Fiction Is The Troublemaker

[Flanders]

It turns out that Atticus Finch is no better than William Willoughby and the other white trash of Maycomb County, Alabama. Atticus is not the heroic civil rights champion author Harper Lee led us to believe in her book To Kill a Mockingbird. Generations of young Americans have been duped. It is now revealed in Lee’s second (really first) book, “Go Set a Watchman,“ that Atticus is a bigot.​

The Case For Banning ‘To Kill A Mockingbird’
Jim Huffman
3:33 PM 07/30/2015

The Case For Banning ‘To Kill A Mockingbird’​

The ban has been lifted:

The racial slur appears 219 times in Mark Twain’s “The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn” and 48 times in Harper Lee’s “To Kill a Mockingbird.”​

‘Huckleberry Finn,’ ‘To Kill a Mockingbird’ return to Virginia classrooms after vote
By Jessica Chasmar
Wednesday, December 7, 2016

‘Huckleberry Finn,’ ‘To Kill a Mockingbird’ return to Virginia classrooms after vote​

Which edition of Huck Finn goes back in the classroom?

A first edition of “Adventures of Huckleberry Finn.” Credit David Duprey/Associated Press ​

https://static01.nyt.com/images/2011/01/05/us/SUB-HUCK/SUB-HUCK-popup.jpg

I assume the New York Times did not get the p.c. memo until after they published the dreaded N-word:

A new edition of “Adventures of Huckleberry Finn” is missing something.

Throughout the book — 219 times in all — the word “******” [censored by USMB] is replaced by “slave,” a substitution that was made by NewSouth Books, a publisher based in Alabama, which plans to release the edition in February.​

Publisher Tinkers With Twain
By JULIE BOSMANJAN. 4, 2011

Publisher Tinkers With Twain​

Solve the problem by not teaching fiction at all. After all, children get enough fiction from movies and television without getting it in classrooms.

See this thread for a few more observations about fiction, books, and libraries:

The truth: There is nothing wrong with banning specific books from public libraries in a free society. PUBLIC is the operative word. Those of us who oppose liberal garbage should not be forced to support such books in public libraries. Works of fiction should be removed from every library that gets tax dollars from any source in any amount. Failure to remove fiction from a library should result in the loss of all public funding including the tax deduction for donations. The publishing industry should pay to house its literary artifacts in their museums.

Banning the sale of books is another matter. I would not ban the sale of any book no matter how offensive it might be to me. Buy all of the books you want, just don’t force me to share the cost of placing and maintaining your choices on library shelves.

Incidentally, if ever there was a canker on this country’s libraries it is this: Many pubic libraries now provide free movie-CDs. I, and many others, sure as hell don’t want public libraries used to promote Hollywood’s garbage.​

Oscar Is In For A Taste

 

[PK1]

Solve the problem by not teaching fiction at all. After all, children get enough fiction from movies and television without getting it in classroom.

I also don't like fiction. I agree that public schools should not "teach" that fictitious literature is superior than non-fiction, but in order to do that, teachers would need to explain the differences and cover both types of literature to some degree.
However, non-fiction should be emphasized and students should avoid wasting their time reading fake news and other Internet trash.

 

[Billy_Kinetta]

It turns out that Atticus Finch is no better than William Willoughby and the other white trash of Maycomb County, Alabama. Atticus is not the heroic civil rights champion author Harper Lee led us to believe in her book To Kill a Mockingbird. Generations of young Americans have been duped. It is now revealed in Lee’s second (really first) book, “Go Set a Watchman,“ that Atticus is a bigot.​

The Case For Banning ‘To Kill A Mockingbird’
Jim Huffman
3:33 PM 07/30/2015

The Case For Banning ‘To Kill A Mockingbird’​

The ban has been lifted:

The racial slur appears 219 times in Mark Twain’s “The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn” and 48 times in Harper Lee’s “To Kill a Mockingbird.”​

‘Huckleberry Finn,’ ‘To Kill a Mockingbird’ return to Virginia classrooms after vote
By Jessica Chasmar
Wednesday, December 7, 2016

‘Huckleberry Finn,’ ‘To Kill a Mockingbird’ return to Virginia classrooms after vote​

Which edition of Huck Finn goes back in the classroom?

A first edition of “Adventures of Huckleberry Finn.” Credit David Duprey/Associated Press ​

https://static01.nyt.com/images/2011/01/05/us/SUB-HUCK/SUB-HUCK-popup.jpg

I assume the New York Times did not get the p.c. memo until after they published the dreaded N-word:

A new edition of “Adventures of Huckleberry Finn” is missing something.

Throughout the book — 219 times in all — the word “******” [censored by USMB] is replaced by “slave,” a substitution that was made by NewSouth Books, a publisher based in Alabama, which plans to release the edition in February.​

Publisher Tinkers With Twain
By JULIE BOSMANJAN. 4, 2011

Publisher Tinkers With Twain​

Solve the problem by not teaching fiction at all. After all, children get enough fiction from movies and television without getting it in classrooms.

See this thread for a few more observations about fiction, books, and libraries:

The truth: There is nothing wrong with banning specific books from public libraries in a free society. PUBLIC is the operative word. Those of us who oppose liberal garbage should not be forced to support such books in public libraries. Works of fiction should be removed from every library that gets tax dollars from any source in any amount. Failure to remove fiction from a library should result in the loss of all public funding including the tax deduction for donations. The publishing industry should pay to house its literary artifacts in their museums.

Banning the sale of books is another matter. I would not ban the sale of any book no matter how offensive it might be to me. Buy all of the books you want, just don’t force me to share the cost of placing and maintaining your choices on library shelves.

Incidentally, if ever there was a canker on this country’s libraries it is this: Many pubic libraries now provide free movie-CDs. I, and many others, sure as hell don’t want public libraries used to promote Hollywood’s garbage.​

Oscar Is In For A Taste

I read both books as a child, along with "Nineteen Eighty-Four".

The Left would ban half my library, the right the other half.

I am against any kind of censorship or the banning of books anywhere, in libraries and most especially in schools.

Fiction permits the reader to experience that which would be otherwise impossible, and is therefore useful for both entertainment and education.

“There must be something in books, something we can’t imagine, to make a woman stay in a burning house; there must be something there. You don’t stay for nothing.”
- Bradbury, Fahrenheit 451

 

[Flanders]

I am against any kind of censorship or the banning of books anywhere, in libraries and most especially in schools.

To Billy_Kinetta: Basically, I agree with your views —— up to the point of using tax dollars to promote fiction in any venue. In fact, I would like to see every book ever written transferred to a computer program. Then everyone who wants to read a book can pay a few pennies to read it on the Net if they cannot afford to buy a hard copy. If nothing else, putting brick & mortar libraries out of business will do more to advance civilization than you can imagination.

 

[Billy_Kinetta]

I am against any kind of censorship or the banning of books anywhere, in libraries and most especially in schools.

To Billy_Kinetta: Basically, I agree with your views —— up to the point of using tax dollars to promote fiction in any venue. In fact, I would like to see every book ever written transferred to a computer program. Then everyone who wants to read a book can pay a few pennies to read it on the Net if they cannot afford to buy a hard copy. If nothing else, putting brick & mortar libraries out of business will do more to advance civilization than you can imagination.

I disagree. I have thousands of such "hard copies", most originals from the periods in which they were written. Each one garners the same affection I would give a puppy.

Who the hell wants to read a book on a tablet, when you can have a nice warm paper one that doesn't strain your eyes?

 

[Flanders]

Who the hell wants to read a book on a tablet, when you can have a nice warm paper one that doesn't strain your eyes?

To Billy_Kinetta: Millions who cannot afford books, nor the time to go to libraries assuming one is nearby.

 

[Moonglow]

I am against any kind of censorship or the banning of books anywhere, in libraries and most especially in schools.

To Billy_Kinetta: Basically, I agree with your views —— up to the point of using tax dollars to promote fiction in any venue. In fact, I would like to see every book ever written transferred to a computer program. Then everyone who wants to read a book can pay a few pennies to read it on the Net if they cannot afford to buy a hard copy. If nothing else, putting brick & mortar libraries out of business will do more to advance civilization than you can imagination.

That is what they do now for kids in school...Virtual libraries..

 

[Flanders]

That is what they do now for kids in school...Virtual libraries..

To Moonglow: Is there any topic you cannot find a way to send tax dollars to the parasite class? I suspect that you work in, or retired from, the education industry.

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

Solve the problem by not teaching fiction at all. After all, children get enough fiction from movies and television without getting it in classroom.

I also don't like fiction. I agree that public schools should not "teach" that fictitious literature is superior than non-fiction, but in order to do that, teachers would need to explain the differences and cover both types of literature to some degree.
However, non-fiction should be emphasized and students should avoid wasting their time reading fake news and other Internet trash.

Unstructured Language Leads to Unstructured Thought

Because of their terrible track record in teaching educated English, high schools should quit teaching the frill of Literature. Spelling, vocabulary, writing, public speaking, pronunciation, irregular plurals, etc.should be continued as an advancement from grade school (which used to be called "grammar school). Lazy teachers want to pontificate about their favorite novels instead of doing the hard work of teaching language skills.

 

[Unkotare]

I am against any kind of censorship or the banning of books anywhere, in libraries and most especially in schools.

To Billy_Kinetta: Basically, I agree with your views —— up to the point of using tax dollars to promote fiction in any venue. In fact, I would like to see every book ever written transferred to a computer program. Then everyone who wants to read a book can pay a few pennies to read it on the Net if they cannot afford to buy a hard copy. If nothing else, putting brick & mortar libraries out of business will do more to advance civilization than you can imagination.

You can go to a library now and read them for free.

 

[Unkotare]

Solve the problem by not teaching fiction at all. After all, children get enough fiction from movies and television without getting it in classroom.

I also don't like fiction. I agree that public schools should not "teach" that fictitious literature is superior than non-fiction, but in order to do that, teachers would need to explain the differences and cover both types of literature to some degree.
However, non-fiction should be emphasized and students should avoid wasting their time reading fake news and other Internet trash.

Unstructured Language Leads to Unstructured Thought

Because of their terrible track record in teaching educated English, high schools should quit teaching the frill of Literature. Spelling, vocabulary, writing, public speaking, pronunciation, irregular plurals, etc.should be continued as an advancement from grade school (which used to be called "grammar school). Lazy teachers want to pontificate about their favorite novels instead of doing the hard work of teaching language skills.

Another post of ignorant, uninformed nonsense.

 

[PK1]

Solve the problem by not teaching fiction at all. After all, children get enough fiction from movies and television without getting it in classroom.

I also don't like fiction. I agree that public schools should not "teach" that fictitious literature is superior than non-fiction, but in order to do that, teachers would need to explain the differences and cover both types of literature to some degree.
However, non-fiction should be emphasized and students should avoid wasting their time reading fake news and other Internet trash.

Unstructured Language Leads to Unstructured Thought

Because of their terrible track record in teaching educated English, high schools should quit teaching the frill of Literature. Spelling, vocabulary, writing, public speaking, pronunciation, irregular plurals, etc.should be continued as an advancement from grade school (which used to be called "grammar school). Lazy teachers want to pontificate about their favorite novels instead of doing the hard work of teaching language skills.

Besides the basics of "Spelling, vocabulary, writing, public speaking, pronunciation, irregular plurals, etc", HS teachers should emphasis critical thinking skills and non-fiction literature. With the Internet revolution and current effectiveness of adware and fake news, critical thinking is even more crucial. The Trump election is a sad example.

 

[Unkotare]

Critical thinking IS taught, and both fiction and non-fiction are studied.

 

[PK1]

Critical thinking IS taught, and both fiction and non-fiction are studied.

Not enough, if it really IS taught.
Critical thinking should be emphasized in HS English classes more than advanced grammar, and non-fiction should also be emphasized, IMO.

 

[Flanders]

Critical thinking IS taught,

Not enough, if it really IS taught.

To Unkotare & PK1: Nice discussion. Let me chime in with an observation that leans towards PK1's doubt.

I doubt if critical thinking can teach genius. And I seriously doubt if analytical thinking can be taught.

Genius is no more than childhood recaptured at will, childhood equipped now with man's physical means to express itself, and with the analytical mind that enables it to bring order into the sum of experience, involuntarily amassed. Charles Baudelaire (1821-67)​

 

[Unkotare]

Critical thinking IS taught, and both fiction and non-fiction are studied.

Not enough, if it really IS taught.
.....

Upon what do you base that claim (and doubt)?

 

[MaryL]

Liberals despise censorship. Censorship is OK when it's liberals ( or what passes for liberals) doing the censoring. I remember when the media had to meet certain rigorous criteria to get approval to even say "damn". Here we are, no holds barred. We can say anything but...and can't question those that allege racism?

 

[PK1]

Liberals despise censorship. Censorship is OK when it's liberals ( or what passes for liberals) doing the censoring. I remember when the media had to meet certain rigorous criteria to get approval to even say "damn". Here we are, no holds barred. We can say anything but...and can't question those that allege racism?

Based on libertarian values, there should be NO censorship unless legitimate victims are involved.

 

[PK1]

Critical thinking IS taught, and both fiction and non-fiction are studied.

Not enough, if it really IS taught.
.....

Upon what do you base that claim (and doubt)?

Upon my own student experiences, what my kids told me, and my participation at school board meetings in my district.
Perhaps other districts are different with more emphasis on critical thinking and non-fiction material, but i'll take the "show me" stance.

 

[PK1]

Critical thinking IS taught,

Not enough, if it really IS taught.

To Unkotare & PK1: Nice discussion. Let me chime in with an observation that leans towards PK1's doubt.

I doubt if critical thinking can teach genius. And I seriously doubt if analytical thinking can be taught.

Genius is no more than childhood recaptured at will, childhood equipped now with man's physical means to express itself, and with the analytical mind that enables it to bring order into the sum of experience, involuntarily amassed. Charles Baudelaire (1821-67)​

Yes, some students are smarter than others, but all students can learn some analytical skills.