Gabby Giffords, pushing law that her attacker obeyed before shooting her...

[martybegan]

The concept of masculinity does not include gunning down innocent people.

No it doesn't but it does include the use of assertive force -- which is for one thing, why we have sports.
It's the perversion of that assertive force that ends in gunning down innocent people. That is, once we've also established that "gunning down things" is a cool thing to do. And we already do that through TV shows, video games, Hallowe'en costumes, even everyday linguistic idioms like "shoot from the hip" and "let's call in our big guns" and "shot down an idea". All of that requires a callous disregard for the Life Force of one's target.

And that starts at the tree stump. If it's OK to do that to a tree stump, then it's OK to do it to a deer. If it's OK for a deer, then it's OK for a bird. If it's OK for a bird then it's OK for a "bad guy" because he's an "other". If it's OK for a "bad guy" then it's OK for a "might be a bad guy". Etc etc. It has no end. But it does have a beginning, and that's what I'm focused on.

Considering that most of the guys doing these mass shootings are textbook "Betas", maybe its the feminizing of men that is the issue. Considering we didn't have shootings like this even when the guns were available decades ago, and the current war to make boys behave more like girls, I would blame that way before blaming masculinity.

Although I wouldn't articulate it quite this way as it tries to fly without context, we may be in some agreement here.

You are correct that we didn't have shootings like this in the past to this degree. Something has changed, or I would say, degraded. And that's what I've got in my crosshairs. See? There's yet another one.

And maybe its a biological reason why it is mostly guys doing this. Serial killers who never even use a gun are grossly over-represented by males.

Completely agree. Again, perverted assertive force.... or, I would postulate, suppression thereof.

Try using education to prevent a serial killer from forming and see how it goes.

That's what I've been advocating here. The whole time I've been here.
I don't get a lot of takers but that's how it is breaking through to tell an entire population that what they've been obsessed with all their life is wrong. I understand that. It's not an easy thing. So I keep at it.

And yes, making a Stump go boom IS fun, its just like fireworks are fun.

Fireworks don't destroy anything. There's the rub.


Perhaps a modicum of musing on the appeal of "destruction" is in order here.

I do enjoy, say, a good demolition derby (do they still do that?). That's certainly destruction, in fact it's whole point is destruction.

What's the difference?

Demolition derbies involve cars. Cars are not and never were living things. They're instruments we put together.

A bomb or a bullet isn't a living thing either. That's another instrument we put together. The destruction of the bomb or bullet isn't the issue... it's what the bomb or bullet takes with it. Once you've accepted the idea that it's OK for a bomb or bullet to take a living thing with it ------------------- you've crossed a threshold.

Um, a tree stump already lost it's life force, i.e. the rest of the tree. And there is nothing wrong with hunting. Are you trying to imply legal hunting is a gateway to wholesale murder?

That's as dumb as the whole "Pot always leads to harder drug use" Saturday morning special mentality.

Serial killers are serial killers, some people are just hardwired to be bad. Attacking how the rest of us live because of a few outliers is baby/bathwater thinking.

And unless you plan on eating rocks and dirt, you are already killing living things to survive.

 

[Pogo]

Um, a tree stump already lost it's life force, i.e. the rest of the tree.

I've got tree stumps here --- lots of them --- that have already sprouted up with new life. It requires a certain arrogance to declare what's living and what's dead. That's beyond our pay grade. But again once you cross that threshold, the next one is to declare what deserves to live and what deserves to die. I don't have to spell out where that leads.

And there is nothing wrong with hunting. Are you trying to imply legal hunting is a gateway to wholesale murder?

No, and again you're leaving out context. Hunting is done for different reasons, some of which is simple survival. But in other instances it's because "blowing up tree stumps is cool". I make a distinction.

That's as dumb as the whole "Pot always leads to harder drug use" Saturday morning special mentality.

It would be but it's not my argument.

Serial killers are serial killers, some people are just hardwired to be bad.

Can't agree. EVERYTHING has a causation. To throw up one's hands and go "oh well some people are going to do X regardless" is a complete cop-out. It's running away.

Attacking how the rest of us live because of a few outliers is baby/bathwater thinking.

It might be but again it's not my argument at all. Not even close.


Maybe I can sum it up thusly:
A gun is simply an instrument, just as a bomb or a car or a firework is an instrument. Instruments don't destroy anything on thier own.

I'm not interested in the instrumental, nor do I think that approach is productive. I'm interested in the spiritual.

 

[OldLady]

If you're a grown adult and believe "blowing shit up is fun", then you're already in a hole and still diggin'

No, seriously though, blowing shit up IS fun.

Today, I might actually agree.

 

[jillian]

gun control twits would be funny if they weren't trying to disarm law abiding Americans......Gabby Giffords is working to pass a background check law...that the man who shot her obeyed before he shot her............the guy passed the very background check she now wants to push for private sales.......so this new law she wants...would not have stopped her shooter.....

Anti gun-nuts are not rational human beings.....

Gabby Giffords in NV Campaigning for Same Background Check Her Attacker Passed - Breitbart

Again — and this cannot be stressed enough — Giffords is fighting to force more people to pass the very check her attacker passed for his handgun. And she is doing it under the guise of “stopping gun violence.” But how can it stop gun violence when nearly every mass public attacker of recent memory passed a background check for his or her guns?

A short list of attackers and alleged attackers who acquired their guns via background checks includes:

• the New York City bombing suspect (September 19)
• the Orlando Pulse attacker (June 12)
• the UCLA gunman (June 1)
• the San Bernardino attackers (December 2, 2015)
• the Colorado Springs attacker (October 31, 2015)
• the Umpqua Community College attacker (October 1, 2015)
• Alison Parker’s attacker (August 26, 2015)
• the Lafayette movie theater attacker (July 23, 2015)
• the Chattanooga attacker (July 16, 2015)
• the alleged Emanuel African Methodist Episcopal attacker (Jun 17, 2015)
• the Muhammad Carton Contest attackers (May 3, 2014)
• the Las Vegas cop killers (June 9, 2015)
• the Santa Barbara attacker (May 23, 2014)
• the Fort Hood attacker (April 2, 2014)
• the Arapahoe High School attacker (December 13, 2013)
• the D.C. Navy Yard attacker (September 16, 2013)
• the Aurora movie theater attacker (July 20, 2012)
• Gabby Giffords’s attacker (January 8, 2011)
• the Fort Hood attacker (November 5, 2009)
• the Virginia Tech attacker (April 16, 2007), and many others.

How can anyone who reads that list fail to realize that background checks do not stop latent criminals? A man with criminal intent but no criminal or mental health record will pass background checks all day long, acquire the guns he needs, then kill innocents. At the same time, the new gun controls contained in Question 1 will make the gun-purchasing process more tedious and cumbersome for law-abiding citizens.

if the law existed, she wouldn't be trying to get it passed.

please read heller...your protestations and whining about the slightest regulation wears thin

 

[OldLady]

This is a fair point, and it's one I've been making since the day I joined this site --- the remedy to gun slaughter doesn't lie in the laws, it lies in the culture. What we need to stamp out is not this gun or that user --- it's the whole attitude that shooting things is somehow "cool" .... the gun fetish mentality. That's what needs to go, yesterday.

Shooting things is somehow cool. Maybe you've never tried it, but when you're pelting targets 1000 meters away with a belt fed M-60, it is straight awesome! Freedom doesn't run in your veins, but it runs in mine.

That's not "freedom"---- that's "wanton destruction".

Again --- we as a culture have to grow the hell up. This ain't childhood any more.

No....a certain, tiny portion of our culture needs to grow up...which is hard to do when they have been raised, generation after generation by single, teenage mothers...with no fathers, and no adult role models to teach adult maturity....and emotional control.

Ummmmmmmmmmmmmmm..... I think gun slaughter has been around a teensy-weensy bit longer than a certain, tiny portion of our culture that needs to grow up...which is hard to do when they have been raised, generation after generation by single, teenage mothers...with no fathers, and no adult role models to teach adult maturity....and emotional control.

But yes, there is a portion, and it's in no way "tiny", of our culture that needs to grow up and has no maturity or emotional control. One of their kind is even running for President -- TODAY.

No....you missed it.........the current problem with murder in the United States is confined to our inner cities...to criminals with long criminal histories....it isn't normal, law abiding gun owners who own and carry guns for self defense, sport, and collecting...so you are wrong......our criminal culture is violent and murderous...they will kill over facebook insults...and it has nothing to do with guns..it has everything to do with teenage mothers raising children who raise children decade after decade.....and no one teaching these children how to be mature adults...the rest of the gun owning culture...perfectly fine....

You're missing a lot of the news, 2AGuy. Stop blaming the African American community for the gun disease in this country.

 

[2aguy]

Shooting things is somehow cool. Maybe you've never tried it, but when you're pelting targets 1000 meters away with a belt fed M-60, it is straight awesome! Freedom doesn't run in your veins, but it runs in mine.

That's not "freedom"---- that's "wanton destruction".

Again --- we as a culture have to grow the hell up. This ain't childhood any more.

No....a certain, tiny portion of our culture needs to grow up...which is hard to do when they have been raised, generation after generation by single, teenage mothers...with no fathers, and no adult role models to teach adult maturity....and emotional control.

Ummmmmmmmmmmmmmm..... I think gun slaughter has been around a teensy-weensy bit longer than a certain, tiny portion of our culture that needs to grow up...which is hard to do when they have been raised, generation after generation by single, teenage mothers...with no fathers, and no adult role models to teach adult maturity....and emotional control.

But yes, there is a portion, and it's in no way "tiny", of our culture that needs to grow up and has no maturity or emotional control. One of their kind is even running for President -- TODAY.

No....you missed it.........the current problem with murder in the United States is confined to our inner cities...to criminals with long criminal histories....it isn't normal, law abiding gun owners who own and carry guns for self defense, sport, and collecting...so you are wrong......our criminal culture is violent and murderous...they will kill over facebook insults...and it has nothing to do with guns..it has everything to do with teenage mothers raising children who raise children decade after decade.....and no one teaching these children how to be mature adults...the rest of the gun owning culture...perfectly fine....

You're missing a lot of the news, 2AGuy. Stop blaming the African American community for the gun disease in this country.

There is no gun disease......we have a criminal problem, especially in the inner city and that tends to be concentrated in minority, democrat voting, neighborhoods........the rest of the country uses guns for all manner of purposes but they don't use them to commit murder........we need to focus on murderers, not guns.

 

[2aguy]

gun control twits would be funny if they weren't trying to disarm law abiding Americans......Gabby Giffords is working to pass a background check law...that the man who shot her obeyed before he shot her............the guy passed the very background check she now wants to push for private sales.......so this new law she wants...would not have stopped her shooter.....

Anti gun-nuts are not rational human beings.....

Gabby Giffords in NV Campaigning for Same Background Check Her Attacker Passed - Breitbart

Again — and this cannot be stressed enough — Giffords is fighting to force more people to pass the very check her attacker passed for his handgun. And she is doing it under the guise of “stopping gun violence.” But how can it stop gun violence when nearly every mass public attacker of recent memory passed a background check for his or her guns?

A short list of attackers and alleged attackers who acquired their guns via background checks includes:

• the New York City bombing suspect (September 19)
• the Orlando Pulse attacker (June 12)
• the UCLA gunman (June 1)
• the San Bernardino attackers (December 2, 2015)
• the Colorado Springs attacker (October 31, 2015)
• the Umpqua Community College attacker (October 1, 2015)
• Alison Parker’s attacker (August 26, 2015)
• the Lafayette movie theater attacker (July 23, 2015)
• the Chattanooga attacker (July 16, 2015)
• the alleged Emanuel African Methodist Episcopal attacker (Jun 17, 2015)
• the Muhammad Carton Contest attackers (May 3, 2014)
• the Las Vegas cop killers (June 9, 2015)
• the Santa Barbara attacker (May 23, 2014)
• the Fort Hood attacker (April 2, 2014)
• the Arapahoe High School attacker (December 13, 2013)
• the D.C. Navy Yard attacker (September 16, 2013)
• the Aurora movie theater attacker (July 20, 2012)
• Gabby Giffords’s attacker (January 8, 2011)
• the Fort Hood attacker (November 5, 2009)
• the Virginia Tech attacker (April 16, 2007), and many others.

How can anyone who reads that list fail to realize that background checks do not stop latent criminals? A man with criminal intent but no criminal or mental health record will pass background checks all day long, acquire the guns he needs, then kill innocents. At the same time, the new gun controls contained in Question 1 will make the gun-purchasing process more tedious and cumbersome for law-abiding citizens.

if the law existed, she wouldn't be trying to get it passed.

please read heller...your protestations and whining about the slightest regulation wears thin

You don't understand......her attacker would be able to pass the new background check she is trying to get put into law.....

Let me repeat that since you are a left wing totalitarian....

She is trying to get a law put into place that her attacker would have successfully passed when he bought his gun.......

That means it is pointless....