Zone1 Do you believe in the doctrine of the Trinity?

[onefour1]

From an online definition:

Doctrine of Trinity​

The doctrine of the Trinity is a central Christian belief that God is one in being and essence yet exists as three distinct Persons: the Father, the Son (Jesus Christ), and the Holy Spirit. This doctrine asserts that there is one God who eternally exists as three coeternal, consubstantial (sharing the same divine essence or nature), and distinct Persons. Each Person is fully God, possessing all the attributes of divinity, yet there is only one God. The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are not parts of God, nor are they merely modes or forms of a single person; rather, each Person is fully God, and the divine essence is not divided but shared equally among them.

The doctrine is rooted in the revelation of God in Scripture, though the term "Trinity" itself is not explicitly used in the Bible. The New Testament provides a foundation for the doctrine through passages such as the Great Commission, where Jesus commands baptism "in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit" , and the apostolic benediction, which invokes "the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Spirit". The Old Testament is also interpreted by many Christians as containing hints of the Trinity, such as the plural pronouns in Genesis 1 ("Let us make man in our image") and Genesis 3 ("the man has become like one of us"), as well as theophanies like the appearance of three men to Abraham. The Deity of Christ is supported by passages like Daniel 7–14, where the "Son of Man" is given everlasting dominion, and by the New Testament's explicit statements that the Son is God.

The doctrine developed gradually over centuries through theological reflection and church councils, particularly in response to controversies like Arianism, which challenged the full divinity of the Son. The Council of Nicaea (325 AD) and the Council of Constantinople (381 AD) were pivotal in formulating the orthodox understanding of the Trinity, affirming that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are of the same substance (homoousios). The Council of Florence later clarified the procession of the Holy Spirit from both the Father and the Son (Filioque), a point of distinction between Eastern and Western Christianity. The doctrine is considered essential to the Christian faith, shaping all other doctrines and providing the foundation for understanding God's nature, salvation, and the Christian life.

While the Trinity is a mystery that cannot be fully comprehended by finite human minds, it is not a contradiction; rather, it expresses the unity and distinction within the Godhead. The three Persons are distinct in their roles and relations—such as the Father begetting the Son, the Son being begotten, and the Holy Spirit proceeding from the Father and the Son—but they are united in essence and purpose. This relational unity is reflected in the Christian understanding of creation, revelation, and redemption, which are seen as the shared work of the three Persons. The doctrine is unique to Christianity and distinguishes it from other monotheistic religions like Judaism and Islam.

 

[Hafar1014]

Its nonsense

 

[FoghornLeghorn]

I'm skeptical that any living human fully understands it. It's certainly above my pay grade.

 

[forkintheroad7]

Its nonsense

No, the True Church Christ founded teaches the Trinity

 

[ding]

I'm skeptical that any living human fully understands it. It's certainly above my pay grade.

The Trinity is a relationship to be entered into.

Enter into a real relationship with them. Talk to them like they are real. Then listen and watch for signs.

 

[onefour1]

No, the True Church Christ founded teaches the Trinity

Can you show from scripture how you come to believe that the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are the same being yet separate persons?

 

[Zebra]

How does the Holy Ghost look like?

 

[ding]

How does the Holy Ghost look like?

A better question is what does the Holy Ghost feel like.

 

[onefour1]

How does the Holy Ghost look like?

From revelation, the Prophet Joseph Smith learned the following regarding the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost.

Doctrine and Covenants 130:22-23
22 The Father has a body of flesh and bones as tangible as man’s; the Son also; but the Holy Ghost has not a body of flesh and bones, but is a personage of Spirit. Were it not so, the Holy Ghost could not dwell in us.
3 A man may receive the Holy Ghost, and it may descend upon him and not tarry with him.

So basically after Jesus was resurrect, he became like the Father and had an immortal body of flesh and bones. The Holy Ghost is a personage of spirit and does not have a body of flesh and bones yet. We believe that sometime in the future the Holy Ghost will receive a body just as the Father and Son have but for now his mission is to be fulfilled as a personage of spirit. After Jesus resurrected and ascended to heaven, we learn that Jesus is the express image of the Father.

Hebrews 1:1-3
1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

Phillip had a desire to see the Father and requested that Jesus show him the Father. To this Jesus replied:

John 14:8-9
8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?

Jesus is the express image of his Father. This means that the Father has a body and Jesus looks exactly like his Father. Thus he that hath seen Jesus hath seen the Father.

 

[Mr Natural]

How does the Holy Ghost look like?

 

[Zebra]

I'm skeptical that any living human fully understands it. It's certainly above my pay grade.

Saint Patrick explained it with the help of a shamrock.

 

[Zebra]

5 of 8 say no

 

[Cassandro]

I think the Trinity was made up after Jesus' death as a compromise between those who believed he was a man and those who believed he was God himself. Throwing in the Holy Spirit helped to further diffuse this controversy.

 

[Meriweather]

I think the Trinity was made up after Jesus' death as a compromise between those who believed he was a man and those who believed he was God himself. Throwing in the Holy Spirit helped to further diffuse this controversy.

That would be over three hundred years after Jesus' death. Recall John's Gospel begins with Jesus was the Word mentioned in Genesis. Genesis also records that the Spirit of God moved over the waters on the earth. Creation of life on earth began with the spoken Word. Yes, Jesus, the Word, speaks of the Holy Spirit, and the Father, the Creator.

The problem began with people counting up three Gods, when God is One. Trinity was given as a theological analogy of Creator-Word-Spirit being One God.

 

[onefour1]

One of the problems in the New Testament scriptures with the oneness of God meaning that the Father and Jesus are the same being is that of John 17.

John 17:20-23
20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

If those who are believers in Jesus Christ are to become one even as Jesus and the Father are one, then if their oneness is that they are the same being, this would mean that all believers would become the same being as God himself. The oneness of God does not imply that they are the same being but that they are one in glory, purpose, and doctrine and unity. In the New Testament we read that Jesus always succomb to the will of the Father and in this way his will was to always do the will of the Father.


Luke 22:42
Saying, Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done.

John 6:38
For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.

Here we read that Jesus was not the same being as the Father but had a separate body and will. However, he forsook his own will when it was not in line with the Father and only did that which the Father would have him do. In this way they were united and their doctrine and purpose were one.

 

[ding]

One of the problems in the New Testament scriptures with the oneness of God meaning that the Father and Jesus are the same being is that of John 17.

John 17:20-23
20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

If those who are believers in Jesus Christ are to become one even as Jesus and the Father are one, then if their oneness is that they are the same being, this would mean that all believers would become the same being as God himself. The oneness of God does not imply that they are the same being but that they are one in glory, purpose, and doctrine and unity. In the New Testament we read that Jesus always succomb to the will of the Father and in this way his will was to always do the will of the Father.


Luke 22:42
Saying, Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done.

John 6:38
For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.

Here we read that Jesus was not the same being as the Father but had a separate body and will. However, he forsook his own will when it was not in line with the Father and only did that which the Father would have him do. In this way they were united and their doctrine and purpose were one.

The Catholic Church teaches that the Trinity (God as Father, Son, and Holy Spirit) is the central mystery of the Christian faith, meaning it's a fundamental truth about God's inner life that is beyond full human comprehension but revealed by God himself, accessible only through divine revelation, not reason alone. It's a mystery of faith, a core doctrine that forms the foundation of Christian life and understanding of God.

In essence, Catholics believe the Trinity isn't a puzzle to be solved but a divine reality to be received and lived, understood through faith and revelation, not purely intellect.

 

[onefour1]

The Catholic Church teaches that the Trinity (God as Father, Son, and Holy Spirit) is the central mystery of the Christian faith, meaning it's a fundamental truth about God's inner life that is beyond full human comprehension but revealed by God himself, accessible only through divine revelation, not reason alone. It's a mystery of faith, a core doctrine that forms the foundation of Christian life and understanding of God.

In essence, Catholics believe the Trinity isn't a puzzle to be solved but a divine reality to be received and lived, understood through faith and revelation, not purely intellect.

If it is a mystery then how can it be understood by the Catholic faith? Where in the Bible does it ever claim that God the Father and Jesus Christ are the same being? When Jesus went to heaven he sat down on the right hand of the Father. As stated in my previous post, Jesus and the Father have separate and distinct wills. Why would Jesus need to pray unto the Father if he himself is the very being of the Father? Simply saying they are the same being without evidence from the Bible and when questioned about it you default to it being the grand mystery only backs the idea that it is a mystery to you, the Pope and all believers in the Catholic faith and that they really don't know that they are the same being. I could claim that God is anything I would like to make up and then when questioned about it default to say it is true but it is a mystery that nobody really understands. That doesn't fly with what I've read in scripture.


John 17:3
And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.


John 5:19
Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeththe Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.

One thing that Jesus did was to resurrect with an immortal body of flesh and bones. According to the verse above, Jesus would have to have seen the Father resurrect with a body of flesh and bones as well to make his statement true.

Upon Jesus' resurrrection and ascension to heaven, we read the following in the Book of Hebrews:


Hebrews 1:3
Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

If the resurrected Jesus is the in the brightness of the Father's glory and the very express image of his person, then wouldn't this imply that Jesus, who has an immortal resurrected body of flesh and bones be the express image of the Father who would also have an immortal body of flesh and bones? To Philip the Lord taught the following:

John 14:6-9
6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?

Since Jesus is the express image of the Father, just as Seth was the express image of his father Adam, Jesus could say that if you have seen me, then you have seen the Father. God the Father is a person and Jesus is the express image of God's person. He is not the same being but has the same image that the Father has.

 

[ding]

If it is a mystery then how can it be understood by the Catholic faith?

The Catholic Church teaches that the Trinity (God as Father, Son, and Holy Spirit) is the central mystery of the Christian faith, meaning it's a fundamental truth about God's inner life that is beyond full human comprehension but revealed by God himself, accessible only through divine revelation, not reason alone. It's a mystery of faith, a core doctrine that forms the foundation of Christian life and understanding of God.

Jesus' words and actions, especially His baptism (where the Father speaks, the Son is baptized, and the Spirit descends), revealed God's Trinitarian nature.

Hints of the Trinity appeared in the Old Testament (e.g., the visitors to Abraham), interpreted by Church Fathers as prefigurations of the Persons.

The Apostles, empowered by the Spirit, preached the Trinity, as seen in St. Paul's letters (2 Corinthians 13:13) and St. John's Gospel.

The Gospel of John preaches the Trinity by revealing God as Father, Son (Jesus), and Holy Spirit, emphasizing Jesus' divinity as eternally with God and fully God (John 1:1, 1:14), their unity ("I and the Father are one"), and the sending of the Spirit as "another Paraclete" (Advocate/Helper) to indwell believers, making the divine presence real in their lives, especially during Jesus' farewell discourse (John 14-17). John highlights distinct persons within one Godhead, showing the Father sending the Son, and the Son sending the Spirit, all participating in the same divine being, creating a "compound unity".

The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ and the love of God and the fellowship of the holy Spirit be with all of you. 2 Corinthians 13:13

 

[DennisPTate]

From an online definition:

Doctrine of Trinity​

The doctrine of the Trinity is a central Christian belief that God is one in being and essence yet exists as three distinct Persons: the Father, the Son (Jesus Christ), and the Holy Spirit. This doctrine asserts that there is one God who eternally exists as three coeternal, consubstantial (sharing the same divine essence or nature), and distinct Persons. Each Person is fully God, possessing all the attributes of divinity, yet there is only one God. The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are not parts of God, nor are they merely modes or forms of a single person; rather, each Person is fully God, and the divine essence is not divided but shared equally among them.

The doctrine is rooted in the revelation of God in Scripture, though the term "Trinity" itself is not explicitly used in the Bible. The New Testament provides a foundation for the doctrine through passages such as the Great Commission, where Jesus commands baptism "in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit" , and the apostolic benediction, which invokes "the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Spirit". The Old Testament is also interpreted by many Christians as containing hints of the Trinity, such as the plural pronouns in Genesis 1 ("Let us make man in our image") and Genesis 3 ("the man has become like one of us"), as well as theophanies like the appearance of three men to Abraham. The Deity of Christ is supported by passages like Daniel 7–14, where the "Son of Man" is given everlasting dominion, and by the New Testament's explicit statements that the Son is God.

The doctrine developed gradually over centuries through theological reflection and church councils, particularly in response to controversies like Arianism, which challenged the full divinity of the Son. The Council of Nicaea (325 AD) and the Council of Constantinople (381 AD) were pivotal in formulating the orthodox understanding of the Trinity, affirming that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are of the same substance (homoousios). The Council of Florence later clarified the procession of the Holy Spirit from both the Father and the Son (Filioque), a point of distinction between Eastern and Western Christianity. The doctrine is considered essential to the Christian faith, shaping all other doctrines and providing the foundation for understanding God's nature, salvation, and the Christian life.

While the Trinity is a mystery that cannot be fully comprehended by finite human minds, it is not a contradiction; rather, it expresses the unity and distinction within the Godhead. The three Persons are distinct in their roles and relations—such as the Father begetting the Son, the Son being begotten, and the Holy Spirit proceeding from the Father and the Son—but they are united in essence and purpose. This relational unity is reflected in the Christian understanding of creation, revelation, and redemption, which are seen as the shared work of the three Persons. The doctrine is unique to Christianity and distinguishes it from other monotheistic religions like Judaism and Islam.

I used to believe that The Holy Spirit was like electricity but certain near death experiencers have convinced me that The Holy Spirit would have to have identity and personality. Messiah Yeshua - Jesus stated that the Heavenly Father was doing all the miracles and later on Jesus said that The Holy Spirit could guide the little flock, his disciples, far better than if he had lived on and on and on.