IF higher taxes will create jobs, why did the stimulus fail?

[Sallow]

What does that have to do with wasting someones else's wealth?
What we are up in arms about is I am not rich
My tax bill will increase3-4000 a year when we go back to Clinton's rate, we can say If
but that was not Obama's original intent
thats been a saving of 35,000 for me
there are millions of us in that bracket

The "rich" are not the ones these wasted trillions are going to hurt

if you are not rich, and do not have kids, your tax rate can not possibly go up that much if the tax code reverts.

Most people are not advocating raising taxes on the every day joe...EXCEPT REPUBLICANS/conservatives like diamond Dave and Willow, who are pissed that some people pay no income tax once they take all of their deductions and child tax credits. they want to take these child tax credits away... everyone with children's tax burden would go way up, if that happens.

The middle class is where the money is. Taxing the rich (whoever they are) even more will not solve the budget problem.

 

[The Rabbi]

if you are not rich, and do not have kids, your tax rate can not possibly go up that much if the tax code reverts.

Most people are not advocating raising taxes on the every day joe...EXCEPT REPUBLICANS/conservatives like diamond Dave and Willow, who are pissed that some people pay no income tax once they take all of their deductions and child tax credits. they want to take these child tax credits away... everyone with children's tax burden would go way up, if that happens.

The middle class is where the money is. Taxing the rich (whoever they are) even more will not solve the budget problem.

People laugh at what they don't understand.

 

[Sallow]

Lower taxes under President Bush, got us nowhere but in debt up to our eyeballs, a recession bigger than anyone could imagine...

if the Republicans had cut spending equal to their tax cuts, then maybe we would not have been set up for this failure, as far as I am concerned.

it took until 2005 to collect as much in income tax revenues as we were collecting in the year 2000..... so for 5 years sstraight we collected less in income tax revenues before we saw an increase in revenues, which tells me that this time, tax breaks DID NOT WORK, did NOT pay for themselves.

If no tax laws are changed, year to year we would naturally collect more in revenues than the previous year based on our yearly growth in the economy...tax cuts did nothing under president Bush to grow the economy...nada.

What grew the economy under president Bush was the housing market and extra low interest rates, and the refinancing or home equity being taken out of everyone's homes that was used to buy things...is what grew the economy...the stupid housing BUBBLE.....to think otherwise, is foolish imho.

Tax rates had nothing to do with 9-11 and those events that took place after 9-11
2 recessions had nothing to do with tax rates, except for helping the economy in 03 thru 07
Tax rates had nothing to do with 6 major storms including Katrina
Tax Rates has nothing to do with the housing crises, the dor com bubble nor did it have anything to do with the meltdown in 08

GWB added about 2.5 trillion to the debt
those events above is where that debt came from in lost revenue and expenditures
not tax cuts
One can debate Iraq, but if so then the cost of the bases in Kuwait and Saudi that are closed would have added to the debt

This makes no sense whatsoever.

And point out how the stimulus raised taxes?

Because they didn't. If anything the stimulus lowered taxes..because that was part of the bundle that Republicans threw in the mix..then didn't vote for.

 

[Sallow]

The middle class is where the money is. Taxing the rich (whoever they are) even more will not solve the budget problem.

People laugh at what they don't understand.

Understand what?

Lunacy?

The Bush tax cuts blew the deficit sky high and did almost nothing to stimulate the economy. In fact..his administration encouraged some extremely dangerous behavior that nearly caused a total collapse of the US economy.

There are billions of uncollected tax dollars..and thats basically in the form of tax cheat tax dollars that could be gotten if congress funded the IRS properly. They don't want to do that. Why? Because it's the wealthiest of Americans that are sitting on the little pot of gold.

 

[8537]

I prefer theories that can be tested.

All of the modeling systems used by the CBO can be tested.

.

They state explicitly that they are using assumptions as to how many jobs a given amount of gov't spending will produce.

Well that's how modeling works, Rabbi. Without assumptions about responses to actions, models wouldn't exist.

A nd then they project the number of jobs based on how much was spent.
None of that correlates to the real world.
The CBO's numbers are bunk.

of course it correlates to the real world. When a person hire Boeing to build them a jet, Boeing hires or keeps people in order to build that jet.

Ditto, when the government hires Boeing to build a jet.

The Stimulus was a gross failure, the biggest of its kind.

I see you're trying the "If I repeat it enough, it will become true" tact. It won't.

 

[JRK]

People laugh at what they don't understand.

Understand what?

Lunacy?

The Bush tax cuts blew the deficit sky high and did almost nothing to stimulate the economy. In fact..his administration encouraged some extremely dangerous behavior that nearly caused a total collapse of the US economy.

There are billions of uncollected tax dollars..and thats basically in the form of tax cheat tax dollars that could be gotten if congress funded the IRS properly. They don't want to do that. Why? Because it's the wealthiest of Americans that are sitting on the little pot of gold.

Bush blew nothing sky hi
Budget 2011: Past Deficits vs. Obama’s Deficits in Pictures | The Foundry
tax rates had nothing to do with the debt
9-11
2 wars (yes there numbers are there with the debt)
2 recessions (one from Clinton, a slow down by definition)
Dot com bubble busting
housing bubble
financial collapse, tarp
There is all of GWB debt and then some and tax rates had nothing to do with any of those events except for maybe helping some people hold onto there homes

 

[Care4all]

JRK

president bush added $6 TRILLION to the National Debt not $2.5 trillion.

He began with $5.6 trillion in Debt and his last fiscal year ended with 11.8 trillion in National debt.....

maybe you can lower that by a couple of hundred billion if you count the stimulus spent before the end of his last fiscal year and call it adding $5.7 TRILLION to the national debt, under his watch....but in no way, shape or form, did he only add $2.5 trillion to the National debt.

 

[JRK]

Lower taxes under President Bush, got us nowhere but in debt up to our eyeballs, a recession bigger than anyone could imagine...

if the Republicans had cut spending equal to their tax cuts, then maybe we would not have been set up for this failure, as far as I am concerned.

it took until 2005 to collect as much in income tax revenues as we were collecting in the year 2000..... so for 5 years sstraight we collected less in income tax revenues before we saw an increase in revenues, which tells me that this time, tax breaks DID NOT WORK, did NOT pay for themselves.

If no tax laws are changed, year to year we would naturally collect more in revenues than the previous year based on our yearly growth in the economy...tax cuts did nothing under president Bush to grow the economy...nada.

What grew the economy under president Bush was the housing market and extra low interest rates, and the refinancing or home equity being taken out of everyone's homes that was used to buy things...is what grew the economy...the stupid housing BUBBLE.....to think otherwise, is foolish imho.

Tax rates had nothing to do with 9-11 and those events that took place after 9-11
2 recessions had nothing to do with tax rates, except for helping the economy in 03 thru 07
Tax rates had nothing to do with 6 major storms including Katrina
Tax Rates has nothing to do with the housing crises, the dor com bubble nor did it have anything to do with the meltdown in 08

GWB added about 2.5 trillion to the debt
those events above is where that debt came from in lost revenue and expenditures
not tax cuts
One can debate Iraq, but if so then the cost of the bases in Kuwait and Saudi that are closed would have added to the debt

This makes no sense whatsoever.

And point out how the stimulus raised taxes?

Because they didn't. If anything the stimulus lowered taxes..because that was part of the bundle that Republicans threw in the mix..then didn't vote for.

to start with I never claimed our income tax has been raised
I ask how are we going to pay for all of this debt and why did we add 600 billion for GM, Chrysler (Obama's tarp) and what ever else the stimulus was suppose to do

What makes no sense?

 

[Care4all]

jrk

please support your statement that GM was given 600 billion to bail them out...

that's simply not true.

in addition to this, the GM and Chrysler Bail out was initiated by president Bush, in 2008....he went around congress to give them his bailout.....Obama was left with following through with it by March 31st according to the initial Bush bailout for them.

 

[JRK]

Surely you are not saying that obama could have changed the direction of how unemployment rates were trending by the end of his first month or two in office. We do NOT live in a vacuume and at the end of obama's first full month in office, our unemployment rate was 9.3%....THIS IS WHAT Obama was dealt....8.5% unemployment rate in January, and 9.3% by the end of his first month there....

sheesh, you guys are playing dumb for partisan purposes ONLY.

what does a failed stimulus and the waste of 100s of billions left over from tarp have to do with the UE rate that Obama was dealt?
He told you and I with this 600-700 billion he would save or create 3.5 million jobs and here we are and we have 6 million jobs less now than we did when we started this mess

Libs think, you not thinking is a big part of the reason we are here in this mess
We lost the housing sector by pure greed and the only way this mess can be fixed is creating a new sector large enough and broad enough to replace it

Like shale oil
deep drill
opening up the tax payer owned lands to timber/farm/corn/ethanol
you want me to go on?

 

[Care4all]

Surely you are not saying that obama could have changed the direction of how unemployment rates were trending by the end of his first month or two in office. We do NOT live in a vacuume and at the end of obama's first full month in office, our unemployment rate was 9.3%....THIS IS WHAT Obama was dealt....8.5% unemployment rate in January, and 9.3% by the end of his first month there....

sheesh, you guys are playing dumb for partisan purposes ONLY.

what does a failed stimulus and the waste of 100s of billions left over from tarp have to do with the UE rate that Obama was dealt?
He told you and I with this 600-700 billion he would save or create 3.5 million jobs and here we are and we have 6 million jobs less now than we did when we started this mess

Libs think, you not thinking is a big part of the reason we are here in this mess
We lost the housing sector by pure greed and the only way this mess can be fixed is creating a new sector large enough and broad enough to replace it

Like shale oil
deep drill
opening up the tax payer owned lands to timber/farm/corn/ethanol
you want me to go on?

Please prove that we are showing 6 million less jobs from let's say March of 09 till today.....

 

[The Rabbi]

People laugh at what they don't understand.

Understand what?

Lunacy?

The Bush tax cuts blew the deficit sky high and did almost nothing to stimulate the economy. In fact..his administration encouraged some extremely dangerous behavior that nearly caused a total collapse of the US economy.

There are billions of uncollected tax dollars..and thats basically in the form of tax cheat tax dollars that could be gotten if congress funded the IRS properly. They don't want to do that. Why? Because it's the wealthiest of Americans that are sitting on the little pot of gold.

Spending blew the deficit sky high. The tax cuts contributed to the recovery from the 2001 recession, a recovery where unemployment never rose above 6% btw.
We were nowhere near total collapse. That is a lie.
We could turn this country into a police state too. BUt no one wants that. Most tax cheating takes the form of people doing side jobs for cash, etc. That is not the wealthy doing that. The wealthy hire accountants and lawyers to shelter their money legally.
Nothng you've said has any substance and of course no proof whatsoever.

 

[The Rabbi]

Surely you are not saying that obama could have changed the direction of how unemployment rates were trending by the end of his first month or two in office. We do NOT live in a vacuume and at the end of obama's first full month in office, our unemployment rate was 9.3%....THIS IS WHAT Obama was dealt....8.5% unemployment rate in January, and 9.3% by the end of his first month there....

sheesh, you guys are playing dumb for partisan purposes ONLY.

what does a failed stimulus and the waste of 100s of billions left over from tarp have to do with the UE rate that Obama was dealt?
He told you and I with this 600-700 billion he would save or create 3.5 million jobs and here we are and we have 6 million jobs less now than we did when we started this mess

Libs think, you not thinking is a big part of the reason we are here in this mess
We lost the housing sector by pure greed and the only way this mess can be fixed is creating a new sector large enough and broad enough to replace it

Like shale oil
deep drill
opening up the tax payer owned lands to timber/farm/corn/ethanol
you want me to go on?

Please prove that we are showing 6 million less jobs from let's say March of 09 till today.....

If he does that will you STFU and go away?

 

[NYcarbineer]

I prefer theories that can be tested. Theirs is reality-proof. Like you.
Are you angling to get pwned in yet another discussion with me?
When will you ever learn??

So by your requirements, no one can prove the stimulus worked OR didn't work.

By my requiremeents you have no idea what you're talking about.

In order to proclaim the stimulus a failure you have to make assumptions about what would have happened had there been no stimulus.

You just declared that assumptions render a study illegitimate, invalid.

Therefore by your standard no study that declares the stimulus a failure is legitimate if it includes any assumptions that cannot be, as you said, tested.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Tax rates had nothing to do with 9-11 and those events that took place after 9-11
2 recessions had nothing to do with tax rates, except for helping the economy in 03 thru 07
Tax rates had nothing to do with 6 major storms including Katrina
Tax Rates has nothing to do with the housing crises, the dor com bubble nor did it have anything to do with the meltdown in 08

GWB added about 2.5 trillion to the debt
those events above is where that debt came from in lost revenue and expenditures
not tax cuts
One can debate Iraq, but if so then the cost of the bases in Kuwait and Saudi that are closed would have added to the debt

This makes no sense whatsoever.

And point out how the stimulus raised taxes?

Because they didn't. If anything the stimulus lowered taxes..because that was part of the bundle that Republicans threw in the mix..then didn't vote for.

to start with I never claimed our income tax has been raised
I ask how are we going to pay for all of this debt and why did we add 600 billion for GM, Chrysler (Obama's tarp) and what ever else the stimulus was suppose to do

What makes no sense?

Your thread title makes no sense.

If higher taxes create jobs, then why was the stimulus a failure?

The If doesn't match the Then. The stimulus was a tax decrease not a tax increase.

Your thread title makes no sense, we've been trying to tell you that for several days now.

Wake up.

 

[thereisnospoon]

The original claim was that the government cannot create wealth. That would mean the the US public school system does not add any value to our economy.

That is daft.

Sir/Mam
The Us government does not create anything
the tax payer does
The rich
the middle class
Exxon
those who put part of there wealth into the pot, helps create that welath
every penny of it

IT IS 100% OF THE REASON WHY THIS COUNTRY CAN ELECT AN OBAMA, NO DIS RESPECT BUT IT IS FOR THE PEOPLE, BY THE PEOPLE

That's retarded. The government is funded by taxes to CREATE wealth in certain areas, such as education, infrastructure, law enforcement, anywhere the government action adds value to the economy.

Your semantics are comical.

You are actually going to post that nonsense? That government spending creates wealth?
Really?!!!!
Give some specific examples of a government program that creates wealth and while it does, operates under or at budget and on time.

 

[thereisnospoon]

People laugh at what they don't understand.

Understand what?

Lunacy?

The Bush tax cuts blew the deficit sky high and did almost nothing to stimulate the economy. In fact..his administration encouraged some extremely dangerous behavior that nearly caused a total collapse of the US economy.

There are billions of uncollected tax dollars..and thats basically in the form of tax cheat tax dollars that could be gotten if congress funded the IRS properly. They don't want to do that. Why? Because it's the wealthiest of Americans that are sitting on the little pot of gold.

Oh, no.....The tax cuts were just fine. GDP began to grow in the successive quarters. It was only until the democrats regained the majority in both houses did the trend begin to revert.
BTW, Bush was no stranger to social spending. As a matter of fact Bush was no conservative. He was a right leaning populist.
Historically speaking, each and every time the US Federal government lowered marginal income tax rates revenue to the federal government increased and as well as growth in economic activity.
The money belongs in the private sector because it belongs TO the private sector.
The problem here is government spends too much and not one person on your side of the aisle is willing to even give fiscal responsibility a look. You will not because that would be admitting defeat. Defeat in that your belief in government's ability to solve all of your problems and create this imaginary level playing field where those who have more are forced by government to give it ...to you.
The entitlement mentality of the Left knows no bounds.

 

[thereisnospoon]

It worked as planned.
PRO MEXICO
Another
YouTube - ‪detnews.com - Ford's most advanced assembly plant operates in rural Brazil‬‏
Another
YouTube - ‪GM's China Vision‬‏
More
YouTube - ‪Ford India Plant Visit By Motorbeam‬‏

There are two parties. You aren't invited to either one.

Looks good to me. US manufacturing has been held back from modernizing because they had to cow tow to the unions.

 

[The Rabbi]

So by your requirements, no one can prove the stimulus worked OR didn't work.

By my requiremeents you have no idea what you're talking about.

In order to proclaim the stimulus a failure you have to make assumptions about what would have happened had there been no stimulus.

You just declared that assumptions render a study illegitimate, invalid.

Therefore by your standard no study that declares the stimulus a failure is legitimate if it includes any assumptions that cannot be, as you said, tested.

Uh, no.
I can look at the claims made for the stimulus before it was passed and compare that to what actually happened. When the results fall far far short of what was promised I can say categorically the program was a failure.
I did not declare that assumptions render a study invalid. You are reading things that aren't there.

 

[The Rabbi]

Sir/Mam
The Us government does not create anything
the tax payer does
The rich
the middle class
Exxon
those who put part of there wealth into the pot, helps create that welath
every penny of it

IT IS 100% OF THE REASON WHY THIS COUNTRY CAN ELECT AN OBAMA, NO DIS RESPECT BUT IT IS FOR THE PEOPLE, BY THE PEOPLE

That's retarded. The government is funded by taxes to CREATE wealth in certain areas, such as education, infrastructure, law enforcement, anywhere the government action adds value to the economy.

Your semantics are comical.

You are actually going to post that nonsense? That government spending creates wealth?
Really?!!!!
Give some specific examples of a government program that creates wealth and while it does, operates under or at budget and on time.

Gov't created wealth for all the CA firefighters and other snivel servants who are collecting half their maximum salary in perpetuity.