General Patton Controversy

[emptystep]

Great posts here. Having read a biography of Patton several years ago I read the thread. Of note Patton was ready to come from the south into Berlin and thought D-day extended the war and needlessly cost thousands of lives but it was done to give the English the glory of the day. Patton had a real issue with authority.

I do remember the slapping incidents from the book but I thought that it was someone else who did that. I looked it up and found this The 93rd Evacuation Hospital - Patton & The Slapping Incidents ! I don't think this biographer is very good.

 

[rightwinger]

Patton had minimal political clout. If he had lived, he would have been another Joe McArthy

Hardly worth assassinating

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Patton thought Bradley lost his nerve when he refused to close the Falaise Pocket. Imagine a Stalingrad in the West

 

[emptystep]

Patton had minimal political clout. If he had lived, he would have been another Joe McArthy

Hardly worth assassinating

Would have made Hell a lot better president than Ike, although still not a good one.

 

[rightwinger]

Patton had minimal political clout. If he had lived, he would have been another Joe McArthy

Hardly worth assassinating

Would have made Hell a lot better president than Ike, although still not a good one.

Ike was a great president

pat ton had no concept of the geopolitical realities of the time. pat ton was a great tactical general but a moron when it came to politics

 

[emptystep]

Patton had minimal political clout. If he had lived, he would have been another Joe McArthy

Hardly worth assassinating

Would have made Hell a lot better president than Ike, although still not a good one.

Ike was a great president

pat ton had no concept of the geopolitical realities of the time. pat ton was a great tactical general but a moron when it came to politics

OK, Patton would have been a God awful president. While I agree with some of the policies of Ike I believe he started a chain of world policy "realities" that were seriously flawed and have caused incalculable damage ever since.

 

[rightwinger]

Would have made Hell a lot better president than Ike, although still not a good one.

Ike was a great president

pat ton had no concept of the geopolitical realities of the time. pat ton was a great tactical general but a moron when it came to politics

OK, Patton would have been a God awful president. While I agree with some of the policies of Ike I believe he started a chain of world policy "realities" that were seriously flawed and have caused incalculable damage ever since.

Ike was caught up in the post WWII cold war. His foreign policy choices were limited

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Patton had no interest in running for President but correctly predicted that Ike would.

You "experts" on Patton might want to pick up a biography.

 

[emptystep]

Ike was a great president

pat ton had no concept of the geopolitical realities of the time. pat ton was a great tactical general but a moron when it came to politics

OK, Patton would have been a God awful president. While I agree with some of the policies of Ike I believe he started a chain of world policy "realities" that were seriously flawed and have caused incalculable damage ever since.

Ike was caught up in the post WWII cold war. His foreign policy choices were limited

I would argue that he 'started' the cold war. Not some much that it was not going to happen but he set the 'strategy of it' up until the fall of the Berlin wall. I think things could have been very different had some one else been in his shoes at that time, Obama for instance.

 

[Flanders]

JoeB131;6394202

Actually, both McArthur and Eisenhower thought using the nuclear bomb against Japan was a horrible idea.

To JoeB131: What’s your point? Are you trying to say Truman should not have used the bomb to end the war?

JoeB131;6394202

Okay, i know you guys really need to believe this propaganda, but the Soviets had beenworking on their own bomb long before the Rosenburgs, and capturing thousands of German scientists probably helped quite a bit, too.

To JoeB131: In late July 1945 the Soviets had no idea there was such a thing as an Atomic Bomb. They only learned when President Truman casually told Stalin that America had one. The help American traitors gave to the Soviets speeded up their bomb by at least ten years; some experts say as much as 25 years.

JoeB131;6394202

Actually Stalin already had what he wanted... why would he go to war. He had Eastern Europe, he had a foohold in Asia.

To JoeB131: If that was true there would not have been a Cold War.

JoeB131;6394202

The problem is, you suffer under the delusion that the Soviets really wanted world domination.

To JoeB131: Worldwide communism was Stalin’s goal. It remains the goal of every Communist just as a worldwide caliphate is Islam’s goal. Totalitarian ideologies all have worldwide domination in common.

Incidentally, following your interpretation of communism to its conclusion Muslims already have everything they want. I’m sure you believe that, too.

JoeB131;6394202

What they really wanted was assurances they wouldn't be attacked again, having been invaded twice in the previous 50 years with devastating consequences.

To JoeB131: What they wanted even more was no opposition to communist expansion.

JoeB131;6394202

Except France was broken. Italy was broken. Germany was broken. Franco's Spain was still recovering from their civil war. The British empire was in ruins and would collapse completely within 15 years.

To JoeB131: Under American supervision their military structures would have quickly adapted to defeat communism.

JoeB131;6394202

Again- Japan- Broken country.

To JoeB131: Japan would have been the easiest conversion of all because it was a militaristic country to begin with.

JoeB131;6394202

I mean, seriously, do you believe the shit you type?

To JoeB131: Let’s let the folks who might be following this thread decide for themselves which one of us is typing excrement.

JoeB131;6394202

Niether of which involved the Soviets, and both of which we hardly won decisively.

To JoeB131: What were those Soviet Migs doing shooting at American fighters? Practicing non-involvement!

JoeB131;6394202

In Korea, it dragged into a stalemate with China, and we had to negotiate a cease-fire.

To JoeB131: There would have been no stalemate if Truman let General MacArthur cross the Yalu.

The truce in Korea had more to do with what the United Nations wanted than it had to do with anything else. Korea was the first application of Woodrow Wilson’s Peace Without Victory war policy. America is still fighting Peace Without Victory wars.

JoeB131;6394202

In Vietnam, we had to retreat, eventually. You are not making strong arguments here.

To JoeB131: There’s that “we” again. Why do Lefties always use it? In your case it’s more ridiculous than usual. Don’t you realize when you say we you are saying “We, meaning Communists, had to retreat from Communists.”

You are the last person that should use “we” because the American military never lost a battle in Vietnam. The only retreat was the American Left bringing political and military defeat to their own country in order to save communism in Vietnam.

I do remember the slapping incidents from the book but I thought that it was someone else who did that. I looked it up and found this The 93rd Evacuation Hospital - Patton & The Slapping Incidents ! I don't think this biographer is very good.

To emptystep: Did you read the excerpts from The Unknown Patton I included in the OP?

pat ton was a great tactical general but a moron when it came to politics

To rightwinger: Nobody who understood communism so well before the Cold War got underway could have been a moron.

I will agree that he never recognized the traitors who were already infiltrating the Army and the highest levels government. I’d call that blind spot naïvté rather than moronic.

 

[emptystep]

Flanders, responses with going crazy with the quote tag.

I did not read the excerpt beyond the first one because I found the author sloppy with their research.

"The wartime application of fission was the atomic bomb, a fearsome weapon that German scientists, by the late 1930s, understood was not only theoretically possible but perhaps technologically feasible to construct. Dozens of émigré scientists—many of them, like Einstein, Jewish refugees from Hitler—arrived in America in the 1930s and '40s fearing that Nazi researchers could help the führer conquer the globe by developing the world's first atomic super-weapon. " Albert Einstein: The Atomic Bomb I don't think Stalin was the least bit surprised by Truman's statement. We are not so smart as we presume.

Worldwide communism was Stalin’s goal as is worldwide democracy is ours. Not that I believe that democracy is not beyond comparison superior but to say they are inherently more aggressive for their stance I don't think is substantiated.

I am not taking side on who is typing more excrement. I am just wearing rain boots and carrying an umbrella, as one should do on any thread on the USMB.

 

[Flanders]

Flanders, responses with going crazy with the quote tag.

Worldwide communism was Stalin’s goal as is worldwide democracy is ours. Not that I believe that democracy is not beyond comparison superior but to say they are inherently more aggressive for their stance I don't think is substantiated.

To emptystep: My friends like my format. Those who find it too much to handle should not read my messages.

Democracy is the goal of the Socialists; i.e., Democrats and the global government crowd. A world full of sovereign ——limited —— governments is the goal for freedom-loving Americans.

Bottom line: No American should fight and die for democracy in foreign lands anymore than they should fight and die for communism and global government.

 

[JoeB131]

[

We should have dropped one of those "Big whoop" bombs on Third Shock Army

Once again, you forget that the Pacific is an Ocean and those tough Rooskies you admire and love had no way of crossing it

Again- they didn't need to, they already had what they wanted.

 

[JoeB131]

I'm really going to try to treat you like you aren't some kind of high function retard, Flanders, but you make it difficult.

[

To JoeB131: What’s your point? Are you trying to say Truman should not have used the bomb to end the war?

Yes, that is EXACTLY what I am saying. The Japanese were already ready to surrender, they just wanted assurances from us that the Emperor would still be Emperor. We demanded "unconditional surrender" and dropped bombs. And then the USSR got into it, and Lo and Behold, we were suddenly totally cool with Hirohito staying in power, even though he was as guilty as the rest of them.

To JoeB131: Worldwide communism was Stalin’s goal. It remains the goal of every Communist just as a worldwide caliphate is Islam’s goal. Totalitarian ideologies all have worldwide domination in common.

Incidentally, following your interpretation of communism to its conclusion Muslims already have everything they want. I’m sure you believe that, too.

Our problem with Muslims are that we keep sticking our dicks in their hornet's nest and wondering why we get stung. Not that you are rushing out to enlist or anything.

To JoeB131: Japan would have been the easiest conversion of all because it was a militaristic country to begin with.

No, it took a DECADE for Japan to rebuild, with huge infusions of American cash.



To JoeB131: What were those Soviet Migs doing shooting at American fighters? Practicing non-involvement!

Actually, those Migs had Chinese and Korean pilots... Next fallacy.

To JoeB131: There would have been no stalemate if Truman let General MacArthur cross the Yalu.

The truce in Korea had more to do with what the United Nations wanted than it had to do with anything else. Korea was the first application of Woodrow Wilson’s Peace Without Victory war policy. America is still fighting Peace Without Victory wars.

No, then we would have had WWIII and we'd have all fucking died. Dumbass.

To JoeB131: There’s that “we” again. Why do Lefties always use it? In your case it’s more ridiculous than usual. Don’t you realize when you say we you are saying “We, meaning Communists, had to retreat from Communists.”

You are the last person that should use “we” because the American military never lost a battle in Vietnam. The only retreat was the American Left bringing political and military defeat to their own country in order to save communism in Vietnam.

Guy, I served in the US Army for 11 years. I honestly doubt you ever did, Internet Tough Guy.

Vietnam, however was beyond stupid as a war. A country with NO strategic value, that we got involved in a war that we couldn't possibly win, because no one wanted to be the one who "lost" it.

 

[JoeB131]

Flanders, responses with going crazy with the quote tag.

Worldwide communism was Stalin’s goal as is worldwide democracy is ours. Not that I believe that democracy is not beyond comparison superior but to say they are inherently more aggressive for their stance I don't think is substantiated.

To emptystep: My friends like my format. Those who find it too much to handle should not read my messages.

Democracy is the goal of the Socialists; i.e., Democrats and the global government crowd. A world full of sovereign ——limited —— governments is the goal for freedom-loving Americans.

Bottom line: No American should fight and die for democracy in foreign lands anymore than they should fight and die for communism and global government.

Who are you kidding. YOu don't have any friends.

USMB has a lot of functionality- Use it.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Patton was not assassinated. Medical care was, perhaps, incompetent, nothing more and nothing deliberate.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

It's amazing how the democrats here love Stalin but hate Putin

 

[rightwinger]

Amazing how Republicans worship Putin

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Amazing how Republicans worship Putin

He's one of only 2 current world leaders all in on defending his nation's sovereignty