Federal Highway Funding

[Crystalclear]

Government funded projects do not grow the economy. They shift confiscated funds from one segment of society to another segment. Anyone who has traveled through Pa and MD along Interstate 81 and 78 is well aware that highway and bridge construction is ongoing and seemingly never ending.

Government interference does never grow the economy.

 

[Crystalclear]

The private sector creates more jobs without the people having to pay for the creation of jobs

 

[Dad2three]

Government funded projects do not grow the economy. They shift confiscated funds from one segment of society to another segment. Anyone who has traveled through Pa and MD along Interstate 81 and 78 is well aware that highway and bridge construction is ongoing and seemingly never ending.

Government interference does never grow the economy.

(Re-)Introducing: The American School of Economics


When the United States became independent from Britain it also rebelled against the British System of economics, characterized by Adam Smith, in favor of the American School based on protectionism and infrastructure and prospered under this system for almost 200 years to become the wealthiest nation in the world. Unrestrained free trade resurfaced in the early 1900s culminating in the Great Depression and again in the 1970s culminating in the current Economic Meltdown.

Closely related to mercantilism, it can be seen as contrary to classical economics. It consisted of these three core policies:

protecting industry through selective high tariffs (especially 1861–1932) and through subsidies (especially 1932–70)

government investments in infrastructure creating targeted internal improvements (especially in transportation)

a national bank with policies that promote the growth of productive enterprises rather than speculation.



Frank Bourgin's 1989 study of the Constitutional Convention shows that direct government involvement in the economy was intended by the Founders

The goal, most forcefully articulated by Hamilton, was to ensure that dearly won political independence was not lost by being economically and financially dependent on the powers and princes of Europe. The creation of a strong central government able to promote science, invention, industry and commerce, was seen as an essential means of promoting the general welfare and making the economy of the United States strong enough for them to determine their own destiny.


American School of Economics


American School (economics) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Dad2three]

The fact is folks that between federal and state gasoline, diesel, tolls, and excise taxes as well as mileage fees for commercial trucks we collected over 100 billion dollars in 2013 alone.

So don't try to tell me we don't have enough money to fix our roads. Instead tell me where all the money is going.

These 2 Charts Prove American Drivers Don't Pay Enough for Roads

To wit: Americans pay around $450 a year in road charges, according to the data compiled by Gomez and Vassallo. That's roughly 3 to 4 times less drivers from other countries in the study. Once again the key culprit is the gas tax. U.S. gas tax rates are up to 83 percent lower for gasoline cars and 81 percent lower for diesel cars compared to the same taxes paid in European nations.

Gomez and Vassallo conclude:

The US funding model has showed itself to have a limited capacity to meet the increasing demands of road programs in the future. In this respect, it seems clear that significantly relying for the securing of funds on non-revisable or seldom-revisable charges, as happens with the federal gas tax in the US, makes the system unsustainable in the long-term.



These 2 Charts Prove American Drivers Don't Pay Enough for Roads - CityLab



Gas tax falling short in paying for transportation needs



Highway advocates often claim that roads “pay for themselves,” with gasoline taxes and other charges to motorists covering – or nearly covering – the full cost of highway construction and maintenance.

They are wrong.



Highways do not – and, except for brief periods in our nation’s history – never have paid for themselves through the taxes that highway advocates label “user fees.”

Since 1947, the amount of money spent on highways, roads and streets has exceeded the amount raised through gasoline taxes and other so-called “user fees” by $600 billion (2005 dollars), representing a massive transfer of general government funds to highways.



Do Roads Pay for Themselves? | Frontier Group

 

[Dad2three]

The fact is folks that between federal and state gasoline, diesel, tolls, and excise taxes as well as mileage fees for commercial trucks we collected over 100 billion dollars in 2013 alone.

So don't try to tell me we don't have enough money to fix our roads. Instead tell me where all the money is going.

Since 1947, the amount of money spent on highways, roads and streets has exceeded the amount raised through gasoline taxes and other so-called “user fees” by $600 billion (2005 dollars), representing a massive transfer of general government funds to highways.



Highways don’t pay for themselves.

Do Roads Pay for Themselves? | Frontier Group

 

[Dad2three]

Just let states or the private sector take over the highways.

Myths and fairy tales. Grow up and grow a brain....

 

[Shanty]

Well, children, we are looking at a fairly significant increase in the federal gasoline tax, because the revenues for our highways (and other transportation stuff) are just insufficient to pay for the upkeep of our roads and bridges.

But as with many Government problems, it is largely contrived and the solution is as simple as it is obvious.

First, a bit of history.

During the Great Depression, our worthy Congresspersons spent a lot of their effort trying to "bring home the bacon," so to speak. They fought for the construction of roads, bridges, military installations, and other government buildings in their districts, in order to create (mainly) construction jobs that would stimulate the local economy.

But there was a fly in the ointment. Unscrupulous contractors, mainly from The South, would bid these jobs at very low prices, and execute them with low-wage workers brought in from the outside - usually so-called, "Negroes." Thus, the jobs that were created did not benefit the locals, who the Congressperson was trying to benefit.

So they passed a law that required that on all Federal construction projects, the bidding contractors were required to pay the "prevailing wages" in the locality where the construction took place. So the outside contractors could not gain any benefit by bringing in people who were willing to work for less, because they were required to pay the same as local contractors.

Over a short period of time, the Department of Labor decided that the "prevailing wage" would be defined as the local construction union wages, regardless of any actual reality. So if only 5% of the local construction workers were Union and 95% were not, the "prevailing wage" was still the union rate. This is the way it is now.

As a result, every Federal construction project since the 1930's has been bid and priced at inflated wages and, generally speaking, counterproductive union work rules.

It is impossible to say exactly how much money is being wasted due to federal "prevailing wage" practices (most states have analogous laws as well), but it cannot help but be in the tens of billions of dollars every year. The Obama Administration has doubled down on this counterproductive practice by insisting on project labor agreements, thus ensuring that non-union contractors can't successfully get contracts, even if they agree to pay union rates. Nice, huh?

Repeal Davis Bacon. Fire Barry O'Bama.

Problem solved.

Conservative race to the bottom, ALWAYS make it more difficulty on those at the bottom!




Corporate interests and their advocates claim that Davis-Bacon increases taxpayer costs, but numerous studies have shown it does not. Employers who oppose prevailing wage, do so because they want to cut workers’ paychecks and pocket the pay-cuts as profits.

In fact, a study of school construction costs in Great Plains states showed that prevailing wage laws not only do not raise construction costs – but also that repealing such laws hurt taxpayers and workers. After Kansas’ prevailing wage law was repealed, wages fell 11 percent, training programs declined 38 percent, jobsite injuries rose 19 percent and employer contributions to pensions fell 17 percent, according to the study prepared for the Kansas Senate.



Highway construction costs are actually higher when workers are paid less, according to an analysis of Federal Highway Administration data by the Construction Labor Research Council. The study showed that the cost to build a mile of highway in high-wage states (averaging $17.65 per hour) compared with low wage states ($9.76 an hour) was, on average, $123,057 per mile less due to higher productivity.

A Wisconsin study (Belman and Voos) of the state’s prevailing wage law showed that potential savings from wage cuts were far outweighed by the loss of income to communities. The annual cost of repealing the law was estimated at $123 million in lost income and a net tax revenue loss of $6.8 million. In Missouri, a similar study (Kelsay) showed a loss to the state of $318 million to $384 million.

Cost overruns are more likely without prevailing wage laws. In Utah, a repeal of the state prevailing wage law was followed by a tripling of cost overruns, which was attributed to lower productivity and a less skilled workforce (Phillips).



Prevailing Wage and Davis Bacon - Laborers' International Union of North America


Project Labor Agreements (PLA)

A project labor agreement is a business model that increases the efficiency and quality of construction projects for the private sector as well as local, state, and federal government(s)

It is a pre hire collective bargaining agreement that establishes the terms and conditions of employment for all workers and their respective crafts on one or more construction project(s).


Used on all types of construction projects such as schools, hospitals, power plants, government buildings, and sports stadiums

Widespread praise and use by Fortune 500 companies such as Walmart, Toyota, and Boeing


Pro Business

Prohibits all strikes or work stoppages by all construction workers on the project

Establishes a single procedure for handling all workforce disputes regardless of the craft

Is an effective tool for ensuring that large and complex projects are completed on time

Provides construction contractors with access to a highly skilled & properly trained workforce

Creates a set wage for each craft and apprentices on the construction project, allowing for accurate budgeting by the business owner and construction contractors on and off the job site

Encourages employment of local residents, in turn ensuring that these workers’ paychecks will be spent in the local community.


Support Davis Bacon and Project Labor Agreements | Local Union No. 3, International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers - Official Website


Jun 04, 2012

(GOP MAJORITY) House Rejects Attempts to Limit Project Labor Agreements, Eliminate Davis-Bacon


House Rejects Attempts to Limit Project Labor Agreements, Eliminate Davis-Bacon

Yeah. The math doesn't work out for the wing nuts who say that Prevailing Wage laws increase costs.

 

[Skull Pilot]

The fact is folks that between federal and state gasoline, diesel, tolls, and excise taxes as well as mileage fees for commercial trucks we collected over 100 billion dollars in 2013 alone.

So don't try to tell me we don't have enough money to fix our roads. Instead tell me where all the money is going.

These 2 Charts Prove American Drivers Don't Pay Enough for Roads

To wit: Americans pay around $450 a year in road charges, according to the data compiled by Gomez and Vassallo. That's roughly 3 to 4 times less drivers from other countries in the study. Once again the key culprit is the gas tax. U.S. gas tax rates are up to 83 percent lower for gasoline cars and 81 percent lower for diesel cars compared to the same taxes paid in European nations.

Gomez and Vassallo conclude:

The US funding model has showed itself to have a limited capacity to meet the increasing demands of road programs in the future. In this respect, it seems clear that significantly relying for the securing of funds on non-revisable or seldom-revisable charges, as happens with the federal gas tax in the US, makes the system unsustainable in the long-term.



These 2 Charts Prove American Drivers Don't Pay Enough for Roads - CityLab



Gas tax falling short in paying for transportation needs



Highway advocates often claim that roads “pay for themselves,” with gasoline taxes and other charges to motorists covering – or nearly covering – the full cost of highway construction and maintenance.

They are wrong.



Highways do not – and, except for brief periods in our nation’s history – never have paid for themselves through the taxes that highway advocates label “user fees.”

Since 1947, the amount of money spent on highways, roads and streets has exceeded the amount raised through gasoline taxes and other so-called “user fees” by $600 billion (2005 dollars), representing a massive transfer of general government funds to highways.



Do Roads Pay for Themselves? | Frontier Group

It proves no such thing.

We collected 100 billion in 2013 alone in taxes and fees that were supposed to be earmarked for roads.

We overpay unions for road work, graft and corruption are rife within all federal highway projects.

That the corrupt ass wipes in government and unions commit malfeasance with our taxes does not mean we have too little money stolen from us.

 

[Sallow]

And in the magical land of Conservatopia, highways and bridges somehow manage to fix themselves.

In the magic land of Libtopia, raising taxes fixes everything!

I dunno where you live, but fixing things costs money.

And the US infrastructure? That's part of the bedrock that makes the US economy so successful.

In NY/Jersey, the George Washington Bridge, one of the most heavily used in the nation, has so many potholes it is causing trucks to break down. Seems if you continue to shake mechanical parts. they have a tendency to wear down at a faster rate or just plain malfunction.

And most all goods in this country? Are transported by truck.

See how it works now?

 

[Sallow]

The fact is folks that between federal and state gasoline, diesel, tolls, and excise taxes as well as mileage fees for commercial trucks we collected over 100 billion dollars in 2013 alone.

So don't try to tell me we don't have enough money to fix our roads. Instead tell me where all the money is going.

These 2 Charts Prove American Drivers Don't Pay Enough for Roads

To wit: Americans pay around $450 a year in road charges, according to the data compiled by Gomez and Vassallo. That's roughly 3 to 4 times less drivers from other countries in the study. Once again the key culprit is the gas tax. U.S. gas tax rates are up to 83 percent lower for gasoline cars and 81 percent lower for diesel cars compared to the same taxes paid in European nations.

Gomez and Vassallo conclude:

The US funding model has showed itself to have a limited capacity to meet the increasing demands of road programs in the future. In this respect, it seems clear that significantly relying for the securing of funds on non-revisable or seldom-revisable charges, as happens with the federal gas tax in the US, makes the system unsustainable in the long-term.



These 2 Charts Prove American Drivers Don't Pay Enough for Roads - CityLab



Gas tax falling short in paying for transportation needs



Highway advocates often claim that roads “pay for themselves,” with gasoline taxes and other charges to motorists covering – or nearly covering – the full cost of highway construction and maintenance.

They are wrong.



Highways do not – and, except for brief periods in our nation’s history – never have paid for themselves through the taxes that highway advocates label “user fees.”

Since 1947, the amount of money spent on highways, roads and streets has exceeded the amount raised through gasoline taxes and other so-called “user fees” by $600 billion (2005 dollars), representing a massive transfer of general government funds to highways.



Do Roads Pay for Themselves? | Frontier Group

It proves no such thing.

We collected 100 billion in 2013 alone in taxes and fees that were supposed to be earmarked for roads.

We overpay unions for road work, graft and corruption are rife within all federal highway projects.

That the corrupt ass wipes in government and unions commit malfeasance with our taxes does not mean we have too little money stolen from us.

You are slightly correct but mostly wrong.


Highway construction is generally outsourced to private firms. They way underbid to compete and when the "rubber hits the road" so to speak, the price gets inflated.

It's not overpaying.

But there are simple solutions.

First develop a government workforce specifically charged with highway maintenance.

Or have a government auditor provision each job based on a ballpark figure. If a bid is too low, it should be ignored.

Both are pretty simple fixes.

Thanks to Citizen's United? Neither will ever be implemented.

 

[Sallow]

Government funded projects do not grow the economy. They shift confiscated funds from one segment of society to another segment. Anyone who has traveled through Pa and MD along Interstate 81 and 78 is well aware that highway and bridge construction is ongoing and seemingly never ending.

Government interference does never grow the economy.

That's ridiculous.

The Government is both the largest employer of Americans and the largest consumer of American products.

 

[Crystalclear]

Just let states or the private sector take over the highways.

Myths and fairy tales. Grow up and grow a brain....

Why is that a myth or a fairy tale?
State or private highway funding will do just fine.

 

[Sallow]

Just let states or the private sector take over the highways.

Myths and fairy tales. Grow up and grow a brain....

Why is that a myth or a fairy tale?
State or private highway funding will do just fine.

You mean like in New Jersey?

When Christie diverted federal funding for a new train tunnel between New York and New Jersey to fix the Pulaski Skyway?

Gov. Chris Christie's office probed for possible violations over Port Authority's funding of Pulaski Skyway repairs: report - NY Daily News

Or when Palin made a big stink about a bridge, successfully killed the project and built a useless road instead?

The bridge failed, but the 'Road to Nowhere' was built - CNN.com

 

[KissMy]

Just let states or the private sector take over the highways.

Screw you! Sales, income & property tax will soar.

Make the users pay for roads & end the heavy subsidy from tax payers.

Missouri Senate just passe a record sales tax increase for roads to cover the gas tax shortfall. That money is buying asphalt & fuel from oil companies to build roads for their customers. People who walk or bike should not be paying another 1% sales tax increase for roads.

 

[Crystalclear]

Just let states or the private sector take over the highways.

Screw you! Sales, income & property tax will soar.

Make the users pay for roads & end the heavy subsidy from tax payers.

Missouri Senate just passe a record sales tax increase for roads to cover the gas tax shortfall. That money is buying asphalt & fuel from oil companies to build roads for their customers. People who walk or bike should not be paying another 1% sales tax increase for roads.

That can be true for state funding, but when highways are funded by the private sector only users of the roads will have to pay.

 

[KissMy]

Just let states or the private sector take over the highways.

Screw you! Sales, income & property tax will soar.

Make the users pay for roads & end the heavy subsidy from tax payers.

Missouri Senate just passe a record sales tax increase for roads to cover the gas tax shortfall. That money is buying asphalt & fuel from oil companies to build roads for their customers. People who walk or bike should not be paying another 1% sales tax increase for roads.

That can be true for state funding, but when highways are funded by the private sector only users of the roads will have to pay.

Gas tax is a user fee. It just has never covered all the cost & now has a huge gap. Private roads have expensive toll booths, operators & profits. User fees will explode & cause economic harm. The gas tax is the most efficient & effective way to pay user fees.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Screw you! Sales, income & property tax will soar.

Make the users pay for roads & end the heavy subsidy from tax payers.

Missouri Senate just passe a record sales tax increase for roads to cover the gas tax shortfall. That money is buying asphalt & fuel from oil companies to build roads for their customers. People who walk or bike should not be paying another 1% sales tax increase for roads.

That can be true for state funding, but when highways are funded by the private sector only users of the roads will have to pay.

Gas tax is a user fee. It just has never covered all the cost & now has a huge gap. Private roads have expensive toll booths, operators & profits. User fees will explode & cause economic harm. The gas tax is the most efficient & effective way to pay user fees.

If highways were privately managed the state and fed would not have to charge a gas tax to fund them. Instead the management company would collect fees directly from those who use highways via tolls or usage fees.

Gas taxes could be used solely for state local routes and roads

 

[Dad2three]

The fact is folks that between federal and state gasoline, diesel, tolls, and excise taxes as well as mileage fees for commercial trucks we collected over 100 billion dollars in 2013 alone.

So don't try to tell me we don't have enough money to fix our roads. Instead tell me where all the money is going.

These 2 Charts Prove American Drivers Don't Pay Enough for Roads

To wit: Americans pay around $450 a year in road charges, according to the data compiled by Gomez and Vassallo. That's roughly 3 to 4 times less drivers from other countries in the study. Once again the key culprit is the gas tax. U.S. gas tax rates are up to 83 percent lower for gasoline cars and 81 percent lower for diesel cars compared to the same taxes paid in European nations.

Gomez and Vassallo conclude:

The US funding model has showed itself to have a limited capacity to meet the increasing demands of road programs in the future. In this respect, it seems clear that significantly relying for the securing of funds on non-revisable or seldom-revisable charges, as happens with the federal gas tax in the US, makes the system unsustainable in the long-term.



These 2 Charts Prove American Drivers Don't Pay Enough for Roads - CityLab



Gas tax falling short in paying for transportation needs



Highway advocates often claim that roads “pay for themselves,” with gasoline taxes and other charges to motorists covering – or nearly covering – the full cost of highway construction and maintenance.

They are wrong.



Highways do not – and, except for brief periods in our nation’s history – never have paid for themselves through the taxes that highway advocates label “user fees.”

Since 1947, the amount of money spent on highways, roads and streets has exceeded the amount raised through gasoline taxes and other so-called “user fees” by $600 billion (2005 dollars), representing a massive transfer of general government funds to highways.



Do Roads Pay for Themselves? | Frontier Group

It proves no such thing.

We collected 100 billion in 2013 alone in taxes and fees that were supposed to be earmarked for roads.

We overpay unions for road work, graft and corruption are rife within all federal highway projects.

That the corrupt ass wipes in government and unions commit malfeasance with our taxes does not mean we have too little money stolen from us.

Since 1947, the amount of money spent on highways, roads and streets has exceeded the amount raised through gasoline taxes and other so-called “user fees” by $600 billion (2005 dollars), representing a massive transfer of general government funds to highways.

 

[Dad2three]

Just let states or the private sector take over the highways.

Myths and fairy tales. Grow up and grow a brain....

Why is that a myth or a fairy tale?
State or private highway funding will do just fine.

I'm sure you could give some successful examples? lol

Libertarians believe in myths and fairy tales, nothing that EVER works...

 

[KissMy]

That can be true for state funding, but when highways are funded by the private sector only users of the roads will have to pay.

Gas tax is a user fee. It just has never covered all the cost & now has a huge gap. Private roads have expensive toll booths, operators & profits. User fees will explode & cause economic harm. The gas tax is the most efficient & effective way to pay user fees.

If highways were privately managed the state and fed would not have to charge a gas tax to fund them. Instead the management company would collect fees directly from those who use highways via tolls or usage fees.

Gas taxes could be used solely for state local routes and roads

You & Crystal meth head are the stupidest idiots on here. The cheapest toll roads in the USA cost drivers 5 cents a mile & they are still tax payer subsidized.That's $1.25 a gallon just for the toll because the average car now getting 25/mpg. The government does it for 70% cheaper than the the cheapest private roads. That's not counting the $1.03 a gallon tax payers pay for the military to guard oil shipping lanes.

Toll roads in California charge 35 cents a mile. That is the same as $8.75 a gallon gas tax. Add in the $103 military cost & you will be paying the same as a $9.78 a gallon tax. Then add the $3 a gallon wholesale cost for gas & California drivers will pay $12.78 equivalent price per gallon of gas. Per mile tolls are regressive penalizing fuel efficiency.

So hell no to your stupid plan to do serious irreparable economic harm to this country & it's citizens. Go find another country to destroy.