Seymour Flops
Diamond Member
Volodymr Zelenskyy got a warm welcome in London on Saturday as leaders across Europe rallied to his defense on the heels of an extraordinary Oval Office clash in which President Trump accused the Ukrainian leader of "gambling with World War III."
French President Emmanuel Macron was among the most pointed in his public statements, distinguishing between what he called the "aggressor" — Russia — and the "victim" — Ukraine. He said that countries including France that had helped Ukraine and sanctioned Russia three years ago after its February 2022 invasion were "right" to continue to do so.
The European Union's most powerful leader, Commission President Ursula von der Leyen, told Zelenskyy in a message posted on social media on Friday that his "dignity honors the bravery of the Ukrainian people," adding an encouragement that he "be strong, be brave, be fearless," and concluding "you are never alone."
Stirring words. But what do they mean.
Zelenskyy is taking a "my way or the highway" approach to the United States' help in the war. Not hard to guess which choice Trump will make under an ultimatum like that. So, for this thread, let's assume that Trump ends up withdrawing all help to Ukraine.
Is Zelenskyy counting on more help from Europe than he will ultimately get? And will Europe accept his all-or-nothing approach? Or well they also insist on diplomacy during a cease-fire, which Zelenskyy rejected from the U.S? Will he accept it if Europe proposes it?
If the absolute minimum that Zelenskyy is willing to take is a humiliating total defeat for Russia, and full NATO membership for his country, will European leaders go along with that? It's what we the United States gave western Europe after they were attacked by Nazi Germany, not only a humiliating defeat, but near destruction of the aggressor. But . . . it took a total war to get to that.
Is Europe ready for a total war against Russia as demanded by Zelenskyy?
In Zelenskyy's first official meeting since the row — which also included Vice President JD Vance and took place in full view of the media — British Prime Minister Kier Starmer embraced Zelenskyy as the two met at 10 Downing Street. Starmer told the Ukrainian leader that he has "full backing across the United Kingdom."French President Emmanuel Macron was among the most pointed in his public statements, distinguishing between what he called the "aggressor" — Russia — and the "victim" — Ukraine. He said that countries including France that had helped Ukraine and sanctioned Russia three years ago after its February 2022 invasion were "right" to continue to do so.
The European Union's most powerful leader, Commission President Ursula von der Leyen, told Zelenskyy in a message posted on social media on Friday that his "dignity honors the bravery of the Ukrainian people," adding an encouragement that he "be strong, be brave, be fearless," and concluding "you are never alone."
Stirring words. But what do they mean.
Zelenskyy is taking a "my way or the highway" approach to the United States' help in the war. Not hard to guess which choice Trump will make under an ultimatum like that. So, for this thread, let's assume that Trump ends up withdrawing all help to Ukraine.
Is Zelenskyy counting on more help from Europe than he will ultimately get? And will Europe accept his all-or-nothing approach? Or well they also insist on diplomacy during a cease-fire, which Zelenskyy rejected from the U.S? Will he accept it if Europe proposes it?
If the absolute minimum that Zelenskyy is willing to take is a humiliating total defeat for Russia, and full NATO membership for his country, will European leaders go along with that? It's what we the United States gave western Europe after they were attacked by Nazi Germany, not only a humiliating defeat, but near destruction of the aggressor. But . . . it took a total war to get to that.
Is Europe ready for a total war against Russia as demanded by Zelenskyy?
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