Do you believe Malcolm X's comments about White Liberals have merit today?

[Sunni Man]

Has anyone here seen the movie "Malcolm X" starring Denzel Washington?

I saw it several years ago. It was excellent. Denzel looks just like Malcolm.

 

[sky dancer]

America is not now nor was it then Imperialistic.

That's a topic worth debating. Shall we?

imperialism: a policy of extending your rule over foreign countries

imperialism n. The policy of extending a nation's authority by territorial acquisition or by the establishment of economic and political hegemony.

hegemony: the dominance or leadership of one social group or nation over others;

 

[Sunni Man]

America is not now nor was it then Imperialistic.

America has been the #1 Imperialistic nation in the world for the last several decades.

 

[editec]

America has been the #1 Imperialistic nation in the world for the last several decades.

I'm not sure most people will see that until one of our Presidents actually appoints his favorite horse to the Senate, Sunni.

 

[sky dancer]

Here's a bit of an interesting essay:

"The United States has been an empire since at least 1803, when Thomas Jefferson purchased the Louisiana Territory. Throughout the 19th century, what Jefferson called the "empire of liberty" expanded across the continent. When U.S. power stretched from "sea to shining sea," the American empire moved abroad, acquiring colonies ranging from Puerto Rico and the Philippines to Hawaii and Alaska.

While the formal empire mostly disappeared after World War II, the United States set out on another bout of imperialism in Germany and Japan. Oh, sorry — that wasn't imperialism; it was "occupation." But when Americans are running foreign governments, it's a distinction without a difference. Likewise, recent "nation-building" experiments in Somalia, Haiti, Bosnia, Kosovo and Afghanistan are imperialism under another name.

Mind you, this is not meant as a condemnation. The history of American imperialism is hardly one of unadorned good doing; there have been plenty of shameful episodes, such as the mistreatment of the Indians. But, on the whole, U.S. imperialism has been the greatest force for good in the world during the past century. It has defeated the monstrous evils of communism and Nazism and lesser evils such as the Taliban and Serbian ethnic cleansing. Along the way, it has helped spread liberal institutions to countries as diverse as South Korea and Panama.

Yet, while generally successful as imperialists, Americans have been loath to confirm that's what they were doing. That's OK. Given the historical baggage that "imperialism" carries, there's no need for the U.S. government to embrace the term. But it should definitely embrace the practice."
USATODAY.com - American imperialism? No need to run away from label

IMO The Bush doctrine has been imperialist.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Both of you are wrong. But then expecting a dumb shit that thinks murdering children cause they are Jews is acceptable to understand reality is not my problem. As for Sky, sorry the definition does not fit. Not now and not in the 60's.

If you want to get literal EVERY nation is imperialistic with that definition. Every nation seeks to gain some form of control of all Nations it does business with or borders or has problems with or even allies with. Some are better then others at it.

It is kind of like the current definition of a lie.... One of them is anything said that is not true. Using that definition every person on the planet is a serial liar.

 

[Sunni Man]

I was part of the Vietnam War.

That war was nothing but aggressive and blatant American Imperialism. Period

 

[RetiredGySgt]

I was part of the Vietnam War.

That war was nothing but aggressive and blatant American Imperialism. Period

Wrong again. But then you are such an idiot you believe it is ok for Muslims to murder women and children cause they are Jewish or not Muslim or not the right kind of Muslim.

 

[sky dancer]

Imperialism; A policy in which stronger nations attempt to create empires by dominating weaker nations economically, politically, or militarily; also called expansionism


"I'm the commander in chief, see, I don't need to explain, I do not need to explain why I say things. That's the interesting part about being president. Maybe somebody needs to explain to me why they say something, but I don't feel like I owe anybody an explanation."_- George W. Bush, quoted in Bob Woodward's book Bush at War.

Imperialism is the use of force in international relations outside the realm of international law and the requirements of self-defense, with the purpose of taking control of foreign countries, their populations and their resources, and with the express intention of changing their cultures or systems of government. The best book on imperialism is J.A. Hobson's Imperialism: A Study (1902).
http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Fascism/Fascism_Rise_USA.html

 

[Sunni Man]

Wrong again. But then you are such an idiot you believe it is ok for Muslims to murder women and children cause they are Jewish or not Muslim or not the right kind of Muslim.

I have never advocated or condoned the murder of anyone Sarge.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Imperialism; A policy in which stronger nations attempt to create empires by dominating weaker nations economically, politically, or militarily; also called expansionism

Semantics. And again applies to ever Nation cause they ALL try to control economics and politics at the very least.

 

[sky dancer]

Semantics? No. The Bush Administration are imperialists in every sense of the word. Our own recent history will demonstrate this.

 

[sky dancer]

To get back to Malcolm X:

"I might point out here that colonialism or imperialism, as the slave system of the West is called, is not something that is just confined to England or France or the United States. The interests in this country are in cahoots with the interests in France and the in terests in Britain. It's one huge complex or combine, and it creates what's known not as the American power structure or the French power structure, but an international power structure. This international power structure is used to suppress the masses of dark-skinned people all over the world and exploit them of their natural resources."

~Malcolm X~

February 14, 1965 (taken from the essay 'Malcolm X, our revolutionary son & brother.' by Patricia Robinson)

 

[sky dancer]

Martin Luther King, Jr. about Malcolm...

"You know, right before he was killed he came down to Selma and said some pretty passionate things against me, and that surprised me because after all it was my territory there. But afterwards he took my wife aside, and said he thought he could help me more by attacking me than praising me. He thought it would make it easier for me in the long run."

MLK, Halberstam, "Second coming of MLK", p.51

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Semantics? No. The Bush Administration are imperialists in every sense of the word. Our own recent history will demonstrate this.

Simply wrong. We invaded Afghanistan because of that Governments refusal to turn over a man that murdered 3000 civilians and we invaded Iraq because he violated for years the terms of his cease fire.

 

[sky dancer]

Malcolm X was a great American hero.

 

[sky dancer]

Simply wrong. We invaded Afghanistan because of that Governments refusal to turn over a man that murdered 3000 civilians and we invaded Iraq because he violated for years the terms of his cease fire.

We invaded Iraq illegally. Bush, in essence, snubbed his nose at the international community and the United Nations. He lied to the American people. He behaved like an emperor--not a President.

Bush has had no respect for the American people, the international community, the rule of law, or the ideals in which our country was founded on.

I've been reading numerious books about the Bush presidency. His words and actions speak for themselves.

 

[sky dancer]

Sarge--

We disagree on this topic of imperialism--passionately. I respect you and appreciate our differences.

"What has happened to our Constitution? I live in a country that uses secret prisons and torture chambers, a country run by a government that never stops lying, spies on its citizens, and spits not only on the Geneva convention accords, but on our Constitution— a country with five percent of the world’s population and twenty-two percent of the world’s incarcerated population. What happened to habeas corpus? What is the definition of tyranny? What is the definition of fascism? The Corporate State. This president tells Congress and the American people that he is doing away with secrets prisons and torture while at the very same time planning new secret prisons and more advanced torture. He invaded and destroyed a country that had done nothing to us, a country run by a tyrant we armed and encouraged to wage war against Iran, Saddam being our “ally” in the Eighties; and now, in the midst of a tribal civil war, we contribute, day after monstrous bloody day, to the slaughter of innocent people.

When I was in Marine Corps boot camp, the first thing I learned was that my paramount duty was to “become a killing machine.” When we send “killing machines” into other countries, it would serve us well to understand that these men and women are not only killing machines, but young, often naïve people who return home with deep psychic as well as physical wounds, each agony in its own way unique. Mercenaries, on the other hand, represent a Republican ideal— privatization of war. They are paid five or ten times what our “service” men and women are paid and are regulated (as far as anyone can tell) by no one other than corporate bosses. These are the twenty-first century incarnation of the mine-owners’ thugs who beat up union organizers a hundred years ago—in Virginia… and in Brazil and in Peru and…"
Poets Against War Newsletter Autumn 2007

 

[Esta_PG]

Historically correct though Islam is not a "Religion of Peace".

Well, in a truly text-based sense, none of the "Big 3" Jewish-in-origin religions are peaceful. They all have a mandate in their holy books to spread the religion through the sword. Some have just let go of that idea and others haven't, and the rate of the faithful that have let go varies between religion and sect. Or, more clearly said, any Jew, Christian, or Muslim who wanted to wage a holy war of some kind could back up their conviction with passages from a holy book. The rate of Jews vs. Christians vs. Muslims who actually WAGE holy wars is, of course, not a 1 to 1 to 1 ratio, but they all could theoretically wage them with the same degree of divine authority.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

We invaded Iraq illegally. Bush, in essence, snubbed his nose at the international community and the United Nations. He lied to the American people. He behaved like an emperor--not a President.

Bush has had no respect for the American people, the international community, the rule of law, or the ideals in which our country was founded on.

I've been reading numerious books about the Bush presidency. His words and actions speak for themselves.

LOL, there is no such thing as an Illegal war. Get back to me when someone can enforce that notion.