Dr Patrick Chavis

[Big D]

Seven years ago, Chavis became the toast of the media elite and the racial preference crowd when he was profiled lavishly by New York Times magazine writer Nicholas Lemann. Chavis, who made the cover of the magazine, was a black physician admitted to the University of California-Davis medical school under a special racial-preference quota.

http://www.townhall.com/columnists/michellemalkin/mm20020807.shtml

 

[William Joyce]

Allan Bakke, meanwhile, the white man who had to flippin' SUE his way into medical school, has a nice little practice going. These are the stories you won't hear from the media, because they're inconvenient to the whole "blacks are just like whites and are only oppressed because whites are evil" theme.

But in fact, they are not. Blacks have an average IQ that is 15 points lower than whites, and this is almost wholly the result of inheritance, not environmental factors. They also have numerous behavioral differences, including shorter time horizons and lack of impulse control. THAT is why they are so much more poor and crime-prone. NOT because white people are evil.

Well, I might be evil. But that's beside the point. And most white people are really pretty nice.

But you won't hear that from the media, either.

 

[mattskramer]

Originally posted by William Joyce
Blacks have an average IQ that is 15 points lower than whites, and this is almost wholly the result of inheritance, not environmental factors. They also have numerous behavioral differences, including shorter time horizons and lack of impulse control.

From where do you get the statistic and the reason for it? Please provide me with a link to a web site giving this information or even a reference.

 

[NewGuy]

Originally posted by mattskramer
From where do you get the statistic and the reason for it? Please provide me with a link to a web site giving this information or even a reference.

Prepare for a spiral into craziness.

 

[Big D]

Originally posted by mattskramer
From where do you get the statistic and the reason for it? Please provide me with a link to a web site giving this information or even a reference.

The biological factors underlying race differences in sports have consequences for educational achievement, crime and sexual behavior. In educational achievement and occupational success, Orientals average slightly ahead of Whites, who average substantially ahead of Blacks. On standardized IQ tests, hundreds of studies show this three-way pattern. Most IQ tests have an average score of 100, with a "normal" range from 85 to 115. Whites average from 100 to 103. Orientals in Asia and the U.S. tend to have higher scores, about 106, even though IQ tests were made for the Euro-American culture. Blacks in the U.S., the Caribbean, Britain and Africa average lower IQs-about 85. The lowest average IQs are found for sub-Saharan Africans-from 70 to 75.

The relation between brain size and intelligence has been shown by dozens of studies, including state-of-the-art magnetic resonance imaging. Orientals average 1 cubic inch more brain matter than Whites, and Whites average a very large 5 cubic inches more than Blacks. Since one cubic inch of brain matter contains millions of brain cells and hundreds of millions of nerve connections, brain size differences help to explain why the races differ in IQ.

http://www.lrainc.com/swtaboo/stalkers/jpr_insight.html

 

[pegwinn]

LOLOLOLOL

Oh wait, you really believe that stuff. Sorry, thought you were auditioning for comedy central.

Good Luck with that.

 

[mattskramer]

Wow. This might be true. I found some supporting research. I'll see if I can find some stuff to refute this.

http://www.harbornet.com/folks/theedrich/JP_Rushton/Race.htm

 

[William Joyce]

Originally posted by mattskramer
From where do you get the statistic and the reason for it? Please provide me with a link to a web site giving this information or even a reference.

Sure. It's all through The Bell Curve, published in 1994 by Murray and Herrnstein. The Bell Curve, in turn, cites studies dating back to WWI (Shuey's work) up 'til today. You can also find references in Michael Levin's "Why Race Matters," J. Phillippe Rushton's "Race, Evolution and Behavior," and "Race, Genetics and Society," by Glayde Whitney.

More detail, if you are interested:

Why Race Matters: Race Differences and What They Mean, by Michael Levin. "The main scientific evidence of black/white differences in intelligence is black and white performance on standardized intelligence tests. Competent authorities agree that, as measured by the Wechsler Adult Intelligence Scale, the Wechsler Intelligence Scale for Children, the Raven's Progressive Matrices, and similar instruments, the mean IQ of whites exceeds that of American blacks by about one standard deviation." Page 34.

"This difference was first observed during Army recruits during World War I, and has remained fairly constant." Page 34.

"The most throrough survey of the literature through 1966 is Shuey's The Testing of Negro Intelligence (1966), which reports 382 comparative studies involving 80 different tests administered to hundreds of thousands of black and white children, high school and college students, military personnel, civilian adults, deviates, and criminals. The average black score in these studies was a bit below 85 and the average white IQ a bit above 100, with the difference in the means in the various studies ranging from 12 to 18 points." Page 35.

"In other words, 88 percent of blacks -- and by definition 50 percent of whites -- score below the white mean." Page 35.

Race, Evolution & Behavior: A Life History Perspective, by J. Phillipe Rushton. "For example, Mervyn Skuy and his colleagues (2000) found South African secondary students (in South Africa) had IQ equivalents in the 70s range on several tests, including the Wechsler Intelligence Scale for Children-Revised (WISC-R), the Rey Auditory Verbal Learning Test, the Stroop Color Word Test, the Wisconsin Card Sorting Test, the Bender Gestalt Visual Motor Integration Test, the Rey Osterreith Complex Figure Test, the Train Making Test, the Spatial Memory Task, and various Drawing Tasks." Page 15.

For "cultural bias" debunkment, see Why Race Matters. For inheritiability of the above, see The Bell Curve.

 

[mattskramer]

Wow. I didn't think that race mattered. Then I was introduced to the notion that due to brain size, related to IQ, there significant racial differences that are shaped genetically rather than socially. Now I see stuff that refutes THIS claim. So much stuff! Okay. My opinion has shifted a tiny bit. Perhaps Blacks should be treated slightly differently by the state...until I find persuading information to the contrary.

Inequality by Design: Cracking the Bell Curve Myth by six members of the University of California, Berkeley, Department of Sociology does precisely what its title promises. Through a reanalysis of the data set used in the infamous Herrnstein and Murray book (see Examiner, Winter 1994-95), the authors refute the claim that inherited differences in intelligence cause inequality. Instead, they show that racial variations in achievement are the result of a society s inequality, not an unavoidable consequence of genes.

http://www.fairtest.org/examarts/winter97/bellcurv.htm

 

[rtwngAvngr]

So matt, if this is true, then you feel it justifies affirmative action? Racial discrimination is wrong, still. You already know some individuals are smarter than others. How does a POSSIBLE racial correlation change things, from the individual perspective?

Think about this matt. If you feel these stats being true justifies affirmative action, why aren't the liberals behind them?

 

[mattskramer]

Originally posted by rtwngAvngr
So matt, if this is true, then you feel it justifies affirmative action? Racial discrimination is wrong, still. You already know some individuals are smarter than others. How does a POSSIBLE racial correlation change things, from the individual perspective?

Think about this matt. If you feel these stats being true justifies affirmative action, why aren't the liberals behind them?

Liberals seem to want continual redistribution of opportunity for any reason. They support "affirmative action" for the continual inequality they see but they don't seem to care to evaluate the reason why there is inequality. If the inequality is due to society, I think that we have had enough reverse discrimination and preferential treatment toward Blacks long enough so that today they have the same chances as do Whites regardless of their distant past.

Yet, if Blacks are genetically intellectually inferior, then they should forever be treated differently. Would you treat a retarded person the same as you would an adult in mentally challenging activities?

I will state it again. If the difference is due to society, society has changed and there should no longer be affirmative action. If the difference is permanent due to genetics, there should forever be racial consideration.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

OK. Let's assume you eventually decide for the reasons stated above that AA is justified. The next time you're with your liberals friends, and they hear your an affirmative action supporting libertarian, are you going to be honest about the reason why?

 

[mattskramer]

Originally posted by rtwngAvngr
OK. Let's assume you eventually decide for the reasons stated above that AA is justified. The next time you're with your liberals friends, and they hear your an affirmative action supporting libertarian, are you going to be honest about the reason why?

Uhhh. Yep.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Originally posted by mattskramer
Uhhh. Yep.

You're going to say "because blacks are inferior as a group and need help?"

Will you film it for us? This I gotta see! Do you need a wheelbarrow for those nuts?

Actually, you're gonna need a protective cup, man.

 

[mattskramer]

Originally posted by rtwngAvngr
You're going to say "because blacks are inferior as a group and need help?"

Will you film it for us? This I gotta see! Do you need a wheelbarrow for those nuts?

Actually, you're gonna need a protective cup, man.

Okay. I see your point. I will be politically honest and above board. If the issue ever comes up, I will be careful about where I say it and how I say it. Based on some information I read (giving sources) Blacks, as a group, may have a smaller IQ based on brain size. Yet, (right now) I am reviewing information that may, in my opinion, dispute such a claim.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Originally posted by mattskramer
Okay. I see your point. I will be politically honest and above board. If the issue ever comes up, I will be careful about where I say it and how I say it. Based on some information I read (giving sources) Blacks, as a group, may have a smaller IQ based on brain size. Yet, (right now) I am reviewing information that may, in my opinion, dispute such a claim.

That's courageous. What will you say when they start in on their, all differences are due the evils of the white man? Will you let these lies be propagated unquestioned? Will you allow whites to be shamed on an institutional and social level to spare hurt feelings and the discomfort of touchy subjects?

 

[mattskramer]

Originally posted by rtwngAvngr
That's courageous. What will you say when they start in on their, all differences are due the evils of the white man? Will you let these lies be propagated unquestioned? Will you allow whites to be shamed on an institutional and social level to spare hurt feelings and the discomfort of touchy subjects?

I will say that through affirmative active action, other programs, and preferential treatment, the White man has made up for the history of evils it has supposedly done.

"Will you let these lies be propagated unquestioned?"

No.

"Will you allow whites to be shamed on an institutional and social level to spare hurt feelings and the discomfort of touchy subjects?"

No.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Originally posted by mattskramer
I will say that through affirmative active action, other programs, and preferential treatment, the White man has made up for the history of evils it has supposedly done.

The use of HAS MADE, would make me think AA would no longer be necessary. Right? If the alleged evils have been allegedy been "made up for", there's no need to continue AA. Isn't this good reasoning? Did you change positions?
Are you against it again?

 

[mattskramer]

Originally posted by rtwngAvngr
The use of HAS MADE, would make me think AA would no longer be necessary. Right? If the alleged evils have been allegedy been "made up for", there's no need to continue AA. Isn't this good reasoning? Did you change positions?
Are you against it again?

Based on information (and dispute of such information) all new to me concerning IQ differences supposedly based on genetics (brain size) I am undecided on the continuation of "AA". If the difference in IQ is merely a matter of society, I oppose such a continuation. If it is due to genetics, I may support its continuance.

 

[William Joyce]

Originally posted by rtwngAvngr
How does a POSSIBLE racial correlation change things, from the individual perspective?

RightWingAvenger, you are buying into the fallacy here that the individual is the only operative political unit. I don't think it is, and here's why.

First, I do think "the individual" is important. Individual thinking, acting, rights, etc. But the power of the group cannot be denied. Democrats are a group. Republicans are a group. Blacks are a group. Whites are a group. Men are a group. Women are a group. It goes on and on.

You may not like this, but it does serve some purposes, one of which is efficiency. We could, for instance, have laws for individuals. How would that go? We could write a whole set of statutes for each and every living person, perfectly tailored to him or her. But that would take WAY too much time. That's just for starters.

A society can function well, in my view, if the groups are compatible. Men and women are, for obvious reasons, compatible in this way. Blacks and whites, however, present great problems. If there is a single law on a given topic, it will be skewed one way or the other. The result will be less-targeted justice for one group or the other.

That is why I support some form of racial separatism. No, it wouldn't present perfection. But it could be better than what we have now. In fact, I think it would.