Do Palestinians Have the Right to Defend Themselves?

[toastman]

"Yes, it is important to remember that there are opposing alternative perspectives; and just as clearly, many of the hardcore pro-Palestinians tend to think of the first --- five Aliyah as an "invasion" (often including the Ben-Gurion One Million Plan as an invasion)."

What would you have called it if you were a Christian or Muslim living in Palestine at the time, 93% or more of the population? European tourism?

Mass immigration , which is what it was.

Mass immigration with the intent to evict the people living on the and taking the land from those same people living on the land and then creating a state not of the indigenous people is an invasion. Sorry, that is not mass immigration. Thar's like calling the European invasion of the New World mass immigration. Why can't you see how ridiculous your position is?

An invasion is a military offensive . Their intention was not to evict anyone, it was to build a home for themselves.

That is true and Britain's military was in the service of the Zionists.

That's bullshit. If you would do some research, you would see that they Britain helped the Jews during certain points in time while helping the Arabs during other points in time. It all depends on what time period you are looking into.

 

[toastman]

Mass immigration , which is what it was.

Mass immigration with the intent to evict the people living on the and taking the land from those same people living on the land and then creating a state not of the indigenous people is an invasion. Sorry, that is not mass immigration. Thar's like calling the European invasion of the New World mass immigration. Why can't you see how ridiculous your position is?

An invasion is a military offensive . Their intention was not to evict anyone, it was to build a home for themselves.

That is true and Britain's military was in the service of the Zionists.

LINK ?

I realize that Israel supporters are not deep thinkers. Look at the highlights of the League of Nations Covenant as applied to mandates.

"...which are inhabited by peoples not yet able to stand by themselves..."

"...the well-being and development of such peoples form a sacred trust..."

"...the tutelage of such peoples should be entrusted..."

"...the rendering of administrative advice and assistance by a Mandatory until such time as they are able to stand alone."​

If Britain followed the Covenant it could have accomplished its goal with a handful of civilians. Yet it kept its military presence and actually increased its troop strength in the '30s.

So what's up with all that military?

"I realize that Israel supporters are not deep thinkers"




That's hilarious coming from you !

 

[toastman]

Mass immigration , which is what it was.

Mass immigration with the intent to evict the people living on the and taking the land from those same people living on the land and then creating a state not of the indigenous people is an invasion. Sorry, that is not mass immigration. Thar's like calling the European invasion of the New World mass immigration. Why can't you see how ridiculous your position is?

An invasion is a military offensive . Their intention was not to evict anyone, it was to build a home for themselves.

That is true and Britain's military was in the service of the Zionists.

LINK ?

I realize that Israel supporters are not deep thinkers. Look at the highlights of the League of Nations Covenant as applied to mandates.

"...which are inhabited by peoples not yet able to stand by themselves..."

"...the well-being and development of such peoples form a sacred trust..."

"...the tutelage of such peoples should be entrusted..."

"...the rendering of administrative advice and assistance by a Mandatory until such time as they are able to stand alone."​

If Britain followed the Covenant it could have accomplished its goal with a handful of civilians. Yet it kept its military presence and actually increased its troop strength in the '30s.

So what's up with all that military?

FIrst off, nowhere in your link does it answer Phoenall's question.

Second, it's obvious why their military was there. All you have to do is go back to the time to when the British came to the region and how.

 

[RoccoR]

montelatici, et al,

I think that our friend "toastman" is correct. The Implication of an invasion is a an "offensive military action" by an external influence --- in which an aggressor force exits their sovereign territory and enters --- "by force" --- the sovereign territory controlled by a completely different political entity.

Relative to the Middle East, after WWI - the Ottoman Surrender - but prior to Israeli Independence, there was no "military invasion by an armed force" to takeover the territory ---until 15 May 1948, when the combined force of military contribution from Egypt, Jordan, Syria Iraq , Lebanon, and Saudi Arabia, --- supported by the Muslim Brotherhood, Yemen, Pakistan, and Sudan (collectively known as the Arab League), violated Article 1(2) - and - 2(4) of the UN Charter by the use of armed force against the territorial integrity and political independence of the new State of Israel.

On 14 May 1948, Britain relinquished its Mandate over Palestine and disengaged its forces. On the same day, the Jewish Agency proclaimed the establishment of the State of Israel on the territory allotted to it by the partition plan. Fierce hostilities immediately broke out between the Arab and Jewish communities. The next day, regular troops of the neighbouring Arab States entered the territory to assist the Palestinian Arabs. SOURCE: Page 10 - The first Arab-Israeli war, 1948-1949 - Chapter 2: The Partition Plan and the end of the British mandate - The Question of Palestine and the United Nations .

• NOTE:

The adoption of resolution 181 (II) was followed by outbreaks of violence in Palestine. As the situation deteriorated, the Security Council called for a special session of the General Assembly, which then met from 16 April to 14 May 1948. On 17 April, the Security Council called for the cessation of all military and paramilitary activities in Palestine, and on 23 April it established a Truce Commission to supervise and help bring about a ceasefire. For its part, the General Assembly relieved the Palestine Commission of its responsibilities and decided to appoint a mediator charged with promoting a peaceful settlement in cooperation with the Truce Commission. On 20 May, Count Folke Bernadotte, President of the Swedish Red Cross, was chosen as United Nations Mediator.​

Mass immigration with the intent to evict the people living on the and taking the land from those same people living on the land and then creating a state not of the indigenous people is an invasion. Sorry, that is not mass immigration. Thar's like calling the European invasion of the New World mass immigration. Why can't you see how ridiculous your position is?

An invasion is a military offensive . Their intention was not to evict anyone, it was to build a home for themselves.

You've got to be kidding. You are still on that ridiculous tack. Of course the Zionists intended to evict the existing residents and they fully intended to establish a Jewish state, where 93% of the people were Christians and Muslims. And it was an invasion. An invasion need not be military. Just stop your nonsense.

(COMMENT)

The use of the term "invasion" (with the caveat: "An invasion need not be military.") is an intentional over sensationalization --- an appeal to emotion in an effort to overdramatize the immigration effort by the successive authorities (first the Ottoman Empire and then the successor government by the Mandatory).

The intent to remove or to evict the existing hostile indigenous population is an internal defense and development (IDAD) strategy, which seeks to end internal conflict (the potential for rear area disturbances or supply disruptions) by correcting the condition well before it becomes a problems. The hostile indigenous population has within it an insurgency. Insurgents are citizens of a country attempting by illegal means to change the way it is governed. They believe that the legal methods available cannot satisfy their demands. Thus, they violate the accepted legal processes of government and use illegal means, which are a combination of political, economic, psychological, and military methods.

· Insurgency. An attempt by an organized element to overthrow the legal government through subversion and armed co-threat.
· Political subversion. Guerilla and terrorist activities and is frequently supported by external activities.
​

The Hostile Arab Palestinian (HoAP) had demonstrated the potential problem they represented going back to the 1930 and the establishment of the Palestinian Black Hand. And while there was still no real conclusive intent to remove key populated areas of dense HoAP, the Arab Higher Committee made it absolutely crystal clear that the HoAP intentions:

• The Arabs of Palestine will never recognise the validity of the extorted partition recommendations or the authority of the United Nations to make them.
• The Arabs of Palestine consider that any attempt by the Jews or any power group of powers to establish a Jewish state in Arab territory is an act of aggression which will be resisted in self-defense.
• The Arabs of Palestine made a solemn declaration before the United Nations, before God and history, that they will never submit or yield to any power going to Palestine to enforce partition. The only way to establish partition is first to wipe them out — man, woman and child.

This all but sealed the strategy that would need to be employed.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[montelatici]

Rocco et al:

A colonial power invaded a land and transferred a foreign population to that land with the intent to evict the indigenous population and transfer the land to that foreign population at the expense of the indigenous population (colonialism). It was an invasion.

Since the partition recommendations were "extorted" according to your post, I don't see what your point is.

And of course the indigenous population would resist their eviction and dispossession. What is unusual about that? The Native Americans resisted the European invasion and colonialism, despite the fact that the Pope allotted land to Spain and Portugal and despite the fact that in North America the Crown had issued very legal charters to the colonial leaders.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Mass immigration with the intent to evict the people living on the and taking the land from those same people living on the land and then creating a state not of the indigenous people is an invasion. Sorry, that is not mass immigration. Thar's like calling the European invasion of the New World mass immigration. Why can't you see how ridiculous your position is?

An invasion is a military offensive . Their intention was not to evict anyone, it was to build a home for themselves.

That is true and Britain's military was in the service of the Zionists.

LINK ?

I realize that Israel supporters are not deep thinkers. Look at the highlights of the League of Nations Covenant as applied to mandates.

"...which are inhabited by peoples not yet able to stand by themselves..."

"...the well-being and development of such peoples form a sacred trust..."

"...the tutelage of such peoples should be entrusted..."

"...the rendering of administrative advice and assistance by a Mandatory until such time as they are able to stand alone."​

If Britain followed the Covenant it could have accomplished its goal with a handful of civilians. Yet it kept its military presence and actually increased its troop strength in the '30s.

So what's up with all that military?

FIrst off, nowhere in your link does it answer Phoenall's question.

Second, it's obvious why their military was there. All you have to do is go back to the time to when the British came to the region and how.

The answer to my question is the answer to his question.

 

[montelatici]

We are doctors and scientists, who spend our lives developing means to care and protect health and lives. We are also informed people; we teach the ethics of our professions, together with the knowledge and practice of it. We all have worked in and known the situation of Gaza for years.

On the basis of our ethics and practice, we are denouncing what we witness in the aggression of Gaza by Israel.

We ask our colleagues, old and young professionals, to denounce this Israeli aggression. We challenge the perversity of a propaganda that justifies the creation of an emergency to masquerade a massacre, a so-called “defensive aggression”. In reality it is a ruthless assault of unlimited duration, extent, and intensity. We wish to report the facts as we see them and their implications on the lives of the people.

We are appalled by the military onslaught on civilians in Gaza under the guise of punishing terrorists. This is the third large scale military assault on Gaza since 2008. Each time the death toll is borne mainly by innocent people in Gaza, especially women and children under the unacceptable pretext of Israel eradicating political parties and resistance to the occupation and siege they impose.

The blockade on Gaza has tightened further since last year and this has worsened the toll on Gaza's population. In Gaza, people suffer from hunger, thirst, pollution, shortage of medicines, electricity, and any means to get an income, not only by being bombed and shelled. Power crisis, gasoline shortage, water and food scarcity, sewage outflow and ever decreasing resources are disasters caused directly and indirectly by the siege.1

People in Gaza are resisting this aggression because they want a better and normal life and, even while crying in sorrow, pain, and terror, they reject a temporary truce that does not provide a real chance for a better future. A voice under the attacks in Gaza is that of Um Al Ramlawi who speaks for all in Gaza: “They are killing us all anyway—either a slow death by the siege, or a fast one by military attacks. We have nothing left to lose—we must fight for our rights, or die trying.”

Gaza has been blockaded by sea and land since 2006. Any individual of Gaza, including fishermen venturing beyond 3 nautical miles of the coast of Gaza, face being shot by the Israeli Navy. No one from Gaza can leave from the only two checkpoints, Erez or Rafah, without special permission from the Israelis and the Egyptians, which is hard to come by for many, if not impossible. People in Gaza are unable to go abroad to study, work, visit families, or do business. Wounded and sick people cannot leave easily to get specialised treatment outside Gaza. Entries of food and medicines into Gaza have been restricted and many essential items for survival are prohibited.3 Before the present assault, medical stock items in Gaza were already at an all time low because of the blockade.3 They have run out now. Likewise, Gaza is unable to export its produce. Agriculture has been severely impaired by the imposition of a buffer zone, and agricultural products cannot be exported due to the blockade. 80% of Gaza's population is dependent on food rations from the UN.

http://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(14)61044-8/fulltext

 

[P F Tinmore]

montelatici, et al,

I think that our friend "toastman" is correct. The Implication of an invasion is a an "offensive military action" by an external influence --- in which an aggressor force exits their sovereign territory and enters --- "by force" --- the sovereign territory controlled by a completely different political entity.

Relative to the Middle East, after WWI - the Ottoman Surrender - but prior to Israeli Independence, there was no "military invasion by an armed force" to takeover the territory ---until 15 May 1948, when the combined force of military contribution from Egypt, Jordan, Syria Iraq , Lebanon, and Saudi Arabia, --- supported by the Muslim Brotherhood, Yemen, Pakistan, and Sudan (collectively known as the Arab League), violated Article 1(2) - and - 2(4) of the UN Charter by the use of armed force against the territorial integrity and political independence of the new State of Israel.

On 14 May 1948, Britain relinquished its Mandate over Palestine and disengaged its forces. On the same day, the Jewish Agency proclaimed the establishment of the State of Israel on the territory allotted to it by the partition plan. Fierce hostilities immediately broke out between the Arab and Jewish communities. The next day, regular troops of the neighbouring Arab States entered the territory to assist the Palestinian Arabs. SOURCE: Page 10 - The first Arab-Israeli war, 1948-1949 - Chapter 2: The Partition Plan and the end of the British mandate - The Question of Palestine and the United Nations .

• NOTE:

The adoption of resolution 181 (II) was followed by outbreaks of violence in Palestine. As the situation deteriorated, the Security Council called for a special session of the General Assembly, which then met from 16 April to 14 May 1948. On 17 April, the Security Council called for the cessation of all military and paramilitary activities in Palestine, and on 23 April it established a Truce Commission to supervise and help bring about a ceasefire. For its part, the General Assembly relieved the Palestine Commission of its responsibilities and decided to appoint a mediator charged with promoting a peaceful settlement in cooperation with the Truce Commission. On 20 May, Count Folke Bernadotte, President of the Swedish Red Cross, was chosen as United Nations Mediator.​

Mass immigration with the intent to evict the people living on the and taking the land from those same people living on the land and then creating a state not of the indigenous people is an invasion. Sorry, that is not mass immigration. Thar's like calling the European invasion of the New World mass immigration. Why can't you see how ridiculous your position is?

An invasion is a military offensive . Their intention was not to evict anyone, it was to build a home for themselves.

You've got to be kidding. You are still on that ridiculous tack. Of course the Zionists intended to evict the existing residents and they fully intended to establish a Jewish state, where 93% of the people were Christians and Muslims. And it was an invasion. An invasion need not be military. Just stop your nonsense.

(COMMENT)

The use of the term "invasion" (with the caveat: "An invasion need not be military.") is an intentional over sensationalization --- an appeal to emotion in an effort to overdramatize the immigration effort by the successive authorities (first the Ottoman Empire and then the successor government by the Mandatory).

The intent to remove or to evict the existing hostile indigenous population is an internal defense and development (IDAD) strategy, which seeks to end internal conflict (the potential for rear area disturbances or supply disruptions) by correcting the condition well before it becomes a problems. The hostile indigenous population has within it an insurgency. Insurgents are citizens of a country attempting by illegal means to change the way it is governed. They believe that the legal methods available cannot satisfy their demands. Thus, they violate the accepted legal processes of government and use illegal means, which are a combination of political, economic, psychological, and military methods.

· Insurgency. An attempt by an organized element to overthrow the legal government through subversion and armed co-threat.
· Political subversion. Guerilla and terrorist activities and is frequently supported by external activities.
​

The Hostile Arab Palestinian (HoAP) had demonstrated the potential problem they represented going back to the 1930 and the establishment of the Palestinian Black Hand. And while there was still no real conclusive intent to remove key populated areas of dense HoAP, the Arab Higher Committee made it absolutely crystal clear that the HoAP intentions:

• The Arabs of Palestine will never recognise the validity of the extorted partition recommendations or the authority of the United Nations to make them.
• The Arabs of Palestine consider that any attempt by the Jews or any power group of powers to establish a Jewish state in Arab territory is an act of aggression which will be resisted in self-defense.
• The Arabs of Palestine made a solemn declaration before the United Nations, before God and history, that they will never submit or yield to any power going to Palestine to enforce partition. The only way to establish partition is first to wipe them out — man, woman and child.

This all but sealed the strategy that would need to be employed.

Most Respectfully,
R

...the use of armed force against the territorial integrity and political independence of the new State of Israel.​

You always crack me up when you shovel that horseshit.

The rest of your post does not get any better.

 

[montelatici]

Rocco fails to mention that it is the "new European colonial state of Israel". Somehow he believes that the Hostile Natives should not have been hostile to a European takeover. I don't know where his morals come from.

 

[RoccoR]

"P F Tinmore, et al,

Yes, I quite understand that the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) believes that:

• Palestine, with the boundaries it had during the British Mandate, is an indivisible territorial unit, and their homeland.
• The Palestinian Arab people possess the legal right to their homeland and have the right to determine their destiny.
• The partition of Palestine in 1947 and the establishment of the state of Israel are entirely illegal.
• The Balfour Declaration, the Mandate for Palestine, and everything that has been based upon them, are deemed null and void.
• Israel is the instrument of the Zionist movement, and geographical base for world imperialism.
• Israel is a constant source of threat vis-a-vis peace in the Middle East and the whole world.
• There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad.
  
• Initiatives, and so-called peaceful solutions and international conferences, are in contradiction to the principles of the Islamic Resistance Movement.

...the use of armed force against the territorial integrity and political independence of the new State of Israel.​

You always crack me up when you shovel that horseshit.

The rest of your post does not get any better.

(COMMENT)

While I know what the HoAP believe, I find it almost inconceivable that they cannot observe the reality that: Israel is real. Israel completed the Steps Preparatory to Independence that were adopted by the General Assembly. Israel declared independence pursuant to UN instructions. Israel applied for UN Membership in the prescribed manner. The Security Council recommended approval and the motion was adopted by the General Assembly. What follows after that is entirely the fault of the Arab League, the Arab Higher Committee, and the HoAP adopted the path of conflict because they did not get what they wanted. And they have been refusing to negotiate in good faith ever since.

All that the Arab Palestinians are today, is what they deserve to be --- based on the choices they have made.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[montelatici]

"P F Tinmore, et al,

Yes, I quite understand that the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) believes that:

• Palestine, with the boundaries it had during the British Mandate, is an indivisible territorial unit, and their homeland.
• The Palestinian Arab people possess the legal right to their homeland and have the right to determine their destiny.
• The partition of Palestine in 1947 and the establishment of the state of Israel are entirely illegal.
• The Balfour Declaration, the Mandate for Palestine, and everything that has been based upon them, are deemed null and void.
• Israel is the instrument of the Zionist movement, and geographical base for world imperialism.
• Israel is a constant source of threat vis-a-vis peace in the Middle East and the whole world.
• There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad.
  
• Initiatives, and so-called peaceful solutions and international conferences, are in contradiction to the principles of the Islamic Resistance Movement.

...the use of armed force against the territorial integrity and political independence of the new State of Israel.​

You always crack me up when you shovel that horseshit.

The rest of your post does not get any better.

(COMMENT)

While I know what the HoAP believe, I find it almost inconceivable that they cannot observe the reality that: Israel is real. Israel completed the Steps Preparatory to Independence that were adopted by the General Assembly. Israel declared independence pursuant to UN instructions. Israel applied for UN Membership in the prescribed manner. The Security Council recommended approval and the motion was adopted by the General Assembly. What follows after that is entirely the fault of the Arab League, the Arab Higher Committee, and the HoAP adopted the path of conflict because they did not get what they wanted. And they have been refusing to negotiate in good faith ever since.

All that the Arab Palestinians are today, is what they deserve to be --- based on the choices they have made.

Most Respectfully,
R

Rocco et al:

People from Europe went to Palestine to evict the people there and create their own state. The Palestinians made the only rational choice, the choice that every people subjected to invasion and colonialism. Why are you so hardheaded not to see it? Is it cognitive dissonance?

The hostile pieces of shit were the Jews. They went from Europe to Palestine to take the land away from the inhabitants of Palestine. That's just a fact.

 

[P F Tinmore]

"P F Tinmore, et al,

Yes, I quite understand that the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) believes that:

• Palestine, with the boundaries it had during the British Mandate, is an indivisible territorial unit, and their homeland.
• The Palestinian Arab people possess the legal right to their homeland and have the right to determine their destiny.
• The partition of Palestine in 1947 and the establishment of the state of Israel are entirely illegal.
• The Balfour Declaration, the Mandate for Palestine, and everything that has been based upon them, are deemed null and void.
• Israel is the instrument of the Zionist movement, and geographical base for world imperialism.
• Israel is a constant source of threat vis-a-vis peace in the Middle East and the whole world.
• There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad.
  
• Initiatives, and so-called peaceful solutions and international conferences, are in contradiction to the principles of the Islamic Resistance Movement.

...the use of armed force against the territorial integrity and political independence of the new State of Israel.​

You always crack me up when you shovel that horseshit.

The rest of your post does not get any better.

(COMMENT)

While I know what the HoAP believe, I find it almost inconceivable that they cannot observe the reality that: Israel is real. Israel completed the Steps Preparatory to Independence that were adopted by the General Assembly. Israel declared independence pursuant to UN instructions. Israel applied for UN Membership in the prescribed manner. The Security Council recommended approval and the motion was adopted by the General Assembly. What follows after that is entirely the fault of the Arab League, the Arab Higher Committee, and the HoAP adopted the path of conflict because they did not get what they wanted. And they have been refusing to negotiate in good faith ever since.

All that the Arab Palestinians are today, is what they deserve to be --- based on the choices they have made.

Most Respectfully,
R

Same old shit, Rocco.

How about answering some of my questions that you have been ducking?

 

[toastman]

montelatici, et al,

I think that our friend "toastman" is correct. The Implication of an invasion is a an "offensive military action" by an external influence --- in which an aggressor force exits their sovereign territory and enters --- "by force" --- the sovereign territory controlled by a completely different political entity.

Relative to the Middle East, after WWI - the Ottoman Surrender - but prior to Israeli Independence, there was no "military invasion by an armed force" to takeover the territory ---until 15 May 1948, when the combined force of military contribution from Egypt, Jordan, Syria Iraq , Lebanon, and Saudi Arabia, --- supported by the Muslim Brotherhood, Yemen, Pakistan, and Sudan (collectively known as the Arab League), violated Article 1(2) - and - 2(4) of the UN Charter by the use of armed force against the territorial integrity and political independence of the new State of Israel.

On 14 May 1948, Britain relinquished its Mandate over Palestine and disengaged its forces. On the same day, the Jewish Agency proclaimed the establishment of the State of Israel on the territory allotted to it by the partition plan. Fierce hostilities immediately broke out between the Arab and Jewish communities. The next day, regular troops of the neighbouring Arab States entered the territory to assist the Palestinian Arabs. SOURCE: Page 10 - The first Arab-Israeli war, 1948-1949 - Chapter 2: The Partition Plan and the end of the British mandate - The Question of Palestine and the United Nations .

• NOTE:

The adoption of resolution 181 (II) was followed by outbreaks of violence in Palestine. As the situation deteriorated, the Security Council called for a special session of the General Assembly, which then met from 16 April to 14 May 1948. On 17 April, the Security Council called for the cessation of all military and paramilitary activities in Palestine, and on 23 April it established a Truce Commission to supervise and help bring about a ceasefire. For its part, the General Assembly relieved the Palestine Commission of its responsibilities and decided to appoint a mediator charged with promoting a peaceful settlement in cooperation with the Truce Commission. On 20 May, Count Folke Bernadotte, President of the Swedish Red Cross, was chosen as United Nations Mediator.​

Mass immigration with the intent to evict the people living on the and taking the land from those same people living on the land and then creating a state not of the indigenous people is an invasion. Sorry, that is not mass immigration. Thar's like calling the European invasion of the New World mass immigration. Why can't you see how ridiculous your position is?

An invasion is a military offensive . Their intention was not to evict anyone, it was to build a home for themselves.

You've got to be kidding. You are still on that ridiculous tack. Of course the Zionists intended to evict the existing residents and they fully intended to establish a Jewish state, where 93% of the people were Christians and Muslims. And it was an invasion. An invasion need not be military. Just stop your nonsense.

(COMMENT)

The use of the term "invasion" (with the caveat: "An invasion need not be military.") is an intentional over sensationalization --- an appeal to emotion in an effort to overdramatize the immigration effort by the successive authorities (first the Ottoman Empire and then the successor government by the Mandatory).

The intent to remove or to evict the existing hostile indigenous population is an internal defense and development (IDAD) strategy, which seeks to end internal conflict (the potential for rear area disturbances or supply disruptions) by correcting the condition well before it becomes a problems. The hostile indigenous population has within it an insurgency. Insurgents are citizens of a country attempting by illegal means to change the way it is governed. They believe that the legal methods available cannot satisfy their demands. Thus, they violate the accepted legal processes of government and use illegal means, which are a combination of political, economic, psychological, and military methods.

· Insurgency. An attempt by an organized element to overthrow the legal government through subversion and armed co-threat.
· Political subversion. Guerilla and terrorist activities and is frequently supported by external activities.
​

The Hostile Arab Palestinian (HoAP) had demonstrated the potential problem they represented going back to the 1930 and the establishment of the Palestinian Black Hand. And while there was still no real conclusive intent to remove key populated areas of dense HoAP, the Arab Higher Committee made it absolutely crystal clear that the HoAP intentions:

• The Arabs of Palestine will never recognise the validity of the extorted partition recommendations or the authority of the United Nations to make them.
• The Arabs of Palestine consider that any attempt by the Jews or any power group of powers to establish a Jewish state in Arab territory is an act of aggression which will be resisted in self-defense.
• The Arabs of Palestine made a solemn declaration before the United Nations, before God and history, that they will never submit or yield to any power going to Palestine to enforce partition. The only way to establish partition is first to wipe them out — man, woman and child.

This all but sealed the strategy that would need to be employed.

Most Respectfully,
R

...the use of armed force against the territorial integrity and political independence of the new State of Israel.​

You always crack me up when you shovel that horseshit.

The rest of your post does not get any better.

In other words, you have no rebuttal for anything Rocco posts , as usual, as he refutes every single one of your lies.

 

[toastman]

"P F Tinmore, et al,

Yes, I quite understand that the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) believes that:

• Palestine, with the boundaries it had during the British Mandate, is an indivisible territorial unit, and their homeland.
• The Palestinian Arab people possess the legal right to their homeland and have the right to determine their destiny.
• The partition of Palestine in 1947 and the establishment of the state of Israel are entirely illegal.
• The Balfour Declaration, the Mandate for Palestine, and everything that has been based upon them, are deemed null and void.
• Israel is the instrument of the Zionist movement, and geographical base for world imperialism.
• Israel is a constant source of threat vis-a-vis peace in the Middle East and the whole world.
• There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad.
  
• Initiatives, and so-called peaceful solutions and international conferences, are in contradiction to the principles of the Islamic Resistance Movement.

...the use of armed force against the territorial integrity and political independence of the new State of Israel.​

You always crack me up when you shovel that horseshit.

The rest of your post does not get any better.

(COMMENT)

While I know what the HoAP believe, I find it almost inconceivable that they cannot observe the reality that: Israel is real. Israel completed the Steps Preparatory to Independence that were adopted by the General Assembly. Israel declared independence pursuant to UN instructions. Israel applied for UN Membership in the prescribed manner. The Security Council recommended approval and the motion was adopted by the General Assembly. What follows after that is entirely the fault of the Arab League, the Arab Higher Committee, and the HoAP adopted the path of conflict because they did not get what they wanted. And they have been refusing to negotiate in good faith ever since.

All that the Arab Palestinians are today, is what they deserve to be --- based on the choices they have made.

Most Respectfully,
R

Rocco et al:

People from Europe went to Palestine to evict the people there and create their own state. The Palestinians made the only rational choice, the choice that every people subjected to invasion and colonialism. Why are you so hardheaded not to see it? Is it cognitive dissonance?

The hostile pieces of shit were the Jews. They went from Europe to Palestine to take the land away from the inhabitants of Palestine. That's just a fact.

No, the hostile pieces of shit were the Arabs, as they had massacred and killed Jews before any Arabs were killed. That's just a fact that you cannot handle.

And the European Jews went there not to evict anyone, but to create a Jewish home for themselves, as promised by the British. That's just a fact.
Where is your proof that all the Jews went there to evict the locals ?

 

[toastman]

"P F Tinmore, et al,

Yes, I quite understand that the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) believes that:

• Palestine, with the boundaries it had during the British Mandate, is an indivisible territorial unit, and their homeland.
• The Palestinian Arab people possess the legal right to their homeland and have the right to determine their destiny.
• The partition of Palestine in 1947 and the establishment of the state of Israel are entirely illegal.
• The Balfour Declaration, the Mandate for Palestine, and everything that has been based upon them, are deemed null and void.
• Israel is the instrument of the Zionist movement, and geographical base for world imperialism.
• Israel is a constant source of threat vis-a-vis peace in the Middle East and the whole world.
• There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad.
  
• Initiatives, and so-called peaceful solutions and international conferences, are in contradiction to the principles of the Islamic Resistance Movement.

...the use of armed force against the territorial integrity and political independence of the new State of Israel.​

You always crack me up when you shovel that horseshit.

The rest of your post does not get any better.

(COMMENT)

While I know what the HoAP believe, I find it almost inconceivable that they cannot observe the reality that: Israel is real. Israel completed the Steps Preparatory to Independence that were adopted by the General Assembly. Israel declared independence pursuant to UN instructions. Israel applied for UN Membership in the prescribed manner. The Security Council recommended approval and the motion was adopted by the General Assembly. What follows after that is entirely the fault of the Arab League, the Arab Higher Committee, and the HoAP adopted the path of conflict because they did not get what they wanted. And they have been refusing to negotiate in good faith ever since.

All that the Arab Palestinians are today, is what they deserve to be --- based on the choices they have made.

Most Respectfully,
R

Same old shit, Rocco.

How about answering some of my questions that you have been ducking?

Another great rebuttal

You're on a role Tinmore.

 

[toastman]

An invasion is a military offensive . Their intention was not to evict anyone, it was to build a home for themselves.

That is true and Britain's military was in the service of the Zionists.

LINK ?

I realize that Israel supporters are not deep thinkers. Look at the highlights of the League of Nations Covenant as applied to mandates.

"...which are inhabited by peoples not yet able to stand by themselves..."

"...the well-being and development of such peoples form a sacred trust..."

"...the tutelage of such peoples should be entrusted..."

"...the rendering of administrative advice and assistance by a Mandatory until such time as they are able to stand alone."​

If Britain followed the Covenant it could have accomplished its goal with a handful of civilians. Yet it kept its military presence and actually increased its troop strength in the '30s.

So what's up with all that military?

FIrst off, nowhere in your link does it answer Phoenall's question.

Second, it's obvious why their military was there. All you have to do is go back to the time to when the British came to the region and how.

The answer to my question is the answer to his question.

Translation: I have no answer to your question, so I came up with this tacky response.

As usual, all you have are lies. It's no wonder Monti and you agree with each other.

You should call each other the propaganda brothers

 

[montelatici]

"P F Tinmore, et al,

Yes, I quite understand that the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) believes that:

• Palestine, with the boundaries it had during the British Mandate, is an indivisible territorial unit, and their homeland.
• The Palestinian Arab people possess the legal right to their homeland and have the right to determine their destiny.
• The partition of Palestine in 1947 and the establishment of the state of Israel are entirely illegal.
• The Balfour Declaration, the Mandate for Palestine, and everything that has been based upon them, are deemed null and void.
• Israel is the instrument of the Zionist movement, and geographical base for world imperialism.
• Israel is a constant source of threat vis-a-vis peace in the Middle East and the whole world.
• There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad.
  
• Initiatives, and so-called peaceful solutions and international conferences, are in contradiction to the principles of the Islamic Resistance Movement.

...the use of armed force against the territorial integrity and political independence of the new State of Israel.​

You always crack me up when you shovel that horseshit.

The rest of your post does not get any better.

(COMMENT)

While I know what the HoAP believe, I find it almost inconceivable that they cannot observe the reality that: Israel is real. Israel completed the Steps Preparatory to Independence that were adopted by the General Assembly. Israel declared independence pursuant to UN instructions. Israel applied for UN Membership in the prescribed manner. The Security Council recommended approval and the motion was adopted by the General Assembly. What follows after that is entirely the fault of the Arab League, the Arab Higher Committee, and the HoAP adopted the path of conflict because they did not get what they wanted. And they have been refusing to negotiate in good faith ever since.

All that the Arab Palestinians are today, is what they deserve to be --- based on the choices they have made.

Most Respectfully,
R

Rocco et al:

People from Europe went to Palestine to evict the people there and create their own state. The Palestinians made the only rational choice, the choice that every people subjected to invasion and colonialism. Why are you so hardheaded not to see it? Is it cognitive dissonance?

The hostile pieces of shit were the Jews. They went from Europe to Palestine to take the land away from the inhabitants of Palestine. That's just a fact.

No, the hostile pieces of shit were the Arabs, as they had massacred and killed Jews before any Arabs were killed. That's just a fact that you cannot handle.

And the European Jews went there not to evict anyone, but to create a Jewish home for themselves, as promised by the British. That's just a fact.
Where is your proof that all the Jews went there to evict the locals ?

But the Christians were living in Palestine and the Jews were living in Europe and went to Palestine and evicted them and took their land to create a Jewish state. That's just a fact. That is what happened. What more proof do you need. There is now a Jewish State. I really can't understand your cognitive dissonance. Plus, what authority did the British have to expel the Christians to make room for the Jews.

 

[toastman]

"P F Tinmore, et al,

Yes, I quite understand that the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) believes that:

• Palestine, with the boundaries it had during the British Mandate, is an indivisible territorial unit, and their homeland.
• The Palestinian Arab people possess the legal right to their homeland and have the right to determine their destiny.
• The partition of Palestine in 1947 and the establishment of the state of Israel are entirely illegal.
• The Balfour Declaration, the Mandate for Palestine, and everything that has been based upon them, are deemed null and void.
• Israel is the instrument of the Zionist movement, and geographical base for world imperialism.
• Israel is a constant source of threat vis-a-vis peace in the Middle East and the whole world.
• There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad.
  
• Initiatives, and so-called peaceful solutions and international conferences, are in contradiction to the principles of the Islamic Resistance Movement.

...the use of armed force against the territorial integrity and political independence of the new State of Israel.​

You always crack me up when you shovel that horseshit.

The rest of your post does not get any better.

(COMMENT)

While I know what the HoAP believe, I find it almost inconceivable that they cannot observe the reality that: Israel is real. Israel completed the Steps Preparatory to Independence that were adopted by the General Assembly. Israel declared independence pursuant to UN instructions. Israel applied for UN Membership in the prescribed manner. The Security Council recommended approval and the motion was adopted by the General Assembly. What follows after that is entirely the fault of the Arab League, the Arab Higher Committee, and the HoAP adopted the path of conflict because they did not get what they wanted. And they have been refusing to negotiate in good faith ever since.

All that the Arab Palestinians are today, is what they deserve to be --- based on the choices they have made.

Most Respectfully,
R

Rocco et al:

People from Europe went to Palestine to evict the people there and create their own state. The Palestinians made the only rational choice, the choice that every people subjected to invasion and colonialism. Why are you so hardheaded not to see it? Is it cognitive dissonance?

The hostile pieces of shit were the Jews. They went from Europe to Palestine to take the land away from the inhabitants of Palestine. That's just a fact.

No, the hostile pieces of shit were the Arabs, as they had massacred and killed Jews before any Arabs were killed. That's just a fact that you cannot handle.

And the European Jews went there not to evict anyone, but to create a Jewish home for themselves, as promised by the British. That's just a fact.
Where is your proof that all the Jews went there to evict the locals ?

But the Christians were living in Palestine and the Jews were living in Europe and went to Palestine and evicted them and took their land to create a Jewish state. That's just a fact. That is what happened. What more proof do you need. There is now a Jewish State. I really can't understand your cognitive dissonance. Plus, what authority did the British have to expel the Christians to make room for the Jews.

That was not their intention. They left Europe for obvious reasons because the British, who captured the region from the Ottomans, not the Palestinians, promised them a Jewish Homeland. The local Arabs, during the Palestine Civil war of 1947 and during the 1948 war (with the help of FIVE other countries) tried to expel the local Jews and the European ones. The problem is, the Jews fought harder then them and instead they got expelled. Attacking people have consequences.

 

[toastman]

"P F Tinmore, et al,

Yes, I quite understand that the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) believes that:

• Palestine, with the boundaries it had during the British Mandate, is an indivisible territorial unit, and their homeland.
• The Palestinian Arab people possess the legal right to their homeland and have the right to determine their destiny.
• The partition of Palestine in 1947 and the establishment of the state of Israel are entirely illegal.
• The Balfour Declaration, the Mandate for Palestine, and everything that has been based upon them, are deemed null and void.
• Israel is the instrument of the Zionist movement, and geographical base for world imperialism.
• Israel is a constant source of threat vis-a-vis peace in the Middle East and the whole world.
• There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad.
  
• Initiatives, and so-called peaceful solutions and international conferences, are in contradiction to the principles of the Islamic Resistance Movement.

...the use of armed force against the territorial integrity and political independence of the new State of Israel.​

You always crack me up when you shovel that horseshit.

The rest of your post does not get any better.

(COMMENT)

While I know what the HoAP believe, I find it almost inconceivable that they cannot observe the reality that: Israel is real. Israel completed the Steps Preparatory to Independence that were adopted by the General Assembly. Israel declared independence pursuant to UN instructions. Israel applied for UN Membership in the prescribed manner. The Security Council recommended approval and the motion was adopted by the General Assembly. What follows after that is entirely the fault of the Arab League, the Arab Higher Committee, and the HoAP adopted the path of conflict because they did not get what they wanted. And they have been refusing to negotiate in good faith ever since.

All that the Arab Palestinians are today, is what they deserve to be --- based on the choices they have made.

Most Respectfully,
R

Rocco et al:

People from Europe went to Palestine to evict the people there and create their own state. The Palestinians made the only rational choice, the choice that every people subjected to invasion and colonialism. Why are you so hardheaded not to see it? Is it cognitive dissonance?

The hostile pieces of shit were the Jews. They went from Europe to Palestine to take the land away from the inhabitants of Palestine. That's just a fact.

No, the hostile pieces of shit were the Arabs, as they had massacred and killed Jews before any Arabs were killed. That's just a fact that you cannot handle.

And the European Jews went there not to evict anyone, but to create a Jewish home for themselves, as promised by the British. That's just a fact.
Where is your proof that all the Jews went there to evict the locals ?

But the Christians were living in Palestine and the Jews were living in Europe and went to Palestine and evicted them and took their land to create a Jewish state. That's just a fact. That is what happened. What more proof do you need. There is now a Jewish State. I really can't understand your cognitive dissonance. Plus, what authority did the British have to expel the Christians to make room for the Jews.

The British didn't have the authority to expel anyone , and they didn't. Where did you get that from ?

 

[montelatici]

"P F Tinmore, et al,

Yes, I quite understand that the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) believes that:

• Palestine, with the boundaries it had during the British Mandate, is an indivisible territorial unit, and their homeland.
• The Palestinian Arab people possess the legal right to their homeland and have the right to determine their destiny.
• The partition of Palestine in 1947 and the establishment of the state of Israel are entirely illegal.
• The Balfour Declaration, the Mandate for Palestine, and everything that has been based upon them, are deemed null and void.
• Israel is the instrument of the Zionist movement, and geographical base for world imperialism.
• Israel is a constant source of threat vis-a-vis peace in the Middle East and the whole world.
• There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad.
  
• Initiatives, and so-called peaceful solutions and international conferences, are in contradiction to the principles of the Islamic Resistance Movement.

You always crack me up when you shovel that horseshit.

The rest of your post does not get any better.

(COMMENT)

While I know what the HoAP believe, I find it almost inconceivable that they cannot observe the reality that: Israel is real. Israel completed the Steps Preparatory to Independence that were adopted by the General Assembly. Israel declared independence pursuant to UN instructions. Israel applied for UN Membership in the prescribed manner. The Security Council recommended approval and the motion was adopted by the General Assembly. What follows after that is entirely the fault of the Arab League, the Arab Higher Committee, and the HoAP adopted the path of conflict because they did not get what they wanted. And they have been refusing to negotiate in good faith ever since.

All that the Arab Palestinians are today, is what they deserve to be --- based on the choices they have made.

Most Respectfully,
R

Rocco et al:

People from Europe went to Palestine to evict the people there and create their own state. The Palestinians made the only rational choice, the choice that every people subjected to invasion and colonialism. Why are you so hardheaded not to see it? Is it cognitive dissonance?

The hostile pieces of shit were the Jews. They went from Europe to Palestine to take the land away from the inhabitants of Palestine. That's just a fact.

No, the hostile pieces of shit were the Arabs, as they had massacred and killed Jews before any Arabs were killed. That's just a fact that you cannot handle.

And the European Jews went there not to evict anyone, but to create a Jewish home for themselves, as promised by the British. That's just a fact.
Where is your proof that all the Jews went there to evict the locals ?

But the Christians were living in Palestine and the Jews were living in Europe and went to Palestine and evicted them and took their land to create a Jewish state. That's just a fact. That is what happened. What more proof do you need. There is now a Jewish State. I really can't understand your cognitive dissonance. Plus, what authority did the British have to expel the Christians to make room for the Jews.

That was not their intention. They left Europe for obvious reasons because the British, who captured the region from the Ottomans, not the Palestinians, promised them a Jewish Homeland. The local Arabs, during the Palestine Civil war of 1947 and during the 1948 war (with the help of FIVE other countries) tried to expel the local Jews and the European ones. The problem is, the Jews fought harder then them and instead they got expelled. Attacking people have consequences.

Of course it was the intention of the European Jews to expel the Christians. Why else would have they gone to Palestine?

"Spirit the penniless population across the frontier by denying it employment… Both the process of expropriation and the removal of the poor must be carried out discreetly and circumspectly.” Theodore Herzl, founder of the World Zionist Organization, speaking of the Arabs of Palestine,Complete Diaries, June 12, 1895 entry.“We must expropriate gently the private property on the state assigned to us. We shall try to spirit the penniless population across the border by procuring employment for it in the transit countries, while denying it employment in our country. The property owners will come over to our side. Both the process of expropriation and the removal of the poor must be carried out discretely and circumspectly. Let the owners of the immoveable property believe that they are cheating us, selling us things for more than they are worth. But we are not going to sell them anything back.”
(Theodore Herzl, 12 June 1895)

But there are Arabs in Palestine. I did not know.”
(Max Nordau, 1897)