Dutch to set guidelines for euthanasia of babies

[Annie]

Yeah, you’re right…let em die in agony not matter how long it takes.

We are not goihng to agree, so I'm going to end off on this for the time being. I wonder though, why you resort to such rage on the topic? I've been clear on my position since the Shiavo mess, where we agreed on some points-especially concerning where the state and feds differ. Funny how on this and abortion, you see it differently.

Last point, your reaction makes it seem like abortion is a vote determiner for you. Interestingly enough, not one of my biggies. I would vote for Guiliani in a NY minute.

 

[Mr. P]

We are not goihng to agree, so I'm going to end off on this for the time being. I wonder though, why you resort to such rage on the topic? I've been clear on my position since the Shiavo mess, where we agreed on some points-especially concerning where the state and feds differ. Funny how on this and abortion, you see it differently.

Last point, your reaction makes it seem like abortion is a vote determiner for you. Interestingly enough, not one of my biggies. I would vote for Guiliani in a NY minute.

You’re probably correct, we may never agree. There is no rage on my part, I too have been clear since Shiavo, people need to mind their own business when it comes to lives of others, simple as that. You wanna talk slippery Slopes. Let the intrusions continue,
before ya know it your life will be a routine dictated by some group you never heard of. It may even include what color condom to use on Monday.

 

[Abbey Normal]

You’re probably correct, we may never agree. There is no rage on my part, I too have been clear since Shiavo, people need to mind their own business when it comes to lives of others, simple as that. You wanna talk slippery Slopes. Let the intrusions continue,
before ya know it your life will be a routine dictated by some group you never heard of. It may even include what color condom to use on Monday.

Just to lighten the mood, do people really have sex on Monday?

 

[MissileMan]

Just to lighten the mood, do people really have sex on Monday?

Only the non-married ones.

 

[Abbey Normal]

Only the non-married ones.

Phew. That's reassuring.

 

[MissileMan]

Phew. That's reassuring.

You neither?

 

[Mr. P]

Just to lighten the mood, do people really have sex on Monday?

I can't remember last Monday. I'll get back to ya tomorrow. (That is Monday isn't it?)

 

[archangel]

Just to lighten the mood, do people really have sex on Monday?

Good question....I'm free how about you?...Monday thru Sunday..when ya are retired what is the difference? I guess I have lost perspective on this one....LOL

 

[kurtsprincess]

Just to lighten the mood, do people really have sex on Monday?

Countin' on it!!!!!

 

[Mr. P]

Countin' on it!!!!!

Works for ME! What do ya think she'll say?

 

[manu1959]

Just to lighten the mood, do people really have sex on Monday?

yes.....but then i only have sex on days that end in y

 

[Powerman]

See, this is the kind of crap that comes from what most leftists see as the most enlightened country. They have legal hookers, legal pot, and now, legal infanticide. Yep, enlightened by the glow from the end of the joint.

Euthanasia!=infanticide

Not even close. But if you would like to read up about infanticide maybe you should read the story where God commands Saul to kill all of the Amalekite children including infants and unborn babies.

 

[Hobbit]

Euthanasia!=infanticide

Not even close. But if you would like to read up about infanticide maybe you should read the story where God commands Saul to kill all of the Amalekite children including infants and unborn babies.

infanticide is the killing of an infant. Euthenasia is equal to infanticide when you euthenise an infant, no matter how you want to dress it up.

As far as teh Amalekites, you must remember the world they live in. The Amalekites attacked Israel at every turn, and short of the total annihilation of their country, nothing would get the Amelikites to stop their rather opportunistic and persistant attacks upon Israel. Actions like this were common in that day and paled in comparison to the atrocities commited by other nations. They were even gentler than the Romans, who were considered far more civilized. When a city regained its independance from Rome and was retaken, the populace were not quickly dispatched by the sword. Instead, any members of the town who could be captured were crucified, which is probably the most painful execution method ever invented.

 

[Harmageddon]

Originally posted by Hobbit:
infanticide is the killing of an infant. Euthenasia is equal to infanticide when you euthenise an infant, no matter how you want to dress it up.

Yep, I agree.

And personally I don't think we will get anywhere if we keep on dragging bible quotes into the debate. Sure, there are some wise things in there, but then the writers didn't really seem to get their heads around the technological advancement thing humanity has been going through over the last 500 years.
And yey, the catholic church has now admitted that the bible is not the word of God, but rather the human interpretation of the word of God. An important difference. If some uber Imam would admit the same thing, we might get somewhere close to a civilized state of affairs even. But I'm drifting off.

So, as to the euthanasia of infants, I think the Dutch government has been right making this decision. The approach is not whether the result, a dead child, is ethically discussable, which isn't; but rather whether the reasons for euthanasia are discussable. And if you consider the reasons, there have to be some very good ones, obviously, since the result is simply dreadful.

You cannot just euthanize any baby.

That would be murder.

However, there are several circumstances that make it plausible to do just that, such as the examples stated in the first post of unrecoverable defects and agonizing pain. Some compassion for the mother in these situations would be nice, though. Anti euthanasia people seem to forget there are more than one human involved in these matters: the suffering infant and it's parents.

All in all, I think that guidelines for these things are a welcome addition to the void. They can be debated, and if we can reach a consensus as to when it is and when it isn't plausible to consider euthanasia, we've taken another step forwards. Closing your eyes to the discussion won't make it go away.

Yes, infanticide is a painful subject, but it's there.
You can either take responsibility and set out guidelines for it, or ignore the whole problem and keep up the level of suffering in the world.

Love thy neighbours, remember.

 

[MissileMan]

So, as to the euthanasia of infants, I think the Dutch government has been right making this decision. The approach is not whether the result, a dead child, is ethically discussable, which isn't; but rather whether the reasons for euthanasia are discussable. And if you consider the reasons, there have to be some very good ones, obviously, since the result is simply dreadful.

You cannot just euthanize any baby.

That would be murder.

However, there are several circumstances that make it plausible to do just that. When the mother is a teen herself for example. Although personally I would like some responsibility hammered into her head. Screwing around at that age whatever, but use a condom, idiot.

Other reasons may be the premature detection of birthdefects. . why wait another 6 months for a dead child to be delivered and go through hell for it, if it can be removed much more easy instead. Some compassion for the mother in these situations would be nice, though. Anti abortion people seem to forget there are two people involved in the abortion: a mother and an unborn child.

All in all, I think that guidelines for these things are a welcome addition to the void. They can be debated, and if we can reach a consensus as to when it is and when it isn't plausible to consider euthanasia, we've taken another step forwards. Closing your eyes to the discussion won't make it go away.

Yes, infanticide is a painful subject, but it's there.
You can either take responsibility and set out guidelines for it, or ignore the whole problem and keep up the level of suffering in the world.

Love thy neighbours, remember.

As has been pointed out in this thread several times already, abortion and euthanasia are 2 different things. You expressed circumstances that you believe would justify an abortion. What circumstances do you believe would justify euthanasia of a child?

 

[Harmageddon]

Originally posted by MissileMan:
As has been pointed out in this thread several times already, abortion and euthanasia are 2 different things. You expressed circumstances that you believe would justify an abortion. What circumstances do you believe would justify euthanasia of a child?

Sorry, my bad.
Changed the post, cheers for pointing it out.

I remain with my stand on the issue however: it would be wrong to euthanise children that suffer from things like down syndrome, or similar impairments, but considering children with severe defects, it would be extremely harsh to maintain them on life support systems just because it makes us feel good that we can keep them "alive".

These decisions are not made lightly and they are made for the benefit of the suffering child, not for the benefit of anyone else. Sure enough, a situation could arise in which that happens, but those situations happen with or without guidelines on the subject.