Document confirms World Zionist Organization allocates land to settlers in Jordan val

[Roudy]

Says who? Records show about 250,000 to 300,000 in what is today Israel, West Bank, and Gaza. And most of the Gazans are Egyptians. Are you including Jordan aka Arab Palestine?

Estimates of the Palestinian Refugee flight of 1948 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

numbers range from 700,000 to 900,000.

going down to 300,000 is like assholes who say only 300,000 Jews died in the Holocaust.

Which includes the so called Palestinians in Jordan. Does it include the 2 million Palestinians who settled back in Israel as Israeli citizens? No it doesn't. Seemed like there were very little "qualifiers" in being a Palestinian at the time.

Oh look at what your favorite "Noam Chomsky" said about the number from the same link you provided, and there's other ones in the same range:

300,000 by May, 1948 according to Noam Chomsky pp. 131–132 Understanding Power: The Indispensable Chomsky [28]

360,000 in September, 1948, according to the Progress Report of the United Nations Mediator on Palestine published by UN Mediator Count Folke Bernadotte, September 16, 1948. (U.N. General Assembly Official Records, 3rd Session, Supplement No. 11, Document A/648) [note 3]

So which is it? No one knows. You know why? The whole concept of the Arab Palestinian is vague because there were Arab Muslims by that name pre 1900's. So naturally, the number can be severely inflated, depending.

 

[Roudy]

People have o history of hating Jews? Ha ha ha ha.
Review the history of the last 2000 years, you will find religious based hatred as the number killer of human beings.

Can't read to well, can you asshole?

Japanese, Koreans, Chinese, Indians, Native Americans.
they have no history of hating Jews.
and yet many of them hate the shit out of Israel and Israelis, due to how they behave.

You reap what you sow, ZioNazi.

1. Zionazi is a Proxy antisemitic term.
Most/The Great majority of Jews are Zionists in that they support Israel's existence if Not all it policies.
Even Jews wanting a retreat to the 1967 Borders are "zionists".

2. Koreans, ie, Revere the Jews.
Someone tell your compadre Holston that Far many more/Multiples more Koreans have read and studied the Talmud than Jews.
Why?


The Korean-Talmud Love Affair
Reports of the Talmud being a national classic in S. Korea have been floating around for years, but it’s now official: Students must study Talmud.
By Hillel Fendel -- 3/28/2011

Reports of the Talmud being a national classic in South Korea have been floating around for several years, but it’s now Official: The country’s ambassador to Israel, Ma Young-Sam, told the “Culture Today” TV show that Talmud study is now a mandatory part of the country’s school curriculum.

In addition, it is said, almost every home in South Korea boasts a Korean version of the Talmud, and mothers commonly teach it to their children, who call it the "Light of Knowledge."

Why? "We were very curious about the high academic achievements of the Jews," Young-Sam explained, according to a Ynet report. "Jews have a high percentage of Nobel laureates in all fields - literature, science and economics. This is a remarkable achievement. We tried to understand: What is the secret of the Jewish people? How are they, more than other people, able to reach those impressive accomplishments? Why are Jews so intelligent? The conclusion we arrived at is that one of your secrets is that you study the Talmud…
We believe that if we teach our children Talmud, they will also become Geniuses. This is what stands behind the rationale of introducing Talmud study to our school curriculum."

"I, for example, have two sets of the Talmud,” the ambassador said. “The one my wife bought me, and the second was a gift from my mother."

He also praised the Talmud and the Jewish tradition it represents for its family values, respect for adults, and respect for education in general.

Korean Times, Ten Years Ago
Nearly ten years ago, the Korea Times reported: “Interestingly, there are at least two different books currently sitting on Korean best-seller shelves that purport to explain the Jewish Talmud. The popularity of these books initially came as a surprise. But Koreans aren’t converting to Judaism. They read those books because Jews have gained a reputation for hard work and success, two things Koreans relate to well.”

Reports of Korean schoolchildren reading the Talmud – or at least stories thereof – have also been known for several years. One American teacher in South Korea related that in 2005, his elementary school students told him that as children, they had ALL read the Talmud, which they called the "Light of Knowledge." When asked if they had also read the Koran, they Burst into Laughter, saying, "Of course Not, that’s the Muslim book.”

SURPRISE!
I Love this debate stuff.

`

Another anti Semitic Canard gets shot down.

 

[Roudy]

It is a Militarized Zone, granted. I would not want to be there when the shit hits the fan. Seems like an Instant Karma thing from where I sit. The land was taken by the Government without consent, payment, or compensation, or due process. It is being currently used by private individuals without the permission of the legal owners. I would not look at is a borrowed land. Show me where Righteousness has a place in this equation. I don't see it. Show the due process.

The land was not "taken", nor was it part of any Arab state. It was used to attack Israel by four Arab nations (with the assistance of their Palestinian brethren), in order to destroy Israel. Israel then occupied the area after the Arabs suffered a humiliating defeat. What would the Arabs have had Israel suffered a defeat? Surely there wouldn't be talk of anything other than slaughtering the remaining Jews that are alive.

IF there is any returning of land to the defeated aggressors, it should be based on a negotiated and acceptable settlement to both sides, under conditions where a peaceful resolution can be reached. Those conditions as of the last 40 years just haven't been provided by the Palestinians.

It's still private land. The dust settled long ago, there. Either return it, or compensate for fairly assessed current value , plus usury. If it was your land at stake here, I would support you in this, too. There are issues where you need to look to God, for direction. Do the right thing.

I agree and appreciate your point of view. But that's not how things went down. There was a war in 1967, an act of aggression by many Arab nations, who used those same exact lands as the launchpad for the invasion and eventual destruction of Israel. These Arab land owners were told to clear out of the area and cooperate so the Arab armies can invade and attack Israel properly. Once Israel was destroyed, they get their land back and of course loot Jewish property.

Things didn't turn out as planned. So naturally, there will be a preference to allow usage of conquered territory to other Israelis, as opposed to Arabs, which as the article indicated, are a proven security threat.

That said, the fact that an Israeli newspaper has shed on this, and it is now on the table by Israelis themselves as to what to do about it, tells that that they do have a conscience, unlike their enemies and those that wish them destroyed. Here's the due process you were taking about:

"The coordinator of government activities in the territories, Maj. Gen. Eitan Dangot, has instructed that all Palestinians who request compensation for the lands they cannot farm should be compensated by the Civil Administration."

 

[docmauser1]

that's funny, cause I could have sworn that Israel is a western-style democracy, that has shared & common values with the USA. you know, like justice, freedom, liberty, equality, and Due Process!!!!!!

That's what palistanians should be demanding of their ruling fatah/hamas juntas, of course.

 

[docmauser1]

It's still private land. The dust settled long ago, there. Either return it, or compensate for fairly assessed current value , plus usury. If it was your land at stake here, I would support you in this, too. There are issues where you need to look to God, for direction. Do the right thing.

Has anyone, claiming that, seen palistanian land deeds, or is just recycling that palistanian agitprop?

 

[docmauser1]

Perhaps people (not necessarily you) should take an honest and unbiased look at this particular case - without trying to pile on all the typical crap to distract from this specific situation - and ask themselves, would this be considered land theft in any other situation?

Palistanian settlers should stop thinking they have an exclusive right to what is Judea and Samaria and not some goddamn -stan. Basically, the international community should do itself a favor and dispense with being an example to the einsteinian definition of insanity with its peace-state-palistan drivel and undertake an international program of humanitarian resettlement of palistanians and integration of their brethren residing in other states. That'll be cool, of course.

Is it a wonder that Israel is less liked in World Polls than N. Korea and Iran...steal their land and kick them out...Just what the Nazis did. Its hard to believe that some Jews think this way.

This emotionally-disturbed leftist drivel is a typical distraction from a fact that the UNRWA hasn't fulfilled its task of resettling and reintegrating palistanians in other lands and that "local" palistanians are being made to get a fully disfunctional basket-case of a state foisted on them, of course.

 

[Coyote]

Palistanian settlers should stop thinking they have an exclusive right to what is Judea and Samaria and not some goddamn -stan. Basically, the international community should do itself a favor and dispense with being an example to the einsteinian definition of insanity with its peace-state-palistan drivel and undertake an international program of humanitarian resettlement of palistanians and integration of their brethren residing in other states. That'll be cool, of course.

Is it a wonder that Israel is less liked in World Polls than N. Korea and Iran...steal their land and kick them out...Just what the Nazis did. Its hard to believe that some Jews think this way.

This emotionally-disturbed leftist drivel is a typical distraction from a fact that the UNRWA hasn't fulfilled its task of resettling and reintegrating palistanians in other lands and that "local" palistanians are being made to get a fully disfunctional basket-case of a state foisted on them, of course.

"Local" Palestinians have no desire to be forced out of their homeland any more than the "Local" Jews do.

Ethnic cleansing is never a supportable option.

 

[Coyote]

Intense, et al,

In cases such as these, in conflicts that have lasted this long, the first casualty is righteousness.

Hoffstra, et al,

Did you actually read the story? This is not about "racism."


(COMMENT)

The Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP), were not forbidden to farm based on "race."



The HoAP lost there farming rights near the border because they were found untrustworthy, and assisting infiltrators. Any other country would have done the same thing.

This was done based on military security interests; not racism.

Most Respectfully,
R

It is a Militarized Zone, granted. I would not want to be there when the shit hits the fan. Seems like an Instant Karma thing from where I sit. The land was taken by the Government without consent, payment, or compensation, or due process. It is being currently used by private individuals without the permission of the legal owners. I would not look at is a borrowed land. Show me where Righteousness has a place in this equation. I don't see it. Show the due process.

(COMMENT)

There is no "due process" in the foreign (Middle Eastern) concept. There are only consequences.

• INFILTRATOR

Meaning:

Someone who takes up a position surreptitiously for the purpose of espionage
Hypernyms ("infiltrator" is a kind of...):
spy; undercover agent [(military) a secret agent hired by a state to obtain information about its enemies or by a business to obtain industrial secrets from competitors]​

(g) If two or more persons conspire to violate any of the foregoing provisions of this section, and one or more of such persons do any act to effect the object of the conspiracy, each of the parties to such conspiracy shall be subject to the punishment provided for the offense which is the object of such conspiracy.
(h)

(1) Any person convicted of a violation of this section shall forfeit to the United States, irrespective of any provision of State law, any property constituting, or derived from, any proceeds the person obtained, directly or indirectly, from any foreign government, or any faction or party or military or naval force within a foreign country, whether recognized or unrecognized by the United States, as the result of such violation. For the purposes of this subsection, the term “State” includes a State of the United States, the District of Columbia, and any commonwealth, territory, or possession of the United States.

(2) The court, in imposing sentence on a defendant for a conviction of a violation of this section, shall order that the defendant forfeit to the United States all property described in paragraph (1) of this subsection.​

Some countries just shoot you, while others just throw you in jail and forget about you. However, some countries, like the US, have specific penalties.

I don't know the specifics of the case cited. But the penalty does not seem too unreasonable. Especially given the scope and nature of some infiltrators, in a region known for terrorism.

Most Respectfully,
R

A penalty of 50 years worth of farming and revenue lost with no reassessment in the interim is not unreasonable? The fact that they state they will not initiate any action to remove the tenant farmers and return the lands or provide compensation is not unreasonable? Seriously Rocco?

 

[Roudy]

And when will there be talk of "reparations" for the native ancient Jews of Hebron who were massacred and wiped out by Arabs in 1929? And the 1940, 50's and 60's ethnic cleansing of over 900,000 Jews who had lived in Muslim countries hundreds if not thousands of years?

Those don't count.

 

[RoccoR]

Coyote; et al,

Seriously, --- reasonableness is a matter of perspective.

A penalty of 50 years worth of farming and revenue lost with no reassessment in the interim is not unreasonable? The fact that they state they will not initiate any action to remove the tenant farmers and return the lands or provide compensation is not unreasonable? Seriously Rocco?

(COMMENT)

Stories, such as this, are written for their shock value. They are a stimulus for dialog. Those that hold sympathies for the Arab Palestinian will be reinforced, while those that hold an opposing view will have the opposite reaction.

Again, it is with all probability, that such claims on private property issues will ultimately be adjudicated by an impartial arbitration committee with the authority to address the damages and losses claimed by the victims of conflict (both sides); as part of a negotiated Comprehensive Agreement or Framework between the Israeli Authorities and the Palestinian Authorities.

The "penalty of 50 years" is a consequence of the conflict duration. It only seems unreasonable because of the unusual length in the period of the conflict; a consequence in the delay of a negotiated settlement with a Comprehensive Agreement or Framework. Typically, such adjudications occur on the cessation of hostilities between the parties. However, by pre-ordained political posturing, "initiatives, and so-called peaceful solutions and international conferences, are in contradiction to the principles of the Islamic Resistance Movement." Thus, no lasting negotiated settlement with a Comprehensive Agreement or Framework could be established. This had the effect of appearing to be (to those holding sympathies for the Arab Palestinian) an extended penalty period, as opposed to a calculated pathway to peace.

There will probably be provisions of compensation, monetary or otherwise, to victims of human rights abuses during the conflict. At some point, a body will be established and sanctioned to investigate and report on patterns of human rights abuses occurring over a period of time. And, the rehabilitation process by which Palestinian civilians (non-combatants and those with no history of actively supporting enemy elements) will benefit from a post-conflict economic package; which include education, training and compensation packages. This too, is held in abeyance pending a Comprehensive Agreement or Framework.

Yes, any conflict which lasts more than half a century, has unusual consequences; for both sides. But this duration is attributed to the political leadership and environment. Yes, it will have many adverse effects on the general populations of both sides. But the duration is artificially induced by the political objectives. It could have ended at any time, and a post-conflict Comprehensive Agreement or Framework established. Neither side was ready. Thus the appearance of an extended penalty.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[RoccoR]

Roudy, et al,

Reparations, compensations, restitution, and incentive distributions are all part of the comprehensive agreement.

And when will there be talk of "reparations" for the native ancient Jews of Hebron who were massacred and wiped out by Arabs in 1929? And the 1940, 50's and 60's ethnic cleansing of over 900,000 Jews who had lived in Muslim countries hundreds if not thousands of years?

Those don't count.

(COMMENT)

There are few dialogs that are more emotionally sensitive and negatively charged than the talks related to reparations, compensations, restitution, and incentive distributions; especially in a conflict of this duration, and where one side or the other claims any and all asymmetric measures as justified. This is why, after WWI, such negotiations where chaired by disinterested parties. Such negotiations have to be addressed will a very extreme clinical and objective view which is difficult to maintain.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[Coyote]

And when will there be talk of "reparations" for the native ancient Jews of Hebron who were massacred and wiped out by Arabs in 1929? And the 1940, 50's and 60's ethnic cleansing of over 900,000 Jews who had lived in Muslim countries hundreds if not thousands of years?

Those don't count.

Reparations are only possible when there are living people with the documented legal claim to the land. It's ridiculous to go back thousands of years.

As far as reparations more recently - talk about it. Why aren't you?

 

[Coyote]

Coyote; et al,

Seriously, --- reasonableness is a matter of perspective.

A penalty of 50 years worth of farming and revenue lost with no reassessment in the interim is not unreasonable? The fact that they state they will not initiate any action to remove the tenant farmers and return the lands or provide compensation is not unreasonable? Seriously Rocco?

(COMMENT)

Stories, such as this, are written for their shock value. They are a stimulus for dialog. Those that hold sympathies for the Arab Palestinian will be reinforced, while those that hold an opposing view will have the opposite reaction.

Again, it is with all probability, that such claims on private property issues will ultimately be adjudicated by an impartial arbitration committee with the authority to address the damages and losses claimed by the victims of conflict (both sides); as part of a negotiated Comprehensive Agreement or Framework between the Israeli Authorities and the Palestinian Authorities.

The "penalty of 50 years" is a consequence of the conflict duration. It only seems unreasonable because of the unusual length in the period of the conflict; a consequence in the delay of a negotiated settlement with a Comprehensive Agreement or Framework. Typically, such adjudications occur on the cessation of hostilities between the parties. However, by pre-ordained political posturing, "initiatives, and so-called peaceful solutions and international conferences, are in contradiction to the principles of the Islamic Resistance Movement." Thus, no lasting negotiated settlement with a Comprehensive Agreement or Framework could be established. This had the effect of appearing to be (to those holding sympathies for the Arab Palestinian) an extended penalty period, as opposed to a calculated pathway to peace.

There will probably be provisions of compensation, monetary or otherwise, to victims of human rights abuses during the conflict. At some point, a body will be established and sanctioned to investigate and report on patterns of human rights abuses occurring over a period of time. And, the rehabilitation process by which Palestinian civilians (non-combatants and those with no history of actively supporting enemy elements) will benefit from a post-conflict economic package; which include education, training and compensation packages. This too, is held in abeyance pending a Comprehensive Agreement or Framework.

Yes, any conflict which lasts more than half a century, has unusual consequences; for both sides. But this duration is attributed to the political leadership and environment. Yes, it will have many adverse effects on the general populations of both sides. But the duration is artificially induced by the political objectives. It could have ended at any time, and a post-conflict Comprehensive Agreement or Framework established. Neither side was ready. Thus the appearance of an extended penalty.

Most Respectfully,
R

I see you point Rocco, but I'm not sure that I agree. The fact that they don't even want to initiate anything and that they've allowed settlers to farm it (and they reasons they are letting them farm it) don't really support your points.

 

[ForeverYoung436]

And when will there be talk of "reparations" for the native ancient Jews of Hebron who were massacred and wiped out by Arabs in 1929? And the 1940, 50's and 60's ethnic cleansing of over 900,000 Jews who had lived in Muslim countries hundreds if not thousands of years?

Those don't count.

Not only Hebron, but also the Jewish Quarter of the Old City and Sefad.

 

[RoccoR]

Coyote; et al,

On of the first casualties of a very extended conflict is "fairness" and "justice."

I see you point Rocco, but I'm not sure that I agree. The fact that they don't even want to initiate anything and that they've allowed settlers to farm it (and they reasons they are letting them farm it) don't really support your points.

(COMMENT)

In a half century, the people of both sides of the conflict lose their objectivity and sympathy towards what is fair. Each side begins to lose sight of the other as anything more than a hostile enemy, attempting to suppress their freedoms. They don't really see them as people any more.

It is a punitive judgment. No question. Maybe, someday, it will be set right. But until then, it is important for both sides to remember that their are consequence to face for every action. Some of them are more harsh than others; with some unexpectedly more harsh then one might have thought.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

Coyote; et al,

On of the first casualties of a very extended conflict is "fairness" and "justice."

I see you point Rocco, but I'm not sure that I agree. The fact that they don't even want to initiate anything and that they've allowed settlers to farm it (and they reasons they are letting them farm it) don't really support your points.

(COMMENT)

In a half century, the people of both sides of the conflict lose their objectivity and sympathy towards what is fair. Each side begins to lose sight of the other as anything more than a hostile enemy, attempting to suppress their freedoms. They don't really see them as people any more.

It is a punitive judgment. No question. Maybe, someday, it will be set right. But until then, it is important for both sides to remember that their are consequence to face for every action. Some of them are more harsh than others; with some unexpectedly more harsh then one might have thought.

Most Respectfully,
R

Not to mention the truth. There is very little of that in this conflict.

Each side begins to lose sight of the other as anything more than a hostile enemy, attempting to suppress their freedoms. They don't really see them as people any more.

That is why Hamas calls for an extended period of truce. It would be easier to formulate a peace agreement at a later date if they no longer view each other as a threat.

 

[ForeverYoung436]

Coyote; et al,

On of the first casualties of a very extended conflict is "fairness" and "justice."

I see you point Rocco, but I'm not sure that I agree. The fact that they don't even want to initiate anything and that they've allowed settlers to farm it (and they reasons they are letting them farm it) don't really support your points.

(COMMENT)

In a half century, the people of both sides of the conflict lose their objectivity and sympathy towards what is fair. Each side begins to lose sight of the other as anything more than a hostile enemy, attempting to suppress their freedoms. They don't really see them as people any more.

It is a punitive judgment. No question. Maybe, someday, it will be set right. But until then, it is important for both sides to remember that their are consequence to face for every action. Some of them are more harsh than others; with some unexpectedly more harsh then one might have thought.

Most Respectfully,
R

Not to mention the truth. There is very little of that in this conflict.

Each side begins to lose sight of the other as anything more than a hostile enemy, attempting to suppress their freedoms. They don't really see them as people any more.

That is why Hamas calls for an extended period of truce. It would be easier to formulate a peace agreement at a later date if they no longer view each other as a threat.

I wouldn't trust a truce with those masked fanatic Hamas bastards, who deny Israel's existence. Let's hope the talks work out.

 

[RoccoR]

et al,

It will take the patience of the Gods and the courage of an Archangel.

Coyote; et al,

On of the first casualties of a very extended conflict is "fairness" and "justice."


(COMMENT)

In a half century, the people of both sides of the conflict lose their objectivity and sympathy towards what is fair. Each side begins to lose sight of the other as anything more than a hostile enemy, attempting to suppress their freedoms. They don't really see them as people any more.

It is a punitive judgment. No question. Maybe, someday, it will be set right. But until then, it is important for both sides to remember that their are consequence to face for every action. Some of them are more harsh than others; with some unexpectedly more harsh then one might have thought.

Most Respectfully,
R

Not to mention the truth. There is very little of that in this conflict.

Each side begins to lose sight of the other as anything more than a hostile enemy, attempting to suppress their freedoms. They don't really see them as people any more.

That is why Hamas calls for an extended period of truce. It would be easier to formulate a peace agreement at a later date if they no longer view each other as a threat.

I wouldn't trust a truce with those masked fanatic Hamas bastards, who deny Israel's existence. Let's hope the talks work out.

(COMMENT)

Trust is not required. Brief in the cause and the process of peace is the path.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[Hoffstra]

The story itself, cites the farmer-infiltrator connection. That is a "security issue."

Any country would have taken action; even the US.

You are reading all kinds of accusations into it. You are convinced that Israel did something wrong. That some poor Palestinian was deprived of his property. You don't even pretend to give an objective view....

we know for a fact that Jewish settlers are farming someone else's land, for free.

we know for a fact that Israel has a long history of confiscating Arab private property for "security purposes" and then allowing Jewish settlers to move in and take the land for farms and communities, without any compensation to the true owners.

and you think this is all kosher.

 

[Hoffstra]

Now tell us why Palestinians are hated? Here's a clue. This is why they're hated...

Israelis were seen celebrating the attacks on the World Trade Center, from across the river in New Jersey.