He should have run as a war protester

[Merlin1047]

Those pesky details about kerry's claims to Viet Nam "service" keep coming back to bite him on the ass. The following excerpt is from an article on the "Swift Boat Veterans for Truth" site. Click on the photo for more details than are posted on the home page.

http://swiftvets.com/

"Swift Boat Veterans for Truth has contacted surviving members of this group to find out how many actually support John Kerry, and discovered that of 19 Swift boat skippers pictured other than Kerry, 12 consider him unfit, 4 are neutral, two have died, and 1 is working with the Kerry campaign. Four other officers were not present for the photo session; all oppose Kerry.

Only 1 of John Kerry's 23 fellow Swift boat commanders from Coastal Division 11 supports his candidacy today."

 

[HGROKIT]

Read all you want, but the mouse over on the photo is the most dramatic evidence.

 

[TheOne]

How many of the guys who actually served with Kerry on a day to day basis call him unfit? I am talking about his crewmates that he lead in battle? Were all these other swiftboat captains on the boat with Kerry or on their own boats?

I think I'll take the word of the men he lead over the men who rarely saw him. Afterall, he is running for a leadership position...right?

Let's also not forget his glowing service record which is well documented and available.

 

[DKSuddeth]

glowing service record? :rotflmao:

 

[TheOne]

glowing service record? :rotflmao:

Absolutely, I have read it it is full of praise.

 

[DKSuddeth]

all the praise in the world doesn't outshine his performance of confessing to atrocities to the senate.

 

[Jimmyeatworld]

How many of the guys who actually served with Kerry on a day to day basis call him unfit? I am talking about his crewmates that he lead in battle? Were all these other swiftboat captains on the boat with Kerry or on their own boats?

I think I'll take the word of the men he lead over the men who rarely saw him. Afterall, he is running for a leadership position...right?

Let's also not forget his glowing service record which is well documented and available.

More than 200 veterans who say Kerry is unfit to be president signed a letter asking Kerry to authorize the Department of the Navy to release his military records, including health documents. The 200 include men who served with Kerry, men who served in the same group of swift boats, and the entire chain of command above Kerry, including his commanding officer. In other words, men who served with him every day of his four months in one way or the other.

As far as his "glowing service record", I'll just agree with :rotflmao:

 

[Jimmyeatworld]

...and, yes, I have a link.

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=38337

 

[Merlin1047]

How many of the guys who actually served with Kerry on a day to day basis call him unfit? I am talking about his crewmates that he lead in battle? Were all these other swiftboat captains on the boat with Kerry or on their own boats?

It's a reasonably safe bet that these guys saw kerry nearly every day of the 3 1/2 months the Sen. "Send Me (home)" kerry spent in-country.

I think I'll take the word of the men he lead over the men who rarely saw him. Afterall, he is running for a leadership position...right?

Any small crew forms attachments. I'm not sure, but I think that the number of crewmen on a Swift was approx. 6.

Let's also not forget his glowing service record which is well documented and available.

Well, given the fact that kerry wrote much of what is contained in his record, it is hardly surprising that it "glows". Probably stinks too. But I believe that he's still hiding his medical records.

Anyway, here's a little more of the same, since the first dose didn't impress you.

http://www.insightmag.com/news/2004...ers.Say.They.Really.Think.Of.Him-697015.shtml

Fair Comment
What Kerry's 'Band of Brothers' Say They Really Think of Him
Posted Aug. 2, 2004

The bizarre effort at the Democratic National Convention to present John Kerry as a hero of the Vietnam War has not been met with universal enthusiasm by those with whom he served. To the contrary. The deep and abiding opposition to Kerry among those who served at the same time and under the same conditions he did, and who knew him in service, long puzzled his biographers. But for years most of these Kerry detractors avoided directly confronting the claims of his left-wing friends that here was a Vietnam War hero worthy of leadership at the highest level. As it became clear that Kerry's candidacy for the highest office in the land would be almost entirely based upon his actions during the four months he served in Vietnam, critics who knew John Kerry during those months have been stepping forward to correct the record. Consider the following, as reported on swiftvets.com.

"During the Vietnam War I was Task Force Commander at An Thoi, and my tour of duty was 13 months, from the end of Tet to the beginning of the Vietnamization of the Navy units.

"Now when I went there right after Tet, I was restricted in my movements. I couldn't go much of anyplace because the Vietcong controlled most of the area. When I left, I could go anywhere I wanted, just about. Commerce was booming, the buses were running, trucks were going, the waterways were filled with sampans with goods going to market, but yet in Kerry's biography he says that our operations were a complete failure. He also mentions a formal conference with me, to try to get more air cover and so on. That conference never happened ..."

-- Capt. Adrian Lonsdale, USCG (Ret.)


"While in Cam Rahn Bay, he trained on several 24-hour indoctrination missions, and one special skimmer operation with my most senior and trusted Lieutenant. The briefing from some members of that crew the morning after revealed that they had not received any enemy fire, and yet Lt.(jg) Kerry informed me of a wound -- he showed me a scratch on his arm and a piece of shrapnel in his hand that appeared to be from one of our own M-79s. It was later reported to me that Lt.(jg) Kerry had fired an M-79, and it had exploded off the adjacent shoreline. I do not recall being advised of any medical treatment, and probably said something like 'Forget it.' He later received a Purple Heart for that scratch, and I have no information as to how or whom.

"Lt.(jg) Kerry was allowed to return to the good old USA after 4 months and a few days in-country, and then he proceeded to betray his former shipmates, calling them criminals who were committing atrocities. Today we are here to tell you that just the opposite is true. Our rules of engagement were quite strict, and the officers and men of Swift often did not even return fire when they were under fire if there was a possibility that innocent people -- fishermen, in a lot of cases -- might be hurt or injured. The rules and the good intentions of the men increased the possibility that we might take friendly casualties."

-- Commander Grant Hibbard, USN (retired)


"I served with these guys. I went on missions with them, and these men served honorably. Up and down the chain of command there was no acquiescence to atrocities. It was not condoned, it did not happen, and it was not reported to me verbally or in writing by any of these men, including Lt.(jg) Kerry.

"In 1971, '72, for almost 18 months, he stood before the television audiences and claimed that the 500,000 men and women in Vietnam, and in combat, were all villains -- there were no heroes. In 2004, one hero from the Vietnam War has appeared, running for President of the United States and Commander-in-Chief. It just galls one to think about it."

-- Captain George Elliott, USN (Ret.)

(and here is one particularly damning observation)


"My name is Steve Gardner. I served in 1966 and 1967 on my first tour of duty in Vietnam on Swift boats, and I did my second tour in '68 and '69, involved with John Kerry in the last 2 1/2 months of my tour. The John Kerry that I know is not the John Kerry that everybody else is portraying. I served alongside him and behind him, five feet away from him in a gun tub, and watched as he made indecisive moves with our boat, put our boats in jeopardy, put our crews in jeopardy ... if a man like that can't handle that 6-man crew boat, how can you expect him to be our Commander-in-Chief?"

-- Steven Gardner


"I do not believe John Kerry is fit to be Commander-in-Chief of the armed forces of the United States. This is not a political issue. It is a matter of his judgment, truthfulness, reliability, loyalty and trust -- all absolute tenets of command. His biography, Tour of Duty, by Douglas Brinkley, is replete with gross exaggerations, distortions of fact, contradictions and slanderous lies. His contempt for the military and authority is evident by even a most casual review of this biography. He arrived in-country with a strong anti-Vietnam War bias and a self-serving determination to build a foundation for his political future. He was aggressive, but vain and prone to impulsive judgment, often with disregard for specific tactical assignments. He was a 'loose cannon.' In an abbreviated tour of four months and 12 days, and with his specious medals secure, Lt.(jg) Kerry bugged out and began his infamous betrayal of all United States forces in the Vietnam War. That included our soldiers, our marines, our sailors, our coast guardsmen, our airmen, and our POWs. His leadership within the so-called Vietnam Veterans Against the War and testimony before Congress in 1971 charging us with unspeakable atrocities remain an undocumented but nevertheless meticulous stain on the men and women who honorably stayed the course. Senator Kerry is not fit for command."

-- Rear Admiral Roy Hoffman, USN (Ret.), chairman, Swift Boat Veterans for Truth


"We resent very deeply the false war crimes charges he made coming back from Vietnam in 1971 and repeated in the book Tour of Duty. We think those cast an aspersion on all those living and dead, from our unit and other units in Vietnam. We think that he knew he was lying when he made the charges, and we think that they're unsupportable. We intend to bring the truth about that to the American people. We believe, based on our experience with him, that he is totally unfit to be the Commander-in-Chief."

-- John O'Neill, spokesman, Swift Boat Veterans for Truth


"During Lt.(jg) Kerry's tour, he was under my command for two or three specific operations, before his rapid exit. Trust, loyalty and judgment are the key, operative words. His turncoat performance in 1971 in his grubby shirt and his medal-tossing escapade, coupled with his slanderous lines in the recent book portraying us that served, including all POWs and MIAs, as murderous war criminals, I believe, will have a lasting effect on all military veterans and their families.

"Kerry would be described as devious, self-absorbing, manipulative, disdain for authority, disruptive, but the most common phrase that you'd hear is 'requires constant supervision.'"

-- Captain Charles Plumly, USN (Ret.)


"Thirty-five years ago, many of us fell silent when we came back to the stain of sewage that Mr. Kerry had thrown on us, and all of our colleagues who served over there. I don't intend to be silent today or ever again. Our young men and women who are serving deserve no less."

-- Andrew Horne


"In my specific, personal experience in both coastal and river patrols over a 12-month period, I never once saw or heard anything remotely resembling the atrocities described by Senator Kerry. If I had, it would have been my obligation to report them in writing to a higher authority, and I would certainly have done that. If Senator Kerry actually witnessed or participated in these atrocities or, as he described them, 'war crimes,' he was obligated to report them. That he did not until later when it suited his political purposes strikes me as opportunism of the worst kind. That he would malign my service and that of his fellow sailors with no regard for the truth makes him totally unqualified to serve as Commander-in-Chief."

-- Jeffrey Wainscott


"I signed that letter because I, too, felt a deep sense of betrayal that someone who took the same oath of loyalty as I did as an officer in the United States Navy would abandon his group here [points to group photo] to join this group here [points to Vietnam Veterans Against the War protest photo], and come home and attempt to rally the American public against the effort that this group was so valiantly pursuing.

"It is a fact that in the entire Vietnam War we did not lose one major battle. We lost the war at home ... and at home, John Kerry was the Field General."

-- Robert Elder


"My daughters and my wife have read portions of the book Tour of Duty. They wanted to know if I took part in the atrocities described. I do not believe the things that are described happened.

"Let me give you an example. In Brinkley's book, on pages 170 to 171, about something called the 'Bo De massacre' on November 24th of 1968. ... In Kerry's description of the engagement, first he claimed there were 17 servicemen that were wounded. Three of us were wounded. I was the first ..."

-- Joseph Ponder


"Lt. Kerry returned home from the war to make some outrageous statements and allegations ... numerous criminal acts in violation of the law of war were cited by Kerry, disparaging those who had fought with honor in that conflict. Had war crimes been committed by U.S .forces in Vietnam? Yes, but such acts were few and far between. Yet Lt. Kerry [has given] numerous speeches and testimony before Congress inappropriately leading his audiences to believe that what was only an anomaly in the conduct of America's fighting men was an epidemic. Furthermore, he suggested that they were being encouraged to violate the law of war by those within the chain of command.

"Very specific orders, on file at the Vietnam archives at Texas Tech University, were issued by my father [Admiral Elmo Zumwalt] and others in his chain of command instructing subordinates to act responsibly in preserving the life and property of Vietnamese civilians."

-- Lt. Col. James Zumwalt, USMC (Ret.)


"We look at Vietnam ... after all these years it is still languishing in isolated poverty and helplessness and tyranny. This is John Kerry's legacy. I deeply resent John Kerry's using his Swift boat experience, and his betrayal of those who fought there as a stepping-stone to his political ambitions."

-- Barnard Wolff


"In a whole year that I spent patrolling, I didn't see anything like a war crime, an atrocity, anything like that. Time and again I saw American fighting men put themselves in graver danger trying to avoid ... collateral damage.

"When John Kerry returned to the country, he was sworn in front of Congress. And then he told my family -- my parents, my sister, my brother, my neighbors -- he told everyone I knew and everyone I'd ever know that I and my comrades had committed unspeakable atrocities."

-- David Wallace


"I was in An Thoi from June of '68 to June of '69, covering the whole period that John Kerry was there. I operated in every river, in every canal, and every off-shore patrol area in the 4th Corps area, from Cambodia all the way around to the Bo De River. I never saw, even heard of all of these so-called atrocities and things that we were supposed to have done.

"This is not true. We're not standing for it. We want to set the record straight."

-- William Shumadine


"In 1971, when John Kerry spoke out to America, labeling all Vietnam veterans as thugs and murderers, I was shocked and almost brought to my knees, because even though I had served at the same time and same unit, I had never witnessed or participated in any of the events that the Senator had accused us of. I strongly believe that the statements made by the Senator were not only false and inaccurate, but extremely harmful to the United States' efforts in Southeast Asia and the rest of the world. Tragically, some veterans, scorned by the antiwar movement and their allies, retreated to a life of despair and suicide. Two of my crewmates were among them. For that there is no forgiveness. "

-- Richard O'Meara


"I served in Vietnam as a boat officer from June of 1968 to July of 1969. My service was three months in Coastal Division 13 out of Cat Lo, and nine months with Coastal Division 11 based in An Thoi. John Kerry was in An Thoi the same time I was. I'm here today to express the anger I have harbored for over 33 years, about being accused with my fellow shipmates of war atrocities.

"All I can say is when I leave here today, I'm going down to the Wall to tell my two crew members it's not true, and that they and the other 49 Swiftees who are on the Wall were then and are still now the best."

-- Robert Brant


"I never saw, heard of, or participated in any Swift boat crews killing cattle, poisoning crops, or raping and killing civilians as charged by John Kerry, both in his book and in public statements. Since we both operated at the same time, in the same general area, and on the same missions under the same commanders, it is hard to believe his claims of atrocities and poor planning of Sea Lord missions.

"I signed this letter because I feel that he used Swift boat sailors to proclaim his antiwar statements after the war, and now he uses the same Swift boat sailors to support his claims of being a war hero. He cannot have it both ways, and we are here to ask for full disclosure of the proof of his claims."

-- James Steffes

 

[JIHADTHIS]

Absolutely, I have read it it is full of praise.

I could write a glowing post about YOU pointing out your ability to back up your posts with facts, direct quotes from named sources, and your open mind. I could also point out how you answer every challenge put forth to you. You may even consider it as praise. But it wouldn't make it fact..............

 

[TheOne]

More than 200 veterans who say Kerry is unfit to be president signed a letter asking Kerry to authorize the Department of the Navy to release his military records, including health documents. The 200 include men who served with Kerry, men who served in the same group of swift boats, and the entire chain of command above Kerry, including his commanding officer. In other words, men who served with him every day of his four months in one way or the other.

As far as his "glowing service record", I'll just agree with :rotflmao:

He has released all his service records. He has actually released most of his medical records too and all of the ones that are pertinent to his service related injuries. In other words, these are NOT the men who served with him every day. He was the commander of his own swiftboat. The men who served with him everyday were lined up behind him at the convention. Did you see them?

I am stunned that a Bush supporter would even bring up Kerry's service record when they have a pussy who ducked overseas service and can't prove he served all his time in Alabama. Remember, Bush pussied out while other men were fighting and dying in the jungles of Vietnam. You want to talk about service records, go right ahead. Americans have already made up their mind as over 70% of Americans polled say Kerry served honorably. The more you disparage Kerry's service, the more people realize what a bum Bush was during that conflict.

 

[Merlin1047]

He has released all his service records. He has actually released most of his medical records too and all of the ones that are pertinent to his service related injuries. In other words, these are NOT the men who served with him every day. He was the commander of his own swiftboat. The men who served with him everyday were lined up behind him at the convention. Did you see them?

I am stunned that a Bush supporter would even bring up Kerry's service record when they have a pussy who ducked overseas service and can't prove he served all his time in Alabama. Remember, Bush pussied out while other men were fighting and dying in the jungles of Vietnam. You want to talk about service records, go right ahead. Americans have already made up their mind as over 70% of Americans polled say Kerry served honorably. The more you disparage Kerry's service, the more people realize what a bum Bush was during that conflict.

Easy - you're starting to rave. Spittle shorts out your keyboard.

 

[TheOne]

I could write a glowing post about YOU pointing out your ability to back up your posts with facts, direct quotes from named sources, and your open mind. I could also point out how you answer every challenge put forth to you. You may even consider it as praise. But it wouldn't make it fact..............

Wow, they said glowing too!

Kerry's military records show `top notch officer'
Chicago Tribune

Jill Zuckman

Washington, DC -

Sen. John Kerry's military service records, released by his presidential campaign Wednesday, reflect a talented young naval officer who regularly impressed his superiors and received glowing reviews.


The campaign finished posting the service records Wednesday on the Internet after initially resisting requests for full disclosure of the files.

During his service in Vietnam directing a swift boat in the Mekong Delta, Kerry was awarded the Bronze Star, the Silver Star and three Purple Hearts for wounds to his arms, legs and buttocks.

The military records became an issue in the presidential campaign after Kerry said Sunday on NBC's "Meet the Press" that they were available to anyone who wanted to visit his campaign headquarters. But his aides refused to make the documents available and Republicans criticized Kerry for saying one thing and doing another.

"A top notch officer in every measurable trait," wrote Capt. Allen Slifer of Kerry's service on the USS Gridley on June 8, 1967. "Intelligent, mature and rich in educational background and experience, ENS Kerry is one of the finest young officers I have ever met and without question one of the most promising."

In another evaluation, Lt. Cmdr. George Elliott praised Kerry effusively on Dec. 18, 1969. "In a combat environment often requiring independent, decisive action, LTJG Kerry was unsurpassed," Elliott wrote. "LTJG Kerry emerges as the acknowledged leader in his peer group."

Elliott also noted that Kerry had taken it upon himself to learn to speak Vietnamese.

Throughout his campaign, Kerry has relied on many of the veterans he served with in Vietnam to accompany him before voters, confirming his bravery and service to the country.

Prior to the Iowa caucuses, Jim Rassmann, a retired sheriff's deputy from Oregon, dramatically told of the day that a wounded Kerry turned back their boat, fished Rassmann out of the water, and saved his life - all while under heavy fire.

Kerry earned the Bronze Star for his actions that day on the Bay Hap River.

He was awarded the Silver Star "for conspicuous gallantry and intrepedity in action" during an operation on the Ca Mau Peninsula.

It was there that several swift boats came under heavy small-arms fire from the river banks, according to the account written by Vice Adm. E.R. Zumwalt Jr.

Kerry ordered the units to turn to the beach and charge the Viet Cong positions. When an enemy soldier began to flee, Kerry leapt to shore and pursued him behind a hut, killing him. In the process, he captured a B-40 rocket launcher with a round in the chamber.

Kerry then led an assault party that swept the area and routed the enemy, the citation said. Altogether, 10 Viet Cong were killed and one was wounded, with no American casualties.

Republican officials, who have made Kerry's forthrightness an issue in the campaign, criticized him for telling "Meet the Press" host Tim Russert on Sunday that his military records were available at his campaign headquarters when they were not.

"How dumb does he think the voters are?" Republican National Committee Chairman Ed Gillespie said Wednesday on CNN. "You can't say something like that on television and not follow through."

Gillespie said Republicans have never taken issue with Kerry's military service, and Bush campaign spokesman Terry Holt declined to comment Wednesday.

President Bush served in the Texas Air National Guard during Vietnam, and did not see combat. He released his military records in February in an effort to rebut allegations by some Democrats that he was absent without leave for about a year.

Michael Meehan, a spokesman for Kerry, said the campaign had requested the senator's military records from the Navy and had posted everything it received.

"It's impossible for us to know if the Navy has in its possession more documents than they have sent to us," Meehan said.

article

 

[Merlin1047]

He has released all his service records. He has actually released most of his medical records too and all of the ones that are pertinent to his service related injuries. In other words, these are NOT the men who served with him every day. He was the commander of his own swiftboat. The men who served with him everyday were lined up behind him at the convention. Did you see them?

I am stunned that a Bush supporter would even bring up Kerry's service record when they have a pussy who ducked overseas service and can't prove he served all his time in Alabama. Remember, Bush pussied out while other men were fighting and dying in the jungles of Vietnam. You want to talk about service records, go right ahead. Americans have already made up their mind as over 70% of Americans polled say Kerry served honorably. The more you disparage Kerry's service, the more people realize what a bum Bush was during that conflict.

Sorry, I was going to let this pass, but I can't. You don't know your ass from a hole in the ground about Swift boat tactics, yet you make totally unqualified and, may I add, erroneous assertions regarding kerry's service.

"He was the commander of his own swiftboat."

Obviously you think he operated in a vacuum? Rather like the lone white knight out to conquer the dragon. Swift boats seldom operated alone. Kerry's boat was almost certainly one of two or more on any given mission. This would give other commanders a first-hand opportunity to observe kerry and to evaluate his conduct.

Also, kerry didn't get on the boat, and go off on a 3 1/2 month long mission. He was most likely back at the dock every night with extremely few exceptions. Again, his interaction with fellow officers gave others their insight on kerry.

"Bush pussied out while other men were fighting and dying in the jungles of Vietnam"

You see service in the National Guard as having "pussied out". Tell that to the numerous members of the Guard and Reserves who have served in EVERY major conflict this nation has ever had. If Bush had received orders to report for active duty, his choice would have been to comply or be charged with desertion. By the way - I find it rather offensive that someone like you, who has never shot so much as a paper clip at an enemy of this country, has the gall to make value judgements about the service of others. Your assessment is based on nothing but your left wing fantasies and your hatred for Pres. Bush. Like most ultra left wackos, you have no idea what you're talking about on this subject. I find it extremely humorous that the left wing, staunch despisers of everything military, now find themselves in the uncomfortable position of praising the highly questionable military service of the troll who they are touting for president.

 

[Merlin1047]

"During his service in Vietnam directing a swift boat in the Mekong Delta, Kerry was awarded the Bronze Star, the Silver Star and three Purple Hearts for wounds to his arms, legs and buttocks."

Somehow, I find it highly appropriate that he received a Purple Heart for a wound on his ass. Probably got a splinter while sliding off a bar stool at the officer's club.

 

[TheOne]

You see service in the National Guard as having "pussied out". Tell that to the numerous members of the Guard and Reserves who have served in EVERY major conflict this nation has ever had. If Bush had received orders to report for active duty, his choice would have been to comply or be charged with desertion. By the way - I find it rather offensive that someone like you, who has never shot so much as a paper clip at an enemy of this country, has the gall to make value judgements about the service of others. Your assessment is based on nothing but your left wing fantasies and your hatred for Pres. Bush. Like most ultra left wackos, you have no idea what you're talking about on this subject. I find it extremely humorous that the left wing, staunch despisers of everything military, now find themselves in the uncomfortable position of praising the highly questionable military service of the troll who they are touting for president.

No, you see, he did pussy out. He selected "NO OVERSEAS DUTY". That is another word for "I AM A PUSSY".

I served my country sir. I still am, in a different capacity. Kerry is a war hero and that is indisputable based on the testimony of the men he commanded and the public record. You are just gonna have to deal with that sarge.

Here's a link to the records. Read 'em over. I am sure you'll be disappointed.

article

 

[Merlin1047]

No, you see, he did pussy out. He selected "NO OVERSEAS DUTY". That is another word for "I AM A PUSSY".

(Stupid statement, not worth addressing.)

I served my country sir. I still am, in a different capacity. Kerry is a war hero and that is indisputable based on the testimony of the men he commanded and the public record. You are just gonna have to deal with that sarge.

(Nebulous assertion, vague and unsupported. Based on the tone of your posts, I rather doubt you're older than about 16.)

Here's a link to the records. Read 'em over. I am sure you'll be disappointed.

(I already read them. Unlike you, I don't shoot my mouth off without doing some basic reasearch first. And I'm not impressed.)

article

.

 

[TheOne]

I don't care what you believe. I served my country as a member of the armed services and I still am in a different capacity.

If you choose to not address the FACT that Bush specifically requested not to be sent overseas during his Guard duty while Vietnam was in play, that's your choice, doesn't change the FACT.

How can you not be impressed with those records? What exactly is so disgraceful to you in those FACTUAL records.

 

[tim_duncan2000]

"Bush pussied out while other men were fighting and dying in the jungles of Vietnam"

1) What about the fact that Clinton dodged the draft and was busy "not inhaling" during the war? I seem to remember liberals saying "So what? Why should that matter).

2) You can feel that way if you want, but at least Bush didn't write stuff about veterans committing atrocities in a book that had an image on the cover which mocked the marines at Iwo Jima, claim he committed them too, and then act proud of his service now.

I'm tired of seeing people giving Kerry a pass on his behavior after the war simply because he served in Vietnam. I will not just ignore what he said.

BTW, here is some information about what he did as chairman of the Senate Select Committee on P.O.W./ M.I.A. Affairs. (Thanks to the person who gave me this link)

Also go to this link. BTW, this guy is also no fan of Bush in case someone wants to say that it's just a right-wing hatchet job.

 

[Merlin1047]

I don't care what you believe. I served my country as a member of the armed services and I still am in a different capacity.

If you choose to not address the FACT that Bush specifically requested not to be sent overseas during his Guard duty while Vietnam was in play, that's your choice, doesn't change the FACT.

How can you not be impressed with those records? What exactly is so disgraceful to you in those FACTUAL records.

That corner you're painting yourself into is getting smaller all the time. I ignored this "fact" because it proves nothing. Most members of the Guard and Reserves have civilian careers and would prefer to avoid overseas postings if possible. That's a FACT. Here's another FACT - there were many "overseas" assignments that did NOT involve the RVN. Requesting to avoid "overseas" duty has nothing to do with courage, it is simply a desire to avoid having one's business or career ruined due to extended absence. Besides, this is only a preference. It would be honored only so long as it was convenient to do so. If GW's presence had been required "overseas", he would have received deployment orders no matter what his preference was.

But again, I'm sure you'll find some trite reason to blow off the FACTS I have just given you. Because FACTS only concern you when they are convenient. At other times FACTS become troublesome and unwelcome. The only thing at which you libs are more accomplished than twisting the FACTS is ignoring the FACTS. You posted no FACTS. A FACT is a COMPLETE statement of truth, not a doctored, edited, watered-down version that is to your liking.

Damn it's tough to deal with someone who is intentionally ignorant.