How Conservatism Killed The GOP

[gatortarian]

The alternative: bankruptcy. "The risk is greater today," GM President and Chief Executive Officer Fritz Henderson said Monday.

That's what the law says should happen. Sucks to be Ford. I own my own business and I can't even imagine the government coming and bailing out my competition right when I had them beat. Why even give a shit if the government is just going to bail you out in the end. What a crock of shit.

The law says that? I don't think so. And it was the government's job to save the economy when the nation and the world was in danger of economic collapse.

When did that become the job of the government? Where is the Constitution does it give the federal government permission to bail out a company?

 

[Dante]

This

Is what I am talking about.

The alternative: bankruptcy. "The risk is greater today," GM President and Chief Executive Officer Fritz Henderson said Monday.

That's what the law says should happen. Sucks to be Ford. I own my own business and I can't even imagine the government coming and bailing out my competition right when I had them beat. Why even give a shit if the government is just going to bail you out in the end. What a crock of shit.

You own a business. Obama bailed out an industry. If you do not acknowledge the differences you are being deceitful or willfully ignorant.

 

[gatortarian]

The law says that?

Yes, you know bankruptcy laws.

 

[gatortarian]

The alternative: bankruptcy. "The risk is greater today," GM President and Chief Executive Officer Fritz Henderson said Monday.

That's what the law says should happen. Sucks to be Ford. I own my own business and I can't even imagine the government coming and bailing out my competition right when I had them beat. Why even give a shit if the government is just going to bail you out in the end. What a crock of shit.

You own a business. Obama bailed out an industry. If you do not acknowledge the differences you are being deceitful or willfully ignorant.

You mean we couldn't buy cars if GM went under? No Ford, no Toyota no Volkswagen?

 

[Dante]

That's what the law says should happen. Sucks to be Ford. I own my own business and I can't even imagine the government coming and bailing out my competition right when I had them beat. Why even give a shit if the government is just going to bail you out in the end. What a crock of shit.

The law says that? I don't think so. And it was the government's job to save the economy when the nation and the world was in danger of economic collapse.

When did that become the job of the government? Where is the Constitution does it give the federal government permission to bail out a company?

Hello? Where in the Constitution does it say the government should not?

The health of the economy is a national interest worth doing whatever it takes. We are not meant to be simply at the whims of the so-called free market. You seem to have the cart before the horse.

 

[Dante]

The law says that?

Yes, you know bankruptcy laws.

you're misrepresenting again, or misunderstanding what you think you know.

 

[Dante]

That's what the law says should happen. Sucks to be Ford. I own my own business and I can't even imagine the government coming and bailing out my competition right when I had them beat. Why even give a shit if the government is just going to bail you out in the end. What a crock of shit.

You own a business. Obama bailed out an industry. If you do not acknowledge the differences you are being deceitful or willfully ignorant.

You mean we couldn't buy cars if GM went under? No Ford, no Toyota no Volkswagen?

It was said at the time that car suppliers were in danger of going out of business if GM and Chrysler went under. The ripple effect would have been world wide. Who knows what would have happened, but we were told by everyone, that it would be a distaster of epic proportions.

You are monday morning Quarterbacking, and badly

 

[gatortarian]

The law says that? I don't think so. And it was the government's job to save the economy when the nation and the world was in danger of economic collapse.

When did that become the job of the government? Where is the Constitution does it give the federal government permission to bail out a company?

Hello? Where in the Constitution does it say the government should not?

The health of the economy is a national interest worth doing whatever it takes. We are not meant to be simply at the whims of the so-called free market. You seem to have the cart before the horse.

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

 

[gatortarian]

You own a business. Obama bailed out an industry. If you do not acknowledge the differences you are being deceitful or willfully ignorant.

You mean we couldn't buy cars if GM went under? No Ford, no Toyota no Volkswagen?

It was said at the time that car suppliers were in danger of going out of business if GM and Chrysler went under. The ripple effect would have been world wide. Who knows what would have happened, but we were told by everyone, that it would be a distaster of epic proportions.

You are monday morning Quarterbacking, and badly

The same can be said of yourself.

 

[Dante]

When did that become the job of the government? Where is the Constitution does it give the federal government permission to bail out a company?

Hello? Where in the Constitution does it say the government should not?

The health of the economy is a national interest worth doing whatever it takes. We are not meant to be simply at the whims of the so-called free market. You seem to have the cart before the horse.

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

Such a simple post. And such an uninformed one. Court history and government practices over 200 years is all about interpretation. From the days of the creation of the first National Bank, people like you have been using bogus and discredited arguments to support fringe ideas.

 

[gatortarian]

Hello? Where in the Constitution does it say the government should not?

The health of the economy is a national interest worth doing whatever it takes. We are not meant to be simply at the whims of the so-called free market. You seem to have the cart before the horse.

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

Such a simple post. And such an uninformed one. Court history and government practices over 200 years is all about interpretation. From the days of the creation of the first National Bank, people like you have been using bogus and discredited arguments to support fringe ideas.

In other word like the rest of the progressives it means what you want it to mean.

 

[jillian]

Hello? Where in the Constitution does it say the government should not?

The health of the economy is a national interest worth doing whatever it takes. We are not meant to be simply at the whims of the so-called free market. You seem to have the cart before the horse.

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

Such a simple post. And such an uninformed one. Court history and government practices over 200 years is all about interpretation. From the days of the creation of the first National Bank, people like you have been using bogus and discredited arguments to support fringe ideas.

part of the problem is that equally bogus and uninformed and misinformed people have told them they don't need to know anything about how the constitution is construed.

 

[Dante]

You mean we couldn't buy cars if GM went under? No Ford, no Toyota no Volkswagen?

It was said at the time that car suppliers were in danger of going out of business if GM and Chrysler went under. The ripple effect would have been world wide. Who knows what would have happened, but we were told by everyone, that it would be a distaster of epic proportions.

You are monday morning Quarterbacking, and badly

The same can be said of yourself.

No. I am merely repeating what were the common arguments and discussions of what to do to rescue the economy at the time. I am not suggesting any polices were wonderful or bad. I do point out the result, that the auto industry survived and this fact has helped the economies of the USA and the world.

 

[Dante]

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

Such a simple post. And such an uninformed one. Court history and government practices over 200 years is all about interpretation. From the days of the creation of the first National Bank, people like you have been using bogus and discredited arguments to support fringe ideas.

In other word like the rest of the progressives it means what you want it to mean.

I am not a progressive. Never have been except for maybe a brief time as a child.

 

[Dante]

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

Such a simple post. And such an uninformed one. Court history and government practices over 200 years is all about interpretation. From the days of the creation of the first National Bank, people like you have been using bogus and discredited arguments to support fringe ideas.

part of the problem is that equally bogus and uninformed and misinformed people have told them they don't need to know anything about how the constitution is construed.

One of the problems is that people who know right well what the Constitution is all about, have fed bogus info as a tactic to re-fight old lost battles.

 

[Trajan]

Pulled the party to the left? You consider the middle, left?

I don't know what is sadder. Your ignorance or your stupidity?

1964 an incumbent President.

The Democrats rejected the most progressive candidates in 1968. Although Humphrey was a progressive DFLer, he was strongly aligned with liberalism. During World War II, Humphrey tried twice to join the armed forces.

1972 The Democrats elected George McGovern - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia over McCarthy and Muskie

1976 Carter over others.

1980 Carter over the Lion of Liberalism, Edward Kennedy. Carter was the incumbent President.

1984 Mondale over the others.

1988 Dukakis over others

1992 Clinton

1996 Clinton

2000 Gore

2004 Kerry

2008 Obama

------------------

none of the candidates listed were from the left wing of the DNC. None.

and btw, there is no left wing media or left wing major party. Left wing ideas get slapped down very quickly.

forest trees..hello...why for instance did clinton win a second term? Who provided a base of sppt. for your a fore mentioned candidates? And does to this day?

Why do you think Dukakis was successfully painted as a card carrier? I know what the answer is but I want to hear you say it again- ahhhh, here; because we were dummmmmmbbb and we 'bought it'....


So, do I need to remind you how primaries work? I guess so, they win by wooing the far left at primary time, they tack centrist afterward, please huh. ( and the super delegates won't allow a far lefty in or that is one that wears it on their sleeve because they know it won't float, but that doesn't stop their pick from trying to tug the country to the left, ala term one Clinton for instance).

Your problem is there are still more cons even among moderate ranks amongst the electorate than lefties and they don't buy it and see through the old switcheroo.(and no, thats not 100% see; Obama, that was different).



I see you revert to insults when you're feeling cornered, not very nice. I am civil to you, I would appreciate same.

the Democrats have to appeal to the left to get them on board. but what have they ever given the left in 50 years?

you must have ignored the thrust of my original post. Due to Johnson and Nixon trust in government took a body blow, but a mighty contribution too was the plethora of social engineering and government prgms that failed to yield their stated goals etc. etc.

The social revision of society starting in the 60's, the hugging of special interests and a new academic/intellectual nihilism driving out scoop jackson dems etc. the effect has reached fruition within the last 20 months.....

Of the 3 -4 mammoth all encompassing bills passed in the last 70 years from the new deal on up,they all had had healthy bi-partisan margins in support, BUT, that last one. Health care of such size scope an invasivness, that it was passed with not one cross aisle vote, says it all.

So, the left has not gotten anything? see above, see the stimulus, see the omni-bus budget bill.

So in other words you are one of the folks Gibbs and Alexrod were going off on, if you don't get everything, ( dadt, public option, ban on guns etc.) you've gotten nothing and thats part of the issue over the last 50 years to in no small part- the Democratic sppt. for the constant never ending search for a cause and the consequent never ending agitation.

 

[gatortarian]

One of the problems is that people who know right well what the Constitution is all about, have fed bogus info as a tactic to re-fight old lost battles.

Have read any of the founders? They all warned us that the Republic would be difficult to keep, some even advocating violent revolution if necessary. Just because we have screwed it up that doesn't mean we should just keep going.

 

[Dante]

you must have ignored the thrust of my original post. Due to Johnson and Nixon trust in government took a body blow, but a mighty contribution too was the plethora of social engineering and government prgms that failed to yield their stated goals etc. etc.

The social revision of society starting in the 60's, the hugging of special interests and a new academic/intellectual nihilism driving out scoop jackson dems etc. the effect has reached fruition within the last 20 months.....

Of the 3 -4 mammoth all encompassing bills passed in the last 70 years from the new deal on up,they all had had healthy bi-partisan margins in support, BUT, that last one. Health care of such size scope an invasivness, that it was passed with not one cross aisle vote, says it all.

So, the left has not gotten anything? see above, see the stimulus, see the omni-bus budget bill.

So in other words you are one of the folks Gibbs and Alexrod were going off on, if you don't get everything, ( dadt, public option, ban on guns etc.) you've gotten nothing and thats part of the issue over the last 50 years to in no small part- the Democratic sppt. for the constant never ending search for a cause and the consequent never ending agitation.

"passed with not one cross aisle vote" as a political tactic meant to support a power grab vs what many of those same Republicans had argued for before.

Gibbs and Axelrod were addressing people who voted for Obama. I was not one of the. Sorry, to disappoint you.

Conservative economists were saying the stimulus wouldn't work because it wasn't big enough. So the stimulus was NOT a left vs right issue. How to do the stimulus was.

 

[Dante]

One of the problems is that people who know right well what the Constitution is all about, have fed bogus info as a tactic to re-fight old lost battles.

Have read any of the founders? They all warned us that the Republic would be difficult to keep, some even advocating violent revolution if necessary. Just because we have screwed it up that doesn't mean we should just keep going.

"A republic if you can keep it." I am always amused at how people misrepresent that one. We became a republic because the framers, not the founders, compromised. The United States Constitution was brought about in secret and in compromise.

I have been reading libertarian and conservative views on the Constitution of late.

Those advocating violent revolution have missed the boat. The Confederacy tried that. The Confederacy was an insurrection with traitors. They declared war on the United States.

Do you know 'the people' as sovereign is used to describe the people as a nation and not as individuals or states? Yep, people often misrepresent what they think they know.

 

[Dante]

http://www.usmessageboard.com/reviews/133989-leo-strauss-and-chicago.html

I'm reading a few books. One is of great importance to me for understanding some of the arguments made by scholars and others on the political and educational scene:

Confronting The Constitution
The Challenge To Locke, Montesquieu, Jefferson, and the Federalists From Utilitarianism, Historicism, Marxism, Freudianism, Pragmatism, Existentialism...

funny thing, it was published by the AEI.