Do you believe that mental illness is a

[Tinktink]

post a link or shut up...dementia like a brain injury can be detected you fool because there is deterioration of the brain...like a blood clot ..or head injury..it is a medical condition ..not ...a so called mental illness the fact is there is no proof of the chemical imbalance theory...no test of any kind these are the facts...your a big boy ..you can choose to take drugs if you like ...but the facts remain

Those are not facts. Facts are living proof by folks that suffer with it. Retired is a fact. Your studies are just that studies, because for each study you post that states Mental illness is not physical, I would bet my bank account I can post 10 that says it is. Asking someone who has first hand personal knowledge for links shows you truly don't want to know the truth. I would take the word of Retired, before I listened to some study that was most likey was done to prove what the person doing the study wanted to prove, and not what the real fact do.

 

[editec]

Medical condition or a emotional one?

What's the difference?

Mental and emotional states of being are physical states of being that manifest in ways that we call mental or emotional states of being.

But our every emotion and thought starts out in the physical realm, doesn't it?

Unless, of course, you believe in a soul, in which case I suppose you could imagine that people's souls are choosing to be psychotic, or whatever.

Such magical thinking as that is fairly typical, isn't it?

That's why, for example, some highly misifnormed people actually do believe that homosexuals are choosing to be gay.

The head/heart delusion is understandable, of course, but it's still completely wrong.

 

[dilloduck]

But our every emotion and thought starts out in the physical realm, doesn't it?

bingo--!

 

[DamnYankee]

But our every emotion and thought starts out in the physical realm, doesn't it?

bingo--!

Ya think that was too much logic for Eots?

 

[editec]

Clinical Depression is to sadness as being in a coma is to sleep, folks.

Of course, if you've never been clinically depressed it's fairly easy to understand why you might not recognize the difference.

Since you're not actually experiencing that state of being, you don't really have a clue what is happening to the person who is. They typically just look sad or lethargic or, if you're not sympathetic you might think they just look lazy.

Hell I worked in a psych ward and at the time I thought the clinically depression patients just needed a good kick in the pants, too.

It's a common enough mistake to assume that clinical depression is just sadness.

It isn't.

 

[dilloduck]

Clinical Depression is to sadness as being in a coma is to sleep, folks.

Of course, if you've never been clinically depressed it's fairly easy to understand why you might not recognize the difference.

Since you're not actually experiencing that state of being, you don't really have a clue what is happening to the person who is. They typically just look sad or lethargic or, if you're not sympathetic you might think they just look lazy.

Hell I worked in a psych ward and at the time I thought the clinically depression patients just needed a good kick in the pants, too.

It's a common enough mistake to assume that clinical depression is just sadness.

It isn't.

Sorta like trying to talk a schizophrenic out of hearing voices.

 

[editec]

Clinical Depression is to sadness as being in a coma is to sleep, folks.

Of course, if you've never been clinically depressed it's fairly easy to understand why you might not recognize the difference.

Since you're not actually experiencing that state of being, you don't really have a clue what is happening to the person who is. They typically just look sad or lethargic or, if you're not sympathetic you might think they just look lazy.

Hell I worked in a psych ward and at the time I thought the clinically depression patients just needed a good kick in the pants, too.

It's a common enough mistake to assume that clinical depression is just sadness.

It isn't.

Sorta like trying to talk a schizophrenic out of hearing voices.

Yup.

 

[BaltimoreBob]

I think Mental Illness
is when your like my ex and try to get away with too much shit in your life
and then you depend on the Cowards of America to support you.
To overlook her ways and realize she's not born with a Penis
and needs to be looked at like a Person better then any Male.
While the Male has a Penis and therefore has two brains.
America needs to treat the woman more like a Retarded person
and expect more from the two brained male.

Yea she does have a mental illness and won't get treated.
Typical Mental Illness person.
While I have seen Mental Illness people many times
and they have said I'm OK.
They say We know that Society as a whole is very Cowardly.

Baltimore Bob

 

[Care4all]

there is no proof of any chemical imbalance that causes mental illness...none...i

that is not true in all cases
schizophrenia, for instance, shows abnormal brain activity, if I recall

no sorry there is ..no test ...of any kind for mental illness other than subjective observation
there is no Brain scan... no diagnostic test of any kind for any mental illness,,,there is no question about it

There was no Mri identifying where there was cancer in your body a few decades ago, does that mean that there was no cancerous disease in your body?

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Clinical Depression is to sadness as being in a coma is to sleep, folks.

Of course, if you've never been clinically depressed it's fairly easy to understand why you might not recognize the difference.

Since you're not actually experiencing that state of being, you don't really have a clue what is happening to the person who is. They typically just look sad or lethargic or, if you're not sympathetic you might think they just look lazy.

Hell I worked in a psych ward and at the time I thought the clinically depression patients just needed a good kick in the pants, too.

It's a common enough mistake to assume that clinical depression is just sadness.

It isn't.

Sorta like trying to talk a schizophrenic out of hearing voices.

Yup.

Eots is one of those fools that thinks all one need do is quit being lazy and have a stiff upper lip and you can wash away severe depression.

He will NEVER get it unless he suffers from it. No matter how much he is told by people that have suffered and ARE suffering he can not grasp the concept.

I spent days laying on my bed afraid to move because if I did I would kill myself. ALL my strength was involved in fighting that overpowering urge, if I moved it would take some of that energy away. There was no energy to "think positive thoughts" or get my lazy ass out of bed and do something. The something would have been blow my brains out.

He can not fathom that medication works because he has never spent 10 YEARS going through medications in a search for the one that would finally work. Him and his sugar pills. In the end it is a combination of pills that work, Geodon, Celexa and Provigal.

He can not grasp the concept that someone can be so depressed, their life and existence so miserable they AGREE to Electro Shock treatment. So miserable that you turn yourself into a mental facility cause you don't have enough strength to keep fighting the desire to end your life.

He can not grasp that clinical depression is being so depressed it is like being in a deep dark hole and there is no light and no hope for any light. He can not understand that it is so bad you can not function. You can not work, you can not even interact with your family.

The failure of one drug after another to even dent the darkness. Or the temporary marginal help of one drug that after a bit stops even doing that. 10 YEARS living in a hole fighting the desire to end your life. Unable to function in society or even your own home.

My problem is compounded by the delusional paranoia and a voice I did not even know was not just me talking to myself till Geodon turned it OFF. Geodon is not really an antidepressant it is an anti psychotic. Something I resisted taking the entire time because I did not believe I had that kind of problem. The Doctor had to mislead me a little to start taking it, only describing it as an antidepressant that helped with other things and treated me with more than serotonin.

I will never stop taking it. Within a few days the voice I did not even realize was a separate thing STOPPED. I no longer had to listen to that monologue of what a failure and loser I was going on in my head. And as we increased the celexa eventually I completely stopped having suicidal thoughts. Ohh they come and go now and again but it is not a constant daily thing.

I still can not work, any medium stress even and I am back in that hole looking out. But I can nearly function normally again. I haven't been to the mental facility in 7 years now. As opposed to 2 to 3 times a year before.

Eots is a fool and does not even realize it. He would deny thousands of people effective treatment for a condition that makes life a hell, cause he can not understand.

 

[jgbkab]

Sorta like trying to talk a schizophrenic out of hearing voices.

Yup.

Eots is one of those fools that thinks all one need do is quit being lazy and have a stiff upper lip and you can wash away severe depression.

He will NEVER get it unless he suffers from it. No matter how much he is told by people that have suffered and ARE suffering he can not grasp the concept.

I spent days laying on my bed afraid to move because if I did I would kill myself. ALL my strength was involved in fighting that overpowering urge, if I moved it would take some of that energy away. There was no energy to "think positive thoughts" or get my lazy ass out of bed and do something. The something would have been blow my brains out.

He can not fathom that medication works because he has never spent 10 YEARS going through medications in a search for the one that would finally work. Him and his sugar pills. In the end it is a combination of pills that work, Geodon, Celexa and Provigal.

He can not grasp the concept that someone can be so depressed, their life and existence so miserable they AGREE to Electro Shock treatment. So miserable that you turn yourself into a mental facility cause you don't have enough strength to keep fighting the desire to end your life.

He can not grasp that clinical depression is being so depressed it is like being in a deep dark hole and there is no light and no hope for any light. He can not understand that it is so bad you can not function. You can not work, you can not even interact with your family.

The failure of one drug after another to even dent the darkness. Or the temporary marginal help of one drug that after a bit stops even doing that. 10 YEARS living in a hole fighting the desire to end your life. Unable to function in society or even your own home.

My problem is compounded by the delusional paranoia and a voice I did not even know was not just me talking to myself till Geodon turned it OFF. Geodon is not really an antidepressant it is an anti psychotic. Something I resisted taking the entire time because I did not believe I had that kind of problem. The Doctor had to mislead me a little to start taking it, only describing it as an antidepressant that helped with other things and treated me with more than serotonin.

I will never stop taking it. Within a few days the voice I did not even realize was a separate thing STOPPED. I no longer had to listen to that monologue of what a failure and loser I was going on in my head. And as we increased the celexa eventually I completely stopped having suicidal thoughts. Ohh they come and go now and again but it is not a constant daily thing.

I still can not work, any medium stress even and I am back in that hole looking out. But I can nearly function normally again. I haven't been to the mental facility in 7 years now. As opposed to 2 to 3 times a year before.

Eots is a fool and does not even realize it. He would deny thousands of people effective treatment for a condition that makes life a hell, cause he can not understand.

Man, that is very deep and sad in a way. Sorry to hear that you go through that. I will admit that I did not know that people go through things like that and I thought they needed a kick in the pants. But you can't really expect people that haven't experienced it to really understand can you?

 

[eots]

Brain Damage Caused by Neuroleptic Psychiatric Drugs

In the past two decades, countless medical studies have shown that use of neuroleptic psychiatric drugs (also known as antipsychotics) is associated with structural brain changes, especially when taking high dosages for a long time. These brain changes can include actual shrinkage of the higher level parts of the brain. The shrinkage can be seen in brain scans and autopsy studies. In response to industry defenders who claim that this shrinkage is from the "mental illness," studies show neuroleptics lead to similar brain changes in animals. While the medical side of large libraries has this information, the public media side of the library does not. In other words, the public, patients and their families are not being informed about what medicine has long known.


Brain Damage Caused by Neuroleptic Psychiatric Drugs — MFI Portal

 

[eots]

that is not true in all cases
schizophrenia, for instance, shows abnormal brain activity, if I recall

no sorry there is ..no test ...of any kind for mental illness other than subjective observation
there is no Brain scan... no diagnostic test of any kind for any mental illness,,,there is no question about it

There was no Mri identifying where there was cancer in your body a few decades ago, does that mean that there was no cancerous disease in your body?

there is no definitive diagnostic test of any kind for mental illness...only subjective observation..these are simply the facts

 

[Tinktink]

Sorta like trying to talk a schizophrenic out of hearing voices.

Yup.

Eots is one of those fools that thinks all one need do is quit being lazy and have a stiff upper lip and you can wash away severe depression.

He will NEVER get it unless he suffers from it. No matter how much he is told by people that have suffered and ARE suffering he can not grasp the concept.

I spent days laying on my bed afraid to move because if I did I would kill myself. ALL my strength was involved in fighting that overpowering urge, if I moved it would take some of that energy away. There was no energy to "think positive thoughts" or get my lazy ass out of bed and do something. The something would have been blow my brains out.

He can not fathom that medication works because he has never spent 10 YEARS going through medications in a search for the one that would finally work. Him and his sugar pills. In the end it is a combination of pills that work, Geodon, Celexa and Provigal.

He can not grasp the concept that someone can be so depressed, their life and existence so miserable they AGREE to Electro Shock treatment. So miserable that you turn yourself into a mental facility cause you don't have enough strength to keep fighting the desire to end your life.

He can not grasp that clinical depression is being so depressed it is like being in a deep dark hole and there is no light and no hope for any light. He can not understand that it is so bad you can not function. You can not work, you can not even interact with your family.

The failure of one drug after another to even dent the darkness. Or the temporary marginal help of one drug that after a bit stops even doing that. 10 YEARS living in a hole fighting the desire to end your life. Unable to function in society or even your own home.

My problem is compounded by the delusional paranoia and a voice I did not even know was not just me talking to myself till Geodon turned it OFF. Geodon is not really an antidepressant it is an anti psychotic. Something I resisted taking the entire time because I did not believe I had that kind of problem. The Doctor had to mislead me a little to start taking it, only describing it as an antidepressant that helped with other things and treated me with more than serotonin.

I will never stop taking it. Within a few days the voice I did not even realize was a separate thing STOPPED. I no longer had to listen to that monologue of what a failure and loser I was going on in my head. And as we increased the celexa eventually I completely stopped having suicidal thoughts. Ohh they come and go now and again but it is not a constant daily thing.

I still can not work, any medium stress even and I am back in that hole looking out. But I can nearly function normally again. I haven't been to the mental facility in 7 years now. As opposed to 2 to 3 times a year before.

Eots is a fool and does not even realize it. He would deny thousands of people effective treatment for a condition that makes life a hell, cause he can not understand.

You sir are a tribute to the success of fighting the odds. I find it amazing that folks can be so compassionate towards people with Cancer, Heart disease, or any chronic illness... yet so willing to dismiss one of the hardest diseases out there. What I think people don't understand is just because they can't find cells, virus, bacteria or real physical evidence that it exsists. And folks like that irritate me to no end. And it is folks like that, that hinder progress in the fight for good mental health. It is folks like that, that make folks with a true illness too ashamed to seek help. It is folks like that, that stigmatize Mental illness as a choice.

I use to work with schizophrenics. That disease is absolutely horrible. People don't chose to not bathe for weeks on end. People don't chose to be chastized when they go out in public and start screaming or talking to no one there. People don't chose not eat. People don't chose to not sleep. People don't chose not to get out of bed, or piss on themselves. People don't chose torment. People don't chose to be afraid of everything. To suggest they do shows ignorance to understanding and compassion.

 

[Tinktink]

no sorry there is ..no test ...of any kind for mental illness other than subjective observation
there is no Brain scan... no diagnostic test of any kind for any mental illness,,,there is no question about it

There was no Mri identifying where there was cancer in your body a few decades ago, does that mean that there was no cancerous disease in your body?

there is no definitive diagnostic test of any kind for mental illness...only subjective observation..these are simply the facts

In the past they use to use lobatomies (sp), on mental ill folks. Guess what their behavior completely changed. Of course they basically became dreulers. But that is one indication that it is a physical illness, not a emotional one. The only reason you don't have dianostic proof is that it is too dangerous to go into the brain to find the problem and remove it.

 

[manifold]

Wussitis is an emotional condition.

 

[eots]

There was no Mri identifying where there was cancer in your body a few decades ago, does that mean that there was no cancerous disease in your body?

there is no definitive diagnostic test of any kind for mental illness...only subjective observation..these are simply the facts

In the past they use to use lobatomies (sp), on mental ill folks. Guess what their behavior completely changed. Of course they basically became dreulers. But that is one indication that it is a physical illness, not a emotional one. The only reason you don't have dianostic proof is that it is too dangerous to go into the brain to find the problem and remove it.

the nobel prize was given for the lobotomy and when they developed neuroleptic drugs the where referred to as a chemical alternative to lobotomy ..that was less intrusive..but without question brain damaging ...your logic ids so flawed ...if you damage a perfectly healthy brain ..you will get a docile person ..this is no indication what so ever that mental illness is a organic brain disorder..and your statement that the reason there is no diagnostic evidence is because its to dangerous to examine the brain is just something you made up..with no basis in science or fact

 

[Tinktink]

there is no definitive diagnostic test of any kind for mental illness...only subjective observation..these are simply the facts

In the past they use to use lobatomies (sp), on mental ill folks. Guess what their behavior completely changed. Of course they basically became dreulers. But that is one indication that it is a physical illness, not a emotional one. The only reason you don't have dianostic proof is that it is too dangerous to go into the brain to find the problem and remove it.

the nobel prize was given for the lobotomy and when they developed neuroleptic drugs the where referred to as a chemical alternative to lobotomy ..that was less intrusive..but without question brain damaging ...your logic ids so flawed ...if you damage a perfectly healthy brain ..you will get a docile person ..this is no indication what so ever that mental illness is a organic brain disorder..and your statement that the reason there is no diagnostic evidence is because its to dangerous to examine the brain is just something you made up..with no basis in science or fact

Actually it is your logic that is flawed. Because you can't prove the brain that was Lobotomized was perfectly healthy. Oh wait, why would someone win a Noble prize for Lobotimizing a perfect healthy brain?

 

[eots]

In the past they use to use lobatomies (sp), on mental ill folks. Guess what their behavior completely changed. Of course they basically became dreulers. But that is one indication that it is a physical illness, not a emotional one. The only reason you don't have dianostic proof is that it is too dangerous to go into the brain to find the problem and remove it.

the nobel prize was given for the lobotomy and when they developed neuroleptic drugs the where referred to as a chemical alternative to lobotomy ..that was less intrusive..but without question brain damaging ...your logic ids so flawed ...if you damage a perfectly healthy brain ..you will get a docile person ..this is no indication what so ever that mental illness is a organic brain disorder..and your statement that the reason there is no diagnostic evidence is because its to dangerous to examine the brain is just something you made up..with no basis in science or fact

Actually it is your logic that is flawed. Because you can't prove the brain that was Lobotomized was perfectly healthy.

you have no knowledge of which you speak...ask any psychiatrist if there is any diagnostic test that can determine mental illness...they will reluctantly tell you...there is no such test


[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_0aNILW6ILk]YouTube - Lobotomy - PBS documentary, on Walter Freeman[/ame]

 

[Tinktink]

the nobel prize was given for the lobotomy and when they developed neuroleptic drugs the where referred to as a chemical alternative to lobotomy ..that was less intrusive..but without question brain damaging ...your logic ids so flawed ...if you damage a perfectly healthy brain ..you will get a docile person ..this is no indication what so ever that mental illness is a organic brain disorder..and your statement that the reason there is no diagnostic evidence is because its to dangerous to examine the brain is just something you made up..with no basis in science or fact

Actually it is your logic that is flawed. Because you can't prove the brain that was Lobotomized was perfectly healthy.

you have no knowledge of which you speak...ask any psychiatrist if there is any diagnostic test that can determine mental illness...they will reluctantly tell you...there is no such test


[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_0aNILW6ILk]YouTube - Lobotomy - PBS documentary, on Walter Freeman[/ame]

Huh? I think I agreed with you on there being no "diagnostic" test. I also think I pointed out why, considering the only one that ever attempted (which by the way you so graciously pointed out got a noble prize), failed.
because you can't explore the brain diagnositically. Doesn't mean the disease isn't there.

Now tell me fine sir/madam, why would someone win a Noble prize on Lobotomy? And better yet, why did folks even attempt to use Lobotomies? Oh wait could it be, because they didn't know how else to address mental illness....