Growth in renewable energy greater than all others

[idb]

Better get with the program America.
China and India are beating you to the highest growth sector in energy production.

The U.S. Energy Information Administration's International Energy Outlook 2011 (IEO2011) projects that the amount of global hydroelectric and other renewable electric generating capacity will rise 2.7% per year through 2035, more than any other electricity generating source (see chart above). The IEO2011 also projects that China and India will lead the way in adding hydroelectric and renewable electric generating capacity

Renewable energy shows strongest growth in global electric generating capacity - Today in Energy - U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA)

 

[flacaltenn]

You wanna build more dams?? Actually new dams are a HUGE source of CO2... THought that was killing the planet?? Yu green shoots need to get your story straight...

 

[idb]

You wanna build more dams?? Actually new dams are a HUGE source of CO2... THought that was killing the planet?? Yu green shoots need to get your story straight...

Have you read it, it's not just about dams?

There's a whole industry in developing solar panels, wind farms etc that the rest of the world is buying into while America is wasting money and resources trying to build new pipelines.

Dams, a huge source of CO2?
How so?

 

[flacaltenn]

You wanna build more dams?? Actually new dams are a HUGE source of CO2... THought that was killing the planet?? Yu green shoots need to get your story straight...

Have you read it, it's not just about dams?

There's a whole industry in developing solar panels, wind farms etc that the rest of the world is buying into while America is wasting money and resources trying to build new pipelines.

Dams, a huge source of CO2?
How so?

Now this is from a group shilling for hydro power, but it's kinda objective..

http://clf.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/Hydropower-GHG-Emissions-Feb.-14-2012.pdf

There's a chart on the 1st couple pages showing the emissions/Mwhr for 3 sitings of hydro.. From natural river gorges, thru arboreal forests, and into tropical regions..

The CO2 emissions range from about 25% of a nat gas plant to more than 1000% of a nat gas plant depending on the land that was flooded..

It's obvious when you think about it.. You flood a large area of land and in the process take that land from a neutral carbon state to only an emitting state. All that buried biomass decays into GHGases.. So the effect is especially bad for NEW facilities... This was only RECENTLY discovered ((if you can believe that)) because countries in TROPICAL regions were starting the expansions you laid out in the OP.. (Does India ring a bell?)

And measurements from some of their NEW dams were jaw-droppingly high..

Anyway --- I'm really NOT impressed by building out renewables because with every Watt of renewable generation -- you need something else to provide the primary power when the sun isn't there and the wind don't blow. Hydro is GOOD for this because it can be dialed up or down quickly.. Much more efficient than dumping good power from a fossil plant.

But then hydro -- at least LARGE SCALE hydro -- isn't even ON THE list of Green alternatives as far as Sierra Club and other Green orgs go...

That's why I said --- you need to get the OFFICIAL LIST of green "alternatives" before you start cheering...

 

[idb]

You wanna build more dams?? Actually new dams are a HUGE source of CO2... THought that was killing the planet?? Yu green shoots need to get your story straight...

Have you read it, it's not just about dams?

There's a whole industry in developing solar panels, wind farms etc that the rest of the world is buying into while America is wasting money and resources trying to build new pipelines.

Dams, a huge source of CO2?
How so?

Now this is from a group shilling for hydro power, but it's kinda objective..

http://clf.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/Hydropower-GHG-Emissions-Feb.-14-2012.pdf

There's a chart on the 1st couple pages showing the emissions/Mwhr for 3 sitings of hydro.. From natural river gorges, thru arboreal forests, and into tropical regions..

The CO2 emissions range from about 25% of a nat gas plant to more than 1000% of a nat gas plant depending on the land that was flooded..

It's obvious when you think about it.. You flood a large area of land and in the process take that land from a neutral carbon state to only an emitting state. All that buried biomass decays into GHGases.. So the effect is especially bad for NEW facilities... This was only RECENTLY discovered ((if you can believe that)) because countries in TROPICAL regions were starting the expansions you laid out in the OP.. (Does India ring a bell?)

And measurements from some of their NEW dams were jaw-droppingly high..

Anyway --- I'm really NOT impressed by building out renewables because with every Watt of renewable generation -- you need something else to provide the primary power when the sun isn't there and the wind don't blow. Hydro is GOOD for this because it can be dialed up or down quickly.. Much more efficient than dumping good power from a fossil plant.

But then hydro -- at least LARGE SCALE hydro -- isn't even ON THE list of Green alternatives as far as Sierra Club and other Green orgs go...

That's why I said --- you need to get the OFFICIAL LIST of green "alternatives" before you start cheering...

Why do you even care what the CO2 implications are?
The point I was making is that the US is letting other countries steal a march on it in developing the technology.
Agree or disagree about the science I don't care but fossil fuels are going out of fashion and the new market will be dominated by the Chinese and Europe.

Don't worry though, maybe the Chinese will open factories in America to build their solar panels when the labour costs get too expensive at home.
Then you'll all have a job.

Mwahahahahahaaaaaaa!!!!!

 

[flacaltenn]

Have you read it, it's not just about dams?

There's a whole industry in developing solar panels, wind farms etc that the rest of the world is buying into while America is wasting money and resources trying to build new pipelines.

Dams, a huge source of CO2?
How so?

Now this is from a group shilling for hydro power, but it's kinda objective..

http://clf.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/Hydropower-GHG-Emissions-Feb.-14-2012.pdf

There's a chart on the 1st couple pages showing the emissions/Mwhr for 3 sitings of hydro.. From natural river gorges, thru arboreal forests, and into tropical regions..

The CO2 emissions range from about 25% of a nat gas plant to more than 1000% of a nat gas plant depending on the land that was flooded..

It's obvious when you think about it.. You flood a large area of land and in the process take that land from a neutral carbon state to only an emitting state. All that buried biomass decays into GHGases.. So the effect is especially bad for NEW facilities... This was only RECENTLY discovered ((if you can believe that)) because countries in TROPICAL regions were starting the expansions you laid out in the OP.. (Does India ring a bell?)

And measurements from some of their NEW dams were jaw-droppingly high..

Anyway --- I'm really NOT impressed by building out renewables because with every Watt of renewable generation -- you need something else to provide the primary power when the sun isn't there and the wind don't blow. Hydro is GOOD for this because it can be dialed up or down quickly.. Much more efficient than dumping good power from a fossil plant.

But then hydro -- at least LARGE SCALE hydro -- isn't even ON THE list of Green alternatives as far as Sierra Club and other Green orgs go...

That's why I said --- you need to get the OFFICIAL LIST of green "alternatives" before you start cheering...

Why do you even care what the CO2 implications are?
The point I was making is that the US is letting other countries steal a march on it in developing the technology.
Agree or disagree about the science I don't care but fossil fuels are going out of fashion and the new market will be dominated by the Chinese and Europe.

Don't worry though, maybe the Chinese will open factories in America to build their solar panels when the labour costs get too expensive at home.
Then you'll all have a job.

Mwahahahahahaaaaaaa!!!!!

My ONLY concern about CO2 emissions of hydro is to hold the enviro-nuts to sane scientific consistency.. I personally wouldn't dismiss CO2 emissions as totally irrelevent.. Probably WAAAAY down my list of concerns. But it does marginally raise the surface temp eventually. NO WHERE near the claims..

Fossil fuels can't go out of fashion until you're willing to replace them with REAL reliable alternatives. Solar is a daytime "supplement". Wind is so entirely sketchy -- I personally think it's a waste of effort. If you add capacity with wind -- it comes with the cost of building a parallel PRIMARY capacity in something else..

The rest of eco-nut list of alternatives is mostly bad ideas or environment nightmares.

The reason why China could take over the production of solar is because that tech fundamentally matured 20 years ago.. There are advances NOW -- but mostly applicable to space ships and other "cost oblivious" applications..

We shouldn't be expecting MASSIVE breakthrus in either wind or solar.. The advances to be made there are HOW we use those supplements. Like for desalinization or making hydrogen as a fuel --- applications where guaranteed generation rates aren't as important as keeping the hospital lights on..

 

[westwall]

Better get with the program America.
China and India are beating you to the highest growth sector in energy production.

The U.S. Energy Information Administration's International Energy Outlook 2011 (IEO2011) projects that the amount of global hydroelectric and other renewable electric generating capacity will rise 2.7% per year through 2035, more than any other electricity generating source (see chart above). The IEO2011 also projects that China and India will lead the way in adding hydroelectric and renewable electric generating capacity

Renewable energy shows strongest growth in global electric generating capacity - Today in Energy - U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA)

When one is starting from such an infinitesimally low number it's pretty easy to make that claim. It however, doesn't really mean anything.

 

[Old Rocks]

In the US, wind has grown from 2 gW to 60 gW from 1999 to 2012. That rate of growth is likely to continue, as we have yet to touch some of the best areas for wind in the US.

Wind Powering America: U.S. Installed Wind Capacity

 

[Old Rocks]

U.S. Solar Market Insight | SEIA

The U.S. installed 723 megawatts (MW) of solar energy in Q1 2013, which accounted for over 48 percent of all new electric capacity installed in the U.S. last quarter. Overall, these installations represent the best first quarter of any given year for the industry. Read the Executive Summary

Much of this is in individual homes or businesses, creating more economic freedom for the individual home or business.

 

[Old Rocks]

Photo Gallery: Projects Energized in Q1 2013

Utility PV installations in the U.S. grew 670% over the course of just two years from 2010 to 2012. In 2012 alone, 1,769 MW of utility PV was connected to the grid – 59% more than the cumulative total in all prior years. See our photo gallery of some notable projects that went online in the first three months of 2013....read more

Now that is a growth rate that won't be maintained for long. But PV is going to be a major player in the near future.

 

[flacaltenn]

U.S. Solar Market Insight | SEIA

The U.S. installed 723 megawatts (MW) of solar energy in Q1 2013, which accounted for over 48 percent of all new electric capacity installed in the U.S. last quarter. Overall, these installations represent the best first quarter of any given year for the industry. Read the Executive Summary

Much of this is in individual homes or businesses, creating more economic freedom for the individual home or business.

See WestWalls comment above.. When you're starting from zero the numbers are truely impressive to dummies..

The other confounding item is --- we are not building ANYTHING ELSE of any scale.. So being 48% of new capacity in a single quarter is not saying much..

What's the derating on that 723MWatt? How much installed in Cleveland, or Albany?

 

[Old Rocks]

Like compound interest, the numbers get large rather quickly with that kind of growth.

 

[FactFinder]

Growth in renewable energy greater than all others

As soon as it is actually affordable and only if done so honestly without negatively jacking up conventional energy to try to make it appear competitive.

 

[Old Rocks]

Were the fossil fuel industry made to pay the externalities associated with the use of coal and petroleum, the cost would be very high. Instead, we citizens get to pay for asthma, autism, acid rain, and all the other nicities associated with the use of fossil fuels.

 

[idb]

Were the fossil fuel industry made to pay the externalities associated with the use of coal and petroleum, the cost would be very high. Instead, we citizens get to pay for asthma, autism, acid rain, and all the other nicities associated with the use of fossil fuels.

Quite apart from the subsidies, tax breaks, freedom from true cleanup costs after spills, etc

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Better get with the program America.
China and India are beating you to the highest growth sector in energy production.

The U.S. Energy Information Administration's International Energy Outlook 2011 (IEO2011) projects that the amount of global hydroelectric and other renewable electric generating capacity will rise 2.7% per year through 2035, more than any other electricity generating source (see chart above). The IEO2011 also projects that China and India will lead the way in adding hydroelectric and renewable electric generating capacity

Renewable energy shows strongest growth in global electric generating capacity - Today in Energy - U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA)

They projected this in 2011, in 2012 natural gas proved them wrong.

 

[flacaltenn]

Autism???

I thought that hollywood movie stars said vaccinations caused autism... Pollution from vehicles goes DOWN, emissions from power plants goes DOWN and autism skyrockets? Explain..

 

[westwall]

Were the fossil fuel industry made to pay the externalities associated with the use of coal and petroleum, the cost would be very high. Instead, we citizens get to pay for asthma, autism, acid rain, and all the other nicities associated with the use of fossil fuels.

I love how you guys blame all sorts of nebulous costs on the various industries you don't like. I actually know the environmental damage they cause because I've made a career of cleaning it up and if they were half as dangerous as you say they are I would have never made to my ripe old age.

 

[westwall]

Were the fossil fuel industry made to pay the externalities associated with the use of coal and petroleum, the cost would be very high. Instead, we citizens get to pay for asthma, autism, acid rain, and all the other nicities associated with the use of fossil fuels.

Quite apart from the subsidies, tax breaks, freedom from true cleanup costs after spills, etc

How much are you going to charge the solar panel companies for poisoning the indigenous peoples working in the factories that produce them? How much are you going to charge the companies for the massive environmental damage they are producing RIGHT NOW....and are you going to be pissed off when they pass those costs along to the end users?

Right now it can be stated that solar panel users are responsible for more environmental damage than car drivers on a per capita basis. You should be proud....

 

[westwall]

Autism???

I thought that hollywood movie stars said vaccinations caused autism... Pollution from vehicles goes DOWN, emissions from power plants goes DOWN and autism skyrockets? Explain..

Every disease known to man is caused by the oil companies....don't you know that