Hamas Urges Taking Hard Line Against Israel

[Gunny]

By ISABEL KERSHNER and TAGHREED EL-KHODARY
Published: November 27, 2007

JERUSALEM, Nov. 26 — The leaders of Hamas espoused a hard line against Israel at a conference that they and the militant Islamic Jihad faction convened in Gaza on Monday, the eve of the American-sponsored Middle East peace gathering in Annapolis, Md.

GAZA Two of Hamas’s top leaders, Ismail Haniya, center, and Mahmoud Zahar, right, at a Palestinian conference on Monday.
Also on Monday, Israeli right-wing activists stepped up their campaign against possible concessions to the Palestinians with demonstrations in Jerusalem.

In Gaza, Ismail Haniya, Hamas’s leader, said, “Let the whole world hear us: We will not relinquish a centimeter of Palestine, and we will not recognize Israel.” Mr. Haniya, who is usually associated with the more pragmatic wing of the Islamic movement, was responding to a refugee from the 1948 Arab-Israeli war who came up to the podium showing the deed for land he had left behind in what is now Israel.

Mahmoud Zahar, an influential Hamas leader in Gaza, told a packed hall in Gaza City that “Palestinian land is from the sea to the river” — referring to the Jordan River in the West Bank — “and from the Lebanon-Syrian border in the north to the Egyptian borders.” He added, “Not a single person, not a government, not a single generation has the right to relinquish any area of Palestine.”

Any normalization of relations “with the enemy is a treason,” he said.

more ... http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/27/w...3b70d139da05d2&ei=5088&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss

I say quit bullshitting around and let them fight it out. Doesn't matter what agreement they come to, one Arab faction or another will violate it and we'll be right back here just as before.

 

[Shogun]

Let THEM?


Remove the nukes from the equasion and refrain from coming to the rescue like a tag team wrestling partner...


say, what was the post-ww2 policy on returning property to jews that had been confiscated by the nazis? Land deed and everything.

 

[Gunny]

Let THEM?


Remove the nukes from the equasion and refrain from coming to the rescue like a tag team wrestling partner...


say, what was the post-ww2 policy on returning property to jews that had been confiscated by the nazis? Land deed and everything.

Israel has yet to use nukes, and we have yet to intervene militarily. If anything, we hold Israel back with this so-called peace process that's been going on since JimBob Carter.

Palestine was partitioned to create a Jewish homeland in 1924 by the Balfour Agreement by Great Britain, which by rights of the victor under the rules of the day, they could do if they wanted. It was just never carried out until 1949. Whatever rules to which you refer are irrelevant.

The US opposed the partitioning of Palestine, btw.

The fact is, no European nation nor the US wanted the Jews. Roosevelt kept the death camps a secret because he was afraid the American people might get the idea they were fighting for Jews. So they were offered a pretty-much useless piece of land that few people cared about until they had it.

So if you want to cast blame, look in the mirror. It was our prejudice against Jews as much as anything else that created the modern state of Israel. I'd have been all for letting them have California myself. Would've solved more than ONE issue.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Israel has yet to use nukes, and we have yet to intervene militarily. If anything, we hold Israel back with this so-called peace process that's been going on since JimBob Carter.

Palestine was partitioned to create a Jewish homeland in 1924 by the Balfour Agreement by Great Britain, which by rights of the victor under the rules of the day, they could do if they wanted. It was just never carried out until 1949. Whatever rules to which you refer are irrelevant.

The US opposed the partitioning of Palestine, btw.

The fact is, no European nation nor the US wanted the Jews. Roosevelt kept the death camps a secret because he was afraid the American people might get the idea they were fighting for Jews. So they were offered a pretty-much useless piece of land that few people cared about until they had it.

So if you want to cast blame, look in the mirror. It was our prejudice against Jews as much as anything else that created the modern state of Israel. I'd have been all for letting them have California myself. Would've solved more than ONE issue.

I just don't understand, I mean I sorta kinda see why some stupid Christians might hate Jews, but why would athiests hate them?

 

[Diuretic]

I feel for the Palestinians, I really do. What a choice. Bloody Fatah which is more corrupt than Al Capone and Hamas which is as nutty as you can get and still not get locked up.

I don't hate Jews and I'm an atheist. I'm a bit iffy with the current Israeli government but I've always been a bit of a fan of the Israeli Labour party - Avoda - even though it is a Zionist party. I reckon Shimon Peres is a top bloke and I think the loss of Yitzhak Rabin is a continuing political as well as personal tragedy.

 

[José]

Originally posted by Diuretic
I feel for the Palestinians, I really do. What a choice. Bloody Fatah which is more corrupt than Al Capone and Hamas which is as nutty as you can get and still not get locked up.

I don't hate Jews and I'm an atheist. I'm a bit iffy with the current Israeli government but I've always been a bit of a fan of the Israeli Labour party - Avoda - even though it is a Zionist party. I reckon Shimon Peres is a top bloke and I think the loss of Yitzhak Rabin is a continuing political as well as personal tragedy.

After seeing you criticise the russian autocracy being created under Putin and even minor flaws of the british democratic institutions like the House of Lords, your support for a country racist to the bone like Israel comes as a big letdown, Diuretic.

The whole country is a big SOCIALLY ACCEPTED South Africa under apartheid founded on the premise that a group of human beings by virtue of their ethnicity have more rights than the natives of the land.

Anyone who supports the existence of the state of Israel could just as well support the establishment of a white supremacist state in Australia with the bulk of the asian and native population being relocated somewhere in the Outback and kept there against their will.

I've come to expect this kind of support from the super patriotic american clowns of this Message Board but not from you.

But you're obviously entitled to your opinion.

 

[Ninja]

If he was your wife would you straighten him out?

http://usmessageboard.com/showpost.php?p=578509&postcount=1

 

[Shogun]

Israel has yet to use nukes, and we have yet to intervene militarily. If anything, we hold Israel back with this so-called peace process that's been going on since JimBob Carter.

Palestine was partitioned to create a Jewish homeland in 1924 by the Balfour Agreement by Great Britain, which by rights of the victor under the rules of the day, they could do if they wanted. It was just never carried out until 1949. Whatever rules to which you refer are irrelevant.

The US opposed the partitioning of Palestine, btw.

The fact is, no European nation nor the US wanted the Jews. Roosevelt kept the death camps a secret because he was afraid the American people might get the idea they were fighting for Jews. So they were offered a pretty-much useless piece of land that few people cared about until they had it.

So if you want to cast blame, look in the mirror. It was our prejudice against Jews as much as anything else that created the modern state of Israel. I'd have been all for letting them have California myself. Would've solved more than ONE issue.

then Ill ask the same question Iran keeps asking:

Why should a muslim nation pay the price of a european war and european racism?

Go read a week of the Jpost and remind me how not attacking so far means anything for the future. Would you let a muslim nation have that much leeway?

I assure you that the people who LIVED there didn't think it as merely a useless piece of land. What, is this the rationalization of International Imminent domain?

hell, you've seen me offer TEXAS as the next Israel. Indeed, just imagine how many issues would be put to rest if the zionist hardon were moved to a land where the indigenous population wasn't robbed of their territory. Careful, suggest that too many times and you'll get the standard antisemite-label reaction.

 

[Shogun]

I just don't understand, I mean I sorta kinda see why some stupid Christians might hate Jews, but why would athiests hate them?

I don't hate jews and am an atheist. I don't hate israel. what I hate is being used by a nation who knows the value of that OT common denominator when confronting muslim nations while totally shitting on a human population that gets to pay the price for a european world war. I hate knowingthat our "allies" don't give a fuck about the US so long as we are a nice dog guarding their interests in the mid east. I hate that our "friends" get caught spying on us with a frequency you could set a clock to. I hate that a portion of America enjoys the benefits of this nation while CLEARLY making Israel their greater priority. I hate the that they EXPECT a double standard that makes our effort in peace a giant fucking joke. Indeed, would the US give a fuck about China's nuclear standard if we knew that they were giving N.Korea nukes "for defense" off the table with no standard in their regulation besides "well, they haven't used them yet"?

This isn't about ethnic bigotry. But, if it makes my criticism easier to swallow I guess it wouldn't be the first time that label becomes the standard reaction.

 

[Diuretic]

After seeing you criticise the russian autocracy being created under Putin and even minor flaws of the british democratic institutions like the House of Lords, your support for a country racist to the bone like Israel comes as a big letdown, Diuretic.

The whole country is a big SOCIALLY ACCEPTED South Africa under apartheid founded on the premise that a group of human beings by virtue of their ethnicity have more rights than the natives of the land.

Anyone who supports the existence of the state of Israel could just as well support the establishment of a white supremacist state in Australia with the bulk of the asian and native population being relocated somewhere in the Outback and kept there against their will.

I've come to expect this kind of support from the super patriotic american clowns of this Message Board but not from you.

But you're obviously entitled to your opinion.

As I said, I'm a bit iffy with the current Israeli government. I know it's hypothetical but what if Rabin hadn't been murdered? Perhaps some progress would have been made in sorting out the issues facing Israel at home.

And it's time for a dose of reality here. Israel has existed since 1948, what is the world going to do? Erase it? There are many Israelis who are sick and tired of living in a constant state of war with the Palestinians and with the various Arab states surrounding Israel. The solution is obvious but painful. Obviously I don't know much about the specifics of the topic but it seems to me that any resolution to the current tensions must mean a Palestinian homeland and security for Israel. Both nations are entitled to these things.
I know, easy to say, damn hard to achieve. But a lack of obduracy on all sides might help.



And don't get me started on South Africa, the ANC is hopeless and Mbeki is a fool of the highest order.

 

[Gunny]

then Ill ask the same question Iran keeps asking:

Why should a muslim nation pay the price of a european war and european racism?

Go read a week of the Jpost and remind me how not attacking so far means anything for the future. Would you let a muslim nation have that much leeway?

I assure you that the people who LIVED there didn't think it as merely a useless piece of land. What, is this the rationalization of International Imminent domain?

hell, you've seen me offer TEXAS as the next Israel. Indeed, just imagine how many issues would be put to rest if the zionist hardon were moved to a land where the indigenous population wasn't robbed of their territory. Careful, suggest that too many times and you'll get the standard antisemite-label reaction.

WWI was not just a European war. It was a war of treaties that ballooned out of control. The Ottoman Empire, of which Transjordan was a part, chose the losing side.

When you allow your nation to be subjugated, you are party and parcel to the whims and losses of the nation that you allow to control your destiny.

You are aguing against the evolution of mankind. There are no indigenous folk who have not been pushed out by a stonger folk's migration. It isn't a matter of whether or not I am willing to allow a Muslim nation leeway ... it's a matter of whether or not that Muslim nation is powerful enough to push me off my land.

And of course, I am going to fight. That is not going to change the inevitability of the strong pushing out the weak, regardless which side I choose.

Anyone labelling me an anti-semite would be mislabelling me for whatever reason. My argument does not address the religion of either side. Judaism for some reason is accepted as a race as well as religion, and it is in the context of two different societies I have made my argument.

 

[José]

Originally posted by snowman
If he was your wife would you straighten him out?

http://usmessageboard.com/showpost.p...09&postcount=1

LOL LOL

I gotta tell you, people. If I could give 1000 positive points to snowman for this one, it would still be too little.

For those who didn’t bother to follow the link, snowman is referring to an infamous thread I created after a provocation from Kathianne.

Somewhat unconsciously, I portrayed myself as the stereotypical latino male. If I remember well, the thread was something like this:

“I have a message for all the female members of the US Message Board:

Kathianne, jillian, Stephanie, said1 etc, etc....

If any of you ladies were my wife, you would discover soon enough why we, latinos, have a deserved reputation for beating up our wives first and making up excuses later:

At least five spanking sessions a day until I hear you saying that racist states like Israel have no right to exist.

Each spanking session would be complete, with a vast amount of slaps, punches and kicks.

Each session would last about 5 minutes which is an eternity when you’re being bombarded by a storm of blows.

Etc, etc, etc...”

Onedomino neg repped me twice for this thread and added a comment that summarises the entire thread perfectly:

“SUPER SICK”

And quite frankly, he was being way too generous...

That was, BY FAR, the sickest thread in the combined history of the US/DP Message Board.

The moment I really felt bad about the whole thread was when jillian, instead of reacting angrily, just noted in a philosophical way:

“Interesting that a political difference would lead you to spank your wife”.

If I had waited 1 day, or even a couple of hours, I certainly wouldn’t have created that thread.

The only “good thing” that came out of the whole mess was that I immediately became Roomy’s unconditional hero.

As anyone who reads his posts can attest, the little “pikey” is completely obsessed with the idea of physical violence, fist-fighting, spankings, beatdowns, etc, etc...

So when he saw a SERIOUS member of the board promising to beat the crap out of the female members because of Israel, the guy almost had a mental orgasm (newbies to the board... believe it or not, but the author of that thread is indeed a serious member of the board) : )

If I’m not mistaken he created two or three threads just to celebrate his latin hero’s feat (“José is a wanker” and others I don’t remember).

Two months after the incident I got an email from his wife telling me that he had erected a statue of me in their backyard and worshiped me every morning by kneeling and bowing in front of the statue.

She even offered to pay me a trip to Britain so that Roomy could meet and worship his idol in real life : )

But yeah, despite all the joy and happiness I brought to Roomy’s life, that was a hell of a sick thread...

 

[José]

Sometime after that infamous thread I almost created another “personal” thread entitled:

“SKRAMER, I’M GONNA CHANGE YOUR MIND ON ISRAEL OR MY NAME IS NOT JOSÉ”

Despite its provocative title, this would be a totally serious thread, posted here, not in the less serious parts of the board, where I would try to make Matthew understand that his neutrality on the Israeli/Palestinian issue is not a “reasonable middle ground” between extremes but the direct outcome of his limited knowledge of the Israeli/Palestinian issue.

I’d try to convince him, IN A FRIENDLY WAY, that if he had on this issue the same level of knowledge I do he would immediatelly understand that being a “moderate” on the Israeli/Palestinian issue is the same as being a “moderate” on south african apartheid.

He would finally understand that the only thing that prevents him from saying no to legalised racism in Palestine is his own lack of knowledge.

There is another poster who seems to have the same level of knowledge on this issue and this also leads her to the same kind of “ignorant neutrality”, “ignorant middle ground”.

But she is way funnier than Skramer... Her favorite line is something like this:

Palestine a terrorist nation.

Israel a terrorist nation.

Her limited knowledge leads her to repeat this same “neutral” comment over and over and over...

And after the umpteenth time, the end result is absolutely hillarious... LOL LOL

I am in no way referring to their limited knowledge as something disparaging.

Hell, there are hundreds of subjects I know nothing about and I don’t want to be crucified for this!!!

Actually, Skramer’s self proclaimed lack of knowledge on the Palestinian issue is an advantage.

People who belong to what I jokingly call the “what the hell is a palestinian refugee” crowd, I mean, people who are completely clueless on this issue but who are compassionate, like Skramer definitely is, are much more likely to be able to see the ugly face of the jewish racial dictatorship than people with a greater level of knowledge but with no moral bearings.

 

[José]

Originally posted by snowman
If he was your wife would you straighten him out?

Golly, snowman...

I don’t think Diuretic has the required orifice to be my wife...

 

[José]

Originally posted by Diuretic
As I said, I'm a bit iffy with the current Israeli government. I know it's hypothetical but what if Rabin hadn't been murdered? Perhaps some progress would have been made in sorting out the issues facing Israel at home.

Diuretic...

Snowman, with his trip down memory lane, destroyed any possibility for a serious conversation between us. And he did it in the funniest way possible... : )

I laughed so hard at the idea of you being my wife and getting spanked because of Israel I must have bursted at least three hernias.

I no longer have any psychological condition to conduct a debate on this issue with the seriousness a poster of your caliber deserves.

Maybe next time, buddy.

 

[José]

Diuretic and Matthew Skramer

I promised Gunny a mega thread on the palestinian issue a long time ago based on excerpts from the debate I had with a very knowledgeble argentinian jew named Jorge who lives in Israel and have israeli citizenship.

Haven’t been able to fulfill my promise yet cuz I have a life outside the net, and such an all-encompassing thread will demand an amount time I still don’t have.

But don’t leave the board, you two... stick around cuz “The Clash of the Titans” will eventually be written and posted here and it’ll be well worth reading.

 

[Diuretic]

..............

The only “good thing” that came out of the whole mess was that I immediately became Roomy’s unconditional hero.

As anyone who reads his posts can attest, the little “pikey” is completely obsessed with the idea of physical violence, fist-fighting, spankings, beatdowns, etc, etc...

So when he saw a SERIOUS member of the board promising to beat the crap out of the female members because of Israel, the guy almost had a mental orgasm (newbies to the board... believe it or not, but the author of that thread is indeed a serious member of the board) : )

If I’m not mistaken he created two or three threads just to celebrate his latin hero’s feat (“José is a wanker” and others I don’t remember).

Two months after the incident I got an email from his wife telling me that he had erected a statue of me in their backyard and worshiped me every morning by kneeling and bowing in front of the statue.

She even offered to pay me a trip to Britain so that Roomy could meet and worship his idol in real life : )

But yeah, despite all the joy and happiness I brought to Roomy’s life, that was a hell of a sick thread...

Jose - are you familiar with the British cartoon character Andy Capp

 

[Diuretic]

Golly, snowman...

I don’t think Diuretic has the required orifice to be my wife...

To say nothing of the lack of proclivity

 

[Diuretic]

Diuretic...

Snowman, with his trip down memory lane, destroyed any possibility for a serious conversation between us. And he did it in the funniest way possible... : )

I laughed so hard at the idea of you being my wife and getting spanked because of Israel I must have bursted at least three hernias.

I no longer have any psychological condition to conduct a debate on this issue with the seriousness a poster of your caliber deserves.

Maybe next time, buddy.

No worries Jose - be careful with those hernias, I had abdominal surgery once, they warned me it would be sore for weeks and they weren't bloody well kidding!

 

[Diuretic]

Diuretic and Matthew Skramer

I promised Gunny a mega thread on the palestinian issue a long time ago based on excerpts from the debate I had with a very knowledgeble argentinian jew named Jorge who lives in Israel and have israeli citizenship.

Haven’t been able to fulfill my promise yet cuz I have a life outside the net, and such an all-encompassing thread will demand an amount time I still don’t have.

But don’t leave the board, you two... stick around cuz “The Clash of the Titans” will eventually be written and posted here and it’ll be well worth reading.

As long as I leave it better educated than when I came in I'm happy to read