End the Foolish War on Drugs

[dilloduck]

And where does all of your experience come from on drug addiction and treatment?

 

[nycflasher]

Originally posted by dilloduck
And where does all of your experience come from on drug addiction and treatment?

OCA is just a hateful little man that puts all of those who don't agree with him into the "druggie, liberal, lazy, etc" category and dismisses them. Thankfully, there are more thoughtful, insightful minds out there!

 

[menewa]

Originally posted by OCA
Can't really compare Marlboros and Johnny Walker to crack and heroin I don't think. I've never heard of somebody bumming a smoke at a bar and then the next day absolutely needing, absolutely craving another smoke. Same with booze, the level of addiction or whatever they call the stuff that makes the body physically crave the stuff to the point of being sick is VASTLY different between those two.

Had a friend of mine who worked in a 4 star restauraunt, this guy was a all star athlete plus being an honor roll student. At a xmas party for the restauraunt 1 year somebody offered him a hit of crack and in the midst of being drunk he hit it, within a week he told me he was frequenting crack houses looking for the shit. He's dead now.

I'm sorry about your friend OCA. I had a few friends after high school that got into that sick shit too. They didn't die but their spirits sure did.

 

[DKSuddeth]

Had a friend of mine who worked in a 4 star restauraunt, this guy was a all star athlete plus being an honor roll student. At a xmas party for the restauraunt 1 year somebody offered him a hit of crack and in the midst of being drunk he hit it, within a week he told me he was frequenting crack houses looking for the shit. He's dead now.

I mean no disrespect to your dead friend OCA, but wheres that conservative 'its your fault' ideology now?

 

[dilloduck]

Originally posted by OCA
Well all you've got to do is look at the avatarof Dildo and see where he stands, for a junkie who was washed up and so stoned that he couldn't write enough tunes for twenty years or so to produce an album of original material.

Matts, man I don't know, some bad brown acid maybe?

But yeah these admissions explain a lot about the outside the ballpark positions.

Didn't get an answer about other addictions that kill people !----Should we ban em all?????

 

[OCA]

Originally posted by DKSuddeth
I mean no disrespect to your dead friend OCA, but wheres that conservative 'its your fault' ideology now?

No he fucked up and he knew it and was told by many people and he was spurned by many people after he would rip them off after a little stay at their house, me included. My point is that if these drugs are known to be this dangerous and really have very little beneficial value why would we even consider legalizing them?

 

[OCA]

Originally posted by nycflasher
OCA is just a hateful little man that puts all of those who don't agree with him into the "druggie, liberal, lazy, etc" category and dismisses them. Thankfully, there are more thoughtful, insightful minds out there!

Seems I got me a stalker or admirer, i'm flattered Flasher/Chippewa, really flattered

 

[DKSuddeth]

Originally posted by OCA
No he fucked up and he knew it and was told by many people and he was spurned by many people after he would rip them off after a little stay at their house, me included. My point is that if these drugs are known to be this dangerous and really have very little beneficial value why would we even consider legalizing them?

alot of people feel that if the 'taboo' or illegality of drugs is removed, the want to do them will decrease.

 

[dilloduck]

Originally posted by dilloduck
Didn't get an answer about other addictions that kill people !----Should we ban em all?????

Cmon champ----i'm waiting----your like a liberal-----bitch about things that you have no solution for.

 

[OCA]

Originally posted by DKSuddeth
alot of people feel that if the 'taboo' or illegality of drugs is removed, the want to do them will decrease.

I happen to feel differently. I think with ease of availability will come a whole new crop of people trying illicit drugs. Some will be able to take a hit and never come back, most will be caught in the spiral.

 

[OCA]

Originally posted by dilloduck
Cmon champ----i'm waiting----your like a liberal-----bitch about things that you have no solution for.

Pot kettle black. Umm the thread is legalization, I say no. What else where you inferring I have no answer or "solution?????" to?

 

[dilloduck]

Originally posted by OCA
Pot kettle black. Umm the thread is legalization, I say no. What else where you inferring I have no answer or "solution?????" to?

If you are against legalization because it will create addicts and misery and your are for keeping other killer substances legal then your argument appears hypocritical. It has been posted that the war on drugs is causing problems. What are your solutions to these problems that arise directly from the war on drugs?

 

[OCA]

Originally posted by dilloduck
If you are against legalization because it will create addicts and misery and your are for keeping other killer substances legal then your argument appears hypocritical. It has been posted that the war on drugs is causing problems. What are your solutions to these problems that arise directly from the war on drugs?

What other killer substances do I want to keep legal? Cigarettes and alcohol? Gotta smoke a bunch of cigarettes to develop that dependence and gotta work pretty hard at becoming an alcoholic so no I don't consider them on the same par with a cocaine or heroin etc. etc. where you usually develop an almost unbreakable addiction after 1 or two doses.

The war on drugs? What problems arise directly from it? Some innocent deaths? Hey collateral damage, it happens, we are a fallable race us humans. Overcrowded prisons? You know they've instituted these 3 strikes law, after a couple of strikes if you are too much of a dumbfuck to stay straight then maybe you ought to be removed from society, one way or another........Build more prisons although I know thats not a popular stance but the other choice is to let these idiots run the streets, which is wiser?

 

[dilloduck]

Originally posted by OCA
What other killer substances do I want to keep legal? Cigarettes and alcohol? Gotta smoke a bunch of cigarettes to develop that dependence and gotta work pretty hard at becoming an alcoholic so no I don't consider them on the same par with a cocaine or heroin etc. etc. where you usually develop an almost unbreakable addiction after 1 or two doses.

The war on drugs? What problems arise directly from it? Some innocent deaths? Hey collateral damage, it happens, we are a fallable race us humans. Overcrowded prisons? You know they've instituted these 3 strikes law, after a couple of strikes if you are too much of a dumbfuck to stay straight then maybe you ought to be removed from society, one way or another........Build more prisons although I know thats not a popular stance but the other choice is to let these idiots run the streets, which is wiser?

You are ignorant to the addiction process. I understand your fear of these drugs because of your personal experience with your friend but please don't make the assumption or the claim that the same thing will happen to everyone.

You answer is removing people with addiction problems from society? That was your same answer to the "homosexual" problem. I guess you'll have a great time living on earth all by yourself when you "remove" everyone you disapprove of.

 

[OCA]

Originally posted by dilloduck
You are ignorant to the addiction process. I understand your fear of these drugs because of your personal experience with your friend but please don't make the assumption or the claim that the same thing will happen to everyone.

You answer is removing people with addiction problems from society? That was your same answer to the "homosexual" problem. I guess you'll have a great time living on earth all by yourself when you "remove" everyone you disapprove of.

You sure you aren't a liberal the way you stuff words into everyone's mouths?

Homosexuals, go back and read my views again, I said no marriage, no tax monies for their special interest groups but by all means have all the butt sex you want with your buddy.

3 strikes, how many chances should a criminal be given Dildo? 10, 20, 30? I mean you know this is the liberal line of thinking, you might wanna stop throwing that phrase around so lightly seeing as you are a closet liberal.

Addiction problems, is that the new catch phrase?

 

[dilloduck]

How many chances did you want your friend to have?

 

[OCA]

Originally posted by dilloduck
How many chances did you want your friend to have?

First of all let me tell you my, his parents and everyone else who knew him's opinion of rehab centers and addiction therapy and counseling: its a sham. Its a huge expensive fucking ripoff, he was in and out of those places so many fucking times it'll make your head spin. Didn't do a damn bit of good for him and by the stats which I used to know but i'll look up it looks like it doesn't do a damn bit of good for most people. Hell he said it was easier to get dope inside those joints than outside.

Fact was he burnt all his bridges, not even relatives in Montana was far enough away from the allure of the pipe. He stole from everybody, pissed on everybody and generally made you not want to be around him. I wish'd he'd been locked up but then I know him and he would not have been able to hack it inside, he would've died there too.

Facts are: these drugs you want legalized are far too dangerous to be leashed upon society legally and treatment is currently a sham and i'm not sure that there is a way to successfully treat an addict when the availability of drugs in America is everywhere but I do know that legalizing them doesn't help but only exasperates the situation.

 

[mattskramer]

Originally posted by Pale Rider
Your arguements are whacked out.

My comment was purely logical and removed from emotional and political rhetoric. I stand behind what I posted. Addiction (though I dislike that word. (I would replace it with "habitual decisions".)) are all relative and matters of degree. I confess that I used to be "addicted" to Burger King Whoppers and super-size French fries. I practically had to have my "fix" every weekday at lunch time (particularly when I was in the middle of a stressful day). After a few days of seeing my energy and health go down hill. I took careful control of myself, applied myself to hour-by-hour segments (focused on what I was doing to myself hour-by-hour), and physically kept myself from going to fast-food places. I quit "cold turkey". It was very difficult but I succeeded. People are ultimately responsible for the choices they make. We now have families suing McDonalds as if it forced people to eat its fattening food. With your attitude of having the government baby-sit people (even adults) where will it end? Perhaps we should outlaw cigarettes. They serve no useful purpose (except to allegedly provide temporary pleasure to the smoker) but they are hazardous to your health whether or not they are addictive.

And to respond to your force vs choice thought, I don't get the relevance there what that has got to do legalizing hard drugs, aside from the fact more people would be killing for their next fix with the increase in users if hard drugs were legal.

"Force VS Choice" is a major key to why some government actions are appropriate even though collateral damage may result (and why some government actions should not be accepted). Government should not be storming private homes of people who are not hurting anyone but themselves (much less destroying the lives of innocent people in the process). Yet it should go after people who, without our consent, are intent on doing us harm (even if collateral damage may result). If hard drugs were made legal, it does not follow that more people would be killing for their next fix. "Legal drugs would be inexpensive, so even addicts could support their habits with honest work, rather than by crime. Organized crime would be deprived of its profits." See http://www.lp.org/issues/relegalize.html


Hard drugs take control of a person. They are no longer able to make decisions after they're hooked. The NEED for their next fix makes that decision for them. So when they've spent all their money, lost their home, wife, family, and any dignity they might have once had, the only thing left for them to do is rob and kill for their next fix. It happens now, and it would happen MORE if hard drugs were legal.

Hard drugs take control of a person only if the person allows it to happen. People need oxygen. They don't NEED hard drugs. Again, in reply to your comments about how people lose everything and resort to killing - That need not be the case. Many people hit rock bottom before learning to focus on their actions, day-by-day and even hour-by-hour, and pick themselves up without resorting to violent crime. If/when hard drugs are legalized, prices will drop and there may even be less related crime.

As illogical as your arguements are, I would be hard pressed NOT to think you've already BEEN into hard drugs for some time. You don't seem to have a very cogent thought process, and that would also be a good reason for your wanting hard drugs legalized. So you wouldn't have the law breathing down your neck each time you go looking for them.

My thought processes are very very sound and logical. There is very very little inconsistency or intellectual dishonesty, if any. They often go beyond what is popular or PC but they are still logical. --- If I were to make a bad decision on something (legal or not) it would be my fault and I should be forced to suffer the consequences. I do not need government to tell me what I should or should not do to myself. I have my formal education, informal education from my parents, advice form friends and associates, reason and logic, and especially my limited financial resources and my conscious and self-esteem and dignity that will breathe down my neck and lead me in the right direction.

Your statement above in red has to be one the most outlandish things I've ever read. It has a taint of hypocricy, and is in stark contradiction in and of itself. But, it's par for the course from you. Not for or against, just sitting there on that fence trying to have it both ways somewhere out in lala land.

My statement in red is perfectly logical and is not contradictory. I'll explain by example. A married friend confided in me that he wanted to have an affair with one of his coworkers. He had developed a strong desire for the woman and he told me that she had a crush on him. He explained that he didn't like his marriage. His business did not have a specific rule against "office romances" and adultery is legal. I recommended that he not have the affair but instead have a heart-to-heart talk with his wife about his marital dissatisfaction. I also advised that he seek a transfer to a different department and even to a different building. People can encourage people to do the right thing and encourage them to not do the wrong thing while at the same time not advocating the legalization or criminalization of the behaviors in question.

 

[OCA]

This was the best I could do for treatment stats as relating to success and failure and really the only stat is from AA but it is quite telling about 12 step programs, A 5% RETENTION RATE! Thats isn't very good plus the stats on I believe it was 6(?) months and a year in AA are atrocious.

Matts if hard drugs or any drugs are made legal I can guarantee you nobody will hire anybody who has even a trace of it and believe me every fucking company and business no matter how small will immediately begin drug testing. We will have a whole new class of unemployed junkies and guess what that leads to?

I mean you said "even addicts could support their habits with honest work", fuck that! I wouldn't and nobody I know would hire a junkie no matter the situation.

 

[mattskramer]

Originally posted by OCA
Matts if hard drugs or any drugs are made legal I can guarantee you nobody will hire anybody who has even a trace of it and believe me every fucking company and business no matter how small will immediately begin drug testing. We will have a whole new class of unemployed junkies and guess what that leads to?

I mean you said "even addicts could support their habits with honest work", fuck that! I wouldn't and nobody I know would hire a junkie no matter the situation.

Good. It is all the more reason for one not to be a junkie. If businesses are going to drug-test and discriminate against junkies, it make all the more reason why people should not choose hard drugs, or to get themselves off drugs if they are "addicted". So, with the supposed (and debatable) increase in out-of-work junkies, it leaves all the more employment security for people who don't take drugs.

I think that you are attempting to imply that the increase in unemployed junkies would put a large strain on social services. I think that we already went over it. If we legalize hard drugs, we can them move the huge financial resources away from the vice departments, courts, and jails in regard to drugs. We can then apply the resources to rehabilitating or caring for those who really need help.