Does this make any sense?

[JakeStarkey]

If the parents do their job, I assure you the schools will do what they are supposed to, because the parents are going to be in the middle of it: taking responsibility for themselves as parents, and ensuring the school personnel and resources 'best practices' are being done.

 

[Douger]

No, parents are not the not the answer. As a nation, we have to take education seriously and commit the resources. If we don't, the future is going to be pretty bleak.

Ya reckon ?
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gn7cJjxmIgE&feature=related[/ame]

 

[midcan5]

It makes sense when the world you create is one of the haves and the have nots. When inequality is so drastic and obvious, we move as a nation into third world status. That has happened since Reagan and it continues this week with immoral tax policy. People need to get used to this national freefall. the 20 percent who voted in, these rich politicians without souls, brought you this world, get used to it till the next collapse and the next gnashing of teeth.

From review Link below:

"Here's what you don't see: the four out of five charters that are no better, on average, than traditional neighborhood public schools (and are sometimes much worse); charter school teachers, like those at the Green Dot schools in Los Angeles, who are unionized and like it that way; and noncharter neighborhood public schools, like PS 83 in East Harlem and the George Hall Elementary School in Mobile, Alabama, that are nationally recognized for successfully educating poor children.

You also don't learn that in the Finnish education system, much cited in the film as the best in the world, teachers are—gasp!—unionized and granted tenure, and families benefit from a cradle-to-grave social welfare system that includes universal daycare, preschool and healthcare, all of which are proven to help children achieve better results at school." Grading 'Waiting for Superman' | The Nation

This sums up the effect of inequality:

http://www.usmessageboard.com/politics/145275-its-only-about-getting-reelected.html


The Evidence | The Equality Trust


http://www.usmessageboard.com/educa...ew-of-waiting-for-superman-2.html#post3065163


"Something is profoundly wrong with the way we live today. For thirty years we have made a virtue out of the pursuit of material self-interest: indeed, this very pursuit now constitutes whatever remains of our sense of collective purpose. We know what things cost but have no idea what they are worth. We no longer ask of a judicial ruling or a legislative act: is it good? Is it fair? Is it just? Is it right? Will it help bring about a better society or a better world? Those used to be the political questions, even if they invited no easy answers. We must learn once again to pose them." Tony Judt 'Ill Fares the Land'

 

[Mr. Shaman]

In Obama's news conference he stressed the importance of providing the education America needs to compete in the 21st century. This comes on the news that US students ranked 14th in reading, 17th in science, 25th in math. South Korea, Finland. Singapore, China and Canada are not only kicking our ass in the trade war but are insuring their future success by better educating their kids.

In order to reduce budgets a number of states are:
. Cutting AP (Advanced Placement) classes. These are the classes that provide advanced education in Math, Science, Economics, and Languages, to our brightest students.
. Class sizes are rising throughout the country.
. College tuition is rising. The tuition at USC this year is over $40,000 bringing the cost of a 4 year education to over $200,000. How many American families can afford this?

If America's future depends on how well we train our kids to compete in tomorrow's world, we are in big trouble.

Education is a long-term investment.....and, when (all-of-a-sudden) did Americans ever really give-a-shit about long-term-investments? I digress....we used-to.....pre-1980.

You'd think a highly-educated citizenry would be a matter of national-pride, and (obviously) a matter of national-security, but....ever since those Greed-Is-Good/Kill-Or-BE-Killed (financially) Reagan Years....it's much-more-hip (presently) to be concentrated on SHORT-term-profits!!!

Historically, this is hardly a new-scenario. In "conservatives'"-eyes, some people are (merely) more-deserving of an education, than others; an old American-tradition.​

3. So why was there not more class conflict over these gaps in wealth and power?

a. Poorer whites hoped to become planters and assumed they could with hard work, despite evidence to the contrary.

b. White leaders played the race card--told poor whites they may be poor but at least they weren't black.

 

[daveman]

Last time we were on top of the education pile the top tax braket was in the 80s to 90s

Correlation does not imply causation. Education started going downhill when we taught kids that their feelings are more important than their test scores.

Speaking of correlation, I suppose you have a scientific study to back up your bullshit?? LMAO!!

I have personal observation. Your refusal to accept it is immaterial.

 

[daveman]

Maybe we should face the reality of the situation blatantly evident on this thread.

American children are just ignorant fucks, and the people who should know why are too ignorant at this point in time, are too stupid to figure it out. Kind of like Intellectual regression of the human species in America. Apparently we are even too fucking dumb to ask for help from people who do know.

The people who "know" got us into the situation we're in now.

 

[Skull Pilot]

We spend more per pupil than most if not all of the other countries that are kicking our asses. It has nothing to do with income tax rates and everything to do with the attitudes and philosophy of the people in charge of our so called education system.

teachers' unions fight to keep shitty teachers in their tenured positions, we spend way too much on administration, our standards suck because no one is allowed to fail.

Face it folks we are now paying the piper for grading on a curve.

 

[pete]

Want to improve education? Simple. Don't need an increase in budget or salaries, don't need a decrease in class size. The parents make it happen. If they don't, I don't care who says what, the scores will not remain competitive with the rest of the world. Education started going downhill when parents stopped putting their boots up their kids' asses for not striving their utmost.

I cant agree more ... and to add think back when there was at least one parent home and family values were higher ... oh wait that was when were were doing well.
Then came the dumb down of standards so everyone can have a chance while the smart kids grew bored. I used to get "bertha" quite often in school as well as the ruler and never slammed teachers up against the chalk board or pulled a weapon on them. If I had I would be in big trouble and possible juvenile detention. Teachers what more and more and more when education is going down it seems they along with parents are not doing their part along with the education department passing kids after they stay back once even when they dont deserve it so their confidence (in what) is not low.

Im not a saint, but the boot molded me well and Im quite successful with less government in my life.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Correlation does not imply causation. Education started going downhill when we taught kids that their feelings are more important than their test scores.

Speaking of correlation, I suppose you have a scientific study to back up your bullshit?? LMAO!!

I have personal observation. Your refusal to accept it is immaterial.

Your claim of anecdotal observation is not only immaterial, daveman, it is laughable.

 

[Mr. Shaman]

Maybe we should face the reality of the situation blatantly evident on this thread.

American children are just ignorant fucks, and the people who should know why are too ignorant at this point in time, are too stupid to figure it out. Kind of like Intellectual regression of the human species in America. Apparently we are even too fucking dumb to ask for help from people who do know.

The people who "know" got us into the situation we're in now.

No doubt......

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f2iHksmF7m4[/ame]

....and, they "know" how to take care o' #1!!!!​

February 20, 2009​

"News that the Justice Department has filed a lawsuit against Swiss banking giant UBS is just the latest chapter in the curious case of Phil Gramm. Just one day after UBS agreed to pay a $780 million criminal fine and admitted to conspiring to defraud the IRS, the DOJ demanded access to 52,000 accounts as part of its broad tax evasion probe. Which is more than just a little ironic. After all, before he became a UBS vice-chairman in 2002, then Senator Phil Gramm helped lead the 1990's Republican war to gut the Internal Revenue Service."

 

[editec]

I was a latchkey kid when being a latchkey kid wasn't the norm.

Both my parents typically both had a full time job AND a part time job.

I was also a very poor student right up through 12th grade.

But, thanks to the fact that parents were willing to work so hard to keep us living in a neighborhood where the wealthy lived, I still got a very superior education.

My grade didn't reflect what I was learning, of course, because I wasn't willing to work hard to prove that I was learning anything.

It wasn't until college that my parents sacrifices paid off.


But here's my point....if I'd gone to the school on the wrong side of town, instead of with the scions of my town, I would NOT have gotten that superior education.

The failings of our educational system are many.

Trying to pin this highly complex social outcome on one cause is foolish.

There are still PLENTY of school systems in this nation that are churning out good students.

And if you correlate student outcomes to average incomes of their families, you will find the same STRONG corrleation.

Wealthier communities both provide better educational opportunities AND are lucky enough to be teaching students whose families VALUE education.

Those two factors are, I think, the most important factors that lead to outcome. They are not the only factors involved in statistical educational outcomes, but they are the MOST OBVIOUS and easiest to see statistically.

So if we want better educational outcomes for our children?

Don't make the schools richer...help make those FAMILIES from which they draw their students richer.

 

[daveman]

Ummm...we're discussing education, not the economy, Shaman.

 

[daveman]

Don't make the schools richer...help make those FAMILIES from which they draw their students richer.

What's stopping your from donating your own money?

 

[JakeStarkey]

daveman, you are part of the social compact. You don't get to drop out, and your responsibilities are defined by societal expectations. You just can't be Shane riding off into the sunset.

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

Last time we were on top of the education pile the top tax braket was in the 80s to 90s

Completely irrelevant.

 

[daveman]

daveman, you are part of the social compact. You don't get to drop out, and your responsibilities are defined by societal expectations. You just can't be Shane riding off into the sunset.

What's stopping you from donating your own money?

 

[Flopper]

If the parents do their job, I assure you the schools will do what they are supposed to, because the parents are going to be in the middle of it: taking responsibility for themselves as parents, and ensuring the school personnel and resources 'best practices' are being done.

About all most parents can do is to encourage their kids to do well in school and see they do their home work.

If we going to be leaders in 21st century, it's go take a lot more than parents telling Johnny to do his home work. We going to have to have better trained teachers and lot more of them. Classes sizes need to be reduced. Kids are going to have spend a lot more time in classrooms and schools have to be more completive.

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

About all most parents can do is to encourage their kids to do well in school and see they do their home work.

No, what parents need to be doing is taking time to go to school board meetings and get more involved with their children's education to make sure the schools are actually teaching them something other than useless crap.

We going to have to have better trained teachers and lot more of them. Classes sizes need to be reduced.

There is no correlation between smaller class sizes and better education.

Kids are going to have spend a lot more time in classrooms and schools have to be more completive.

Because 30 to 35 hours a week isn't enough already? What we need to do is change the whole educational structure and move away from this foundation of a liberal arts education that pushes everyone towards college. Finland consistently gets ranked the highest in education almost every year and kids don't go to school there until age 7 and have hardly any homework at all.

The last thing we need to do is subject children to spending more time in a useless learning environment.

 

[JakeStarkey]

If the parents do their job, I assure you the schools will do what they are supposed to, because the parents are going to be in the middle of it: taking responsibility for themselves as parents, and ensuring the school personnel and resources 'best practices' are being done.

About all most parents can do is to encourage their kids to do well in school and see they do their home work.

If we going to be leaders in 21st century, it's go take a lot more than parents telling Johnny to do his home work. We going to have to have better trained teachers and lot more of them. Classes sizes need to be reduced. Kids are going to have spend a lot more time in classrooms and schools have to be more completive.

Dead wrong, flopper. Read Taz's comments above. He is right on. Kids as a group do not do well in school in proportion do parents who are not as involved.

 

[Skull Pilot]

If the parents do their job, I assure you the schools will do what they are supposed to, because the parents are going to be in the middle of it: taking responsibility for themselves as parents, and ensuring the school personnel and resources 'best practices' are being done.

About all most parents can do is to encourage their kids to do well in school and see they do their home work.

If we going to be leaders in 21st century, it's go take a lot more than parents telling Johnny to do his home work. We going to have to have better trained teachers and lot more of them. Classes sizes need to be reduced. Kids are going to have spend a lot more time in classrooms and schools have to be more completive.

more is not better.

How about we flunk kids who don't learn the material? How about we make kids repeat grades even if it means we have 16 year old fifth graders?

You either learn a subject or you don't The concept really is quite simple. If you learn you proceed if you don't learn you fail.