Facts that will interest those who fly on airplanes -science included

[Robert W]

How long would you last were a helicopter drop you off at the top of Mt. Everest? Why do airplanes fly so high? Some of this we do not think about normally. If you watch all of the video, what surprised you most?

 

[The Irish Ram]

If cell phone signals are horizontal leaving the plane, and the towers are set downward to pick up signals on the ground, then how well do cell phones work on a plane, if at all?

 

[toobfreak]

How long would you last were a helicopter drop you off at the top of Mt. Everest?

I was close, I guessed 5 minutes.

Why do airplanes fly so high?

No surprises there.

 

[Robert W]

If cell phone signals are horizontal leaving the plane, and the towers are set downward to pick up signals on the ground, then how well do cell phones work on a plane, if at all?

Cell phone use is discussed on the video. Key elements of your comment is the word IF, And, then your question. My mind conceives towers on land that are not over the oceans unless they are on satellites.

 

[ReinyDays]

I guessed 220 millibars for altitude ... [giggle] ...

That flight level is a temperature minima ... keep going up and pressure continues to fall but temperature actually rises ... solar IR is absorbed in the stratosphere and this makes thing warmer ... so the optimum temperature/density ratio is there at the top of the troposphere ...

Just six miles up, 80% of the atmosphere lies below these flight levels ...

 

[Robert W]

I guessed 220 millibars for altitude ... [giggle] ...

That flight level is a temperature minima ... keep going up and pressure continues to fall but temperature actually rises ... solar IR is absorbed in the stratosphere and this makes thing warmer ... so the optimum temperature/density ratio is there at the top of the troposphere ...

Just six miles up, 80% of the atmosphere lies below these flight levels ...

As a pilot, I can't let that pass at all. Temperature falls as we go higher and higher.

 

[ReinyDays]

As a pilot, I can't let that pass at all. Temperature falls as we go higher and higher.

Up to the Tropopause ... in the Stratosphere temperatures increase with altitude ...

U.S. Standard Atmosphere - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Yeah, I know, you got clearance to descend to FL650 ... ha ha ... (SR-71 humor) ...

 

[toobfreak]

As a pilot, I can't let that pass at all. Temperature falls as we go higher and higher.

QUITE wrong. That is only true UP TO A POINT as Reiny pointed out, but as a pilot, you wouldn't know that since ordinary airplanes never get that high up!

 

[Robert W]

QUITE wrong. That is only true UP TO A POINT as Reiny pointed out, but as a pilot, you wouldn't know that since ordinary airplanes never get that high up!

View attachment 1009496

What exists at very high altitudes to move faster signifying it is hotter?

Decreases in temperature with altitude​

As altitude increases, temperature decreases. Various factors are responsible for this, including air pressure and water-vapour content.

With every 100 metres, the temperature drops by an average of 0.65°C. Where the air is very dry, such as in an area of high pressure, the air can cool by almost 1°C per 100 metres. This process depends on the air pressure, heat radiation and water-vapour content of the air.

Lower air pressure at altitude​

Temperature is usually dependent on air pressure. The higher the pressure, the higher the temperature. Since atmospheric pressure is greatest at sea level, the highest temperatures are generally observed at sea level under comparable weather conditions. The higher one climbs, the further the temperature sinks, due to the decreasing air pressure.
Aside from air pressure, another determining factor in how temperature changes with altitude is the way in which the atmosphere is heated. The atmosphere is mostly warmed by the Earth’s surface. The incoming short-wave solar radiation warms the Earth’s surface, which in turn emits long-wave thermal radiation to the atmosphere above.

Decreases in temperature with altitude - MeteoSwiss

Air temperatures decrease with increasing altitude. Air pressure and water-vapour content contribute to this.

www.meteoswiss.admin.ch

 

[Robert W]

Toobfreak, why the thumbs down? I posted to help you a scientific report?

 

[toobfreak]

Temperature is usually dependent on air pressure. The higher the pressure, the higher the temperature.

Look, I know what I'm talking about. Your linked article speaks in generalities. The coldest place on earth is at SEA LEVEL in Antarctica, and I supplied you with a chart showing mean temperature all the way out to the exosphere (space). As to the temperature/pressure relationship, I would only point out the solar atmosphere. On the surface of the Sun, it is 10,000°F. Up in the corona where the Sun is far less dense, it rises to 1,000,000°F.

Now I've told you and Reiny told you, your relationship between altitude, pressure and temperature generally hold true, but only within the troposphere.

 

[Robert W]

Look, I know what I'm talking about. Your linked article speaks in generalities. The coldest place on earth is at SEA LEVEL in Antarctica, and I supplied you with a chart showing mean temperature all the way out to the exosphere (space). As to the temperature/pressure relationship, I would only point out the solar atmosphere. On the surface of the Sun, it is 10,000°F. Up in the corona where the Sun is far less dense, it rises to 1,000,000°F.

Now I've told you and Reiny told you, your relationship between altitude, pressure and temperature generally hold true, but only within the troposphere.

You go against all my lessons to be a pilot. And in physics courses, this would shock my teachers. The chart you posted came with no source that can be checked.

 

[toobfreak]

Toobfreak, why the thumbs down? I posted to help you a scientific report?

Because you are dead wrong on this topic. Trust me.

 

[Robert W]

Because you are dead wrong on this topic. Trust me.

I did research on your claims. Yes way way up extremely high, temperatures do rise as you said. I learned something new today. Thanks a lot.

 

[ReinyDays]

I did research on your claims. Yes way way up extremely high, temperatures do rise as you said. I learned something new today. Thanks a lot.

Like Toobfreak states, general aviation pilots don't get that high ... God's truth we had a Cessna 172 to 14,000 feet once ... not even close to the attitudes we're talking about ...

The video accuses UV, we also have IR ... the important part is this is the solar energy is in the part of the spectrum our atmosphere is opaque to, thus the upper atmosphere absorbs this energy and warms up ... the greenhouse effect in reverse ...

What's really weird is further up we have a layer called the thermosphere ... again temperatures rise with altitude up to the vicinity of 750ºC ... you're reading that right, seven hundred and fifty degrees ... however, the air is so thin, there's very very little energy, just that each molecule has to hold a greater share ... and that's how is merges with interplanetary space ...

Here's another diagram:

See how temperatures drops in the part of the atmosphere below the planet's surface and then rises above the planet's surface ... yeah, our climatological truths here on Earth have to be true on Jupiter as well ...

 

[Robert W]

Like Toobfreak states, general aviation pilots don't get that high ... God's truth we had a Cessna 172 to 14,000 feet once ... not even close to the attitudes we're talking about ...

The video accuses UV, we also have IR ... the important part is this is the solar energy is in the part of the spectrum our atmosphere is opaque to, thus the upper atmosphere absorbs this energy and warms up ... the greenhouse effect in reverse ...

What's really weird is further up we have a layer called the thermosphere ... again temperatures rise with altitude up to the vicinity of 750ºC ... you're reading that right, seven hundred and fifty degrees ... however, the air is so thin, there's very very little energy, just that each molecule has to hold a greater share ... and that's how is merges with interplanetary space ...

Here's another diagram:

See how temperatures drops in the part of the atmosphere below the planet's surface and then rises above the planet's surface ... yeah, our climatological truths here on Earth have to be true on Jupiter as well ...

Interesting. First I was under the impression Toobfreak was trying to discuss thermal inversions. I know of no pilot that flies in the parts you and he now discuss.

 

[ReinyDays]

Interesting. First I was under the impression Toobfreak was trying to discuss thermal inversions. I know of no pilot that flies in the parts you and he now discuss.

Spot on correct ... the entire Stratosphere is in thermal inversion ... there's no vertical air currents, so no clouds and no weather ...

Commercial pilots fly in the lower Stratosphere on a regular basis ... FL360 and above with an altimeter setting of 992 ... on average ... I think I'm stating that correctly ...

 

[Robert W]

Spot on correct ... the entire Stratosphere is in thermal inversion ... there's no vertical air currents, so no clouds and no weather ...

Commercial pilots fly in the lower Stratosphere on a regular basis ... FL360 and above with an altimeter setting of 992 ... on average ... I think I'm stating that correctly ...

Yeah, .992 is like the Bible.

 

[Robert W]

Spot on correct ... the entire Stratosphere is in thermal inversion ... there's no vertical air currents, so no clouds and no weather ...

Commercial pilots fly in the lower Stratosphere on a regular basis ... FL360 and above with an altimeter setting of 992 ... on average ... I think I'm stating that correctly ...

We might also add that at such extreme altitudes, climate is not impacted at all. For reasons you spelled out above.

 

[ChemEngineer]

As a pilot, I can't let that pass at all. Temperature falls
as we go higher and higher.

My good friend, Robert W's response to reinydays, who has long been on my Ignore List.

The drop in temperature is, as Robert knows only too well, is called the "lapse rate."
It is approximately 3 degrees F per thousand feet. Everyone should know the decrease in temperature as you go up, even if they are unfamiliar with the buzz word and the rate of decline. Leftists, not so much. Amusing fact: Atheist Isaac Asimov refused to fly on commercial aircraft due to his fear of crashing. Isaac was ignorant of the fact that travel by air is ten times safer per passenger mile than travel by automobile. But, hey, his son was arrested in Northern California recently for child porno found on his computer when he took it in for repairs.

Shades of Hunter Biden! Karma is a Hillary.

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