Illegal Immigrant Can Carry Guns: Federal Judge

[para bellum]

No one in America that isn't a American citizen should be allowed to possess or carry a firearm. That is an AMERICAN right. I don't even think people who immigrate here legally should be allowed to own a firearm in the first 5 years of living here.

I tend to agree with this. Or at least to the extent that legal immigrants need to take a safety course, and restrict their shooting to licensed gun ranges for a period of time so that gun safety rules are ingrained.

I have seen too many people from countries that don't have a culture of civilian gun ownership, they come here and the first thing they do is go buy a gun, then post pictures of themselves on their facebook page waving it around like an idiot, ignoring all basic rules of gun handling.

Those people are AD's just waiting to happen.

Besides, if you're here illegally how can you legally own a firearm? You need a drivers license, social security number and so on to purchase a gun. Hell I couldn't even buy a shotgun last month without doing a background check.

And Form 4473 expressly prohibits illegals from buying a gun, and 18 USC 922 has been upheld several times post-Bruen.

Imo this judge misapplied the first test in Bruen, because "the people" as defined in Heller does not include illegal aliens. Failing the first test, there is no reason for her to go further.

As a practical matter, Flores itself is frequently cited as precedent, so reversing Flores will open the door for a lot of those other convictions to be revisited.

I know there are 14th amendment implications- there is some tension between "the people" in the 2nd and "any person" in the 14th, but 18 USC 922 does not strike me as an obvious violation of the 2A.

 

[Lord-Humungus]

Its clear you possess no more love of the constitutional law than this urban dwelling Obama appointed activist justice! I see an illegal alien toting about a firearm and its being shot on sight!

I would recommend you do that, jail
Is where people like you who can’t control themselves belong. Shall Not Be Infringed is pretty clear. Nothing in the second amendment says anything about citizenship as a requirement

 

[Harry Dresden]

Then those votes should be canceled in a national election.

they dont get that far.....in SF its only local...

 

[LeftofLeft]

It's what the NRA has been fighting for all these years.

Democrats are actually ok with anyone carrying guns with the exception of law abiding white conservatives.

 

[SassyIrishLass]

Democrats are actually ok with anyone carrying guns with the exception of law abiding white conservatives.

They look ridiculous supporting this.. but looking ridiculous is normal for them

 

[Wild Bill Kelsoe]

It's what the NRA has been fighting for all these years.

Either all of the Bill of Rights applies to illegal aliens, or none of it does. You can't pick and choose which rights to apply.

Want them to have free speech, freedom of religion, due process, jury trial, the right to vote (the last one is even more moronic now)? Then, you're just going to have to live with them having the right to keep and bear arms.

 

[SassyIrishLass]

Either all of the Bill of Rights applies to illegal aliens, or none of it does. You can't pick and choose which rights to apply.

Want them to have free speech, freedom of religion, due process, jury trial, the right to vote (the last one is even more moronic now)? Then, you're just going to have to live with them having the right to keep and bear arms.

Illegals are not citizens. They should be deported immediately upon illegal entry into this nation

 

[Moonglow]

14th amendment says that everyone in the US has rights and that includes the second amendment

 

[ThisIsMe]

I have to disagree with both of you. Unless they're convicted felons, they deserve the right to defend themselves with firearms. This goes to..some amendment..it's late, but whatever amendment offers them protection under the law and basic human rights.

I’m pretty sure the cotus was written to apply to citizens. The right to carry legally carry firearms surely was not intended to extend to people here illegally, same with the right to vote (though, states are now allowing that too, so, we might as well just wad up the cotus and take a shit on it, right?)

 

[The Duke]

I’m pretty sure the cotus was written to apply to citizens. The right to carry legally carry firearms surely was not intended to extend to people here illegally, same with the right to vote (though, states are now allowing that too, so, we might as well just wad up the cotus and take a shit on it, right?)

No. However, they are still people and afforded basic human rights in The Constitution.

I don't think they can buy a firearm through an FFL so they'll have to rely on private sales if they want to arm themselves.

 

[SassyIrishLass]

14th amendment says that everyone in the US has rights and that includes the second amendment

The 14th clearly states persons born in the US or naturalized as citizens

 

[Moonglow]

The 14th clearly states persons born in the US or naturalized as citizens

You'd better reread the part about; nor shall any person within it's jurisdiction be denied equal protection of the laws

 

[SassyIrishLass]

You'd better reread the part about nor shall any person with it's jurisdiction be denied equal protection of the laws

You better read what I said. It's nonsense anyway, no illegal could pass a background check and SCOTUS is going to kick this insanity to the curb

 

[Resnic]

I tend to agree with this. Or at least to the extent that legal immigrants need to take a safety course, and restrict their shooting to licensed gun ranges for a period of time so that gun safety rules are ingrained.

I have seen too many people from countries that don't have a culture of civilian gun ownership, they come here and the first thing they do is go buy a gun, then post pictures of themselves on their facebook page waving it around like an idiot, ignoring all basic rules of gun handling.

Those people are AD's just waiting to happen.

And Form 4473 expressly prohibits illegals from buying a gun, and 18 USC 922 has been upheld several times post-Bruen.

Imo this judge misapplied the first test in Bruen, because "the people" as defined in Heller does not include illegal aliens. Failing the first test, there is no reason for her to go further.

As a practical matter, Flores itself is frequently cited as precedent, so reversing Flores will open the door for a lot of those other convictions to be revisited.

I know there are 14th amendment implications- there is some tension between "the people" in the 2nd and "any person" in the 14th, but 18 USC 922 does not strike me as an obvious violation of the 2A.

True they need to learn how to properly use guns if they want to own one when a lot come from countries that don't have the gun freedom we do.

But for me it's mostly something I believe in to make sure we only get immigrants that truly love America and very much want to integrate into our society and be an asset to the country.

For me immigrants should.....

Have to pay a 8,000 dollar fee to become a citizen. Course I don't know how much it costs now.

No gun ownership for 5 years.

No voting for 5 years.

Nothing more than 1 misdemeanor charge in the first 5 years.

No unemployment gaps greater than 30 days in the first 5 years.

Must demonstrate they can fluently speak and write English.

No dual citizenship.

I'm all for immigrants but we need to make it a challenge to immigrate and work to become one instead of just letting people in just wanting that want to make money and send it back home, or have no love for America, they just simply don't want to live in a shitty country.

 

[Moonglow]

You better read what I said. It's nonsense anyway, no illegal could pass a background check and SCOTUS is going to kick this insanity to the curb

I don't get background checks when I buy a weapon.

 

[SassyIrishLass]

I don't get background checks when I buy a weapon.

Probably out of a car trunk and a deadly BB gun

If you're honest you couldn't pass a background check, you're on drugs. Ask Hunter about that

 

[Moonglow]

Probably out of a car trunk and a deadly BB gun

If you're honest you couldn't pass a background check, you're on drugs

I could but why let the govt know about your weapons, dumbshitz usually do tell the govt everything they do.

 

[SassyIrishLass]

I could but why let the govt know about your weapons, dumbshitz usually do tell the govt everything they do.

It's the law? You're looking ridiculous

 

[BULLDOG]

Less law abiding gun owners, more crime.

Does owning a gun make you a law abider?

 

[ThisIsMe]

No. However, they are still people and afforded basic human rights in The Constitution.

I don't think they can buy a firearm through an FFL so they'll have to rely on private sales if they want to arm themselves.

The cotus doesn’t mention basic human rights. The cotus is a check on the federal government.

Yes, ALL people are afforded basic human rights, but our COTUS, that document that grants the right to vote, the right to petition your government, the right to keep and bear arms, that document was intended for the citizen, not people here illegally.