“I Cannot Afford To Live”: Americans Get Emotional As The U.S. Economy Goes Off The Rails

[sealybobo]

Why would paying your fair share, require your wealth to not climb to an extreme rate? Not that there is any definition by which you can claim one rate is extreme and the other is not.

Wealth is not directly connected to taxes at all. Wealth is not the same as income.

Maybe you are a car guy. I don't know. Or maybe you know a car guy. I had a boss that as a hobby he would buy old old classic BMWs and restore them. So say you find a old Mustang Shelby GT, and you buy it for couple hundred dollars because it's all beat up and rusted. And then you repair the car, restore it, fix the body, get it in perfect condition. Now the car is worth $1 million. (that might be a bit high, but let's go with the illustration).

Your wealth went up by $1 million. Did you pay your fair share? No, you paid no tax at all. You worked on this car, and made the car more valuable. But you paid zero tax on that $1 Million of wealth you now have.

Similarly people who own homes have the same effect. My parents bought a house in 1983 for $103,000. Today that house is worth $1.2 Million. Did they pay their fair share of taxes on that $1.2 Million. No. They owned an asset that went up in value.

And this is how you want it. You don't want a wealth tax, because that would mean owning that Shelby Mustang, would pay a $300,000 tax bill. You would be forced to sell the car you worked so hard to restore, just pay the taxes.

Everyone with a house goes up in value, would have to pay massive taxes on it. They would be forced to sell their homes, just pay the taxes on their homes, for daring to go up in value.

You and my parents both paid your fair share, even though both of your wealth dramatically increased. By the way, my parents were just public school teachers. The reason they are worth multiple millions, is just because of wisely investing like this.

Now, let's talk about the wealthy. Elon Musk is the example I know the most about, so I'll go with that.

In the late 90s Elon built a company and sold it, used that money to start another company and sold Paypal to Ebay for millions.

Now in 2004 Elon Musk invested several of those millions into Tesla, which bought him a 17% stake in the company. When the company went public, the stocks were trading for a dollar, and the company was worth less than hundred thousand, and Elon was worth ten grand or something, no one cared. No one said he wasn't paying his fair share.

But fast forward 15 years. Elon Musk works 120-hour weeks. He is sleeping at the factory for 3 years to get the company successful. Then in 2021, the company becomes extremely profitable. The share price goes up to $400 a share. The company has a valuation of $1 Trillion.

Elon Musk still owns 17% of Tesla. 17% of $1 Trillion is $170 Billion.

But here's the kicker... Musk's bank account hasn't changed by a penny. Just like my parents bank account didn't change by a penny because their house went up to $1.2 Million in value. Just like your bank account wouldn't increase by a penny because you restored a Shelby Mustang.

You own an asset that went up in value. You still paid all your taxes that you owe. So did my parents. So did Elon Musk.

And if you just hold onto that Shelby Mustang and keep it in mint condition, it will increase in value. Same with my parents home. Same with Elon Musk's stock in his companies.

So everyone can be paying their fair share, and still have their wealth getting more valuable. This is why all the super wealthy people, are all tied to the business they created.

Bill Gates / Microsoft.
Larry Page / Google.
Steve Jobs / Apple.
Warren Buffet / Berkshire Hathaway.
Jeff Bezos / Amazon.
... and so on.

No one is earning a billion a year or something, to end up with a net worth of $100 Billion. They own an asset, the companies they built, and then those companies went up in value.

And they are all paying their fair share. All of them. Every single one. You paying your fair share, won't the value of y

our '65 Shelby Mustang GT going up in value, or your home.

We pay a progressive tax. The rich pay more because the poor don't pay taxes.

And stop pretending the rich aren't dodging taxes and taking advantage of loopholes that should be closed.

You've seen the link I provide that says Trump doubled the number of companies who now effectively pay no taxes. Effectively.

Twice as many companies paying zero taxes under Trump tax bill

The Tax Cuts and Jobs Act lowered the corporate tax rate from 35 percent to 21 percent. In its first year, the number of companies paying no taxes went from 30 to 60.

www.nbcnews.com

So if you argued that they were paying their fair share before Trump, how can you argue now they are still paying their fair share?

 

[AntonToo]

"GSE's AAA rated securities that mixed in sub-prime mortgages eventually contributed to the problem, because they weren't ACTUALLY AAA risk grade, which is, again, a risk management failure that happened at every level."

You said that, correct?

Now let's go back to the evidence I posted.
1997 First Union and Bear Stearns made a deal with Freddie Mac.....
Let's read it....



Did you catch that? Let me say it again....
"GUARANTEED BY FREDDIE MAC AND HAVE AN IMPLIED "AAA" RATING"

What part of this do you have a questions about?

Freddie Mac made sub-prime loan backed securities, guaranteed with a "AAA" rating.
Government under Bill Clinton gave bad loans a "AAA" rating.

Before 1997 not a single sub-prime loan anywhere was ever given a "AAA" rating.

And if your claim is that private rating agencies caused the problem, then why didn't this happen in the early 1990s before Freddie Mac gave them a "AAA" rating? Why not even the 1980s?
In fact, it was President Carter that made sub-prime loans even possible, by removing the limitations on interest rates. They could have randomly given a "AAA" rating to sub-prime loans in the 1970s.

But they didn't. And they didn't wait until the 2000s either. No they started giving Sub-prime mortgage backed securities a "AAA" rating only in 1997 when Freddie Mac did it.

Amazing coincidence. Just shocking. All these completely random unconnected endless coincidences. All these bad actors giving "AAA" ratings to sub-prime mortgages, and just by sheer chance alone, they all did it at the exact same time that Freddie Mac gave sub-prime mortgages a "AAA" rating. But you are convinced it was not because of any influence by the government saying they are safe? No chance of that at all?

And by the way, all the Democrats said this was good too. Maxine Waters and Bernie Frank, all said the GSE were doing a good job, and should do more. But nope, it wasn't them. It was everyone else. Not government. Couldn't be government. Impossible that government could ever do anything wrong.

Nobody gave sub-prime mortages themselves AAA ratings. Instead their risk was diluted by mixing them into a broader portfolio product that did get overall a AAA rating. This risk management failure was the problem, not the concept of securitazation that is alive and well today.


I will now REPEAT my post, so that maybe this time you can ACTUALLY respond to it instead of posting pages and pages of beside the point arguments.


Yes GSE's AAA rated securities that mixed in sub-prime mortgages eventually contributed to the problem, because they weren't ACTUALLY AAA risk grade, which is, again, a risk management failure that happened at every level.

You want to put some blame on Clinton admin? Sure ok, but when at the same time you give Bush admin a full pass for not only not fixing anything in 7 years leading up to the collapse, but actively pushing for EXPANDING GSE's sub-prime holdings (among all the other Home Ownership and deregulation policies) you just show your hand as just another tribalist politico with no interest for any sort of objectivity.

 

[sealybobo]

“I Cannot Afford To Live”: ​

Americans Get Emotional As The U.S. Economy Goes Off The Rails​

"I Cannot Afford To Live": Americans Get Emotional As The U.S. Economy Goes Off The Rails

As we approach what is likely to be the most chaotic presidential election in U.S. history, trouble signs are starting to erupt for the U.S. economy. In fact, CNN is actually admitting that "the long-predicted

theeconomiccollapseblog.com

10 Apr 2024 ~~ By Michael Snyder

As we approach what is likely to be the most chaotic presidential election in U.S. history, trouble signs are starting to erupt for the U.S. economy. In fact, CNN is actually admitting that “the long-predicted storm clouds in the economy may actually be forming”. I can’t remember the last time that I saw a CNN article with a headline like that. But at this point, it is becoming extremely difficult for the mainstream media to avoid the truth. Inflation is getting worse at the same time that many key sectors of our economy are slowing down. If you thought that the last couple of years were rough for the economy, just wait until you see what is coming next. Tremendous turmoil is on the horizon, and the American people are becoming increasingly emotional about our rapidly growing economic problems.
On Wednesday, we learned that prices jumped even more than expected during the month of March…
~Snip~
For example, Fox Business is reporting that the cost of energy “is up 36.9% from where it was in Jan. 2021″…

Tuesday’s inflation numbers punctuate what has been a dreadful three years for energy consumers. The overall cost of energy in March is up 36.9% from where it was in Jan. 2021, according to the Department of Labor’s Bureau of Labor Statistics.​

Of course energy prices are going to go a lot higher than they are right now.
~Snip~
Just like me, so many of you can feel what is coming.
A tipping point has arrived, and the outlook for the months ahead is very bleak.
The U.S. economy is going off the rails, and the worse things get the more frustrated the American people are going to become.


Commentary:
Not according to our 46th president and his administration. We are doing so well, we don’t have to worry about the cost of illegals or of forgiving student loans, and we can freely help Ukraine with many hundreds of billions of dollars for something that could have been handled with a peace treaty.
Everything is fine!
Don't worry about housing, food, or fuel for heating, cooking or transportation. Our president has it covered.
Yes, The Rats in Washington have it covered. They tell us they won’t cut Social Security benefits, but they have no problem creating high inflation, or fudging the numbers to limit Social Security COLA’s for retirees.
The next round of inflation is going to be absolutely brutal. Many already on the brink who never would've considered crime will start to ponder it.
America's largely service sector economy will take a massive hit as what little discretionary spending still exists evaporates and near-minimum wage workers can barely afford to commute.
What happens when rural youth begin behaving like urban youth?
There is a level of hardship at which this starts to happen en-masse.

Twice as many companies paying zero taxes under Trump tax bill

The Tax Cuts and Jobs Act lowered the corporate tax rate from 35 percent to 21 percent. In its first year, the number of companies paying no taxes went from 30 to 60.

www.nbcnews.com

I wonder why you can't afford to live in America anymore. The rich don't pay taxes, corporations don't pay taxes. So no shit the tax burden has been shifted on to you sucker. And you voted for it.

 

[leftwinger]

Stronger than it was after Democrats screwed it up.

I don't think abortion will decide the election. In fact it doesn't really show up on important topics.
The economy is high, immigration is high, inflation is high on the list, crime and homelessness is sort of high.... and then just poor leadership... which is exclusively Biden is senile problem.

I don't see abortion anywhere near the top of any list of important factors.

Thats just what they say so when they commit tens of millions bogus ballots they can say "the results agree with our predictions".

 

[Andylusion]

This has to be bullshit. I look at how my dad lives after only working 20 years for a union and I look at white uneducated blue collar workers today living in economic despair. You're kidding right?

Since union membership went from 35% of our workforce, CEO pay went up 1322% and your pay went up 18%. You're an idiot. And you say they pay their fair share? LOL.

Why Are So Many Middle-Aged White Americans Dying?​

WHY? Because they aren't making union money!!!

Why Are So Many Middle-Aged White Americans Dying?

A new report offers one explanation as to why the mortality rate for uneducated white Americans has risen—even as people elsewhere are living longer and healthier.

www.theatlantic.com

It's so obvious. Bush/Republicans sent all their good paying jobs overseas. Now they are on drugs, committing crimes, suicide, od'ing, specifically uneducated WHITES. Why? They lost those good paying jobs.

Yes, they are paying their fair share. That's undeniable. The stats prove that.
The top 25% are paying 90% of all taxes.
How is that not MORE than their fair share?

Unions are driving people to unemployment. The Unions at Amazon are making Amazon automate everything, and lay off the employees.

See all those happy Union people making union wages? No. Because they are gone.


When the Unions unionized car wash workers, many car washes closed, and others converted to full automation. All the workers lost their jobs.

When the Unions at Hostess went on strike, the entire company folded. All the employees lost their jobs. The plant was bought out, and replaced with non-union labor, and now is profitable.

GM and Chrysler went bankrupt laying off thousands. The GM plant here in Ohio went on strike and was closed. It's now a non-union plant reopened by another company.

The union at Youtube resulted in the entire department being closed and all the employees laid off.

The Union brick plants here in Ohio were all shut down because the plants were not profitable.

The Union steel companies were shut down one by one, some bought by Japan and shipped all the equipment there.

How many examples would you like?

Unions destroy the workers they collect union dues from.

 

[Andylusion]

We are more wealthy now? Who's we? Uneducated blue collar workers?

Why Are So Many Middle-Aged White Americans Dying?

A new report offers one explanation as to why the mortality rate for uneducated white Americans has risen—even as people elsewhere are living longer and healthier.

www.theatlantic.com

Yes. I'm uneducated. I'm making more money than ever before in my life.
My relatives mostly all uneducated and they make six figures. Every single one of them actually.
Welders, pipe-fitters, electricians. Most all self taught. Southern Ohio in the Appalachia area.

Even beyond that, you are crazy if you think they are less wealthy today, than in the 1970s. Most people didn't have air conditioning. Old tube TVs, with three channels if you were lucky.
By every measure we are dramatically more wealthy today then back then.

 

[AntonToo]

Unions are driving people to unemployment.

Oh yes, who can forget all the unemployment problems...in record low unemployment economy.

Andy were you born this dumb or do you have to work at it?

 

[leftwinger]

And stop pretending the rich aren't dodging taxes and taking advantage of loopholes that should be closed.

Nice try dopey. You are in year 12 of Obiden rule. Yet you chirp the same as in 2005? If it NEEDS FIXING, why do your boys not do it?

 

[Andylusion]

Twice as many companies paying zero taxes under Trump tax bill

The Tax Cuts and Jobs Act lowered the corporate tax rate from 35 percent to 21 percent. In its first year, the number of companies paying no taxes went from 30 to 60.

www.nbcnews.com

I wonder why you can't afford to live in America anymore. The rich don't pay taxes, corporations don't pay taxes. So no shit the tax burden has been shifted on to you sucker. And you voted for it.

That simply isn't true.
The facts show that.

The top 1% are paying 40% of all taxes. In 1980 before the tax cuts, they paid only 20% of all taxes.
And corporations are paying all the taxes they are required to pay.
And honestly, I don't even know why you would want corporations to pay more taxes. No company anywhere, no business at all... has one single dollar that does not come from the customer or the employee.
You demanding they pay more tax, means that employees are paid less, or customers are charged more.
Why is that a good thing?

 

[Andylusion]

Oh yes, who can forget all the unemployment problems...in record low unemployment economy.

Andy were you born this dumb or do you have to work at it?

Yeah, the non-union jobs are hiring people. We already established that. That's why union participation is lower than ever. People who used to be union, lose their jobs, and get non-union jobs. That's why Union membership is lower than ever.

Didn't think that argument through did you?

 

[sealybobo]

Yes, they are paying their fair share. That's undeniable. The stats prove that.
The top 25% are paying 90% of all taxes.
How is that not MORE than their fair share?

Unions are driving people to unemployment. The Unions at Amazon are making Amazon automate everything, and lay off the employees.
View attachment 932963
See all those happy Union people making union wages? No. Because they are gone.


When the Unions unionized car wash workers, many car washes closed, and others converted to full automation. All the workers lost their jobs.

When the Unions at Hostess went on strike, the entire company folded. All the employees lost their jobs. The plant was bought out, and replaced with non-union labor, and now is profitable.

GM and Chrysler went bankrupt laying off thousands. The GM plant here in Ohio went on strike and was closed. It's now a non-union plant reopened by another company.

The union at Youtube resulted in the entire department being closed and all the employees laid off.

The Union brick plants here in Ohio were all shut down because the plants were not profitable.

The Union steel companies were shut down one by one, some bought by Japan and shipped all the equipment there.

How many examples would you like?

Unions destroy the workers they collect union dues from.

The top 20% are making 90% of the money. Give us some we will glady pay our fair share. Give it to you and you suggest that you are when you're not.

Actually I'm in the top 20%. I think 18% of Americans make over $100K

 

[AntonToo]

Yeah, the non-union jobs are hiring people. We already established that. That's why union participation is lower than ever. People who used to be union, lose their jobs, and get non-union jobs. That's why Union membership is lower than ever.

Didn't think that argument through did you?

Non-union JOBS are not unemployment. Duh.

 

[Andylusion]

We pay a progressive tax. The rich pay more because the poor don't pay taxes.

And stop pretending the rich aren't dodging taxes and taking advantage of loopholes that should be closed.

You've seen the link I provide that says Trump doubled the number of companies who now effectively pay no taxes. Effectively.

Twice as many companies paying zero taxes under Trump tax bill

The Tax Cuts and Jobs Act lowered the corporate tax rate from 35 percent to 21 percent. In its first year, the number of companies paying no taxes went from 30 to 60.

www.nbcnews.com

So if you argued that they were paying their fair share before Trump, how can you argue now they are still paying their fair share?

So you admit that the rich pay a dramatically higher share of taxes than the poor, by a vast margin.

So what the problem?

I didn't say rich avoid taxes as much as possible. I do too. So do you. So does everyone.

Why is avoiding taxes okay when you do not want to pay your fair share, but bad when others do it?
As for companies not paying tax, I don't see your point.
The number of corporations went from a massive insane 30 companies paying zero tax, to massive insane 60 companies paying zero tax.

Do you know how many corporations there are in the US? 9.1 Million. 60 didn't pay tax.
And by the way, that 60 is that year. Only that year they didn't pay tax.

What company didn't pay tax? Tell me.

Further, I don't even know why you want a corporation to pay more taxes. You want fewer jobs? You want less investment? You want less economic growth? You want more people poor? Why? Why would you want this?
There is only two places a company gets a dollar from to pay a tax with, the customer in higher prices, and the employee in lower wages. That's it. Why do you want them to pay higher taxes? How is that a benefit to anyone? You think if you jack up taxes that magically that money goes to workers or customers or something? No it doesn't.

 

[Andylusion]

The top 20% are making 90% of the money. Give us some we will glady pay our fair share. Give it to you and you suggest that you are when you're not.

Actually I'm in the top 20%. I think 18% of Americans make over $100K

Whether you tax the top 20% or not, the money doesn't go to you. There will never be a time where you increase taxes on others, and magically you benefit.

Further, if you want the rich to benefit the public, you don't want to tax them.

How do you think jobs and growth is the economy is created? By investing. How do you invest if you tax away the money?

If you taxed away the money Steve Jobs got from Apple Computer, Pixar would never exist, and the thousands of employees they have, would never have a career.

If you taxed away the money from Elon Musk, SpaceX and Tesla would never have existed.

In fact Apple Computer would not have existed, because Steve Jobs and Wozniak, had rich guy investor that helped them start up named Mike Markkula.

Taxing away the wealth of the people who make the entire economy exist, will hurt you, not them. They'll go somewhere else, and be fine. But you won't have any jobs.

 

[lafayette]

Stronger than it was after Democrats screwed it up.

I don't think abortion will decide the election. In fact it doesn't really show up on important topics.
The economy is high, immigration is high, inflation is high on the list, crime and homelessness is sort of high.... and then just poor leadership... which is exclusively Biden is senile problem.

I don't see abortion anywhere near the top of any list of important factors.

You don't believe our girls and women, and you probably never have. You will this fall.

 

[Andylusion]

You don't believe our girls and women, and you probably never have. You will this fall.

???? I'm just looking at the national polls. Abortion isn't a key issue.

 

[marvin martian]

“I Cannot Afford To Live”: ​

Americans Get Emotional As The U.S. Economy Goes Off The Rails​

"I Cannot Afford To Live": Americans Get Emotional As The U.S. Economy Goes Off The Rails

As we approach what is likely to be the most chaotic presidential election in U.S. history, trouble signs are starting to erupt for the U.S. economy. In fact, CNN is actually admitting that "the long-predicted

theeconomiccollapseblog.com

10 Apr 2024 ~~ By Michael Snyder

As we approach what is likely to be the most chaotic presidential election in U.S. history, trouble signs are starting to erupt for the U.S. economy. In fact, CNN is actually admitting that “the long-predicted storm clouds in the economy may actually be forming”. I can’t remember the last time that I saw a CNN article with a headline like that. But at this point, it is becoming extremely difficult for the mainstream media to avoid the truth. Inflation is getting worse at the same time that many key sectors of our economy are slowing down. If you thought that the last couple of years were rough for the economy, just wait until you see what is coming next. Tremendous turmoil is on the horizon, and the American people are becoming increasingly emotional about our rapidly growing economic problems.
On Wednesday, we learned that prices jumped even more than expected during the month of March…
~Snip~
For example, Fox Business is reporting that the cost of energy “is up 36.9% from where it was in Jan. 2021″…

Tuesday’s inflation numbers punctuate what has been a dreadful three years for energy consumers. The overall cost of energy in March is up 36.9% from where it was in Jan. 2021, according to the Department of Labor’s Bureau of Labor Statistics.​

Of course energy prices are going to go a lot higher than they are right now.
~Snip~
Just like me, so many of you can feel what is coming.
A tipping point has arrived, and the outlook for the months ahead is very bleak.
The U.S. economy is going off the rails, and the worse things get the more frustrated the American people are going to become.


Commentary:
Not according to our 46th president and his administration. We are doing so well, we don’t have to worry about the cost of illegals or of forgiving student loans, and we can freely help Ukraine with many hundreds of billions of dollars for something that could have been handled with a peace treaty.
Everything is fine!
Don't worry about housing, food, or fuel for heating, cooking or transportation. Our president has it covered.
Yes, The Rats in Washington have it covered. They tell us they won’t cut Social Security benefits, but they have no problem creating high inflation, or fudging the numbers to limit Social Security COLA’s for retirees.
The next round of inflation is going to be absolutely brutal. Many already on the brink who never would've considered crime will start to ponder it.
America's largely service sector economy will take a massive hit as what little discretionary spending still exists evaporates and near-minimum wage workers can barely afford to commute.
What happens when rural youth begin behaving like urban youth?
There is a level of hardship at which this starts to happen en-masse.

"I cannot afford to live" is the motto of the Biden regime.

 

[lafayette]

???? I'm just looking at the national polls. Abortion isn't a key issue.

Yes, it is. You live in mental illusion.

 

[Andylusion]

Nobody gave sub-prime mortages themselves AAA ratings. Instead their risk was diluted by mixing them into a broader portfolio product that did get overall a AAA rating. This risk management failure was the problem, not the concept of securitazation that is alive and well today.


I will now REPEAT my post, so that maybe this time you can ACTUALLY respond to it instead of posting pages and pages of beside the point arguments.


Yes GSE's AAA rated securities that mixed in sub-prime mortgages eventually contributed to the problem, because they weren't ACTUALLY AAA risk grade, which is, again, a risk management failure that happened at every level.

You want to put some blame on Clinton admin? Sure ok, but when at the same time you give Bush admin a full pass for not only not fixing anything in 7 years leading up to the collapse, but actively pushing for EXPANDING GSE's sub-prime holdings (among all the other Home Ownership and deregulation policies) you just show your hand as just another tribalist politico with no interest for any sort of objectivity.

So now let's go look at the facts, not just what you claim.

Bear Stearns, the CRA, and Freddie Mac - Cafe Hayek

I keep hearing that the subprime crisis was caused by people willing to buy stuff they couldn't evaluate. Why would smart people do that? One answer is that they were stupid. In an era of rising home prices, it's hard...

cafehayek.com

The $384.6 million in senior certificates are guaranteed by Freddie Mac and have an implied "AAA" rating. First Union Capital Markets Corp. is the investment banking subsidiary of First Union Corporation.

Freddie gave sub-prime mortgage backed securities a "AAA" rating by guaranteeing them.

You claim no one gave them a "AAA" rating.

Freddie Mac itself gave them a "AAA" rating by guaranteeing them.

Freddie Mac guaranteed sub-prime mortgage backed securities, giving them a "AAA" rating.

That is not up for debate. That is exactly what happened. If that did not happen, then Freddie Mac should have sued First Union for false advertising.

Did that happen in 1997? No it did not. They did not sue them for falsely saying that these sub-prime MBS were guaranteed and had a "AAA" rating.

So, you can keep saying these lies, but I'm going to keep posting the facts EVERY SINGLE TIME.

So back to you. Keep going. I'll be right here.

 

[Andylusion]

Non-union JOBS are not unemployment. Duh.

I said the unions caused their members to become unemployed. Only the dumbest of idiots would think that implies they stay unemployed for life and die.
Of course they get non-union jobs after the unions make them unemployed from their union jobs.
Again, that was obvious since Union membership is lower than ever before.