Gun culture or parenting culture?

[Skull Pilot]

...but this control fetish goes beyond just children and you know it.
The idea of using taxes to punish behaviors deemed "bad for you" by the powers that be is a favorite ham handed social engineering tool of the control freaks.

I was addressing K-12 public school taxes. What you are talking about is completely different. Please cite some examples of "using taxes to punish behaviors deemed "bad for you"" and, perhaps, we can find something to agree upon.

any sin tax

 

[Divine Wind]

do they KEEP them locked up or is it a revolving door like most prisons?

and no I only want to lock up VIOLENT criminals and keep them locked up

Revolving door initially then, due to mandatory sentencing and "3 strike" laws, 20 to life.

3 felonies but then again how many crimes that are felonies are negotiated down to lesser charges?

A guilty plea = a strike.

I don't agree with mandatory sentencing. I think we lock up too many people for bullshit reasons. OTOH, I think we fail at maximizing the potential of our citizens and that our nation suffers from this lack of foresight.

 

[Divine Wind]

...but this control fetish goes beyond just children and you know it.
The idea of using taxes to punish behaviors deemed "bad for you" by the powers that be is a favorite ham handed social engineering tool of the control freaks.

I was addressing K-12 public school taxes. What you are talking about is completely different. Please cite some examples of "using taxes to punish behaviors deemed "bad for you"" and, perhaps, we can find something to agree upon.

any sin tax

LOL. Agreed. Sin taxes are stupid for two reasons; 1) as you mentioned, it's attempting to control adult behaviors and 2) usually it's taxed for money to fund something good like schools, but what happens is people drink or smoke less and those "school taxes" lose funding.

 

[Skull Pilot]

do they KEEP them locked up or is it a revolving door like most prisons?

and no I only want to lock up VIOLENT criminals and keep them locked up

Revolving door initially then, due to mandatory sentencing and "3 strike" laws, 20 to life.

3 felonies but then again how many crimes that are felonies are negotiated down to lesser charges?

A guilty plea = a strike.

I don't agree with mandatory sentencing. I think we lock up too many people for bullshit reasons. OTOH, I think we fail at maximizing the potential of our citizens and that our nation suffers from this lack of foresight.

do they KEEP them locked up or is it a revolving door like most prisons?

and no I only want to lock up VIOLENT criminals and keep them locked up

Revolving door initially then, due to mandatory sentencing and "3 strike" laws, 20 to life.

3 felonies but then again how many crimes that are felonies are negotiated down to lesser charges?

A guilty plea = a strike.

I don't agree with mandatory sentencing. I think we lock up too many people for bullshit reasons. OTOH, I think we fail at maximizing the potential of our citizens and that our nation suffers from this lack of foresight.

I don't think 3 misdemeanors gets you an automatic 20 years to life

 

[Divine Wind]

do they KEEP them locked up or is it a revolving door like most prisons?

and no I only want to lock up VIOLENT criminals and keep them locked up

Revolving door initially then, due to mandatory sentencing and "3 strike" laws, 20 to life.

3 felonies but then again how many crimes that are felonies are negotiated down to lesser charges?

A guilty plea = a strike.

I don't agree with mandatory sentencing. I think we lock up too many people for bullshit reasons. OTOH, I think we fail at maximizing the potential of our citizens and that our nation suffers from this lack of foresight.

do they KEEP them locked up or is it a revolving door like most prisons?

and no I only want to lock up VIOLENT criminals and keep them locked up

Revolving door initially then, due to mandatory sentencing and "3 strike" laws, 20 to life.

3 felonies but then again how many crimes that are felonies are negotiated down to lesser charges?

A guilty plea = a strike.

I don't agree with mandatory sentencing. I think we lock up too many people for bullshit reasons. OTOH, I think we fail at maximizing the potential of our citizens and that our nation suffers from this lack of foresight.

I don't think 3 misdemeanors gets you an automatic 20 years to life

Correct, but I'm not talking about daddy's little princess boosting some makeup at Walmart. In strict anti-drug states, possession of a small amount of drugs can result in a felony. This sets up a vicious cycle since, in tight job markets, getting a decent job with a felony is less likely than getting one with a face tattoo. The result is usually another felony.

Felony Drug Possession | Criminal Law

Three Strikes Laws in Different States | LegalMatch Law Library

 

[frigidweirdo]

Like the decision of individuals to be slaves?

we have slaves?

No. My point was that you said problems start with the individual. So I was wondering A) if slaves brought on their problems themselves, like the problem of being in slavery and B) the problems that have come from slavery, like racism, segregation, discrimination were brought on black people themselves, or was it the people who are acting in such a manner and have/had the power to do so who were bringing the problems on other people.

The point being that often it isn't the individual who is bringing the problems on themselves, but OTHERS who have the power to impose problems on others.

and yet you want to impose your will on others so they act the way you think they should

And you don't? You don't believe in laws to stop people acting in ways you think they shouldn't?

All kids grow up being told how to think, how to act, what is right, what is wrong. It happens with every single person. You can pretend it doesn't happen, but it does.

No I do not force my will on anyone and I realize unlike you that laws do not stop people from doing anything if they did we would have no crime at all

yes kids do grow up being told what to do but what you don't understand is that if they're not your kids you do not have the right to tell them what to think or do

and the second they reach the age of majority they get to think for themselves and you do not have the right to tell them what to think or coerce them into behavior you think is desirable

But you just said that prisons should lock people up for longer. This is telling people to do things your way or spend the rest of their life locked up.

Laws don't stop all people, just like trying to teach people how to be good adults, good parents also won't work 100% of the time, so based on this logic I'm also not forcing people anything, just trying to direct them.

Well, I might not have the "right" to do this, but I'm not talking about rights.

Number 1, parents have to send their kids to get an education. They can do this at home, if they don't choose home schooling then they're choosing for their kids to be influenced by their teachers. Any good teacher will tell you that behavior management involves manipulating the kids. Some would call it indoctrination. Some would call it shaping kids. Some would call it something else.

Yes, when kids become adults they're able to think for themselves. What this often involves is them using their experiences and their knowledge to them come to conclusions. If they've been trained well they might come to better conclusions that if they haven't.

At no point have I said that people should be forced into thinking.

Actually I'm massively in favor of training kids in how to think for themselves, how to make good decisions, how to do all of this. But then there are plenty of people on the right who don't wish for this to happen.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Yes, I've noticed.

It's funny, this is how it kind of goes.

"We have problems, oh we have lots of problems"

"Here's the solution to your problem"

"Oh, no, no, no, I can't accept that"

Basically too many people won't accept solutions to their problems. It's bizarre. You can have all the debates on here you like about the problems, and the only two conclusions are A) there are solutions that could solve these problems and B) the people don't want to solve these problems, they're just bitchin' because it makes them feel good about themselves.

I wonder whether this is a natural thing. Every empire has fallen, and every empire will fall. And it appears that empires grow to a certain strength and the people then suddenly change, they're born believing that somehow they're destined to greatness, and this is what makes them fall from greatness.

China's up next, and the Chinese are selfish, and you'd better be prepared to be fucked so hard up the ass by the Chinese it'll make you cry.

No, people like solutions, it's just that everybody has a different solution and believe that only theirs can work.

That's what makes the world turn. That's why we have elections. Politicians present their solutions to problems, and you either vote for those solutions or you vote for another persons solutions.

We have an immigration problem. They are draining our social programs, committing crimes, taking our jobs, and lowering our pay rate for American workers.

The Democrat solution is amnesty and open borders. Trump's solution is strict enforcement on illegals and building a wall. The people chose Trump's solution over Hillary's, because Hillary's can't work. It would only net the Democrat party more votes in the future.

Sure they do. The problem is many people on forums like this, their solution is so simple it's not a solution.

Take "lock 'em up" as a solution to dealing with crime. It's simple, and it doesn't seem to work.
Take "make drugs illegal" as a solution to dealing with drugs. It's simple, and it doesn't seem to work.

There are solutions and there are solutions that work because they get to the heart of the problem.

Yes, and there are solutions to the immigration problem and then there are solutions that work, and it's a mentality issue. You have intelligent people not thinking much about how things should be. They just want to let people in all the time as if this works, and they cry racist if you try and stop people getting in.

The people didn't choose Trump's solutions over Hillary's. I doubt most people voted for issues at all. They voted for personality, they voted for hope too. The same with Obama, the same with Bush, the same with Clinton. Bush snr might have been the last president to get elected because people thought he was actually the right guy for the job, and he didn't last very long... that's the mentality of the voters. The voters are the biggest problem the US faces.

actually locking people up does work you just have to keep them locked up

So... Louisiana, lock 'em up capital of the god damn world, has low crime rates? Low murder rates?

No, it doesn't.

So... then.... what?

You're going to lock up half the country, bankrupt the country. Some guy was caught J-walking, you're going to give him life because it's the only way to stop him doing it in the future?

Oh, yeah, you don't want to tell people how to act.

do they KEEP them locked up or is it a revolving door like most prisons?

and no I only want to lock up VIOLENT criminals and keep them locked up

Well, I'd say it's a combination of both. However other places seem to manage with LESS prisoners and LESS crime. Go figure.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

do they KEEP them locked up or is it a revolving door like most prisons?

and no I only want to lock up VIOLENT criminals and keep them locked up

Revolving door initially then, due to mandatory sentencing and "3 strike" laws, 20 to life.

3 felonies but then again how many crimes that are felonies are negotiated down to lesser charges?

A guilty plea = a strike.

I don't agree with mandatory sentencing. I think we lock up too many people for bullshit reasons. OTOH, I think we fail at maximizing the potential of our citizens and that our nation suffers from this lack of foresight.

do they KEEP them locked up or is it a revolving door like most prisons?

and no I only want to lock up VIOLENT criminals and keep them locked up

Revolving door initially then, due to mandatory sentencing and "3 strike" laws, 20 to life.

3 felonies but then again how many crimes that are felonies are negotiated down to lesser charges?

A guilty plea = a strike.

I don't agree with mandatory sentencing. I think we lock up too many people for bullshit reasons. OTOH, I think we fail at maximizing the potential of our citizens and that our nation suffers from this lack of foresight.

I don't think 3 misdemeanors gets you an automatic 20 years to life

Correct, but I'm not talking about daddy's little princess boosting some makeup at Walmart. In strict anti-drug states, possession of a small amount of drugs can result in a felony. This sets up a vicious cycle since, in tight job markets, getting a decent job with a felony is less likely than getting one with a face tattoo. The result is usually another felony.

Felony Drug Possession | Criminal Law

Three Strikes Laws in Different States | LegalMatch Law Library

I'm 56 years old and do you know how many felonies I have ??? None.

If you lead a decent life, getting three felonies is not even a concern of yours.


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

...but this control fetish goes beyond just children and you know it.
The idea of using taxes to punish behaviors deemed "bad for you" by the powers that be is a favorite ham handed social engineering tool of the control freaks.

I was addressing K-12 public school taxes. What you are talking about is completely different. Please cite some examples of "using taxes to punish behaviors deemed "bad for you"" and, perhaps, we can find something to agree upon.

any sin tax

LOL. Agreed. Sin taxes are stupid for two reasons; 1) as you mentioned, it's attempting to control adult behaviors and 2) usually it's taxed for money to fund something good like schools, but what happens is people drink or smoke less and those "school taxes" lose funding.

Sin taxes are used mostly because they attack minority groups of people that can't defend themselves through voting. It's the same reason Democrats target wealthy people. There aren't enough wealthy people to oust a party or candidate.


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

 

[Divine Wind]

I'm 56 years old and do you know how many felonies I have ??? None.

If you lead a decent life, getting three felonies is not even a concern of yours.


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

Are you saying you've never committed a felony or that you've never been convicted of a felony?

Are you attributing your lot in life to luck of birth or skill?

Not all are so fortunate. While not all felons go on to commit additional felonies, for the reasons I previously mentioned, too many do fall into that cycle. It hurts both them and the US taxpayers. TBH, I don't have a complete solution. Ignoring it isn't the answer and just keeping doing what we are doing isn't working either.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

I'm 56 years old and do you know how many felonies I have ??? None.

If you lead a decent life, getting three felonies is not even a concern of yours.


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

Are you saying you've never committed a felony or that you've never been convicted of a felony?

Are you attributing your lot in life to luck of birth or skill?

Not all are so fortunate. While not all felons go on to commit additional felonies, for the reasons I previously mentioned, too many do fall into that cycle. It hurts both them and the US taxpayers. TBH, I don't have a complete solution. Ignoring it isn't the answer and just keeping doing what we are doing isn't working either.

I never committed a felony. It's not that hard. It's not like felonies attack you and you have to fight back.

It's not a "cycle." When you break the law, you are well aware of it. A late friend of mine ended up in jail years ago. When he got out, he cut ties with all the people he hung out with that were responsible for him getting into trouble and he lived a clean life until he passed away a year and a half ago.


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

 

[Divine Wind]

...but this control fetish goes beyond just children and you know it.
The idea of using taxes to punish behaviors deemed "bad for you" by the powers that be is a favorite ham handed social engineering tool of the control freaks.

I was addressing K-12 public school taxes. What you are talking about is completely different. Please cite some examples of "using taxes to punish behaviors deemed "bad for you"" and, perhaps, we can find something to agree upon.

any sin tax

LOL. Agreed. Sin taxes are stupid for two reasons; 1) as you mentioned, it's attempting to control adult behaviors and 2) usually it's taxed for money to fund something good like schools, but what happens is people drink or smoke less and those "school taxes" lose funding.

Sin taxes are used mostly because they attack minority groups of people that can't defend themselves through voting. It's the same reason Democrats target wealthy people. There aren't enough wealthy people to oust a party or candidate.


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

I'm 56 years old and do you know how many felonies I have ??? None.

If you lead a decent life, getting three felonies is not even a concern of yours.


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

Are you saying you've never committed a felony or that you've never been convicted of a felony?

Are you attributing your lot in life to luck of birth or skill?

Not all are so fortunate. While not all felons go on to commit additional felonies, for the reasons I previously mentioned, too many do fall into that cycle. It hurts both them and the US taxpayers. TBH, I don't have a complete solution. Ignoring it isn't the answer and just keeping doing what we are doing isn't working either.

I never committed a felony. It's not that hard. It's not like felonies attack you and you have to fight back.

It's not a "cycle." When you break the law, you are well aware of it. A late friend of mine ended up in jail years ago. When he got out, he cut ties with all the people he hung out with that were responsible for him getting into trouble and he lived a clean life until he passed away a year and a half ago.


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

Awesome. Good for you.

 

[easyt65]

A 'BB' Gun?




Why not just post the story of the kid who got booted from school for eating his Pop Tart in the shape of a gun.

Growing up, much like in the Christmas Story, a BB gun was almost every little boy's Christmas list. When we got them we were taught gun safety, taught if we shot anyone we would get our asses beat and the gun taken away. It was not a federal crime to have a BB gun...or a 'Suspension-able' offense at school to eat a d@mn Pop Tart into the shape of a gun.

Owning a BB gun is not a slippery slope to jail or hell. There are millions of 'kids' who owned BB guns and did not turn out to be criminals / thugs / jailbirds.

Is it a 'gun' problem? NO

Is it a 'parent' problem? Maybe, in some cases, but you can't always blame the parent either fof 'free will'.

Ask any parent if they can control their children's lives, make their choices for them. The answer is 'No'.

 

[boilermaker55]

Play ignorant, like those of your ilk do when they have no facts.
Pissing backwards.

A gun nut pissing backwards!

What do you mean by "gun nut"? Same goes by "pissing backwards". In my experience, pissing backwards off a moving truck or downwind is the best way to do it.

 

[Skull Pilot]

we have slaves?

No. My point was that you said problems start with the individual. So I was wondering A) if slaves brought on their problems themselves, like the problem of being in slavery and B) the problems that have come from slavery, like racism, segregation, discrimination were brought on black people themselves, or was it the people who are acting in such a manner and have/had the power to do so who were bringing the problems on other people.

The point being that often it isn't the individual who is bringing the problems on themselves, but OTHERS who have the power to impose problems on others.

and yet you want to impose your will on others so they act the way you think they should

And you don't? You don't believe in laws to stop people acting in ways you think they shouldn't?

All kids grow up being told how to think, how to act, what is right, what is wrong. It happens with every single person. You can pretend it doesn't happen, but it does.

No I do not force my will on anyone and I realize unlike you that laws do not stop people from doing anything if they did we would have no crime at all

yes kids do grow up being told what to do but what you don't understand is that if they're not your kids you do not have the right to tell them what to think or do

and the second they reach the age of majority they get to think for themselves and you do not have the right to tell them what to think or coerce them into behavior you think is desirable

But you just said that prisons should lock people up for longer. This is telling people to do things your way or spend the rest of their life locked up.

Laws don't stop all people, just like trying to teach people how to be good adults, good parents also won't work 100% of the time, so based on this logic I'm also not forcing people anything, just trying to direct them.

Well, I might not have the "right" to do this, but I'm not talking about rights.

Number 1, parents have to send their kids to get an education. They can do this at home, if they don't choose home schooling then they're choosing for their kids to be influenced by their teachers. Any good teacher will tell you that behavior management involves manipulating the kids. Some would call it indoctrination. Some would call it shaping kids. Some would call it something else.

Yes, when kids become adults they're able to think for themselves. What this often involves is them using their experiences and their knowledge to them come to conclusions. If they've been trained well they might come to better conclusions that if they haven't.

At no point have I said that people should be forced into thinking.

Actually I'm massively in favor of training kids in how to think for themselves, how to make good decisions, how to do all of this. But then there are plenty of people on the right who don't wish for this to happen.

defining a set of rules is not telling people how to live.

IMO the only thing people should be sent to prison for are violent crimes people who are violent need to be separated from the rest of us

and from what I gather you want people to make what YOU think are good decisions

 

[frigidweirdo]

No. My point was that you said problems start with the individual. So I was wondering A) if slaves brought on their problems themselves, like the problem of being in slavery and B) the problems that have come from slavery, like racism, segregation, discrimination were brought on black people themselves, or was it the people who are acting in such a manner and have/had the power to do so who were bringing the problems on other people.

The point being that often it isn't the individual who is bringing the problems on themselves, but OTHERS who have the power to impose problems on others.

and yet you want to impose your will on others so they act the way you think they should

And you don't? You don't believe in laws to stop people acting in ways you think they shouldn't?

All kids grow up being told how to think, how to act, what is right, what is wrong. It happens with every single person. You can pretend it doesn't happen, but it does.

No I do not force my will on anyone and I realize unlike you that laws do not stop people from doing anything if they did we would have no crime at all

yes kids do grow up being told what to do but what you don't understand is that if they're not your kids you do not have the right to tell them what to think or do

and the second they reach the age of majority they get to think for themselves and you do not have the right to tell them what to think or coerce them into behavior you think is desirable

But you just said that prisons should lock people up for longer. This is telling people to do things your way or spend the rest of their life locked up.

Laws don't stop all people, just like trying to teach people how to be good adults, good parents also won't work 100% of the time, so based on this logic I'm also not forcing people anything, just trying to direct them.

Well, I might not have the "right" to do this, but I'm not talking about rights.

Number 1, parents have to send their kids to get an education. They can do this at home, if they don't choose home schooling then they're choosing for their kids to be influenced by their teachers. Any good teacher will tell you that behavior management involves manipulating the kids. Some would call it indoctrination. Some would call it shaping kids. Some would call it something else.

Yes, when kids become adults they're able to think for themselves. What this often involves is them using their experiences and their knowledge to them come to conclusions. If they've been trained well they might come to better conclusions that if they haven't.

At no point have I said that people should be forced into thinking.

Actually I'm massively in favor of training kids in how to think for themselves, how to make good decisions, how to do all of this. But then there are plenty of people on the right who don't wish for this to happen.

defining a set of rules is not telling people how to live.

IMO the only thing people should be sent to prison for are violent crimes people who are violent need to be separated from the rest of us

and from what I gather you want people to make what YOU think are good decisions

Yes, actually, it is.

If you tell people they can walk naked around the streets, then you're preventing them walking naked around the streets. This is telling them that they can't live by walking naked around the streets.

Well prisons are used for much, much more than just violent crimes. People feel that other offenses are also worthy of taking away someone's liberty.

And from what you gather.... so, this isn't about me, this is about you?

 

[Skull Pilot]

and yet you want to impose your will on others so they act the way you think they should

And you don't? You don't believe in laws to stop people acting in ways you think they shouldn't?

All kids grow up being told how to think, how to act, what is right, what is wrong. It happens with every single person. You can pretend it doesn't happen, but it does.

No I do not force my will on anyone and I realize unlike you that laws do not stop people from doing anything if they did we would have no crime at all

yes kids do grow up being told what to do but what you don't understand is that if they're not your kids you do not have the right to tell them what to think or do

and the second they reach the age of majority they get to think for themselves and you do not have the right to tell them what to think or coerce them into behavior you think is desirable

But you just said that prisons should lock people up for longer. This is telling people to do things your way or spend the rest of their life locked up.

Laws don't stop all people, just like trying to teach people how to be good adults, good parents also won't work 100% of the time, so based on this logic I'm also not forcing people anything, just trying to direct them.

Well, I might not have the "right" to do this, but I'm not talking about rights.

Number 1, parents have to send their kids to get an education. They can do this at home, if they don't choose home schooling then they're choosing for their kids to be influenced by their teachers. Any good teacher will tell you that behavior management involves manipulating the kids. Some would call it indoctrination. Some would call it shaping kids. Some would call it something else.

Yes, when kids become adults they're able to think for themselves. What this often involves is them using their experiences and their knowledge to them come to conclusions. If they've been trained well they might come to better conclusions that if they haven't.

At no point have I said that people should be forced into thinking.

Actually I'm massively in favor of training kids in how to think for themselves, how to make good decisions, how to do all of this. But then there are plenty of people on the right who don't wish for this to happen.

defining a set of rules is not telling people how to live.

IMO the only thing people should be sent to prison for are violent crimes people who are violent need to be separated from the rest of us

and from what I gather you want people to make what YOU think are good decisions

Yes, actually, it is.

If you tell people they can walk naked around the streets, then you're preventing them walking naked around the streets. This is telling them that they can't live by walking naked around the streets.

Well prisons are used for much, much more than just violent crimes. People feel that other offenses are also worthy of taking away someone's liberty.

And from what you gather.... so, this isn't about me, this is about you?

I would never tell anyone that.

and you seem not to understand that committing a crime against another person is nothing but the criminal forcing their will on their victim

 

[frigidweirdo]

And you don't? You don't believe in laws to stop people acting in ways you think they shouldn't?

All kids grow up being told how to think, how to act, what is right, what is wrong. It happens with every single person. You can pretend it doesn't happen, but it does.

No I do not force my will on anyone and I realize unlike you that laws do not stop people from doing anything if they did we would have no crime at all

yes kids do grow up being told what to do but what you don't understand is that if they're not your kids you do not have the right to tell them what to think or do

and the second they reach the age of majority they get to think for themselves and you do not have the right to tell them what to think or coerce them into behavior you think is desirable

But you just said that prisons should lock people up for longer. This is telling people to do things your way or spend the rest of their life locked up.

Laws don't stop all people, just like trying to teach people how to be good adults, good parents also won't work 100% of the time, so based on this logic I'm also not forcing people anything, just trying to direct them.

Well, I might not have the "right" to do this, but I'm not talking about rights.

Number 1, parents have to send their kids to get an education. They can do this at home, if they don't choose home schooling then they're choosing for their kids to be influenced by their teachers. Any good teacher will tell you that behavior management involves manipulating the kids. Some would call it indoctrination. Some would call it shaping kids. Some would call it something else.

Yes, when kids become adults they're able to think for themselves. What this often involves is them using their experiences and their knowledge to them come to conclusions. If they've been trained well they might come to better conclusions that if they haven't.

At no point have I said that people should be forced into thinking.

Actually I'm massively in favor of training kids in how to think for themselves, how to make good decisions, how to do all of this. But then there are plenty of people on the right who don't wish for this to happen.

defining a set of rules is not telling people how to live.

IMO the only thing people should be sent to prison for are violent crimes people who are violent need to be separated from the rest of us

and from what I gather you want people to make what YOU think are good decisions

Yes, actually, it is.

If you tell people they can walk naked around the streets, then you're preventing them walking naked around the streets. This is telling them that they can't live by walking naked around the streets.

Well prisons are used for much, much more than just violent crimes. People feel that other offenses are also worthy of taking away someone's liberty.

And from what you gather.... so, this isn't about me, this is about you?

I would never tell anyone that.

and you seem not to understand that committing a crime against another person is nothing but the criminal forcing their will on their victim

I'm not sure how you've come to the conclusions that I seem not to understand.

You might not tell someone that, but thems the laws, and there are plenty of laws which basically tell people how to act. There's a reason for many of them, that we live in a society and in order for people to live peacefully together in society, people have to respect each other, and follow certain rules in order not to piss others off.

 

[Skull Pilot]

No I do not force my will on anyone and I realize unlike you that laws do not stop people from doing anything if they did we would have no crime at all

yes kids do grow up being told what to do but what you don't understand is that if they're not your kids you do not have the right to tell them what to think or do

and the second they reach the age of majority they get to think for themselves and you do not have the right to tell them what to think or coerce them into behavior you think is desirable

But you just said that prisons should lock people up for longer. This is telling people to do things your way or spend the rest of their life locked up.

Laws don't stop all people, just like trying to teach people how to be good adults, good parents also won't work 100% of the time, so based on this logic I'm also not forcing people anything, just trying to direct them.

Well, I might not have the "right" to do this, but I'm not talking about rights.

Number 1, parents have to send their kids to get an education. They can do this at home, if they don't choose home schooling then they're choosing for their kids to be influenced by their teachers. Any good teacher will tell you that behavior management involves manipulating the kids. Some would call it indoctrination. Some would call it shaping kids. Some would call it something else.

Yes, when kids become adults they're able to think for themselves. What this often involves is them using their experiences and their knowledge to them come to conclusions. If they've been trained well they might come to better conclusions that if they haven't.

At no point have I said that people should be forced into thinking.

Actually I'm massively in favor of training kids in how to think for themselves, how to make good decisions, how to do all of this. But then there are plenty of people on the right who don't wish for this to happen.

defining a set of rules is not telling people how to live.

IMO the only thing people should be sent to prison for are violent crimes people who are violent need to be separated from the rest of us

and from what I gather you want people to make what YOU think are good decisions

Yes, actually, it is.

If you tell people they can walk naked around the streets, then you're preventing them walking naked around the streets. This is telling them that they can't live by walking naked around the streets.

Well prisons are used for much, much more than just violent crimes. People feel that other offenses are also worthy of taking away someone's liberty.

And from what you gather.... so, this isn't about me, this is about you?

I would never tell anyone that.

and you seem not to understand that committing a crime against another person is nothing but the criminal forcing their will on their victim

I'm not sure how you've come to the conclusions that I seem not to understand.

You might not tell someone that, but thems the laws, and there are plenty of laws which basically tell people how to act. There's a reason for many of them, that we live in a society and in order for people to live peacefully together in society, people have to respect each other, and follow certain rules in order not to piss others off.

the only rule we really need is that no one is allowed to force their will on another

yet that is exactly what you want to do.

 

[frigidweirdo]

But you just said that prisons should lock people up for longer. This is telling people to do things your way or spend the rest of their life locked up.

Laws don't stop all people, just like trying to teach people how to be good adults, good parents also won't work 100% of the time, so based on this logic I'm also not forcing people anything, just trying to direct them.

Well, I might not have the "right" to do this, but I'm not talking about rights.

Number 1, parents have to send their kids to get an education. They can do this at home, if they don't choose home schooling then they're choosing for their kids to be influenced by their teachers. Any good teacher will tell you that behavior management involves manipulating the kids. Some would call it indoctrination. Some would call it shaping kids. Some would call it something else.

Yes, when kids become adults they're able to think for themselves. What this often involves is them using their experiences and their knowledge to them come to conclusions. If they've been trained well they might come to better conclusions that if they haven't.

At no point have I said that people should be forced into thinking.

Actually I'm massively in favor of training kids in how to think for themselves, how to make good decisions, how to do all of this. But then there are plenty of people on the right who don't wish for this to happen.

defining a set of rules is not telling people how to live.

IMO the only thing people should be sent to prison for are violent crimes people who are violent need to be separated from the rest of us

and from what I gather you want people to make what YOU think are good decisions

Yes, actually, it is.

If you tell people they can walk naked around the streets, then you're preventing them walking naked around the streets. This is telling them that they can't live by walking naked around the streets.

Well prisons are used for much, much more than just violent crimes. People feel that other offenses are also worthy of taking away someone's liberty.

And from what you gather.... so, this isn't about me, this is about you?

I would never tell anyone that.

and you seem not to understand that committing a crime against another person is nothing but the criminal forcing their will on their victim

I'm not sure how you've come to the conclusions that I seem not to understand.

You might not tell someone that, but thems the laws, and there are plenty of laws which basically tell people how to act. There's a reason for many of them, that we live in a society and in order for people to live peacefully together in society, people have to respect each other, and follow certain rules in order not to piss others off.

the only rule we really need is that no one is allowed to force their will on another

yet that is exactly what you want to do.

Because it's impossible not to. That's life. The question is, is the person, or people, who do this, doing the right thing or not doing the right thing?

We all live in society. Society sets rules. It sets rules by law and it sets rules by morals and it sets rules by other means. You don't have to like it and you don't have to accept it, but it's there. And I know it's there because I've lived in various countries on three continents and seen the different rules and different ways of life.

Anarchy is the absence of rules. But with anarchy comes people trying to grab power. You can't have the power vacuum that you seem to want to set up. Someone will always come to the fore and tell others what to do.

Again, you don't have to accept this is the truth, but it is none the less.