Here's my take on how Germany could have won WW2

[K9Buck]

I've been listening to the book:
Ivan's War: The Red Army at War 1939-45


I've long been a skeptic of the theory that Germany could have "won". But I now believe differently.

As you know, the Soviets were dreadfully unprepared for war. Millions of Soviets surrendered to the Germans in 1941. Had the Germans had a different strategy, they could have persuaded those millions of Soviets, along with all of Ukraine, the residents of the Baltic States, the Fins, and more to join them to fight Stalin.

Initially, Soviet troops were eager to surrender rather than face certain death fighting the Germans. According to the book, as the war went on, Soviet soldiers learned of the horrific atrocities that the German SS was committing. As well, they learned of the horrific fate of their comrades in German captivity. Soldiers went from being willing to surrender to fighting until death.

There are three things Hitler would have needed to avoid. One, he would have needed to be content in owning all of Poland and abandoning his plan of "Lebensraum" in Ukraine and the Baltic states as well as Russia. Two, Hitler would have needed to abandon the "Final Solution". Hitler could have deported all of the Jews to France, etc., but putting them into death camps could have definitely been a deal killer. Three, no declaration of war on the U.S. Obviously, I'm taking liberties but whenever discussing alternate history. one is going to take such liberties.

It's probably LIKELY that many Soviet officers, still reeling from the executions of their former comrades (Stalin's purges), would have gladly joined the efforts to remove Stalin. Hell, someone close to Stalin may have simply shot him and that would have been the end of the war and the end of the Soviet Union.

Thoughts?

 

[cnm]

If Germany had put the resources it dedicated to surface battleships to their U boat fleet it could well have won the battle of the Atlantic and thereby the war.

 

[K9Buck]

If Germany had put the resources it dedicated to surface battleships to their U boat fleet it could well have won the battle of the Atlantic and thereby the war.

But that wouldn't have stopped the Soviets.

 

[fncceo]

If Germany had put the resources it dedicated to surface battleships to their U boat fleet it could well have won the battle of the Atlantic and thereby the war.

In fact, Germany started the war with a decisive edge of both the US and Britain in surface vessels. The Bismark, along with her sister-ship, the Tirpitz, were the largest, most modern battleship in the Atlantic. The Graf Spree and other "pocket battleships", as well as the fastest cruisers afloat, referred to as "merchant raiders", were initially sinking more allied tonnage than U-Boats.

Unfortunately for The Nazis, even the faster, more powerful ships of the German Navy were no match for the newest weapon, air power.

 

[Magnus]

I've been listening to the book:
Ivan's War: The Red Army at War 1939-45


I've long been a skeptic of the theory that Germany could have "won". But I now believe differently.

As you know, the Soviets were dreadfully unprepared for war. Millions of Soviets surrendered to the Germans in 1941. Had the Germans had a different strategy, they could have persuaded those millions of Soviets, along with all of Ukraine, the residents of the Baltic States, the Fins, and more to join them to fight Stalin.

Initially, Soviet troops were eager to surrender rather than face certain death fighting the Germans. According to the book, as the war went on, Soviet soldiers learned of the horrific atrocities that the German SS was committing. As well, they learned of the horrific fate of their comrades in German captivity. Soldiers went from being willing to surrender to fighting until death.

There are three things Hitler would have needed to avoid. One, he would have needed to be content in owning all of Poland and abandoning his plan of "Lebensraum" in Ukraine and the Baltic states as well as Russia. Two, Hitler would have needed to abandon the "Final Solution". Hitler could have deported all of the Jews to France, etc., but putting them into death camps could have definitely been a deal killer. Three, no declaration of war on the U.S. Obviously, I'm taking liberties but whenever discussing alternate history. one is going to take such liberties.

It's probably LIKELY that many Soviet officers, still reeling from the executions of their former comrades (Stalin's purges), would have gladly joined the efforts to remove Stalin. Hell, someone close to Stalin may have simply shot him and that would have been the end of the war and the end of the Soviet Union.

Thoughts?

if only.... if only, Hitler had not fought a two-front war, if only, Japan had not brought in America into the war, if only, Germany had waited another year to build up their forces, if only, they had invested more in U-boats and their Air Force...

 

[cnm]

But that wouldn't have stopped the Soviets.

It would have stopped the supply of the Soviets which was a large part of their success.

 

[cnm]

If Germany had put the resources it dedicated to surface battleships to their U boat fleet it could well have won the battle of the Atlantic and thereby the war.

In fact, Germany started the war with a decisive edge of both the US and Britain in surface vessels. The Bismark, along with her sister-ship, the Tirpitz, were the largest, most modern battleship in the Atlantic. The Graf Spree and other "pocket battleships", as well as the fastest cruisers afloat, referred to as "merchant raiders", were initially sinking more allied tonnage than U-Boats.

Unfortunately for The Nazis, even the faster, more powerful ships of the German Navy were no match for the newest weapon, air power.

And?

 

[K9Buck]

It would have stopped the supply of the Soviets which was a large part of their success.

The German advance had already stalled before significant American aid reached the Soviets. The reality is that the Germans bit off more than they could chew and lacked the forces to crush the Soviets. Once the Soviets recovered, the fate of Germany was sealed. Even if the allies hadn't invaded western Europe, the Soviets would still have defeated the Germans.

 

[BasicHumanUnit]

Hitler himself was both the cause for the rise of Nazi Germany, and it's fall

 

[cnm]

The German advance had already stalled before significant American aid reached the Soviets.

History does not regard the Murmansk convoys in the same light. Are you sure you have your ducks in a row about the timelines?

Russian Convoys 1941-1945

 

[K9Buck]

History does not regard the Murmansk convoys in the same light. Are you sure you have your ducks in a row about the timelines?
Russian Convoys 1941-1945

The U.S. approved "lend-lease" aid to the Soviets on October 30, 1941. Unless the U.S. was already providing significant aid, it seems extremely unlikely that American aid was the deciding factor in stalling the German advance in late, 1941.

 

[JoeB131]

In fact, Germany started the war with a decisive edge of both the US and Britain in surface vessels. The Bismark, along with her sister-ship, the Tirpitz, were the largest, most modern battleship in the Atlantic. The Graf Spree and other "pocket battleships", as well as the fastest cruisers afloat, referred to as "merchant raiders", were initially sinking more allied tonnage than U-Boats.

Unfortunately for The Nazis, even the faster, more powerful ships of the German Navy were no match for the newest weapon, air power.

Not really. The Bismarck class had weaker guns than most US battleship classes, and most British battleship classes. More importantly they only had two of them. The British had 20, and so did the US.

Germany's mistake was not taking out the UK when it had a chance. Then they could have concentrated their full attention on the USSR. The other mistake was throwing in with the Japanese.

 

[Turtlesoup]

I've been listening to the book:
Ivan's War: The Red Army at War 1939-45


I've long been a skeptic of the theory that Germany could have "won". But I now believe differently.

As you know, the Soviets were dreadfully unprepared for war. Millions of Soviets surrendered to the Germans in 1941. Had the Germans had a different strategy, they could have persuaded those millions of Soviets, along with all of Ukraine, the residents of the Baltic States, the Fins, and more to join them to fight Stalin.

Initially, Soviet troops were eager to surrender rather than face certain death fighting the Germans. According to the book, as the war went on, Soviet soldiers learned of the horrific atrocities that the German SS was committing. As well, they learned of the horrific fate of their comrades in German captivity. Soldiers went from being willing to surrender to fighting until death.

There are three things Hitler would have needed to avoid. One, he would have needed to be content in owning all of Poland and abandoning his plan of "Lebensraum" in Ukraine and the Baltic states as well as Russia. Two, Hitler would have needed to abandon the "Final Solution". Hitler could have deported all of the Jews to France, etc., but putting them into death camps could have definitely been a deal killer. Three, no declaration of war on the U.S. Obviously, I'm taking liberties but whenever discussing alternate history. one is going to take such liberties.

It's probably LIKELY that many Soviet officers, still reeling from the executions of their former comrades (Stalin's purges), would have gladly joined the efforts to remove Stalin. Hell, someone close to Stalin may have simply shot him and that would have been the end of the war and the end of the Soviet Union.

Thoughts?

Germany made 3 major mistakes------
1) It waited to attack the BRIT after defeating France to allow for celebration which gave the Brits time to prepare for the upcoming attack
2) Its allies (japan) attacked pearl harbor bringing the US into the war.
3) But worse of all-----------------Germany attacked Russia creating a new unnecessary front. The christian socialist germans hated the jewish communist russians for losing ww1 and the murder of the Czarina (who was German)..........the russian front was what cost them the war.

 

[Votto]

I've been listening to the book:
Ivan's War: The Red Army at War 1939-45


I've long been a skeptic of the theory that Germany could have "won". But I now believe differently.

As you know, the Soviets were dreadfully unprepared for war. Millions of Soviets surrendered to the Germans in 1941. Had the Germans had a different strategy, they could have persuaded those millions of Soviets, along with all of Ukraine, the residents of the Baltic States, the Fins, and more to join them to fight Stalin.

Initially, Soviet troops were eager to surrender rather than face certain death fighting the Germans. According to the book, as the war went on, Soviet soldiers learned of the horrific atrocities that the German SS was committing. As well, they learned of the horrific fate of their comrades in German captivity. Soldiers went from being willing to surrender to fighting until death.

There are three things Hitler would have needed to avoid. One, he would have needed to be content in owning all of Poland and abandoning his plan of "Lebensraum" in Ukraine and the Baltic states as well as Russia. Two, Hitler would have needed to abandon the "Final Solution". Hitler could have deported all of the Jews to France, etc., but putting them into death camps could have definitely been a deal killer. Three, no declaration of war on the U.S. Obviously, I'm taking liberties but whenever discussing alternate history. one is going to take such liberties.

It's probably LIKELY that many Soviet officers, still reeling from the executions of their former comrades (Stalin's purges), would have gladly joined the efforts to remove Stalin. Hell, someone close to Stalin may have simply shot him and that would have been the end of the war and the end of the Soviet Union.

Thoughts?

All Hitler had to do was focus on taking out England. And to do that, all he needed to do was focus on taking out their air force.

But England made a bombing raid on Berlin. It did next to no damage, but it enraged Hitler so that they started bombing London rather than focusing on taking out their air force.

It saved England and the Allies cause.

As for the USSR, you are correct. All Hitler had to do was liberate the oppressed people rather than conquer and murder them. But Hitler was all focused on their race as Slavic and inferior, just like Democrats are today viewing the white race as evil and all others good.

 

[rightwinger]

When Germany invaded Poland and France they had an alliance with the USSR
If Hitler had honored the alliance, there is no way we would have dislodged them from Western Europe.

 

[Votto]

When Germany invaded Poland and France they had an alliance with the USSR
If Hitler had honored the alliance, there is no way we would have dislodged them from Western Europe.

Thanks for the revised history lesson, you left out critical race theory as part of your reply

Why?

Stalin, in fact, took part in conquering Poland, yet the Allies only declared war on Germany.

But as has been said, the people of the USSR hated Stalin and had Hitler come in as a liberator, they all would have turned on him.

 

[rightwinger]

When Germany invaded Poland and France they had an alliance with the USSR
If Hitler had honored the alliance, there is no way we would have dislodged them from Western Europe.

Thanks for the revised history lesson, you left out critical race theory as part of your reply

Why?

Stalin, in fact, took part in conquering Poland, yet the Allies only declared war on Germany.

But as has been said, the people of the USSR hated Stalin and had Hitler come in as a liberator, they all would have turned on him.

Hitler bit off more than he could chew
The Russian front was too expansive to provide logistics and hold.
His decision to invade USSR saved Britain

He should have solidified his hold on Western Europe then worried about USSR later if ever

 

[ReinyDays]

At every opportunity, Hitler chose what was best for the Nazi Party rather than what was best for Germany ...

The Ukrainians were mad as hell at Stalin ... Germany would have profited mightily if those Ukrainian Army divisions were turned towards Moscow ... but Hitler couldn't allow an independent Slavic nation to exist, ruins the Nazi propaganda machine ...

Germany didn't have to declare war on the USA ... not part of the Japan/Germany treaty ... it's not like Japan attacked the Soviets, indeed they had a peace treaty in place until August 1945 ... unfortunately for Hitler, the United States wasn't run by Jews, it was run by Germans ... famous quote from someone in the Manhattan Project: "Our German scientists were more clever than Germany's German scientists" ...

 

[Votto]

When Germany invaded Poland and France they had an alliance with the USSR
If Hitler had honored the alliance, there is no way we would have dislodged them from Western Europe.

Thanks for the revised history lesson, you left out critical race theory as part of your reply

Why?

Stalin, in fact, took part in conquering Poland, yet the Allies only declared war on Germany.

But as has been said, the people of the USSR hated Stalin and had Hitler come in as a liberator, they all would have turned on him.

Hitler bit off more than he could chew
The Russian front was too expansive to provide logistics and hold.
His decision to invade USSR saved Britain

He should have solidified his hold on Western Europe then worried about USSR later if ever

Hitler was on borrowed time. He ran up debt and forbad the German government to come out with budgets so that it would not raise red flags among voters. However, his government knew the rule, which was world conquest quickly or economic destruction from a ruinous fiscal policy.

In essence, Hitler burned all their bridges. It was either follow him to world conquest or embrace economic ruin.

 

[Turtlesoup]

When Germany invaded Poland and France they had an alliance with the USSR
If Hitler had honored the alliance, there is no way we would have dislodged them from Western Europe.

it's true----------if hitler had ...........the german socialists or the russian communists would rule over all of us.