Doctors Without Borders Enraged Over 'Deliberate' Kunduz Hos

[waltky]

Drawdown needs to be altered in Afghanistan...

General: US Must Take Blame for Hospital Strike, Alter Afghan Drawdown
Oct 06, 2015 | The U.S. must take the major blame for the deadly airstrike on the Kunduz hospital, Army Gen. John Campbell said Tuesday in testimony that also made a strong case for President Obama to change his plan to withdraw U.S. forces from Afghanistan by the end of 2016. "Yes, sir," Campbell replied when asked directly by Sen. Angus King, I-Maine, if it was his "professional judgment" that Obama should revise the plan.

Earlier in his testimony to the Senate Armed Services Committee, Campbell said that "Based on conditions on the ground, I do believe we have to provide our senior leadership (with) options different than the current plan we are going with," Campbell said. On the Oct. 3 airstrike in Kunduz which killed at least 22, Campbell said that "to be clear, the decision to provide aerial fires was a U.S. decision made within the U.S. chain of command" and a Doctors without Borders hospital "was mistakenly struck." "We would never intentionally target a protected medical facility," said Campbell, the commander of U.S. and coalition forces in Afghanistan.

However, a U.S. Special Forces unit on the ground in Kunduz called in the airstrike when requested by Afghan troops, and an Air Force Special Operations AC-130 gunship conducted the attack early last Saturday morning that Doctors Without Borders said lasted more than an hour, Campbell said. "Even though the Afghans requested that (air) support, it still has to go through a rigorous U.S. procedure to enable fires to go on the ground," Campbell said. Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., the SASC chairman, asked if the Special Forces unit on the ground had a Joint Terminal Attack Controller, or JTAC, with them to call in the airstrike. Campbell said a Special Forces unit, which is supposed to be trained in close air support, was "in close vicinity that was talking to the aircraft that delivered those fires."

Campbell pledged a thorough investigation of the incident and accountability for any wrongdoing. He said he expected to report preliminary results within 30 days of an Article 15-6 fact-finding investigation of the tragedy now being conducted by Army Brig. Gen. Richard C. Kim. In a statement, Jason Cone, executive director in the U.S. of Doctors Without Borders (Medicins Sans Frontieres, or MSF) said that Campbell's testimony "is just the latest in a long list of confusing accounts from the U.S. military about what happened in Kunduz on Saturday." "They are now back to talking about a ‘mistake' – a mistake that lasted for more than an hour, despite the fact that the location of the hospital was well known to them and that they were informed during the airstrike that it was a hospital being hit." "All this confusion just underlines once again the crucial need for an independent investigation into how a major hospital, full of patients and MSF staff, could be repeatedly bombed," Cone said.

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See also:

Afghanistan Says Troops Hold Kunduz Square, Calm Returning
Oct 07, 2015 -- Afghan troops have regained control of the main square in Kunduz, a strategic northern city briefly seized by Taliban insurgents last week that has been the scene of intense fighting, officials said Wednesday.

During the fight to retake the city, a U.S. airstrike destroyed a hospital run by Doctors Without Borders, killing at least 22 people. The international charity on Wednesday called for an independent fact-finding mission to determine whether the strike violated the Geneva Conventions. A spokesman for President Ashraf Ghani said some "scattered elements of the enemy" remain in residential areas of Kunduz as operations continue to clear the Taliban from the city. "Afghan forces have control of Kunduz city, however some scattered elements of the enemy are still hiding in the residential areas inside people's houses," deputy spokesman Zafar Hashemi said. "This could at times slow down the speed of our military operations as we put the utmost effort into not harming civilians." He added that Ghani has ordered the continuation of operations to "fully clean the city, province and the entire northeastern region of terrorist groups."


Taliban fighters seized control of Kunduz city, capital of the province of the same name, for three days last week. After sealing the city and mining roads, they looted and burned government buildings and businesses, and harassed journalists and women's and human rights workers. The government launched its counter-offensive on Thursday, and troops have since fought intermittent running battles with insurgents, who have launched attacks on security forces from the rural outskirts of the city, officials and residents have said. Authorities Wednesday had no precise casualty figures, though the number of dead and wounded is believed to be in the hundreds.

Sarwar Hussaini, the spokesman for the Kunduz provincial police chief, said Wednesday the government had regained control of the main square, which had traded hands several times, with each side tearing down the other's flag and hoisting its own. "The national flag is flying over the main square, shops have re-opened and life is returning to normal," he said, adding that main roads running east and south have opened and traffic is starting to flow. The security situation remains fluid, however, with fighting on the outskirts of the city in recent days. Residents said militants have regrouped in the Chahar Dara district to the west, where they have had a presence for some months.

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[pwjohn]

I'd like to find out if the Afghans that called in the airstrike were supporters of Assad, ISIL, or the Taliban, or were they just rebels that made a bad call on bad intel?

There in lies only one of a thousand reasons why our military has met with nothing but failure turning afghans into soldiers. Most won't fight, and those that do are usually shooting at our guys.

Which makes the bombing of this hospital at the direction of afghan soldiers even worse. The brass were all to aware of this.

 

[Disir]

I have been reading about this. It is horrific. I doubt very seriously that it was intentional. That would be entirely too risky a move.

You're probably correct in your thinking, but is a war crime by mistake, still a war crime? They had no intention of bombing the hospital but did so anyway based on information from troops on the ground. If fire control computers were part of the problem, that might be enough to get the crew off the hook altogether.

If not, the outcome looks bleak for the part of the crew responsible for pulling the trigger, and that's the worst part of all based on rules of engagement.

And that's where Obama comes in if necessary to take the heat, and or, get the crew off the hook. One way, or the other.

It's still a war crime. These are the standards that we hold others to in conflict and call it just.

It's not going to matter if Obama takes the heat or not in the eyes of the international community. Now, that might work on the US population but it isn't going to play outside of this country simply because this is seen as a continuation.

You know, sanctions play both ways.

 

[saintmichaeldefendthem]

Fuck those leftist doctors. They voluntarily went into a freakin' war zone.

Fuck you. Those were doctors volunteering their services for needy people in a 3rd world nation. Good people. Something you clearly will never be.

Just stating the facts. They assumed the risk, emotion boy.

Wrong! That's not a risk they assumed. We fucked up and the results were tragic. Cursing the doctors makes you a primo echelon asshole.

 

[jillian]

Fucken obama cant get shit right.....or can he?

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

Fucken obama cant get shit right.....or can he?

Yeah he's crazy.
But what would you expect from a muslim sympathizer?

 

[koshergrl]

Taliban were using the hospital as a seat of operations and there were Taliban patients killed.

Doctors without borders probably shouldn't be there. It's a war zone.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

Taliban were using the hospital as a seat of operations and there were Taliban patients killed.

Doctors without borders probably shouldn't be there. It's a war zone.

At the very least they shouldnt be giving aid and comfort to the enemy.
Shit like that can get you killed.

 

[Iron Head]

Fuck those leftist doctors. They voluntarily went into a freakin' war zone.

Fuck you. Those were doctors volunteering their services for needy people in a 3rd world nation. Good people. Something you clearly will never be.

Just stating the facts. They assumed the risk, emotion boy.

Wrong! That's not a risk they assumed. We fucked up and the results were tragic. Cursing the doctors makes you a primo echelon asshole.

Who in the hell goes to Afghanistan NOT expecting to dodge a few bullets or bombs?!? There is a reason that shit hole is not a prime vacation spot, you ignorant little shit!

 

[Rustic]

Why doesn't Obama go there... Oh, wait, no political gain involved. Duh!!

 

[saintmichaeldefendthem]

Fuck those leftist doctors. They voluntarily went into a freakin' war zone.

Fuck you. Those were doctors volunteering their services for needy people in a 3rd world nation. Good people. Something you clearly will never be.

Just stating the facts. They assumed the risk, emotion boy.

Wrong! That's not a risk they assumed. We fucked up and the results were tragic. Cursing the doctors makes you a primo echelon asshole.

Who in the hell goes to Afghanistan NOT expecting to dodge a few bullets or bombs?!? There is a reason that shit hole is not a prime vacation spot, you ignorant little shit!

You said, "Fuck those leftist doctors."

No. Fuck you.

 

[koshergrl]

I appreciate doctors without borders. But if they start whining that they aren't safe in WAR ZONES seriously, maybe they should just stay home.

 

[Iron Head]

Fuck those leftist doctors. They voluntarily went into a freakin' war zone.

Fuck you. Those were doctors volunteering their services for needy people in a 3rd world nation. Good people. Something you clearly will never be.

Just stating the facts. They assumed the risk, emotion boy.

Wrong! That's not a risk they assumed. We fucked up and the results were tragic. Cursing the doctors makes you a primo echelon asshole.

Who in the hell goes to Afghanistan NOT expecting to dodge a few bullets or bombs?!? There is a reason that shit hole is not a prime vacation spot, you ignorant little shit!

You said, "Fuck those leftist doctors."

No. Fuck you.

Yeah, I did. They are a bunch of whining, leftist pigs who thinks the fucking world revolves their values, to the absurd extent that they think they are entitled to waltz into a fucking war zone and not get shot at because of what they deem a "greater purpose". Fuck them. Fuck them right up their pompous, leftist asses with an axe handle!

 

[saintmichaeldefendthem]

Fuck you. Those were doctors volunteering their services for needy people in a 3rd world nation. Good people. Something you clearly will never be.

Just stating the facts. They assumed the risk, emotion boy.

Wrong! That's not a risk they assumed. We fucked up and the results were tragic. Cursing the doctors makes you a primo echelon asshole.

Who in the hell goes to Afghanistan NOT expecting to dodge a few bullets or bombs?!? There is a reason that shit hole is not a prime vacation spot, you ignorant little shit!

You said, "Fuck those leftist doctors."

No. Fuck you.

Yeah, I did. They are a bunch of whining, leftist pigs who thinks the fucking world revolves their values, to the absurd extent that they think they are entitled to waltz into a fucking war zone and not get shot at because of what they deem a "greater purpose". Fuck them. Fuck them right up their pompous, leftist asses with an axe handle!

You're not a conservative, you're a plant. You want to see a Leftist? Look in a mirror.

 

[Iron Head]

Just stating the facts. They assumed the risk, emotion boy.

Wrong! That's not a risk they assumed. We fucked up and the results were tragic. Cursing the doctors makes you a primo echelon asshole.

Who in the hell goes to Afghanistan NOT expecting to dodge a few bullets or bombs?!? There is a reason that shit hole is not a prime vacation spot, you ignorant little shit!

You said, "Fuck those leftist doctors."

No. Fuck you.

Yeah, I did. They are a bunch of whining, leftist pigs who thinks the fucking world revolves their values, to the absurd extent that they think they are entitled to waltz into a fucking war zone and not get shot at because of what they deem a "greater purpose". Fuck them. Fuck them right up their pompous, leftist asses with an axe handle!

You're not a conservative, you're a plant. You want to see a Leftist? Look in a mirror.

So now you are a paranoid conspiratorialist, eh? I am not surprised. Really I am not.

Bitch, I make Pat Buchanan look like Bernie Sanders. If anyone here is not a conservative, it is you, as your exposed dumbassitude is not consistent with conservatism. One of the reasons that conservatism is the superior political ideology is that we subordinate emotion to reason. This is your sticking point; your emotions are out of control and is dominating whatever reasonable capacity that your empty head can muster.

Wild guess: you are a born-again Christian, aren't you?

Moron, you are not a conservative. Further, on behalf of all conservatives let me just say this: fuck off... Religious-fueled shit heads like you make the conservative movement look bad. Get out!

 

[charwin95]

Fuck those leftist doctors. They voluntarily went into a freakin' war zone.

What is your problem? They voluntarily went there to help people and yes they know there's a risk but that is their decision. Whatever how and what you do with your life is your freedom.

 

[Baron]

From all stupid presidents Obama is the stupidest!

 

[charwin95]

I appreciate doctors without borders. But if they start whining that they aren't safe in WAR ZONES seriously, maybe they should just stay home.

No you don't. At least show your support instead if chastising them. They dedicated their lives to serve humanity and they have my utmost respect and admiration.

 

[waltky]

... "mistake," may have exceeded the rules American forces have operated under since their combat mission ended...

Did US Strike on Afghan Clinic Exceed Combat Authority?
Oct 07, 2015 | WASHINGTON — The U.S. airstrike on a hospital in Afghanistan, which U.S. officials have called a "mistake," may have exceeded the rules American forces have operated under since their combat mission ended nearly a year ago, officials say.

U.S. officials have declined to discuss most circumstances of the attack in Kunduz, which killed 22 civilians, because American and Afghan investigations are underway. Gen. John F. Campbell, the top U.S. commander in Afghanistan, told a Senate committee on Tuesday that as a result of the strike, he is requiring that every U.S. service member in Afghanistan be retrained on the circumstances in which U.S. firepower can be used. "To prevent any future incidences of this nature, I've directed the entire force to undergo in-depth training in order to review all of our operational authorities and rules of engagement," he said. Campbell did not elaborate, but his statement suggested that the U.S. attack mission was undertaken in error, even if the target had not been a hospital and there had been no civilian casualties.

Campbell said Afghan forces fighting to retake Kunduz from the Taliban had requested U.S. air power, and that a U.S. special operations unit in the "close vicinity" was communicating with the crew of the heavily armed AC-130 gunship that pummeled the hospital. U.S. forces do not have blanket authority to fulfill every Afghan request for U.S. firepower. When President Barack Obama ended the U.S. combat mission, he directed the remaining U.S. forces to focus on training and advising Afghan security forces and on counterterrorism missions. Authority to use force was limited to three circumstances: "force protection," or the defense of U.S. and allied troops; support of missions targeting remnants of al-Qaida in Afghanistan; and assisting Afghan forces in extreme situations where they faced mass casualties.

It's not clear whether any of those three criteria applied to Kunduz. Campbell has said that U.S. forces were not directly threatened at the time, and there is no indication that al-Qaida was present. In a report to Congress in June, the Pentagon said U.S. forces were no longer authorized to target individuals based on affiliation with the Taliban or any group other than al-Qaida. It said U.S. forces are permitted to take action against individuals that "pose a direct threat" to U.S. and coalition forces. "For example, U.S. forces no longer target individuals solely on the basis of their membership in the Taliban; however, if a member of the Taliban threatens U.S. or coalition forces, or provides direct support to al-Qaida, U.S. forces may take appropriate action," the report said.

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[koshergrl]

I appreciate doctors without borders. But if they start whining that they aren't safe in WAR ZONES seriously, maybe they should just stay home.

No you don't. At least show your support instead if chastising them. They dedicated their lives to serve humanity and they have my utmost respect and admiration.

Yes, I do.

I'm not chastising them, but they take on the risk when they go into war zones. They put themselves in a situation where they can be taken as hostages or used as cover, and you run the risk of getting killed. That's why people admire them. If they don't want to take the risk, nobody is forcing them to.