Did the Founders want a LIMITED Federal Government?

[bigrebnc1775]

Hamilton was to our Federal Republic what Benedict Arnold was to the Revolution.

President Washington tended to favor Hamilton over Jefferson on these kinds of philosophy-policy disputes within his Cabinet (see the First Bank of the United States, debt assumption, the expansion of the federal bureaucracy, particularly Hamilton's Treasury Department, etc). What does that make George Washington?

Hamilton is the equivalent to today’s big banker that the left is suppose to hate.

 

[Intense]

Hamilton was to our Federal Republic what Benedict Arnold was to the Revolution.

President Washington tended to favor Hamilton over Jefferson on these kinds of philosophy-policy disputes within his Cabinet (see the First Bank of the United States, debt assumption, the expansion of the federal bureaucracy, particularly Hamilton's Treasury Department, etc). What does that make George Washington?

My bet is Hamilton talked circles around Washington and ran the Administration with Washington in the dark. He did it for a time under Adams until Adams wised up. Hamilton was a power hungry charlatan., as a true Federalist. We were played.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Having read this page, I simply shake my head at the general nonsense here about definitions and early American history and about the Constitution.

From the truly intelligent and educated, like Intense, to the truly ignorant and illiterate, like bigrebnc, you all are twisting your facts to fit your philosophies, instead of twisting your philosophies to fit the facts.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Having read this page, I simply shake my head at the general nonsense here about definitions and early American history and about the Constitution.

From the truly intelligent and educated, like Intense, to the truly ignorant and illiterate, like bigrebnc, you all are twisting your facts to fit your philosophies, instead of twisting your philosophies to fit the facts.

Goofball has does it feel to be beaten by someone who you think is ignorant and illiterate? Have fun with that thought.

 

[Agit8r]

From what I understand of Hamilton, he was a principled man who had an excessively cynical outlook on "human nature" (probably from his upbringing on a sugar-slaving island). It is an ironic contrast to the ideas of the Age of Reason that the Jeffersonians aspired to; that people are inherently good, and only corrupted by circumstances after their birth.

 

[Agit8r]

Anti-lynching laws are redundant, as there are already anti-murder laws on the books as I already stated. As for the Civil Rights Act, as Rand pointed out, telling people who they have to serve on their own property is unconstitutional. The 14th Amendment declares that "No State... etc.. etc.." Meaning that no state can pass a law that says black people can't eat at the same restaurant as white people, but it does not say that people can't exclude whomever they want from their own private property.

What authority licenses a business? What authority charters a corporation?

What authority gives said "authority" the authority to require a license or charter? Not the Constitution.

"The idea that institutions, established for the use of the nation, cannot be touched nor modified, even to make them answer their end, because of the rights gratuitously supposed in those employed to manage them in trust for the public, may, perhaps be a salutary provision against the abuses of a monarch, but it is most absurd against the nation itself"

-- Thomas Jefferson; letter to William Plumer (1819)

 

[Intense]

From what I understand of Hamilton, he was a principled man who had an excessively cynical outlook on "human nature" (probably from his upbringing on a sugar-slaving island). It is an ironic contrast to the ideas of the Age of Reason that the Jeffersonians aspired to; that people are inherently good, and only corrupted by circumstances after their birth.

There is much to be said about learned behavior, both good and bad. We are taught to give the benefit of the doubt and leave room for correction. Personally I believe we are worth more than the consequences of our actions, and tangents, when we plug unto our reason for being. When you plug into clarity of purpose, lend me some, I'm flying with low visibility right now. Or better yet, take point.

 

[Intense]

~ Secretary of the Treasury ~


He proposed, therefore, to pay the nation's debts in full and also to assume the unpaid debts of the various states. He urged this candidly as a means of both diminishing the fiscal importance of the states and cementing the loyalty of wealthy commercial interests to the federal government. With the nation's economy thus buttressed and biased toward commerce, Hamilton proposed that a national bank be established to help the federal government manage the nation's trade and finance. These proposals were accepted by Congress, and the Bank of the United States was chartered in 1791. His recommendations for a broad range of tariffs and bounties to stimulate the growth of manufacturing were not adopted at this time, however.


Hamilton's plans were so comprehensive and so brilliantly useful to commercial expansion that he aroused the opposition of Madison, Jefferson, and others who believed that such a strong government, informally allied as it was with the worldwide trading dominance of Great Britain, would subordinate agriculture and subvert the republican ideals of the American Revolution. Scorning the Jeffersonians as timid and backward-looking, Hamilton, with Washington's continuing support, organized a congressional majority for his policies.


He then took the lead in urging rapprochement with Great Britain, which culminated in Jay's Treaty (1794), and in firmly suppressing the so-called Whiskey Rebellion (1794), which was provoked by his excise taxes. By the time he retired from the Treasury Department in 1795, he had established the administrative and policy foundations of the new government, articulated a philosophy of "loose construction" of the Constitution, and founded, informally, the conservative Federalist Party as the instrument of his intentions.
~ Later Years ~
On leaving the government Hamilton resumed a busy and lucrative law practice. He continued to have a strong influence in the public councils, however. He supported a defiant posture toward France during the XYZ Affair (1798), and as inspector general of the army (1798-1800) he took charge of organizing the nation's defenses. Bitterly disappointed in President John Adam's erratic leadership, Hamilton openly opposed Adams's reelection in 1800. When it appeared, however, that Aaron Burr might win the presidency over Jefferson, Hamilton unhesitatingly threw his support to Jefferson, whose policies he scorned, rather than to Burr, whom he regarded as a man without principles.


This and other opposition by Hamilton so frustrated and angered Burr that he challenged Hamilton to a duel. The two men fought at Weehawken, N.J., on July 11, 1804. Hamilton apparently fired into the air, but Burr took direct aim. Hamilton fell mortally wounded and died the next day in New York. He was buried in Trinity churchyard, New York City. He left his wife and seven children heavily in debt, but friends soon paid off the debts. Hamilton was mourned by his countrymen as one who had devoted his life to the nation's growth in freedom and prosperity

Alexander Hamilton

More flattering than his worth, in my opinion. I must remember to visit his grave. I owe Burr a beer in the next life.

 

[Sunni Man]

Few Americans know that Hamilton mother was a jew.

And that he grew up in a jewish community on the island of Nevis.

So it was a given that he pushed for the Bank of the United States.

And wanted to put the American Goyim into perpetual debt.

A pattern still followed today by the zionist controlled Federal Reserve which owes it's beginnings to Hamilton.


"Indeed, some readers may know that Alexander Hamilton, whose likeness appears on the ten-dollar bill and who was the first secretary of the treasury of the United States, was born on the island of Nevis. Most readers, however, will probably be surprised to learn that Nevis at one time contained a vibrant Jewish community with a synagogue and Jewish cemetery."

The Jews Of Nevis And Alexander Hamilton,Dr. Yitzchok Levine

 

[Intense]

Few Americans know that Hamilton mother was a jew.

And that he grew up in a jewish community on the island of Nevis.

So it was a given that he pushed for the Bank of the United States.

And wanted to put the American Goyim into perpetual debt.

A pattern still followed today by the zionist controlled Federal Reserve which owes it's beginnings to Hamilton.


"Indeed, some readers may know that Alexander Hamilton, whose likeness appears on the ten-dollar bill and who was the first secretary of the treasury of the United States, was born on the island of Nevis. Most readers, however, will probably be surprised to learn that Nevis at one time contained a vibrant Jewish community with a synagogue and Jewish cemetery."

The Jews Of Nevis And Alexander Hamilton,Dr. Yitzchok Levine

Lets equate the construction with a National Bank or a Corporation set up by Government for expediency and convenience to the Conquering of a Foreign land and the powers the government will possess then. Our battle cry will be "The End Justifies The Means". Not Why Could We, Why Should We,-Because We Can!" Why would a proclaimed Federalist construct a Bank rooted in Nationalist Principles????? What did he find so offensive about Federalist Principles??? Not enough Horsepower for his vision of Empire Rule???


"It is not denied that there are implied well as express powers, and that the former are as effectually delegated as the tatter. And for the sake of accuracy it shall be mentioned, that there is another class of powers, which may be properly denominated resting powers. It will not be doubted, that if the United States should make a conquest of any of the territories of its neighbors, they would possess sovereign jurisdiction over the conquered territory. This would be rather a result, from the whole mass of the powers of the government, and from the nature of political society, than a consequence of either of the powers specially enumerated.

But be this as it may, it furnishes a striking illustration of the general doctrine contended for; it shows an extensive case in which a power of erecting corporations is either implied in or would result from, some or all of the powers vested in the national government. The jurisdiction acquired over such conquered country would certainly be competent to any species of legislation.

To return: It is conceded that implied powers are to be considered as delegated equally with express ones. Then it follows, that as a power of erecting a corporation may as well be implied as any other thing, it may as well be employed as an instrument or mean of carrying into execution any of the specified powers, as any other instrument or mean whatever. The only question must be in this, as in every other case, whether the mean to be employed or in this instance, the corporation to be erected, has a natural relation to any of the acknowledged objects or lawful ends of the government. Thus a corporation may not be erected by Congress for superintending the police of the city of Philadelphia, because they are not authorized to regulate the police of that city. But one may be erected in relation to the collection of taxes, or to the trade with foreign countries, or to the trade between the States, or with the Indian tribes; because it is the province of the federal government to regulate those objects, and because it is incident to a general sovereign or legislative power to regulate a thing, to employ all the means which relate to its regulation to the best and greatest advantage.

A strange fallacy seems to have crept into the manner of thinking and reasoning upon the subject. Imagination appears to have been unusually busy concerning it. An incorporation seems to have been regarded as some great independent substantive thing; as a political end of peculiar magnitude and moment; whereas it is truly to be considered as a quality, capacity, or mean to an end. Thus a mercantile company is formed, with a certain capital, for the purpose of carrying on a particular branch of business. Here the business to be prosecuted is the end. The association, in order to form the requisite capital, is the primary mean. Suppose that an incorporation were added to this, it would only be to add a new quality to that association, to give it an artificial capacity, by which it would be enabled to prosecute the business with more safety and convenience." -Hamilton


Hamilton: The Constitutionality of the Bank of the United States, 1791

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

Hamilton was to our Federal Republic what Benedict Arnold was to the Revolution.

President Washington tended to favor Hamilton over Jefferson on these kinds of philosophy-policy disputes within his Cabinet (see the First Bank of the United States, debt assumption, the expansion of the federal bureaucracy, particularly Hamilton's Treasury Department, etc). What does that make George Washington?

Overrated as President.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

What authority licenses a business? What authority charters a corporation?

What authority gives said "authority" the authority to require a license or charter? Not the Constitution.

"The idea that institutions, established for the use of the nation, cannot be touched nor modified, even to make them answer their end, because of the rights gratuitously supposed in those employed to manage them in trust for the public, may, perhaps be a salutary provision against the abuses of a monarch, but it is most absurd against the nation itself"

-- Thomas Jefferson; letter to William Plumer (1819)

Doesn't answer the question.

 

[Intense]

Hamilton was to our Federal Republic what Benedict Arnold was to the Revolution.

President Washington tended to favor Hamilton over Jefferson on these kinds of philosophy-policy disputes within his Cabinet (see the First Bank of the United States, debt assumption, the expansion of the federal bureaucracy, particularly Hamilton's Treasury Department, etc). What does that make George Washington?

Overrated as President.

I suspect Hamilton ran the 3 ring circus. Very pushy in his writings, manipulative.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Hamilton was to our Federal Republic what Benedict Arnold was to the Revolution.

President Washington tended to favor Hamilton over Jefferson on these kinds of philosophy-policy disputes within his Cabinet (see the First Bank of the United States, debt assumption, the expansion of the federal bureaucracy, particularly Hamilton's Treasury Department, etc). What does that make George Washington?

Overrated as President.

Who's overrated?

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

President Washington tended to favor Hamilton over Jefferson on these kinds of philosophy-policy disputes within his Cabinet (see the First Bank of the United States, debt assumption, the expansion of the federal bureaucracy, particularly Hamilton's Treasury Department, etc). What does that make George Washington?

Overrated as President.

I suspect Hamilton ran the 3 ring circus. Very pushy in his writings, manipulative.

Washington let it happen, however.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

President Washington tended to favor Hamilton over Jefferson on these kinds of philosophy-policy disputes within his Cabinet (see the First Bank of the United States, debt assumption, the expansion of the federal bureaucracy, particularly Hamilton's Treasury Department, etc). What does that make George Washington?

Overrated as President.

Who's overrated?

George Washington.

 

[JakeStarkey]

George Washington was a nationalist, a big government guy who had no trouble with the U.S. owning 20% of the 1st Bank, and a guy who thought 13,000 troops should be enough to put down a Whiskey Tax revolt in western Pennsylvania.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Overrated as President.

Who's overrated?

George Washington.

yell that's what I though you meant.
obama carter wilson FDR Johnson are overrated as presidents.
Thanks to Washington you have the right to critize him

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

Who's overrated?

George Washington.

yell that's what I though you meant.
obama carter wilson FDR Johnson are overrated as presidents.
Thanks to Washington you have the right to critize him

I don't know that Carter is overrated, but you're right about the others. But Jake is absolutely right about George Washington. He was a big government guy. He was a Federalist in all but name only.

 

[Intense]

George Washington was a nationalist, a big government guy who had no trouble with the U.S. owning 20% of the 1st Bank, and a guy who thought 13,000 troops should be enough to put down a Whiskey Tax revolt in western Pennsylvania.

That was brought on by his unfair tax plan that gave the break to the Big companies and unfairly burdened the small distillers.