I am American, and I respect Christianity.

[Seawytch]

You do not oppose intolerance, if you did you wouldn't be trying to argue that insulting Islam is the same as killing people.

Since I never argued that, you're having an interesting conversation with yourself.

I said, and I'll repeat it for the cheap seats, I do no believe in painting an entire religion based on the actions of that religions most extreme spokesmen.

If that isn't clear enough for you, you'll have to have someone transcribe it to you in crayon.

You didn't make this post?





Or this post claiming that Rudolph killed because he is a Christian?

Funny, I don't recall Rudolph ever saying he killed because God told him too. Do you happen to have a link that proves he said this, or are we simply supposed to bow to your awesome awesomeness?

You could try keeping up with events as they happen so that people don't have to remind you of what was all over the news.

Army of God letters support accused bomber Eric Rudolph

I can keep this up all day, you are a bigot, admit it, you won't look near as stupid when you try to posture.

{sigh} He is an example of religious extremism. I don't think most Christians are extremist like him just as I don't believe most Muslims want to blow us up. Really still not clear enough?

 

[logical4u]

The Hope of salvation unto eternal life is Christ. This is the historical biblical faith. What is puzzling to me, is that so many who do not believe this, are so angry over the exclusivity of the message. If you reject it as false then what's your beef?

That's nice...just don't try to force it on us in the form of Civil law...ok?

Then don't try to corrupt something that was originally of the church into a fraud/scam/con.

 

[logical4u]

You missed the point too. Islamaphobes paint ALL Muslims with the same extremist brush and yet would get their Jesus Jammies in a wad if you did the same to them. Not all Muslims are extremists that want to blow people up just as all Christians are not extremists that think god hates fags and soldiers that protect them are burning in hell...or whatever Westborough believes.

Actually, the Islamaphobes are the ones who insist we should stop insulting Islam. Unless, of course, you also rail against Christianphobes who smear all Christians with the brush of the crusades.

Wait, you do that, and you cannot possibly be a bigot, can you?

Yes I am. I'm bigoted against extremism and intolerance...of all stripes and in all religions.

You must hate mirrors!

 

[logical4u]

No dave, your dishonesty wasn't correct, you can keep trying though, I know the dave routine.

You can prove I'm being dishonest by posting a link to your explanation of your statement.

Ball's in your court.

The balls are on your chin Dave, you've already shown me what you consider honest discussion and frankly, I'm not impressed.

If you'd like to readdress something we've already discussed than fine, if not...

Another example of liberal "class" and "graciousness".

 

[koshergrl]

I think he just flubbed up and posted his #1 fantasy...

 

[logical4u]

I never said that David Koresh, Fred Phelps and Jim Jones were the face of Christianity. Just as I don't say that Al Quaida or any of the other Islamist Terror organizations are the face of Islam. To Cherry pick extremists and assign those attributes to an entire religion is asinine. Sure, Islam....at the moment has the most prevalence of violence...and you misunderstood me...or actually, I forgot to add something that I had mentioned in a previous post either in this thread, or other other similar thread....That in that region, governmental Theocracy is the rule, secular governments are the exception. Look back, you'll see that I at least alluded to that. But when religion plays such an important role in everyone's daily lives, it very easy for extremists to take advantage of it....especially with uneducated/undereducated people with tight controls on their access to information.

Sub Saharan Africa, up until very recently, was the epitome of regional violence. Perhaps you are too young to remember Idi Amin and his regime in Uganda. in short, Darfur ring a bell? How about the pirates in Somalia? the genocide of the Tutsis at the hands of the Hutus in 94? I am sure there are many, many more...I don't have the time or inclination to dig up a comprehensive list. In short....just because CNN, FOX, or the networks don't cover it....doesn't mean it's not, or hasn't occurred.

I see you still prefer to argue with straw men rather than actually address the issues. Since I did not say you said anything about them, I will just ignore your attempt to deflect and get back to the fact that they were all about religion, just like the extremist/jihadists/idiots that use Islam as their basis for terror are.
Believe it or not, there is a difference between sectarian violence and terrorism. Sub-Sahara Africa never flew planes into buildings, they never blew up airplanes, they never hijacked any planes. Can you explain that if we assume that the root cause of terrorism is economics? What about the terrorists that come from rich families and have the advantage of university educations, how do they fit into your socio-economic model of terrorism? Does it explain bin Laden?

Of course not, so the obvious conclusion is that the root cause of terrorism is something other than you are claiming it is. I claim the root cause is personal delusions and/or religion. Feel free to provide actual examples of terrorists that do not fit into my model.

No...you'd just rather call everything that doesn't hive with your conclusion a "strawman".
Why haven't sub-Saharans fly airplanes into buildings? Could it be that their perceived fight was more locally influenced? Could it be locally influenced, because of a lack of marketable resources, the Western world has pretty much left them alone?

Your model is based upon your beliefs and personal thoughts.

The Bin Ladens of the world are evil....their followers aren't necessarily so. You mentioned Jonestown and Koresh....Do you think that all of those people were evil, or just their leader?...Better yet, do you believe all those people insane, or just brainwashed?

Just because, religion is the tool of these particular radicals, doesn't necessarily mean that the religion itself is to blame. That would exactly like using Koresh, Jones, Phelps, and other Christian influenced madmen and assigning those examples to the entire religion...my religion. I hate no man....I don't want ill upon anyone...there are many more of people like me than there are Koreshes and Joneses. Same goes with Islam.

Okay, if you have tens, hundreds or even thousands "brain washed" that is one thing. When you have billions "brain washed", that is absolutely a clear and present danger to every person that is not "brain washed". In the case of islam, one percent (that is the "accepted" number of extremists), that is 15,000,000 EXTREMISTS. That is a problem. If you (and people like you) do not want to admit that, then we will go another World War, where some piss ant wantabe dictator convinces the "less fortunate" to rise up and slaughter the piss ant's enemies. You will either be in his army, or you will be one of the "slaughtered" because you cannot see it coming.

 

[Steelplate]

I misremember...how many of Koresh's followers went out and bombed schools?

How many of mothers left Koresh **** their daughters? How many husbands let Koresh **** their wives? How many tried to get out of the madhouse, but were detained by the "true believers"?

All because they thought he was the second coming of Christ....why did they think that? He told them himself.

Grow the **** up and use the brain God gave you. Simple answers in a complex world are almost never even REMOTELY accurate.

 

[koshergrl]

Uh, ok.

So they didn't kill anyone. Got it.

 

[daveman]

No dave, your dishonesty wasn't correct, you can keep trying though, I know the dave routine.

You can prove I'm being dishonest by posting a link to your explanation of your statement.

Ball's in your court.

The balls are on your chin Dave, you've already shown me what you consider honest discussion and frankly, I'm not impressed.

If you'd like to readdress something we've already discussed than fine, if not...

So that's how it is, huh? You whine and ***** and moan that other people aren't answering your oh-so-important question...then you refuse to answer one of mine.

What a coward you are.

 

[Dot Com]

Uh, ok.

So they didn't kill anyone. Got it.

are you one of those "pregnancy from rape is a gift" conservatives too Thats a serious question you dummy.

 

[Steelplate]

I see you still prefer to argue with straw men rather than actually address the issues. Since I did not say you said anything about them, I will just ignore your attempt to deflect and get back to the fact that they were all about religion, just like the extremist/jihadists/idiots that use Islam as their basis for terror are.
Believe it or not, there is a difference between sectarian violence and terrorism. Sub-Sahara Africa never flew planes into buildings, they never blew up airplanes, they never hijacked any planes. Can you explain that if we assume that the root cause of terrorism is economics? What about the terrorists that come from rich families and have the advantage of university educations, how do they fit into your socio-economic model of terrorism? Does it explain bin Laden?

Of course not, so the obvious conclusion is that the root cause of terrorism is something other than you are claiming it is. I claim the root cause is personal delusions and/or religion. Feel free to provide actual examples of terrorists that do not fit into my model.

No...you'd just rather call everything that doesn't hive with your conclusion a "strawman".
Why haven't sub-Saharans fly airplanes into buildings? Could it be that their perceived fight was more locally influenced? Could it be locally influenced, because of a lack of marketable resources, the Western world has pretty much left them alone?

Your model is based upon your beliefs and personal thoughts.

The Bin Ladens of the world are evil....their followers aren't necessarily so. You mentioned Jonestown and Koresh....Do you think that all of those people were evil, or just their leader?...Better yet, do you believe all those people insane, or just brainwashed?

Just because, religion is the tool of these particular radicals, doesn't necessarily mean that the religion itself is to blame. That would exactly like using Koresh, Jones, Phelps, and other Christian influenced madmen and assigning those examples to the entire religion...my religion. I hate no man....I don't want ill upon anyone...there are many more of people like me than there are Koreshes and Joneses. Same goes with Islam.

Okay, if you have tens, hundreds or even thousands "brain washed" that is one thing. When you have billions "brain washed", that is absolutely a clear and present danger to every person that is not "brain washed". In the case of islam, one percent (that is the "accepted" number of extremists), that is 15,000,000 EXTREMISTS. That is a problem. If you (and people like you) do not want to admit that, then we will go another World War, where some piss ant wantabe dictator convinces the "less fortunate" to rise up and slaughter the piss ant's enemies. You will either be in his army, or you will be one of the "slaughtered" because you cannot see it coming.

So....kill them, right? Let me ask you something..... What do you think happens when you do that? You said it yourself.....BILLIONS.....with 15M extremists. What do you think happens when you bump off an extremist? You don't think that the rest of the extremists goes to those undereducated,impoverished masses without access to accurate information and says.....

"Look what they did to our brother! This is what they want to do you!"

They don't have to win them all over.....all they have to do is win over two or three everytime it happens. It's like a hydra....you cut off one head and two more grow in it's place.

What's next? Nukes? I'm telling you right now, if we do that? Not only will we be the biggest mass murderers in the history of the world, but we will also draw the ire of Russia, China, and the rest of the nuclear armed world.....and we may well be involved in a global thermonuclear war....all of that death....all of that destruction is NOT worth a series of small attacks from a bunch of extremists.

And I'm sorry....if it ever came to that? Then we'd be on the wrong side of the biblical battle of Armageddon.

No, the answer to this violence is not more violence. It's to get the NON-Extremists to fight the extremists....it's BILLIONS to Tens of Millions.

 

[bobcollum]

You can prove I'm being dishonest by posting a link to your explanation of your statement.

Ball's in your court.

The balls are on your chin Dave, you've already shown me what you consider honest discussion and frankly, I'm not impressed.

If you'd like to readdress something we've already discussed than fine, if not...

Another example of liberal "class" and "graciousness".

I'll call an ambulance for you, it seems Dave's butt-hurt is contagious.

I'm just a big old meanie poopoopants.

 

[bobcollum]

You can prove I'm being dishonest by posting a link to your explanation of your statement.

Ball's in your court.

The balls are on your chin Dave, you've already shown me what you consider honest discussion and frankly, I'm not impressed.

If you'd like to readdress something we've already discussed than fine, if not...

So that's how it is, huh? You whine and ***** and moan that other people aren't answering your oh-so-important question...then you refuse to answer one of mine.

What a coward you are.

Dave, you keep forgetting we're no longer at square one of this conversation.

I won't seriously engage with someone that refuses to give me the same courtesy. You had the opportunity, but you chose to act like an idiot. Live and learn...or don't, I'm not losing sleep over it.

 

[Steelplate]

Uh, ok.

So they didn't kill anyone. Got it.

Guess you didn't see the standoff and the end result.....or is it a case like Bripat in the thread involving mental retardation? So ******* biased that you just deny the truth
l?

 

[bobcollum]

I actually got TheInfidel to give me a half-ass admission that he wants to kill all the Muslims that hate to this degree. Of course I had to withstand his verbal assault for questioning his reasoning, but now that it's all out there and I've asked him to explain how it's logistically possible, his thread has gone quiet.

But hey, he's got bigger stones than KG, she still thinks the coyness is fooling everyone.

 

[koshergrl]

Uh, ok.

So they didn't kill anyone. Got it.

Guess you didn't see the standoff and the end result.....or is it a case like Bripat in the thread involving mental retardation? So ******* biased that you just deny the truth
l?

You mean when the ATF roasted the Branch Davidians?

Are you saying that the BDavidians were the ones who..offed themselves?

 

[koshergrl]

Or did they off someone else?

 

[logical4u]

No...you'd just rather call everything that doesn't hive with your conclusion a "strawman".
Why haven't sub-Saharans fly airplanes into buildings? Could it be that their perceived fight was more locally influenced? Could it be locally influenced, because of a lack of marketable resources, the Western world has pretty much left them alone?

Your model is based upon your beliefs and personal thoughts.

The Bin Ladens of the world are evil....their followers aren't necessarily so. You mentioned Jonestown and Koresh....Do you think that all of those people were evil, or just their leader?...Better yet, do you believe all those people insane, or just brainwashed?

Just because, religion is the tool of these particular radicals, doesn't necessarily mean that the religion itself is to blame. That would exactly like using Koresh, Jones, Phelps, and other Christian influenced madmen and assigning those examples to the entire religion...my religion. I hate no man....I don't want ill upon anyone...there are many more of people like me than there are Koreshes and Joneses. Same goes with Islam.

Okay, if you have tens, hundreds or even thousands "brain washed" that is one thing. When you have billions "brain washed", that is absolutely a clear and present danger to every person that is not "brain washed". In the case of islam, one percent (that is the "accepted" number of extremists), that is 15,000,000 EXTREMISTS. That is a problem. If you (and people like you) do not want to admit that, then we will go another World War, where some piss ant wantabe dictator convinces the "less fortunate" to rise up and slaughter the piss ant's enemies. You will either be in his army, or you will be one of the "slaughtered" because you cannot see it coming.

So....kill them, right? Let me ask you something..... What do you think happens when you do that? You said it yourself.....BILLIONS.....with 15M extremists. What do you think happens when you bump off an extremist? You don't think that the rest of the extremists goes to those undereducated,impoverished masses without access to accurate information and says.....

"Look what they did to our brother! This is what they want to do you!"

They don't have to win them all over.....all they have to do is win over two or three everytime it happens. It's like a hydra....you cut off one head and two more grow in it's place.

What's next? Nukes? I'm telling you right now, if we do that? Not only will we be the biggest mass murderers in the history of the world, but we will also draw the ire of Russia, China, and the rest of the nuclear armed world.....and we may well be involved in a global thermonuclear war....all of that death....all of that destruction is NOT worth a series of small attacks from a bunch of extremists.

And I'm sorry....if it ever came to that? Then we'd be on the wrong side of the biblical battle of Armageddon.

No, the answer to this violence is not more violence. It's to get the NON-Extremists to fight the extremists....it's BILLIONS to Tens of Millions.

Where did "I" say "kill them"?

I said, ignore them at your own peril.

I believe that we should call evil, evil.

If you want to defeat the "extremists", educate, educate, educate. Use radio free ME. Drop pamplets that show alternative lives. Drop pictures of other places. Make it so people have a "choice". Extremism isn't the only profitable way to live.

 

[Steelplate]

I actually got TheInfidel to give me a half-ass admission that he wants to kill all the Muslims that hate to this degree. Of course I had to withstand his verbal assault for questioning his reasoning, but now that it's all out there and I've asked him to explain how it's logistically possible, his thread has gone quiet.

But hey, he's got bigger stones than KG, she still thinks the coyness is fooling everyone.

It's not possible. The best we can do is show the non-extremists that we DON'T want to kill them and get them turned against the extremists.

It happened in Libya after the embassy attack....going in there with our cocks hanging out is going to nothing for our long term prospects.

We've got to back off on the testosterone a little.

 

[bobcollum]

I actually got TheInfidel to give me a half-ass admission that he wants to kill all the Muslims that hate to this degree. Of course I had to withstand his verbal assault for questioning his reasoning, but now that it's all out there and I've asked him to explain how it's logistically possible, his thread has gone quiet.

But hey, he's got bigger stones than KG, she still thinks the coyness is fooling everyone.

It's not possible. The best we can do is show the non-extremists that we DON'T want to kill them and get them turned against the extremists.

It happened in Libya after the embassy attack....going in there with our cocks hanging out is going to nothing for our long term prospects.

We've got to back off on the testosterone a little.

Of course, I know that.

I also know that's what people like KG are angling at, but she doesn't have the conviction to say it, she has to pussyfoot.