Elon Musk: Trump's tariffs are not a good idea

[task0778]

Elon Musk says he warned Trump against tariffs, which US manufacturers blame fora turn to more offshoring and diminishing American factory jobs.
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... American manufacturers are now linking Trump’s tariffs to the shrinking industry and tough labor cuts they’ve needed to make to keep their businesses going. It’s the opposite of Trump’s intentions when implementing the tariffs, which he claimed would be a catalyst for reshoring American factory jobs.

U.S. manufacturing contracted in November for the ninth consecutive month, according to the Institute for Supply Management (ISM) Manufacturing PMI report released on Monday, with pullbacks in new orders and supplier deliveries, as well as employment. Some manufacturing industry personnel surveyed attributed slowing business and tightening labor to the levies, even saying they’ve increased overseas production.

“We are starting to institute more permanent changes due to the tariff environment,” one survey respondent in the transportation equipment industry said, per the report. “This includes reduction of staff, new guidance to shareholders, and development of additional offshore manufacturing that would have otherwise been for U.S. export.”
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Recent jobs data has confirmed some manufacturers’ concerns. The U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics’ jobs report last month showed there were 6,000 fewer manufacturing jobs in October, despite nonfarm payrolls increasing by 119,000. The slip in factory roles have brought the tally of lost manufacturing jobs since Trump’s April tariff push to 59,000, according to the data.

Laura Ullrich, director of economic research at the Indeed Hiring Lab, told Fortune the shrinking manufacturing sector is, in part, a result of tariffs disproportionately hitting intermediate goods, which are products used in the process of creating a finished good. This can hike up production costs, forcing companies to slash headcount. Pantheon Macroeconomics analysts Samuel Tombs and Oliver Allen similarly said in September that shrinkingwage growth was a result of tariff-hit companies trying to maintain margins amid rising input costs.

Ullrich also noted trade uncertainty more broadly forces companies to think less about hiring and more about sourcing decisions and pricing.

Trump’s2025 tariffs to trigger fresh layoffs in 2026


IMHO, tariffs have always been a bad idea in the long run. You get an improved GDP number for awhile, but the economic downside eventually shows up and the tariffs are reduced or eliminated. I didn't like tariffs when the democrats did it a couple of decades ago and I don't like them now.

 

[Hafar1014]

Elon Musk says he warned Trump against tariffs, which US manufacturers blame fora turn to more offshoring and diminishing American factory jobs.
.
.
... American manufacturers are now linking Trump’s tariffs to the shrinking industry and tough labor cuts they’ve needed to make to keep their businesses going. It’s the opposite of Trump’s intentions when implementing the tariffs, which he claimed would be a catalyst for reshoring American factory jobs.

U.S. manufacturing contracted in November for the ninth consecutive month, according to the Institute for Supply Management (ISM) Manufacturing PMI report released on Monday, with pullbacks in new orders and supplier deliveries, as well as employment. Some manufacturing industry personnel surveyed attributed slowing business and tightening labor to the levies, even saying they’ve increased overseas production.

“We are starting to institute more permanent changes due to the tariff environment,” one survey respondent in the transportation equipment industry said, per the report. “This includes reduction of staff, new guidance to shareholders, and development of additional offshore manufacturing that would have otherwise been for U.S. export.”
.
.
Recent jobs data has confirmed some manufacturers’ concerns. The U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics’ jobs report last month showed there were 6,000 fewer manufacturing jobs in October, despite nonfarm payrolls increasing by 119,000. The slip in factory roles have brought the tally of lost manufacturing jobs since Trump’s April tariff push to 59,000, according to the data.

Laura Ullrich, director of economic research at the Indeed Hiring Lab, told Fortune the shrinking manufacturing sector is, in part, a result of tariffs disproportionately hitting intermediate goods, which are products used in the process of creating a finished good. This can hike up production costs, forcing companies to slash headcount. Pantheon Macroeconomics analysts Samuel Tombs and Oliver Allen similarly said in September that shrinkingwage growth was a result of tariff-hit companies trying to maintain margins amid rising input costs.

Ullrich also noted trade uncertainty more broadly forces companies to think less about hiring and more about sourcing decisions and pricing.

Trump’s2025 tariffs to trigger fresh layoffs in 2026


IMHO, tariffs have always been a bad idea in the long run. You get an improved GDP number for awhile, but the economic downside eventually shows up and the tariffs are reduced or eliminated. I didn't like tariffs when the democrats did it a couple of decades ago and I don't like them now.

Musk only cares abut his own interests. Tariffs are good for the economy. This is till the Biden economy its only been 11 months. Trumps reforms kick in on Jan 1st.

 

[shockedcanadian]

Elon Musk says he warned Trump against tariffs, which US manufacturers blame fora turn to more offshoring and diminishing American factory jobs.
.
.
... American manufacturers are now linking Trump’s tariffs to the shrinking industry and tough labor cuts they’ve needed to make to keep their businesses going. It’s the opposite of Trump’s intentions when implementing the tariffs, which he claimed would be a catalyst for reshoring American factory jobs.

U.S. manufacturing contracted in November for the ninth consecutive month, according to the Institute for Supply Management (ISM) Manufacturing PMI report released on Monday, with pullbacks in new orders and supplier deliveries, as well as employment. Some manufacturing industry personnel surveyed attributed slowing business and tightening labor to the levies, even saying they’ve increased overseas production.

“We are starting to institute more permanent changes due to the tariff environment,” one survey respondent in the transportation equipment industry said, per the report. “This includes reduction of staff, new guidance to shareholders, and development of additional offshore manufacturing that would have otherwise been for U.S. export.”
.
.
Recent jobs data has confirmed some manufacturers’ concerns. The U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics’ jobs report last month showed there were 6,000 fewer manufacturing jobs in October, despite nonfarm payrolls increasing by 119,000. The slip in factory roles have brought the tally of lost manufacturing jobs since Trump’s April tariff push to 59,000, according to the data.

Laura Ullrich, director of economic research at the Indeed Hiring Lab, told Fortune the shrinking manufacturing sector is, in part, a result of tariffs disproportionately hitting intermediate goods, which are products used in the process of creating a finished good. This can hike up production costs, forcing companies to slash headcount. Pantheon Macroeconomics analysts Samuel Tombs and Oliver Allen similarly said in September that shrinkingwage growth was a result of tariff-hit companies trying to maintain margins amid rising input costs.

Ullrich also noted trade uncertainty more broadly forces companies to think less about hiring and more about sourcing decisions and pricing.

Trump’s2025 tariffs to trigger fresh layoffs in 2026


IMHO, tariffs have always been a bad idea in the long run. You get an improved GDP number for awhile, but the economic downside eventually shows up and the tariffs are reduced or eliminated. I didn't like tariffs when the democrats did it a couple of decades ago and I don't like them now.

They are important when applied against violating nations. An equalizer of sorts.

If all of the world had as free a market as America has, admittingly less capitalist than in years past but regardless; the need for tariffs wouldn't be required because barriers wouldn't exist.

That's not the case. EU and China in particular have many barriers. Canada domestically manipulates as well and blocks equal access. This puts U.S companies at a major disadvantage. Take equal car access to the EU alone as an example.

China has a $1T trade surplus, the highest in the history of the world. They are cheating

 

[task0778]

They are important when applied against violating nations. An equalizer of sorts.

If all of the world had as free a market as America has, admittingly less capitalist than in years past but regardless; the need for tariffs wouldn't be requires because barriers wouldn't exist.

That's not the case. EU and China in particular have many barriers. Canada domestically manipulates as well and blocks equal access. This puts U.S companies at a major disadvantage. Take rqual car access to the EU alone as an example.

China has a $1T trade surplus, the highest in the history of the world. They are cheating

I understand that, but there are other measures that could be taken. Didja know that U.S. law subsidizes foreign investment in the United States by imposing much lower tax rates on foreign investors than American ones. And that subsidy gives an advantage to imported goods over home goods, as dollars earned by foreigners can be more profitably invested in the United States than dollars earned domestically.

A Better Tool to Counter China’s Unfair Trade Practices

End the tax advantage for Chinese investors in U.S. markets.

www.foreignaffairs.com

 

[shockedcanadian]

I understand that, but there are other measures that could be taken. Didja know that U.S. law subsidizes foreign investment in the United States by imposing much lower tax rates on foreign investors than American ones. And that subsidy gives an advantage to imported goods over home goods, as dollars earned by foreigners can be more profitably invested in the United States than dollars earned domestically.

You've lost 10s of thousands of factories though so clearly it hasn't been working. China broke the West and the values so many died for.

Someone has to take a stand. Short term pain for long term gain.

 

[Mac1958]

Not exactly a revelation from Musk.

Anyone who has a decent handle on macroeconomics and is not saturated in ideology knows that this has been absurd.

There were plenty of warnings.

 

[shockedcanadian]

Not exactly a revelation from Musk.

Anyone who has a decent handle on macroeconomics and is not saturated in ideology knows that this has been absurd.

There were plenty of warnings.

What is absurd is allowing China to have companies on the storied NYSE when they don't have to adhere to basic GAAP requirements.

What is absurd is punishing domestic companies for "climate damage" while happily celebrating the shipping of good paying middle class jobs to China where they have NO regulations on pollution.

The list is endless. China hurt America more than any single nation in history. From 40% of global economic activity to 22% in 30 years. This is what China did to America.

If you don't fight back and demand principles of civil liberties and human rights, America WILL become communist, not if...

 

[candycorn]

Elon Musk says he warned Trump against tariffs, which US manufacturers blame fora turn to more offshoring and diminishing American factory jobs.
.
.
... American manufacturers are now linking Trump’s tariffs to the shrinking industry and tough labor cuts they’ve needed to make to keep their businesses going. It’s the opposite of Trump’s intentions when implementing the tariffs, which he claimed would be a catalyst for reshoring American factory jobs.

U.S. manufacturing contracted in November for the ninth consecutive month, according to the Institute for Supply Management (ISM) Manufacturing PMI report released on Monday, with pullbacks in new orders and supplier deliveries, as well as employment. Some manufacturing industry personnel surveyed attributed slowing business and tightening labor to the levies, even saying they’ve increased overseas production.

“We are starting to institute more permanent changes due to the tariff environment,” one survey respondent in the transportation equipment industry said, per the report. “This includes reduction of staff, new guidance to shareholders, and development of additional offshore manufacturing that would have otherwise been for U.S. export.”
.
.
Recent jobs data has confirmed some manufacturers’ concerns. The U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics’ jobs report last month showed there were 6,000 fewer manufacturing jobs in October, despite nonfarm payrolls increasing by 119,000. The slip in factory roles have brought the tally of lost manufacturing jobs since Trump’s April tariff push to 59,000, according to the data.

Laura Ullrich, director of economic research at the Indeed Hiring Lab, told Fortune the shrinking manufacturing sector is, in part, a result of tariffs disproportionately hitting intermediate goods, which are products used in the process of creating a finished good. This can hike up production costs, forcing companies to slash headcount. Pantheon Macroeconomics analysts Samuel Tombs and Oliver Allen similarly said in September that shrinkingwage growth was a result of tariff-hit companies trying to maintain margins amid rising input costs.

Ullrich also noted trade uncertainty more broadly forces companies to think less about hiring and more about sourcing decisions and pricing.

Trump’s2025 tariffs to trigger fresh layoffs in 2026


IMHO, tariffs have always been a bad idea in the long run. You get an improved GDP number for awhile, but the economic downside eventually shows up and the tariffs are reduced or eliminated. I didn't like tariffs when the democrats did it a couple of decades ago and I don't like them now.

Now suddenly Musk will once again suddenly be a tool of the deep state.

 

[candycorn]

What is absurd is allowing China to have companies on the storied NYSE when they don't have to adhere to basic GAAP requirements.

What is absurd is punishing domestic companies for "climate damage" while happily celebrating the shipping of good paying middle class jobs to China where they have NO regulations on pollution.

The list is endless. China hurt America more than any single nation in history. From 40% of global economic activity to 22% in 30 years. This is what China did to America.

If you don't fight back and demand principles of civil liberties and human rights, America WILL become communist, not if...

Serious question.....

Did you just write down a bunch of stuff on index cards and decide to throw them all into a post and hope they made sense?

 

[task0778]

What is absurd is allowing China to have companies on the storied NYSE when they don't have to adhere to basic GAAP requirements.

What is absurd is punishing domestic companies for "climate damage" while happily celebrating the shipping of good paying middle class jobs to China where they have NO regulations on pollution.

The list is endless. China hurt America more than any single nation in history. From 40% of global economic activity to 22% in 30 years. This is what China did to America.

If you don't fight back and demand principles of civil liberties and human rights, America WILL become communist, not if...

I dunno about becoming a communist country, maybe or maybe not. But my perspective is that foreign exporters of stuff to the US will not pay for those tariffs, contrary to what Trump claims. US import businesses do, along with US consumers that eventually pay higher prices for the same things. They can try to pass the higher tariff costs back onto the foreign exporters, who can refuse to accept any new contracts at a lower price. What usually happens then is that US importers pass the higher tariff costs to the consumers; that hasn't happened so far, but eventually it will and that is when inflation begins to rise moreso than it is now. It has already been inching up very slowly, but we'll see if it begins to accelerate unless Trump backs off.

 

[shockedcanadian]

Serious question.....

Did you just write down a bunch of stuff on index cards and decide to throw them all into a post and hope they made sense?

Elaborate on your vicious attack on my typing.

Elaborate I say!

 

[candycorn]

I dunno about becoming a communist country, maybe or maybe not. But my perspective is that foreign exporters of stuff to the US will not pay for those tariffs, contrary to what Trump claims. US import businesses do, along with US consumers that eventually pay higher prices for the same things. They can try to pass the higher tariff costs back onto the foreign exporters, who can refuse to accept any new contracts at a lower price. What usually happens then is that US importers pass the higher tariff costs to the consumers; that hasn't happened so far, but eventually it will and that is when inflation begins to rise moreso than it is now. It has already been inching up very slowly, but we'll see if it begins to accelerate unless Trump backs off.

Dollar stores are starting to close due to the tariffs now.

 

[shockedcanadian]

Dollar stores are starting to close due to the tariffs now.

Imagine if every dollar store in America closed, that would cost China about a million jobs.

There is no way on G-ds green earth a dollar store closes due to tariffs. If so, they aren't run properly or the economics in the area in which they reside don't make sense.

This is the crossroads the West is at. Europe is already falling. Do you want America to also fall while Beijing tells you what to do?

 

[task0778]

Dollar stores are starting to close due to the tariffs now.

Actually the Dollar stores have been closing for a few years now, before Trump came along. It could partly be due to the tariffs Trump raised in his 1st administration that Biden did not change, but there many other factors involved such as crime, inflation since 2020, etc.

 

[task0778]

You've lost 10s of thousands of factories though so clearly it hasn't been working. China broke the West and the values so many died for.

Someone has to take a stand. Short term pain for long term gain.

I guess I wanna know when we start seeing the long term gain. So far it looks like we're going in the wrong direction, and I think there's more short term pain to come.

 

[Deplorable Yankee]

The Apocalyptic Shortage That Never Happened: Democrats' Tariff Doomsday Narrative Imploded | ZeroHedge

ZeroHedge - On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero

www.zerohedge.com

 

[Oddball]

I understand that, but there are other measures that could be taken. Didja know that U.S. law subsidizes foreign investment in the United States by imposing much lower tax rates on foreign investors than American ones. And that subsidy gives an advantage to imported goods over home goods, as dollars earned by foreigners can be more profitably invested in the United States than dollars earned domestically.

A Better Tool to Counter China’s Unfair Trade Practices

End the tax advantage for Chinese investors in U.S. markets.

www.foreignaffairs.com

The #1 reason wealthy people create offshore trusts to invest in their own country.

 

[task0778]

The #1 reason wealthy people create offshore trusts to invest in their own country.

Which means if our investment tax laws are changed to where foreign entities don't get a tax break over domestic investors, the total amount of investments made here would be reduced. If that were to happen, then I suppose foreign exporters to the US would be charging a higher price for their stuff. We'd buy less of their stuff due to the higher price, not much different from a tariff. Sounds like more inflation and a lower standard of living for those of us on the low side of the income ladder. Or did I miss something?