it isn't your privilege. How can an immigrant be said to have denied you something that was never yours to begin with?

The Illinois government, not an immigrant, is infringing upon the granting of that privileged occupation, which seemingly is reserved for citizens, not "immigrants".

If it [being hired by the state as a police officer] is a privileged occupation created by government with unique attributes, benefits and vested powers to be exercise which are not available to ordinary citizens, then the 14th seems to be violated since, for every non-citizen hired by the State as a police officer, there is one less employment opportunity for the citizens of a State to be hired as a police officer, thereby creating an abridgment of a privileged occupation for its citizens.

JWK

“There is no greater privilege than serving the people of New York City, and that privilege comes with a responsibility to keep yourself and your community safe," Mayor Bill de Blasio LINK

 

[Curried Goats]

The Illinois government, not an immigrant, is infringing upon the granting of that privileged occupation, which seemingly is reserved for citizens, not "immigrants".

If it [being hired by the state as a police officer] is a privileged occupation created by government with unique attributes, benefits and vested powers to be exercise which are not available to ordinary citizens, then the 14th seems to be violated since, for every non-citizen hired by the State as a police officer, there is one less employment opportunity for the citizens of a State to be hired as a police officer, thereby creating an abridgment of a privileged occupation for its citizens.

JWK

“There is no greater privilege than serving the people of New York City, and that privilege comes with a responsibility to keep yourself and your community safe," Mayor Bill de Blasio LINK

You keep repeating the same thing. What you haven't done is convince me that not getting a job is a denial of your 14th Amendment rights.

 

[johnwk]

You keep repeating the same thing. What you haven't done is convince me that not getting a job is a denial of your 14th Amendment rights.

Why would I try to convince you of that when it has nothing to do with the subject being discussed? What is being discussed is, being hired by the state as a police officer, which is a privileged occupation created by government with unique attributes, benefits and vested powers to be exercise by those hired, which are not available to ordinary citizens, while the 14th seems would be violated since, for every non-citizen hired by the State as a police officer, there is one less employment opportunity for the citizens of a State to be hired as a police officer, thereby creating an abridgment of a privileged occupation for its citizens.

JWK

“There is no greater privilege than serving the people of New York City, and that privilege comes with a responsibility to keep yourself and your community safe," Mayor Bill de Blasio LINK

 

[Curried Goats]

Why would I try to convince you of that when it has nothing to do with the subject being discussed? What is being discussed is, being hired by the state as a police officer, which is a privileged occupation created by government with unique attributes, benefits and vested powers to be exercise by those hired, which are not available to ordinary citizens, while the 14th seems would be violated since, for every non-citizen hired by the State as a police officer, there is one less employment opportunity for the citizens of a State to be hired as a police officer, thereby creating an abridgment of a privileged occupation for its citizens.

JWK

“There is no greater privilege than serving the people of New York City, and that privilege comes with a responsibility to keep yourself and your community safe," Mayor Bill de Blasio LINK

Not available to ordinary citizens? Since when?

 

[johnwk]

Not available to ordinary citizens? Since when?

Since every non-citizen is hired by the State as a police officer, there is one less employment opportunity for the citizens of a State to be hired as a police officer, thereby creating an abridgment of a privileged occupation for its citizens.

 

[DudleySmith]

You don't have to be citizen to join the military. I know a Sergeant Major who served with 2nd Armored, Ft. Hood, who was Irish, and retired back to Ireland. As a legal resident it should legal to hire them for civilian public service jobs, but I don't know for sure. If they can be EMT's and firemen they can be cops, I would guess. I can see where Illinois would be severely lacking in qualified citizens and have to hire foreigners. Federal level would be a different story.

 

[Rigby5]

Well reasoned post and a lot of words but what specifically in all that would prohibit non citizens from being in a state police force?

The police have special power, such as "qualified immunity".
They are members of a special club that we are forced to trust.
And there is no reason to be sure that non-citizens can be fully trusted.
And in fact traditionally they can not.

The only reason I do not personally really care that much, is that police already can not be trusted, since they have already been corrupted by the government bureaucracy.

 

[Rigby5]

That's what I was thinking. I have a government job and I don't usually feel too privileged.

Is this simply a case of the OP determining on his own what a privileged job is and isn't and subsequently trying the apply it the 14th amendment?

That's my guess.

Police are not just an ordinary "government job", but one where the people routinely point guns at people.
That would normally be an illegal felony.
So police are highly privileged and trusted.
It is not a normal job at all, in any way.

The only reason I would not have stronger opinions is that the current police are so trigger happy, and foreign police seem to do a lot better?

 

[Rigby5]

Not available to ordinary citizens? Since when?

He is saying that IF non-citizens are hired for a police opening, then that precludes citizens from getting that position.
So obviously the "since when" would be after any non-citizen is hired as a cop.

 

[Rigby5]

You don't have to be citizen to join the military. I know a Sergeant Major who served with 2nd Armored, Ft. Hood, who was Irish, and retired back to Ireland. As a legal resident it should legal to hire them for civilian public service jobs, but I don't know for sure. If they can be EMT's and firemen they can be cops, I would guess. I can see where Illinois would be severely lacking in qualified citizens and have to hire foreigners. Federal level would be a different story.

The military is not a privileged or trusted position at all.
The military follows orders in a rigid chain of command, and is pointing their guns at other non-citizens.
It is illegal to use the military on citizens.
(The Posse Comitatus Act)

EMTs are not privileged, and only act to help, not harm like police do.

It is not at all understandable how Illinois could be lacking in qualified citizens, with the huge population it has.
The biggest problem is likely from the War on Drugs, so they should just stop it.
The War on Drugs is inherently illegal and accounts for over half the arrests in this country.

 

[Curried Goats]

Since every non-citizen is hired by the State as a police officer, there is one less employment opportunity for the citizens of a State to be hired as a police officer, thereby creating an abridgment of a privileged occupation for its citizens.

He is saying that IF non-citizens are hired for a police opening, then that precludes citizens from getting that position.
So obviously the "since when" would be after any non-citizen is hired as a cop.

Forget the immigrant. Let's use that same logic in another situation, apart from one you're emotionally invested in and ask yourselves, can you walk into a police station right now and demand that they hire you and if they refuse claim that this is a violation of your 14th Amendment rights?

 

[johnwk]

You don't have to be citizen to join the military. I know a Sergeant Major who served with 2nd Armored, Ft. Hood, who was Irish, and retired back to Ireland.

We are not talking about our nation's military. The thread is about non-citizens being hired as police officers, arming them and having them police and arrest American citizens. And we are talking about how the above may violate the Fourteenth Amendment's "privilege" clause's protection for American citizens.

JWK

“If aliens might be admitted indiscriminately to enjoy all the rights of citizens at the will of a single state, the Union might itself be endangered by an influx of foreigners, hostile to its institutions, ignorant of its powers, and incapable of a due estimate of its privileges." ___ Justice Story

 

[DudleySmith]

We are not talking about our nation's military. The thread is about non-citizens being hired as police officers, arming them and having them police and arrest American citizens. And we are talking about how the above may violate the Fourteenth Amendment's "privilege" clause's protection for American citizens.

JWK

“If aliens might be admitted indiscriminately to enjoy all the rights of citizens at the will of a single state, the Union might itself be endangered by an influx of foreigners, hostile to its institutions, ignorant of its powers, and incapable of a due estimate of its privileges." ___ Justice Story

Resident aliens have Constitutional rights. Outside of a few restrictions, like for eligibility to run for President and certain national security concerns, if they're residing here legally , they have a right to work.

 

[pknopp]

Resident aliens have Constitutional rights. Outside of a few restrictions, like for eligibily to run for Presdient and certain national security concerns, if they're residing here legally , they have a right to work.

Unlike a citizen they can be deported BUT only after having their due process rights enforced. Many want to simply dispense with those.

Sadly.

 

[DudleySmith]

Unlike a citizen they can be deported BUT only after having their due process rights enforced. Many want to simply dispense with those.

Sadly.

Well, part of that problem is all the fake 'refugees' deliberately swamping the legal system and idiots enabling that abuse have pretty much discredited all such laws.

 

[Cellblock2429]

.
See: Pritzker defends Illinois bill that allows non-citizens to become police officers

From the article:



Now, keep in mind a fundamental principle of our nation’s founding recognizes and distinguishes citizens from non-citizens, as applied to a number of privileges, e.g., Article II, Section 1, Clause 5 of the United States Constitution states:

"No Person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President . . . "

Our federal Constitution also commands that:

“No Person shall be a Representative who shall not have attained to the Age of twenty five Years, and been seven Years a Citizen of the United States, and who shall not, when elected, be an Inhabitant of that State in which he shall be chosen.” Article 1, Section 2, Clause 2

And, Article 1, Section 3, Clause 3. states:

“No Person shall be a Senator who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty Years, and been nine Years a Citizen of the United States and who shall not, when elected, be an Inhabitant of that State for which he shall be chosen”.

And even the Constitution of the State of Illinois declares: “To be eligible to hold the office of Governor, Lieutenant Governor, Attorney General, Secretary of State, Comptroller or Treasurer, a person must be a United States citizen, at least 25 years old, and a resident of this State for the three years preceding his election.”

In fact, there is no state constitution which specifically declares eligibility for being governor does not require citizenship. Four or five states (as I recall) are silent on this eligibility question. But all the rest, either directly or indirectly, require citizenship to be a governor.

We also find that the privilege of voting is reserved to citizens, and the Fourteenth Amendment makes a distinction between “citizens” and “person” and forbids any state to enforce any law which abridges the “privileges and immunities” of citizens.

Seems to me Illinois law allowing non-citizens to enjoy the privilege of being a police officer with the power to police and arrest citizens of Illinois, may very well violate the Fourteenth Amendment’s text which forbids any state to enforce any law which abridges the “privileges and immunities” of citizens.

By extending the “privilege” of citizens of Illinois to be police officers to non-citizens, the case can be made that in so doing, the privilege of Illinois’ citizens to be police officers is being diluted, and thus being abridged.

JWK

“If aliens might be admitted indiscriminately to enjoy all the rights of citizens at the will of a single state, the Union might itself be endangered by an influx of foreigners, hostile to its institutions, ignorant of its powers, and incapable of a due estimate of its privileges." - ___ Justice Story

/---/ Time for the USSC to weigh in.

 

[pknopp]

Well, part of that problem is all the fake 'refugees' deliberately swamping the legal system and idiots enabling that abuse have pretty much discredited all such laws.

Not your call to decide.

 

[johnwk]

Unlike a citizen they can be deported BUT only after having their due process

Which is an expedited removal proceeding.

 

[johnwk]

/---/ Time for the USSC to weigh in.

I agree!

How is hiring non-citizens, by a state as a police officers, who are then armed and there to police American citizens, not a violation of the Fourteenth Amendment’s privilege clause, when the 14th states in crystal clear language, “No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States”?

Is it not a privilege to be employed by government as a police officer? If it is a privileged occupation created by government with unique attributes, benefits and vested powers to be exercise which are not available to ordinary citizens, then the 14th seems to be violated since, for every non-citizen hired by the State as a police officer, there is one less employment opportunity for the citizens of a State to be hired as a police officer, thereby creating an abridgment of a privileged occupation for its citizens.

 

[pknopp]

Which is an expedited removal proceeding.

Go for it. Raise taxes to pay for these courts.