Good work if you can get it: Federal workers making 78% more than private sector counterparts

[ScienceRocks]

Just shows how ******* cheap the private sector is. They love their cheap labor and sending jobs over sea's.

At least the government gives a shit about people paying for things to survive.

 

[Dad2three]

In Texas and Alabama and most red states

i HATE/DESPISE the way some people label "red-states" as lesser. They are USA citizens with education, families, skin in the game. Like any state there is a distribution of IQ or common sense.

True. But ideological differences exist within the states and among the states in terms of the liberal conservative paradigm.

CA is as Red as any outside of LA/SF/Bezerkly. People who want need depend on GOVT services congregate to population centers for handouts. Once they get hand-outs it like feeding stray cats.

Actually NO, Calif is BLUE EXCEPT the Inland *(can you say farmers exploiting immigrants)...

The entire coast of Cali is DEEP blue, the cities (SJ, SF, LA, SD, SACRAMENTO,ARE BLUE).

The least educated AND least wealthy/incomes, inland Salinas Valley, San Joaquin, Fooot hills of NCali, ARE the red areas here!

 

[OnePercenter]

A simi-skilled laborer, for the City of Houston, working in Parks and Recreation, only makes $24-28,000 a year. If this is the golden parachute you are referring to, I'm going to assume you are living off a crazy check you receive from the Government once a month.

Does that include benefits?

 

[OnePercenter]

I doubt you even know what fresh air smells like since your head is permanently stuffed up your posterior. A city janitor starts out at $17/hr with great benefits. No private company can afford to be so generous, their customers won't pay it. You tightass liberals sure won't. You love to spend other people's money but hold onto your own for dear life.

Does the $17.00/hr include benefits?

 

[Dad2three]

I'm not the one wailing about the wealthy. they either earned it, inherited it etc. this is GOVERMENT workers who WE THE PEOPLE have to pay their salaries. SO THERE is no comparison. Now why should they MAKE MORE than us? they don't do anything that most of us couldn't do. it's not specialty work, unless you call a Janitor special. some of it is but most is NOT

The federal government does not employ any janitors....they are contracted out to the lowest bidder

not so in the PO.....they hire many people with physical disabilities to do the janitorial work....

Harry I know you worked in the PO. and I'm NOT saying all workers for the Government is there to take advantage of us taxpayers. but how is this Fair for them to make so much more? and then the left/dems wails about income equality.

ups drivers were making $5.00 more an hour than letter carriers and they are Teamsters a pretty powerful union and they had pretty decent benefits too...

they are? let's see the info.

UPS Driver
67 UPS Salaries
$30.50/hr

Account Executive
52 UPS Salaries
$57,155

http://www.glassdoor.com/Salary/UPS-Salaries-E3012.htm



Rural Carrier Associate USPS
US Postal Service (3 US Postal Service Salaries)
$19.46/hr

http://www.glassdoor.com/Salaries/usps-carrier-salary-SRCH_KO0,12.htm

Postal Service Mail Carriers
Mean hourly wage
$24.90

Postal Service Mail Carriers

 

[Harry Dresden]

I'm not the one wailing about the wealthy. they either earned it, inherited it etc. this is GOVERMENT workers who WE THE PEOPLE have to pay their salaries. SO THERE is no comparison. Now why should they MAKE MORE than us? they don't do anything that most of us couldn't do. it's not specialty work, unless you call a Janitor special. some of it is but most is NOT

The federal government does not employ any janitors....they are contracted out to the lowest bidder

not so in the PO.....they hire many people with physical disabilities to do the janitorial work....

Harry I know you worked in the PO. and I'm NOT saying all workers for the Government is there to take advantage of us taxpayers. but how is this Fair for them to make so much more? and then the left/dems wails about income equality.

ups drivers were making $5.00 more an hour than letter carriers and they are Teamsters a pretty powerful union and they had pretty decent benefits too...

they are? let's see the info.

http://www.glassdoor.com/Salary/UPS-Driver-Salaries-E3012_D_KO4,10.htm
http://www.browncafe.com/community/threads/driver-starting-pay.334756/....
this is a post from a driver...
The "Top Rate" varies a bit from one area to another. In New England it is currently $29.965 per hour. It is scheduled to go up every six months until it 2/1/2013, when the Top Rate will be $32.14. (Some raisesmightbe redirected into the pension fund.)

When a New Hire completes his three year progression, his payrate jumps up to whatever the Top Rate is at that time.

Six out of seven drivers come from the part-time ranks. If they were on the payroll before 8/1/2008 and are making more than the progression rate, they keep their higher rate until the progression exceeds their part-time rate.

The Contract and Supplements:
http://www.teamster.org/sites/teamsters.prometheuslabor.com/files/03 06 09 Final UPS Master Agreemnt 2008-2013.pdf
UPS Contracts and Supplements | Teamsters for a Democratic Union



Read more:Driver starting pay

 

[Carla_Danger]

A simi-skilled laborer, for the City of Houston, working in Parks and Recreation, only makes $24-28,000 a year. If this is the golden parachute you are referring to, I'm going to assume you are living off a crazy check you receive from the Government once a month.

Does that include benefits?

I haven't had time to check. I'm pretty sure medical would be taken out of the bi-weekly checks at the city.

I can tell you that my father is retired from the City, and his retirement was no golden parachute. Hell, rent in Houston, for a mediocre 1 bedroom apartment is approx. $600 a month. $24-28K is not that much to live on these days.

Here's the link.

City of Houston Careers | Houston eGov Website

 

[Dad2three]

uhmmmm.......they borrow huge amounts each year from FED to offset losses....do not pay fees like private......on and on it goes again. summed up in below link. quick easy scan read......
U.S. Post Office gets an $18 billion gift from taxpayers every year - Fortune

GET THE FUKKKK OFF RIGHT WING TALKING POINTS, GEEZUS FUKKN KRIST

YOUR LINK

"
Laws that bar any other shipping service from delivering mail and packages directly to residential and business mailboxes. Shapiro estimates that this gives the Post Office a $14 billion annual boost, more than three times what the Postal Regulatory Commission estimates it to be. Shapiro argues that the PRC’s analysis doesn’t take into account the productivity gains that the Post Office would be forced to make if it really had to compete for mailbox delivery. He points out that productivity at USPS has only grown by 0.7% per year versus 2.5% for its competition."


LOL

The USPS has not directly received taxpayer-dollars since the early 1980s with the exception of subsidies for costs associated with the disabled and overseas voters


United States Postal Service - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

USPS loses money each year (other than few years) . Somebody is subsidizing "it". The link showed.

yes I saw. they must pre-pay pension obligations. Always a story. they would be GREAT w/o that.

You mean instead of "losing" $5 billion by paying $5.5 billion in prefunded retirement UNLIKE ANY GOV'T OR PRIVATE SECTOR SECTOR? Yep...They'd have a PROFIT!

This guy here is a SOCIALIST hack, pay no attention.

The truth is...................corporations and businesses in this country who have STANDARD retirement benefits, MUST keep their retirements funded to the tune of 80 something %. The post office did not do this. (why are we not surprised)

And so, why is the post office NOW having to do this? Postal Service Faces $100B in Debts and Unfunded Benefits That is why!

Socialist huh? lol

Federal Private-Pension Safety Net Running $62 Billion Deficit

(that's Gov't bailing out the "private sector" again)

Pension Benefit Guaranty Corp. Report Warns of Problems with Multiemployer Pension Plans


Federal Private-Pension Safety Net Running $62 Billion Deficit



The 80% Pension Funding Standard Myth

https://www.actuary.org/files/80_Percent_Funding_IB_071912.pdf



Underfunding of Private Pension Plans


In the case of “defined contribution” plans, the burden of these losses fell on the beneficiaries rather than on the sponsoring firms. In these plans, the employer provides an account for each participant and specifies only how contributions to each account are to be determined, not the amount of benefits the individual is to receive. Therefore, since the participant’s benefits depend solely on the amount of the contribution and the return earned on investing it, the employee bears all the investment risk.

In the case of “defined benefit” plans, in contrast, employers bear the investment risk, because the amount of the pension benefit is fixed according to a formula that usually involves such factors as the employee’s age, years of service, and compensation. Today, many firms sponsoring these plans now face a sizable gap between the value of their plan assets and the current value of their pension obligations. As a result, these firms must meet large re-funding requirements under the Employee Retirement Income Security Act (ERISA).

In this Economic Letter, I focus on the underfunding of defined benefit (DB) plans, whose assets account for about 43% of the $3.69 trillion total.
Underfunding of Private Pension Plans

 

[Dad2three]

The United States Postal Service, also known as the Post Office, U.S. Mail, or Postal Service, often abbreviated as USPS, is an independent agency of the United States federal government responsible for providing postal service in the United States. It is one of the few government agencies explicitly authorized by the United States Constitution.


The USPS has not directly received taxpayer-dollars since the early 1980s with the exception of subsidies for costs associated with the disabled and overseas voters

United States Postal Service - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

uhmmmm.......they borrow huge amounts each year from FED to offset losses....do not pay fees like private......on and on it goes again. summed up in below link. quick easy scan read......
U.S. Post Office gets an $18 billion gift from taxpayers every year - Fortune

GET THE FUKKKK OFF RIGHT WING TALKING POINTS, GEEZUS FUKKN KRIST

YOUR LINK

"
Laws that bar any other shipping service from delivering mail and packages directly to residential and business mailboxes. Shapiro estimates that this gives the Post Office a $14 billion annual boost, more than three times what the Postal Regulatory Commission estimates it to be. Shapiro argues that the PRC’s analysis doesn’t take into account the productivity gains that the Post Office would be forced to make if it really had to compete for mailbox delivery. He points out that productivity at USPS has only grown by 0.7% per year versus 2.5% for its competition."


LOL

The USPS has not directly received taxpayer-dollars since the early 1980s with the exception of subsidies for costs associated with the disabled and overseas voters


United States Postal Service - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

USPS loses money each year (other than few years) . Somebody is subsidizing "it". The link showed.

THE USPS HASN'T GOTTEN GOV'T MONEY IN NEARLY 30 YEARS, If you understand HISTORY, the GOP passed a bill to prefund FIFTY YEARS of retirements in TEN years. Think they MIGHT lose money doing that?

Your link was nothing but ANOTHER right wing "think tank" BULLSHIT PREMISE based on guesses and myths....

the GOP passed a bill to prefund FIFTY YEARS of retirements in TEN years.
the democrats were right there with them passing that....2 of the 3 co-sponsors were dems....so dont try and put this just on the Republicans....

Weird, the Dems have ATTEMPTED to get it fixed, which side IS blocking it again?

Yes, 2 out of 4 sponsors were Dems

AND THEY SUPPORTED THIS TOO:

WASHINGTON, DC (September 13, 2011) - REP. DANNY K. DAVIS JOINS HR 2884 A SHORT-TERM MEASURE TO HELP POSTAL SERVICE WHILE CONGRESS DEVELOPS LONG-TERM PROPOSAL TO RETURN POSTAL SERVICE TO PROFITABILITY

Congressman Danny K. Davis : Statements : REP. DAVIS JOINS HOUSE DEMOCRATS IN MOVE TO GRANT POSTAL SERVICE TEMPORARY RELIEF

 

[Carla_Danger]

The federal government ain't a employment agency although most liberals think so. Government hiring does not grow the economy. It's a freaking drain especially when government drones enjoy every holiday no matter how obscure and about 60% could call in sick permanently and nobody in the private sector would notice.

Wrong... government employees spend a lot of money and that helps to stimulate the economy,
If their off time is as generous as yo u say (it really isn't) then that gives them more time to spend all that money and help the economy!

but what they spend does nothing to replenish the tax budget except draw from it. They replenish very little. Remember, the reason for the higher salaries is so they can pay their union off not to repay the bucket from whence the money came from.

What union are you talking about? Anything specific???....the police, teachers, or simply unions in general?

 

[Dad2three]

Apples-to-Oranges

But any compensation comparison between the average federal civilian employee and average private-sector employee oversimplifies the debate, glossing over the important differences in occupation, skill level, age, and education that determine salaries. The BEA has posted an FAQ on federal pay, providing a number of reasons why the average compensation for federal civilian employees is higher than the average compensation for private-sector employees:

• Federal civilian workers are more educated.
• The federal government has a higher proportion of white-collar jobs.
• “Lower-skilled (and lower-paid) positions have been contracted out to private industries” in recent years, raising the average pay of federal civilian employees.
• Federal civilian workers receive better pension and health insurance benefits on average than private-sector employees, some of whom receive no benefits.

Apples-to-Apples

...To determine the annual adjustment in locality pay, OPM produces a report every year that summarizes a comparison of federal pay — just salaries, not total compensation — with pay levels in non-federal "establishments" based on geographic location and job responsibilities. In the 2009 report, OPM found that federal workers were paid on average 22.13 percent less (Table 4) than their private-sector counterparts. The gap increased to 24 percent this year, the Washington Post recently reported.

Are Federal Workers Overpaid?

Be very careful. You are just taking pay into consideration. Federal employees have generous holiday pay, paid days off, vacation, sick leave, unbelievable job security, etc. You don't get all that in some private sector jobs. Taking that into consideration, federal employees have it very well.

You mean they haven't taken the hit like private sectors war on the workers the past 30+ years, to benefit a few "job creators" ? True

 

[Harry Dresden]

The federal government does not employ any janitors....they are contracted out to the lowest bidder

not so in the PO.....they hire many people with physical disabilities to do the janitorial work....

The United States Postal Service, also known as the Post Office, U.S. Mail, or Postal Service, often abbreviated as USPS, is an independent agency of the United States federal government responsible for providing postal service in the United States. It is one of the few government agencies explicitly authorized by the United States Constitution.


The USPS has not directly received taxpayer-dollars since the early 1980s with the exception of subsidies for costs associated with the disabled and overseas voters

United States Postal Service - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

uhmmmm.......they borrow huge amounts each year from FED to offset losses....do not pay fees like private......on and on it goes again. summed up in below link. quick easy scan read......
U.S. Post Office gets an $18 billion gift from taxpayers every year - Fortune

much of that is shit that has been debunked year after year like how we made more than other delivery people, they always seem to not mention that UPS drivers make more and also get pretty good benefits...and Fed-X people are right there too.....

not sure what that has to do with anything, do you know how many government jobs there are? I know I don't know how many, but services is mostly the business and referencing one like that's all there is very childish and liberalish.

your not sure?....i was answering the post i quoted....he mentioned wages....

 

[Harry Dresden]

uhmmmm.......they borrow huge amounts each year from FED to offset losses....do not pay fees like private......on and on it goes again. summed up in below link. quick easy scan read......
U.S. Post Office gets an $18 billion gift from taxpayers every year - Fortune

GET THE FUKKKK OFF RIGHT WING TALKING POINTS, GEEZUS FUKKN KRIST

YOUR LINK

"
Laws that bar any other shipping service from delivering mail and packages directly to residential and business mailboxes. Shapiro estimates that this gives the Post Office a $14 billion annual boost, more than three times what the Postal Regulatory Commission estimates it to be. Shapiro argues that the PRC’s analysis doesn’t take into account the productivity gains that the Post Office would be forced to make if it really had to compete for mailbox delivery. He points out that productivity at USPS has only grown by 0.7% per year versus 2.5% for its competition."


LOL

The USPS has not directly received taxpayer-dollars since the early 1980s with the exception of subsidies for costs associated with the disabled and overseas voters


United States Postal Service - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

USPS loses money each year (other than few years) . Somebody is subsidizing "it". The link showed.

THE USPS HASN'T GOTTEN GOV'T MONEY IN NEARLY 30 YEARS, If you understand HISTORY, the GOP passed a bill to prefund FIFTY YEARS of retirements in TEN years. Think they MIGHT lose money doing that?

Your link was nothing but ANOTHER right wing "think tank" BULLSHIT PREMISE based on guesses and myths....

the GOP passed a bill to prefund FIFTY YEARS of retirements in TEN years.
the democrats were right there with them passing that....2 of the 3 co-sponsors were dems....so dont try and put this just on the Republicans....

Weird, the Dems have ATTEMPTED to get it fixed, which side IS blocking it again?

Yes, 2 out of 4 sponsors were Dems

AND THEY SUPPORTED THIS TOO:

WASHINGTON, DC (September 13, 2011) - REP. DANNY K. DAVIS JOINS HR 2884 A SHORT-TERM MEASURE TO HELP POSTAL SERVICE WHILE CONGRESS DEVELOPS LONG-TERM PROPOSAL TO RETURN POSTAL SERVICE TO PROFITABILITY

Congressman Danny K. Davis : Statements : REP. DAVIS JOINS HOUSE DEMOCRATS IN MOVE TO GRANT POSTAL SERVICE TEMPORARY RELIEF

Weird, the Dems have ATTEMPTED to get it fixed, which side IS blocking it again?
they should have never backed it to begin with....
the NALC and the other Unions have more Republicans then you think on their side...usually in the monthly mag i get from the union they have a list of congress people who are trying to get this thing shot down....not all republicans are like Issa....

 

[leftwinger]

Just shows how ******* cheap the private sector is. They love their cheap labor and sending jobs over sea's.

At least the government gives a shit about people paying for things to survive.

Any money the GOVT has came from "us" or they printed it. Any dollar they take out of private sector (me) could have been used to grow the economy (not just pay people to provide some poorly ran service).

If I had that extra "$100K" or so maybe 2 employee at my new Noodle house! Are they so smart they can take it and hand it out to hand-picked relatives or friends to produce nothing? What doe the GOVT produce? Some but not as much as the private sector could. You can see it in $19T debt.

I am here in an apparently hopeless exercise to keep up the fight against this tyranny. I don't want to go thru another 2009-2010 with 25% foreclosure rates, most all wealth lost., unemployment etc.

I agree to pay them 10% flat rate. They have to make it work. Go back to 2007 spending levels. things were fine. No different at at $3.9T or whatever? Let us keep our EARNINGS!

 

[leftwinger]

The next regime has to come in and get spending near $3T but get revenue up close to $4T for 8 straight. That could save the country.

Other than that they will print print print...until your IRA/401K worthless. They even discussed "taking" IRA/401K and paying you a living pittance.

Can they still get anyone to loan to them? Greece, Puerto Rico, Detroit....lots of examples.

 

[boedicca]

If you went to work 2008-2012 you saw the parking lots empty out at Private corps. You saw the GOVT (fed and state) parking lots fill up more and more each year. When things go bad.....we suffer. They are golden. you cannot possibly argue that other than to say.......you need more services when citizens are in trouble?

Please......"it" is not efficient "enough", there is massive waste/duplication/fraud identified often. GOVT workers never get fired, layed off, pay reduced. Retire earlier with more..........on an on. Maybe some of it is not all bad......but please please, don't try to tell us how great "it" is. We are not stupid. We hear, see, we know some things too. Some of us even have inside information.

"If you went to work 2008-2012 you saw the parking lots empty out at Private corps"


RECORD CORP PROFIT? AND THEIR PARKING LOTS WERE EMPTY? Weird


"You saw the GOVT (fed and state) parking lots fill up more and more each year."

BZZ. WRONG


Obama government shrinking after period of rapid growth

• Apr 5, 2012

What do Republican presidents Reagan, Bush I, and Bush II have in common that Obama doesn't? Total government grew under those presidents after they faced recessions. By contrast, federal, state, and local government has declined by more than half a million workers in the last three years. Big government ain't what it used to be.

Government payrolls at nearly all levels also have been cut

The graph above comes courtesy of the Economic Policy Institute. Since the recession officially ended in January 2009, the economy has bid goodbye to 584,000 government jobs (private sector employment is up by 2.8 million). That's a roughly a 2 percent drop.


The Incredible Shrinking U.S. Government

How much of that drop is due to Obama gutting the military?

 

[Dad2three]

GET THE FUKKKK OFF RIGHT WING TALKING POINTS, GEEZUS FUKKN KRIST

YOUR LINK

"
Laws that bar any other shipping service from delivering mail and packages directly to residential and business mailboxes. Shapiro estimates that this gives the Post Office a $14 billion annual boost, more than three times what the Postal Regulatory Commission estimates it to be. Shapiro argues that the PRC’s analysis doesn’t take into account the productivity gains that the Post Office would be forced to make if it really had to compete for mailbox delivery. He points out that productivity at USPS has only grown by 0.7% per year versus 2.5% for its competition."


LOL

The USPS has not directly received taxpayer-dollars since the early 1980s with the exception of subsidies for costs associated with the disabled and overseas voters


United States Postal Service - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

USPS loses money each year (other than few years) . Somebody is subsidizing "it". The link showed.

THE USPS HASN'T GOTTEN GOV'T MONEY IN NEARLY 30 YEARS, If you understand HISTORY, the GOP passed a bill to prefund FIFTY YEARS of retirements in TEN years. Think they MIGHT lose money doing that?

Your link was nothing but ANOTHER right wing "think tank" BULLSHIT PREMISE based on guesses and myths....

the GOP passed a bill to prefund FIFTY YEARS of retirements in TEN years.
the democrats were right there with them passing that....2 of the 3 co-sponsors were dems....so dont try and put this just on the Republicans....

Weird, the Dems have ATTEMPTED to get it fixed, which side IS blocking it again?

Yes, 2 out of 4 sponsors were Dems

AND THEY SUPPORTED THIS TOO:

WASHINGTON, DC (September 13, 2011) - REP. DANNY K. DAVIS JOINS HR 2884 A SHORT-TERM MEASURE TO HELP POSTAL SERVICE WHILE CONGRESS DEVELOPS LONG-TERM PROPOSAL TO RETURN POSTAL SERVICE TO PROFITABILITY

Congressman Danny K. Davis : Statements : REP. DAVIS JOINS HOUSE DEMOCRATS IN MOVE TO GRANT POSTAL SERVICE TEMPORARY RELIEF

Weird, the Dems have ATTEMPTED to get it fixed, which side IS blocking it again?
they should have never backed it to begin with....
the NALC and the other Unions have more Republicans then you think on their side...usually in the monthly mag i get from the union they have a list of congress people who are trying to get this thing shot down....not all republicans are like Issa....

MOST are like Issa


LAMEDUCK CONGRESS, DEMS WERE SNOOKERED BY IT, IMO


H.R. 6407 (109th): Postal Accountability and Enhancement Act

2 days after it was introduced it was passed by both senate and house

Votes: Dec 8, 2006: This bill passed in the House of Representatives by voice vote.


Dec 9, 2006: This bill passed in the Senate by Unanimous Consent.



November 16, 2012
An Easy Task for Congress: Save the Post Office

A lame-duck Congress manufactured the current “postal crisis.” This lame-duck Congress could fix it.


An Easy Task for Congress: Save the Post Office



Republicans manufacture a crisis for the Postal Service, and too many Democrats go along


Hold one thought in your mind every time you read about the "crisis" the U.S. Postal Service is in: There is a crisis, but it's a manufactured one. If Congress wasn't busy applying the Shock Doctrine, the postal service would face a challenge, but one it had time to meet. Instead, we're being told by Congress and by high-level management at the post office that the crisis is now and that massive cuts are the only answer—that degrading the services the postal service offers will save it.

 

[Dad2three]

If you went to work 2008-2012 you saw the parking lots empty out at Private corps. You saw the GOVT (fed and state) parking lots fill up more and more each year. When things go bad.....we suffer. They are golden. you cannot possibly argue that other than to say.......you need more services when citizens are in trouble?

Please......"it" is not efficient "enough", there is massive waste/duplication/fraud identified often. GOVT workers never get fired, layed off, pay reduced. Retire earlier with more..........on an on. Maybe some of it is not all bad......but please please, don't try to tell us how great "it" is. We are not stupid. We hear, see, we know some things too. Some of us even have inside information.

"If you went to work 2008-2012 you saw the parking lots empty out at Private corps"


RECORD CORP PROFIT? AND THEIR PARKING LOTS WERE EMPTY? Weird


"You saw the GOVT (fed and state) parking lots fill up more and more each year."

BZZ. WRONG


Obama government shrinking after period of rapid growth

• Apr 5, 2012

What do Republican presidents Reagan, Bush I, and Bush II have in common that Obama doesn't? Total government grew under those presidents after they faced recessions. By contrast, federal, state, and local government has declined by more than half a million workers in the last three years. Big government ain't what it used to be.

Government payrolls at nearly all levels also have been cut

The graph above comes courtesy of the Economic Policy Institute. Since the recession officially ended in January 2009, the economy has bid goodbye to 584,000 government jobs (private sector employment is up by 2.8 million). That's a roughly a 2 percent drop.


The Incredible Shrinking U.S. Government

How much of that drop is due to Obama gutting the military?

LMAOROG. Source?

 

[Dad2three]

Just shows how ******* cheap the private sector is. They love their cheap labor and sending jobs over sea's.

At least the government gives a shit about people paying for things to survive.

Any money the GOVT has came from "us" or they printed it. Any dollar they take out of private sector (me) could have been used to grow the economy (not just pay people to provide some poorly ran service).

If I had that extra "$100K" or so maybe 2 employee at my new Noodle house! Are they so smart they can take it and hand it out to hand-picked relatives or friends to produce nothing? What doe the GOVT produce? Some but not as much as the private sector could. You can see it in $19T debt.

I am here in an apparently hopeless exercise to keep up the fight against this tyranny. I don't want to go thru another 2009-2010 with 25% foreclosure rates, most all wealth lost., unemployment etc.

I agree to pay them 10% flat rate. They have to make it work. Go back to 2007 spending levels. things were fine. No different at at $3.9T or whatever? Let us keep our EARNINGS!

TYPICAL TeaTard supporter who will NOT let reality into his world




We already know what economic policies work best for our country. Clinton knew that we had to cut spending and increase revenues. We had revenues of 20% of GDP and surpluses for 4 straight years (3 after Clinton vetoed the $700+ billion GOP tax cut).

Then something terrible happened, the Republicans gained complete control in 2001 and instead of sticking with what was working they decided that their ideology was more important, gutted revenues to LESS THAN 15% OF GDP, WHILE BLOWING UP SPENDING TO 25% OF GDP. The debt has gone up $12 trillion since then.



Do you remember 2001 when we had a budget surplus. Alan Greenspan testified before Congress in favor of the Bush tax cuts,"we are in danger of paying down the debt too fast". How absurd is that statement today! BTW, not a single GOP senator voted for the 93 reconciliation act that led to the balanced budget and eventual surplus.

The Republicans would not pay down the debt when times were much better. Now they want to focus on deficits.

 

[leftwinger]

We already been over this, agreed 10 years ago things were going along pretty good until Federal meddling policies crashed housing?

RINO=DemWit=at fault. there, we agree.

I can't agree more GOVT spending/debt will get USA out of debt.