Four hours of OT for a five-minute call: Crown attorneys told to stop calling Toronto police officers to help curb overtime ‘insanity’

shockedcanadian

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This is why Canada continues to fail and will be bankrupt soon. $500 For a 5 minute call. You think America has it bad with boondoggles?

If Trumps tariff kick in, it's over in Ontario and the powers that be know it. The Security Industrial Complex from the creepy TPS to Peel Region Police and the OPP, the S.I.C have decimated the province already and a tariff would speed up the collapse.

Toronto is the same place that didn't place a charge on the former mayor who was videotaped smoking crack. Would they do the same to a poor kid in Toronto? Hell no.

Rules for thee, not for me indeed.


Crown attorneys have been told to help rein in skyrocketing overtime inside the Toronto Police Service by limiting their contact with officers at a time when criminal cases are at risk of being tossed due to the slow disclosure of evidence, according to emails obtained by the Star.

In an email sent to colleagues last month, the director of the Ministry of the Attorney General’s guns and gangs unit warned that Toronto police are in a “budget crunch,” and that one “pressing concern” is the practice that lets officers bill three to four hours of overtime for having to work when not on shift, such as taking a call from a Crown attorney — no matter the length of the call.

The cost to police for “enhanced overtime” — what the service calls premium pay for callbacks — has almost tripled, Fred Braley told his colleagues.

“Therefore, after-hours calls to officers or requests for them to assist on their days off have to be significantly reduced,” he wrote on Nov. 5.
“Many officers accept such calls without charge, but based on the huge amount spent so far this year, many do not.”
The instructions have provoked anger from all sides.
The head of the Ontario Crown Attorneys’ Association emphasized that her members should be able to contact police when the need arises to keep cases running smoothly, and not be faced with yet another obstacle to do their jobs; defence lawyers criticized the overtime provisions as “absurd” and “outrageous.”
Meanwhile, the president of the Toronto Police Association blasted the police service for “attempting to circumvent” officers’ collective agreement by asking over-worked Crown attorneys to add “babysitting” to their already busy schedules. (It is relatively common for collective agreements to have clauses mandating a minimum amount of overtime for off-duty callbacks — at least on paper.)
The directive comes at a time when Crowns are already struggling to get police to respond promptly to their requests to hand over key pieces of evidence in criminal cases, according to other emails. And slow disclosure by police has led to serious criminal cases being thrown out by the courts for delay.

Crown attorneys are now “requested” to email or text the officer first to confirm that they are on shift before calling them, Braley explained.


“I know that some officers tell you to ‘call me anytime,’ but you must resist the urge to do so unless it is urgent or you know that they are on shift.”

In a separate email obtained by the Star, a senior Crown told assistant Crown attorneys: “It is outrageous that an officer would pick up a brief phone call from a Crown when they are not on shift and then draw three or four hours of pay as a result. Please do your part to prevent this behaviour.”

Should a Crown still need to call an officer outside of their usual shift and the officer wishes to claim premium pay, they will now need to fill out a form first with the name of the prosecutor.

‘That’s insanity’​

“Imagine a client’s reaction if I billed four hours for a 10-minute phone call? That’s insanity,” said defence lawyer Alison Craig. “I’m outraged as a taxpayer.”
 
In my union (UWUA), if I am forced to stay past my normal end of shift or if I am required to do any work off-hours I get a three hour minimum.

Working outside of one’s normal schedule needs to be compensated for; and forcing an employer to pay for more than the actual time worked is a good way to keep the employer from contacting you off-hours.
 
In my union (UWUA), if I am forced to stay past my normal end of shift or if I am required to do any work off-hours I get a three hour minimum.

Working outside of one’s normal schedule needs to be compensated for; and forcing an employer to pay for more than the actual time worked is a good way to keep the employer from contacting you off-hours.
No, it's a good way for police to slow walk files and omit details so that the Crown has to call them in these off hours.

It's a massive racket which is why many people are walking because of lengthy delays, and, police funding has ballooned out of control.

Even lawyers don't charge what they are charging.
 
No, it's a good way for police to slow walk files and omit details so that the Crown has to call them in these off hours.

It's a massive racket which is why many people are walking because of lengthy delays, and, police funding has ballooned out of control.
Then the problem is the Police Departments not getting a full shift of work out of the officers; and that’s where the fix needs to be implemented.

I don’t get OT if I’m not keeping up with my work. If I don’t have my work done by the end of the week it’s sitting there waiting for me on Monday morning along with a note from my boss reminding me that my work needs to be done in a timely and efficient manner or I may end up being disciplined. Sounds to me like these cops need to be held to the expectations; or maybe there aren’t enough officers to keep up with the workload.
 
Then the problem is the Police Departments not getting a full shift of work out of the officers; and that’s where the fix needs to be implemented.

I don’t get OT if I’m not keeping up with my work. If I don’t have my work done by the end of the week it’s sitting there waiting for me on Monday morning along with a note from my boss reminding me that my work needs to be done in a timely and efficient manner or I may end up being disciplined. Sounds to me like these cops need to be held to the expectations; or maybe there aren’t enough officers to keep up with the workload.
There are MASSIVE numbers of cops in Ontario alone.

During covid, 1500 Toronto Police didn;t show up for work because they didnt have masks. The mayor said "dont worry everyone, I am told by the TPS that there aren't any increases of danger to public safety".

1500 cops don't show up and it wont impact anything? Then why in the F don't they fire 1500 cops that aren't needed?!

We are not your ally. Trumps tariffs will expose this with great expedience, you will see.
 
We are not your ally. Trumps tariffs will expose this with great expedience, you will see.
America doesn’t have Allie’s, and we don’t need them. We could conquer your silly little country in a Tuesday afternoon and be back home for dinner.

However, to the point of this thread… if your prosecutors are contacting LEOs outside their normal hours, the officers damn well ought to be compensated. If it’s an issue, then ensure they’re doing their jobs during their regular shifts. Very simple.
 
America doesn’t have Allie’s, and we don’t need them. We could conquer your silly little country in a Tuesday afternoon and be back home for dinner.

However, to the point of this thread… if your prosecutors are contacting LEOs outside their normal hours, the officers damn well ought to be compensated. If it’s an issue, then ensure they’re doing their jobs during their regular shifts. Very simple.

You miss the point.

Perhaps you are a Canadian and don't know it.
 
You miss the point.

Perhaps you are a Canadian and don't know it.
I’ve spent a small handful of hours in your country, at its one significant tourist attraction, when I was 12. I’ve never found another reason to go back; so I doubt much of your society was able to infect me in the time I was there.

The point is… don’t call the officers if you don’t want to pay them. If they’re not getting their work done during their shifts, that’s a supervisory problem, not an OT issue.
 
I’ve spent a small handful of hours in your country, at its one significant tourist attraction, when I was 12. I’ve never found another reason to go back; so I doubt much of your society was able to infect me in the time I was there.

The point is… don’t call the officers if you don’t want to pay them. If they’re not getting their work done during their shifts, that’s a supervisory problem, not an OT issue.
No. They purposely delay and withhold information. The police leave the Crown their phone number "call me on my cell anytime". The Crown wants the police to help them make their case and vice versa. They know how much the cop will be paid if he calls him 30 minutes after his shift and speaks to him for 5 minutes to "email me _ or __".

On top of the police purposely keeping the case rolling for as long as they can so they can enjoy as many such calls as possible. We have more people making $100k a year as cops than in any other occupation in Ontario.

Go ahead and copy our system. Kiss your Constitution goodbye if you do.
 
No. They purposely delay and withhold information. The police leave the Crown their phone number "call me on my cell anytime". The Crown wants the police to help them make their case and vice versa. They know how much the cop will be paid if he calls him 30 minutes after his shift and speaks to him for 5 minutes to "email me _ or __".

On top of the police purposely keeping the case rolling for as long as they can so they can enjoy as many such calls as possible. We have more people making $100k a year as cops than in any other occupation in Ontario.

Go ahead and copy our system. Kiss your Constitution goodbye if you do.
That sounds like you have a problem with the police departments which needs to be addressed at that level. I’ve lived in two different places where the police departments have been completely torn down, decertified and then had to be reconstructed from scratch due to problems. It sounds like that’s what Ontario needs to do.

I have no interest in copying Canada’s system for anything. I don’t even want the current US Legal System. The US system is far too forgiving, with too many loopholes and thus ridiculous idea of “innocent until proven guilty.”
 
That sounds like you have a problem with the police departments which needs to be addressed at that level. I’ve lived in two different places where the police departments have been completely torn down, decertified and then had to be reconstructed from scratch due to problems. It sounds like that’s what Ontario needs to do.

I have no interest in copying Canada’s system for anything. I don’t even want the current US Legal System. The US system is far too forgiving, with too many loopholes and thus ridiculous idea of “innocent until proven guilty.”
A tariff by Trump might solve a great deal but I presume he is bluffing.
 
No, it's a good way for police to slow walk files and omit details so that the Crown has to call them in these off hours.

It's a massive racket which is why many people are walking because of lengthy delays, and, police funding has ballooned out of control.

Even lawyers don't charge what they are charging.

Minimum overtime. You call me on my day off, you pay.

Your deranged obsession against the government and Canadian police forces is laughable. I’ve known of no one in my entire life, including lifelong career criminals, who has the ongoing difficulties and police harassment you claim.

But I note that you when you ranted about Rogers messing with your WIFI when you didn’t call them, (evil police state watching you), you claimed you lived near Ottawa. Now you claim you live in Peel Region for years.

For those reading, Rogers had a massive network outage which shut down the entire Canadian banking system and completed a billion dollar upgrading to ALL of their networks as a result. Nobody was “messing” with this paranoid fool’s WIFI.
 
Minimum overtime. You call me on my day off, you pay.

Your deranged obsession against the government and Canadian police forces is laughable. I’ve known of no one in my entire life, including lifelong career criminals, who has the ongoing difficulties and police harassment you claim.

But I note that you when you ranted about Rogers messing with your WIFI when you didn’t call them, (evil police state watching you), you claimed you lived near Ottawa. Now you claim you live in Peel Region for years.

For those reading, Rogers had a massive network outage which shut down the entire Canadian banking system and completed a billion dollar upgrading to ALL of their networks as a result. Nobody was “messing” with this paranoid fool’s WIFI.
Ive claimed no such thing. Your own lies expose you, a sin in G-ds eyes. Remember, I warned Ontario for 15 years that there would be ecoomic costs for destroying citizens rights. Ford understands this concern now I'm sure. Too late it seems.
 
Ive claimed no such thing. Your own lies expose you, a sin in G-ds eyes. Remember, I warned Ontario for 15 years that there would be ecoomic costs for destroying citizens rights. Ford understands this concern now I'm sure. Too late it seems.

You’ve been posting this bullshit for years but anyone can expose your lying ass easily. I’ve done it many times.

I living in Ontario all except the the first 6 months of my life. I worked in banking and law for 40 years end on Bay Street at a top world renowned firm.

I’ve been outing the lies and inconsistencies in your various claims since 2012. You’re not a Canadian. You may have been an exchange student here at one time. But you’re not living here now.
 
No, it's a good way for police to slow walk files and omit details so that the Crown has to call them in these off hours.

It's a massive racket which is why many people are walking because of lengthy delays, and, police funding has ballooned out of control.

Even lawyers don't charge what they are charging.
Oh shut the fuck up. You have no proof that there is "slow walking". When I did pub sec work, our floor (non union by the way) was 2 hours. If you got called in and sent home and the entire thing took 20 minutes--the State of Texas paid 2 hours OT. Still do from what I'm told.
Nobody slow walked anything.
 
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