Doha Talks: Hamas shoots rockets at Tel-Aviv from the Humanitarian Corridors

[rylah]

Recent events have exposed the true nature of Hamas as they launch rocket attacks at Tel Aviv from a tent within a humanitarian corridor. This blatant disregard for human life, not only endangers Israeli civilians but also puts Gazan lives at risk by turning aid zones into war zones.

Video released by Hamas showing rockets launched
from a tent in the humanitarian zone:

​

As negotiations in Doha are about to begin, it's crucial to question the morality of making deals with an enemy that exploits humanitarian gestures for violent ends. Should we be negotiating with those who weaponize aid? How does this affect the broader implications of such deals?

These actions are not just tactical but strategic, aiming to manipulate international opinion while holding their own people hostage to their destructive agenda. This thread will delve into the moral, legal, and strategic implications of Hamas' actions, and what this means for Israel's response.

Aug. 15: Herzog says settler violence ‘certainly not the way of Torah and Judaism’

IDF says 17,000 terror operatives killed in Gaza since start of war * Netanyahu pressed to form Gaza inquiry to prevent ICC arrest warrants * Hostage talks in Doha to continue Friday

www.timesofisrael.com

IDF orders evacuation of Khan Younis neighborhood after rocket attacks

* * *

www.timesofisrael.com

​

 

[ReinyDays]

I voted "no, Hamas must go" ... why would Hamas negotiate in good faith if the end result include their annihilation? ...

Israel will come to the table ... and they will play the game ... the Jews here in the United States expect that of her ... and I do think Israel needs to be at peace with her legitimate neighbors ... Syria/Jordon/Egypt are sick of Hamas as well ...

I'm pro-Palestinian, and in my mind, that means anti-Hamas ... once the Saudis finish the Yemeni Genocide, we can move folks there ...

 

[rylah]

I voted "no, Hamas must go" ... why would Hamas negotiate in good faith if the end result include their annihilation? ...

Israel will come to the table ... and they will play the game ... the Jews here in the United States expect that of her ... and I do think Israel needs to be at peace with her legitimate neighbors ... Syria/Jordon/Egypt are sick of Hamas as well ...

I'm pro-Palestinian, and in my mind, that means anti-Hamas ... once the Saudis finish the Yemeni Genocide, we can move folks there ...

Thanks for voting.

It's refreshing to communicate with someone identifying as pro-Palestinian,
but opposing Hamas, and having a clear vision of cooperation.
I'm more used to the radical unison echo-chamber.

Would be interested to hear Your perception of
the situation of the broader Iran-Hamas axis.

How should Israel address these threats,
go all-out war, strike unproportionate?

Or disrupt enemy lines waiting tight,
for the right circumstance, for a
quality strike as in Iraq reactor?

Given they blame You anyway,
were You a leader, do You
prefer immediate war, or,
contain civil war of a
neighbor state?

Because the war is against a single country,
and there's a psychological contest over
the future of the Arab next generation-
Israeli way or the Shia way, Sunnis
make decisions as we speak.

 

[Shusha]

Because the war is against a single country,
and there's a psychological contest over
the future of the Arab next generation-
Israeli way or the Shia way, Sunnis
make decisions as we speak.

I think this is spot on. Israel may be a spark, but the real war is with Iran and everyone knows it right now. Arab states may not be saying it out loud, but I'm certain they are saying it quietly. (And some are saying it out loud. Both Jordan and Egypt declared that they would not allow their airspace to be used against Israel.)

Netanyahu has been ahead of the game working with Arab states. The question is: are we there yet? Personally, I think we are mostly there. If Israel and Iran get into it, I don't think the relevant Arab states will act with Iran against Israel. But is neutrality where we want them to be when Israel takes on Iran? Or do we wait a little longer to cement some allies that will actively side with Israel against Iran. And will we have enough of them?

 

[rylah]

I think this is spot on. Israel may be a spark, but the real war is with Iran and everyone knows it right now. Arab states may not be saying it out loud, but I'm certain they are saying it quietly. (And some are saying it out loud. Both Jordan and Egypt declared that they would not allow their airspace to be used against Israel.)

Netanyahu has been ahead of the game working with Arab states. The question is: are we there yet? Personally, I think we are mostly there. If Israel and Iran get into it, I don't think the relevant Arab states will act with Iran against Israel. But is neutrality where we want them to be when Israel takes on Iran? Or do we wait a little longer to cement some allies that will actively side with Israel against Iran. And will we have enough of them?

Thanks for Your contribution.

It’s clear that securing active support from Arab states is crucial for Israel’s long-term strategy. Israel’s actions must be calculated not just in confronting Hamas, but in shaping broader regional alliances, particularly with the increasing threat from Iran.

This leads to a critical consideration: How can Israel continue to assert its strategic patience and strength while addressing the immediate moral challenges posed by negotiating with Hamas?
Balancing these priorities is essential as we navigate this complex geopolitical landscape.

 

[rylah]

'You started the war!': presenter of the Egyptian channel 10 expressed anger at Hamas official Musa Abu Marzouk, who blames Cairo for not doing enough end the war​

A presenter on the Egyptian Channel 10 harshly attacked senior Hamas official Musa Abu Marzouk this week, after the latter said that Egypt is not doing enough to end the war.

'Mr. Musa Abu Marzouk who stayed in Cairo and lived there, and had a house in Cairo.
I tell him: shame on you. How can he say that Egypt can stop the war?', he said.

He also said: 'Egypt pays more than a billion dollars a month.
Egypt pays 600 million dollars from the Suez Canal just because of the war crisis.'

The presenter added angrily: 'Who started the war? You started the war. Hamas started the war
without considering the opinion of the Palestinian people, the Palestinian Authority or Egypt.'

​

 

[rylah]

Should Hamas Talks Fail, US Plans Direct Offensive​

on Smotrich, Ben-Gvir, Maybe Netanyahu​

If the negotiations with Hamas fail this time as well, the Americans will be faced with a dilemma of how to proceed, when the chances of a deal are so slim and the Democratic Party convention is starting next week. Make no mistake about it, this was never about the suffering civilians in Gaza or, alternatively, the remaining living Israeli hostages who have not been murdered yet. This has always been about winning the White House and gliding problem-free into the January 20, 2025 inauguration.

​

Read more -

Should Hamas Talks Fail, US Plans Direct Offensive on Smotrich, Ben Gvir, Maybe Netanyahu

If the negotiations with Hamas fail this time as well, the Americans will be faced with a dilemma of how to proceed, but it will involve blaming...

www.jewishpress.com

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

Recent events have exposed the true nature of Hamas as they launch rocket attacks at Tel Aviv from a tent within a humanitarian corridor. This blatant disregard for human life, not only endangers Israeli civilians but also puts Gazan lives at risk by turning aid zones into war zones.

Video released by Hamas showing rockets launched
from a tent in the humanitarian zone:

​

As negotiations in Doha are about to begin, it's crucial to question the morality of making deals with an enemy that exploits humanitarian gestures for violent ends. Should we be negotiating with those who weaponize aid? How does this affect the broader implications of such deals?

These actions are not just tactical but strategic, aiming to manipulate international opinion while holding their own people hostage to their destructive agenda. This thread will delve into the moral, legal, and strategic implications of Hamas' actions, and what this means for Israel's response.

Aug. 15: Herzog says settler violence ‘certainly not the way of Torah and Judaism’

IDF says 17,000 terror operatives killed in Gaza since start of war * Netanyahu pressed to form Gaza inquiry to prevent ICC arrest warrants * Hostage talks in Doha to continue Friday

www.timesofisrael.com

IDF orders evacuation of Khan Younis neighborhood after rocket attacks

* * *

www.timesofisrael.com

​

Never Negotiate Out of Fear; Always Force Your Enemies to Negotiate Out of Fear

 

[toomuchtime_]

I voted "no, Hamas must go" ... why would Hamas negotiate in good faith if the end result include their annihilation? ...

Israel will come to the table ... and they will play the game ... the Jews here in the United States expect that of her ... and I do think Israel needs to be at peace with her legitimate neighbors ... Syria/Jordon/Egypt are sick of Hamas as well ...

I'm pro-Palestinian, and in my mind, that means anti-Hamas ... once the Saudis finish the Yemeni Genocide, we can move folks there ...

It makes no sense to say you are pro Palestinian but anti Hamas since the overwhelming majority of Palestinians support Hamas' war against Israel. For this reason, at this time and for the foreseeable future there is no possibility of a negotiated peace between Israel and the Palestinians.

This is the context in which the present negotiations are taking place. Hamas is seeking an agreement in which in exchange for the hostages, dead and alive, Israel will completely withdraw from Gaza and allow Hamas to remain in control and Israel is seeking an agreement in which the hostages will be released but the war will continue until Hamas can no longer make war on Israel or govern Gaza.

Clearly, there is no possible agreement that would satisfy both sides, still I would favor continuing negotiations alongside a vigorous military campaign in the hope some of the hostages may yet be saved by offering Hamas members a soft landing somewhere outside of Gaza or the West Bank.

 

[ReinyDays]

Thanks for voting.

It's refreshing to communicate with someone identifying as pro-Palestinian,
but opposing Hamas, and having a clear vision of cooperation.
I'm more used to the radical unison echo-chamber.

Would be interested to hear Your perception of
the situation of the broader Iran-Hamas axis.

How should Israel address these threats,
go all-out war, strike unproportionate?

Or disrupt enemy lines waiting tight,
for the right circumstance, for a
quality strike as in Iraq reactor?

Given they blame You anyway,
were You a leader, do You
prefer immediate war, or,
contain civil war of a
neighbor state?

Because the war is against a single country,
and there's a psychological contest over
the future of the Arab next generation-
Israeli way or the Shia way, Sunnis
make decisions as we speak.

How should Israel address these threats ... and that's a question I've pondered since the Yom Kippur War ... as a child I thought how these Palestinians were being treated was awful ... Black September flags in Munich ... over the years it became clear to me this problem had to be solved by the Palestinians, not the Jews ...

I know exactly one person in Israel ... and she's strictly a Facebook friend ... if she's between boyfriends, we get a rocket-by-rocket account of the activities there ... I was horrified, if this was happening in San Diego, Yuma, El Paso, San Antonio, New Orleans ... the US Army would be going in leveling them drug cartel positions, where ever they might be ... yeah, Israel has a right to fight back, we certainly would ...

What replaces Hamas if Gazans won't accept Fatah ... not that Fatah are my heroes or anything, but that's the closest we have to any kind of civil authority willing to take on the task of rebuilding? ... maybe we could dredge up some Ottomans to take over, run the place with a whip ... at some point here, brutal authoritarianism will solve the immediate problems ...

=====

Half of all Gazans are children ... what does science say about such a condition? ... all these deaths Hamas is reporting, well there's that many births as well ... folks donating to the Palestinians cause pays for all this [obscene rabbit reference] ... that is not sustainable ...

 

[ReinyDays]

It makes no sense to say you are pro Palestinian but anti Hamas since the overwhelming majority of Palestinians support Hamas' war against Israel. For this reason, at this time and for the foreseeable future there is no possibility of a negotiated peace between Israel and the Palestinians.

This is the context in which the present negotiations are taking place. Hamas is seeking an agreement in which in exchange for the hostages, dead and alive, Israel will completely withdraw from Gaza and allow Hamas to remain in control and Israel is seeking an agreement in which the hostages will be released but the war will continue until Hamas can no longer make war on Israel or govern Gaza.

Clearly, there is no possible agreement that would satisfy both sides, still I would favor continuing negotiations alongside a vigorous military campaign in the hope some of the hostages may yet be saved by offering Hamas members a soft landing somewhere outside of Gaza or the West Bank.

It's a Christian thing ... hate the sin but love the sinner ... who wouldn't be heartbroken looking over that fence and seeing the horrible moral poverty ... look how Saudis cut the heads off women for, you know, driving a car ... but I understand the problem ... so many Palestinians want to kill Jews and will fully support anyone who will ... just because they're misguided doesn't mean they don't deserve mercy ... especially from the likes of me ...

... nothing the Ottomans couldn't fix in a few generations ...

 

[rylah]

Never Negotiate Out of Fear; Always Force Your Enemies to Negotiate Out of Fear

Absolutely. Hamas is cornered, and it shows. Their desperate moves signal fear, not strength. As you rightly emphasized, 'Never Negotiate Out of Fear; Always Force Your Enemies to Negotiate Out of Fear.' They know their time is running out. Perhaps it's time we turned up the heat. For each day the hostages remain captive, we take territory—unconditionally. This strategy isn't just about reclaiming land but forcing them to realize the cost of their games.

Victory belongs to those who make the stakes unbearable for the enemy.

 

[rylah]

It makes no sense to say you are pro Palestinian but anti Hamas since the overwhelming majority of Palestinians support Hamas' war against Israel. For this reason, at this time and for the foreseeable future there is no possibility of a negotiated peace between Israel and the Palestinians.

This is the context in which the present negotiations are taking place. Hamas is seeking an agreement in which in exchange for the hostages, dead and alive, Israel will completely withdraw from Gaza and allow Hamas to remain in control and Israel is seeking an agreement in which the hostages will be released but the war will continue until Hamas can no longer make war on Israel or govern Gaza.

Clearly, there is no possible agreement that would satisfy both sides, still I would favor continuing negotiations alongside a vigorous military campaign in the hope some of the hostages may yet be saved by offering Hamas members a soft landing somewhere outside of Gaza or the West Bank.

You raise a crucial point about negotiations - the apparently irreconcilable goals on both sides.

But what if the negotiation process itself became a pressure tactic?

The 'Courage Forum,' representing families of hostages like Kfir and Ariel Bibas, has proposed a bold strategy: for every day the hostages remain, Israel claims territory. It’s a calculated move that could force Hamas into a corner, making them choose between a humiliating loss or unconditional surrender. This isn’t about compromise but creating an unbearable reality for those who play with innocent lives.

Imagine the psychological impact of them losing ground they so desperately cling to.
Wouldn’t that shift the balance of power in Israel's favor?

​

 

[rylah]

How should Israel address these threats ... and that's a question I've pondered since the Yom Kippur War ... as a child I thought how these Palestinians were being treated was awful ... Black September flags in Munich ... over the years it became clear to me this problem had to be solved by the Palestinians, not the Jews ...

I know exactly one person in Israel ... and she's strictly a Facebook friend ... if she's between boyfriends, we get a rocket-by-rocket account of the activities there ... I was horrified, if this was happening in San Diego, Yuma, El Paso, San Antonio, New Orleans ... the US Army would be going in leveling them drug cartel positions, where ever they might be ... yeah, Israel has a right to fight back, we certainly would ...

What replaces Hamas if Gazans won't accept Fatah ... not that Fatah are my heroes or anything, but that's the closest we have to any kind of civil authority willing to take on the task of rebuilding? ... maybe we could dredge up some Ottomans to take over, run the place with a whip ... at some point here, brutal authoritarianism will solve the immediate problems ...

=====

Half of all Gazans are children ... what does science say about such a condition? ... all these deaths Hamas is reporting, well there's that many births as well ... folks donating to the Palestinians cause pays for all this [obscene rabbit reference] ... that is not sustainable ...

The idea of replacing one terror regime with another is indeed troubling. Allowing Fatah to take over after Hamas would mean rewarding a Holocaust denier with more power- a complete betrayal of all those who were brutally murdered, during and as result of October 7th.

And let’s not forget the oil-rich Arab states, which have the resources to sustain this cycle of violence. If Hamas truly valued the lives of Palestinians, especially the children, why do they consistently use them as human shields and launch attacks from civilian areas? How does this align with the moral responsibility of any leadership, even one that claims to be fighting for their people?

Mercy and compassion, while noble, must be tempered with justice. In this case, justice means ensuring those responsible for the violence face consequences. True compassion sometimes requires us to be unyielding against those who exploit it.

 

[gtopa1]

What does one say; eliminate Hamas root and branch and deradicalise Gaza. If they can do it to whole nations (Germany, Japan) then do it in Gaza.

Greg

 

[rylah]

'Islamic Jihad' and Hamas leaders fleeing​

The first to take part in this exodus was Ismail Haniyeh, Hamas’ political leader abroad, who left his home in the Al-Shati Refugee Camp for the extravagant hotels in Doha, the capital of Qatar.

​

Haniyeh justified his departure due to his candidacy for the leadership of Hamas - but the election ended a few months ago. He pressured Egyptian authorities to allow his wife and children to leave the Strip through the Rafah crossing, and they are currently living with him in opulence in Qatar, said the report.

Another key figure is Khalil al-Hayya, who until very recently served as the deputy of Hamas' leader in Gaza, Yahya Sinwar. He left the enclave several months ago after receiving a promotion as the group’s "head of Relations for Arab and Muslim Countries."

Just like Haniyeh, Hayyah managed to get his family out of Gaza and move to Doha.

Others on the list include Salah al-Bardawil, a senior member of the group who obtained permission to leave Gaza with his family for one year; Hamas' spokesperson Sami Abu Zuhri and veteran diplomatic advisor and Haniyeh’s personal deputy Taher al-Nunu.

Doha is not the only destination, with Turkey becoming the new home of Hamas top figure Fathi Hamad.

In addition, two of the Islamic Jihad’s leaders in the Gaza Strip - Nafaz Azzam and Muhammad al-Hindi, also secretly left Gaza some time ago. Azzam is in Syria and probably also in Beirut, while al-Hindi has made Istanbul his new home.

​

 

[gtopa1]

'Islamic Jihad' and Hamas leaders fleeing​

The first to take part in this exodus was Ismail Haniyeh, Hamas’ political leader abroad, who left his home in the Al-Shati Refugee Camp for the extravagant hotels in Doha, the capital of Qatar.

​

Haniyeh justified his departure due to his candidacy for the leadership of Hamas - but the election ended a few months ago. He pressured Egyptian authorities to allow his wife and children to leave the Strip through the Rafah crossing, and they are currently living with him in opulence in Qatar, said the report.

Another key figure is Khalil al-Hayya, who until very recently served as the deputy of Hamas' leader in Gaza, Yahya Sinwar. He left the enclave several months ago after receiving a promotion as the group’s "head of Relations for Arab and Muslim Countries."

Just like Haniyeh, Hayyah managed to get his family out of Gaza and move to Doha.

Others on the list include Salah al-Bardawil, a senior member of the group who obtained permission to leave Gaza with his family for one year; Hamas' spokesperson Sami Abu Zuhri and veteran diplomatic advisor and Haniyeh’s personal deputy Taher al-Nunu.

Doha is not the only destination, with Turkey becoming the new home of Hamas top figure Fathi Hamad.

In addition, two of the Islamic Jihad’s leaders in the Gaza Strip - Nafaz Azzam and Muhammad al-Hindi, also secretly left Gaza some time ago. Azzam is in Syria and probably also in Beirut, while al-Hindi has made Istanbul his new home.

​

Patience and time; time and patience.

Greg

 

[rylah]

Patience and time; time and patience.

Greg

Ironically, that's exactly what Hamas thought was their strength.
A central concept in a Bedouin society crossing deserts.

Now they say, PM Netanyahu's plan for the 'day after war',
is a decade-long military control, those still alive now
among Hamas command can try to negotiate
sparing themselves by releasing hostages.

In the meantime each day is a funeral
for each Hamas prisoner released to
Gaza in previous negotiations.

 

[gtopa1]

Ironically, that's exactly what Hamas thought was their strength.
A central concept in a Bedouin society crossing deserts.

Now they say, PM Netanyahu's plan for the 'day after war',
is a decade-long military control, those still alive now
among Hamas command can try to negotiate
sparing themselves by releasing hostages.

In the meantime each day is a funeral
for each Hamas prisoner released to
Gaza in previous negotiations.

I am not with the "sparing them" mob; maybe only so that they can be eliminated later at a less public time. I've seen it too often; from the 60s to the present. "Negotiate" means the Pals only maneuver to strike a killer blow later. I don't think Bibi will allow that move again.

Greg

 

[rylah]

I am not with the "sparing them" mob; maybe only so that they can be eliminated later at a less public time. I've seen it too often; from the 60s to the present. "Negotiate" means the Pals only maneuver to strike a killer blow later. I don't think Bibi will allow that move again.

Greg

Yes, I'm with You, when Mosab Hassan asked whether Sinwar should be captured or killed, with respect to the platform I've responded that my answer probably wouldn't fit community rules.

And I've opened a thread dealing specifically with those moral questions.

However after years of participating in political discourse, I've learned
exactly as You said, that patience and time is key in understanding
Israeli leaders. If anything this war has clarified many questions
about the odds against Israeli center-right, and the true
essence of the alliances and opposing interests
we have to navigate through for the
religious-Zionist leaders to stand.

I know I'm getting beyond the
subject, but main notion here,
is the deep changes within
the Israeli society that the
war media is avoiding.

Democrats have to thank it's PM Netanyahu,
because if it was Ben-Gvir or Smotrich,
they can talk to the Wailing Wall.