Zone1 Did Jesus meet Judas during His seventy two hours in "hell?"

[DennisPTate]

Near death experiencer Kevin L. Zadai Th. D. reports being shown that Jesus actually went to "hell" during the time before His resurrection.

Assuming that Messiah Yeshua - Jesus was crucified on a Wednesday, took his fellow "thief on the cross" for a hour or so tour of "paradise" on Wednesday afternoon before sunset.

Then Wednesday at sunset in 31. C. E. began a High Sabbath, the first day of Unleavened Bread which commemorated the twelve tribes of Israel being led out of Egypt. This First Day of Unleavened Bread would go from Wednesday sunset to Thursday at sunset. My guess would be that at sunset Wednesday, as the First Day of Unleavened Bread began, Jesus went to hell itself.

On Friday the women who were going to Rabbi Yeshua- Jesus's burial prepared the spices and then they rested on the weekly Sabbath, from Friday at sunset until Saturday at sunset.

Assuming seventy two hours in the "heart of the earth" we come to a late Saturday afternoon resurrection of Messiah Yeshua - Jesus.

Did Judas commit suicide during the three days that Jesus was in the grave before His resurrection late on the Sabbath, [or if Jesus went to hell on Wednesday at sunset perhaps the resurrection was as the weekly Sabbath ended]?

Near death experiencer Kevin Zadai Th. D. "Touch of the Master's Hand" Level 1, chapter two :

"Even in the Book of Acts, Peter is quoting the Prophets and says, “You will not leave my soul in hell.” Peter quotes it in the Book of Acts that Jesus was in hell. You know, it's hard for people to grasp and they get upset. Jesus had to be turned over and punished for our sins. Which means He had to go to hell. He had to go to that lowest part where the most vilest person would go without intervention, and He had to intervene. He had to take the place of the vilest person that would ever live and die and go to hell so that He can redeem them. That's the biggest part of this. He's redeemed us, and He's carried our weaknesses. It says here He carried our weaknesses in verse four, it was our sorrows that weighed Him down. He carried everything that you're going through right now already. It says it weighed Him down. This is like a long time ago. He's already done it for you. So, no matter what you're going through right now, what you have gone through in the past, or what you're going to go through tomorrow that you don't even know about, He's already carried all that." [Near death experiencer Kevin Zadai Th. D., Touch of the Master's Hand" Level 1, chapter two].

[Near death experiencer Kevin Zadai Th. D.] : "Jesus shared with me about the time He spent in hell after dying on the cross. He said during the time He was cut off from the Father and the Holy Spirit, He experienced torment and punishment for everyone's sins so that we could escape the pain and punishment we deserve. no human being needs to go to hell because Jesus paid the debt created by all our sins.

He was extremely passionate when He talked about His anguish of separation from God. He said that He had to go deep within Himself to remember and rehearse His identity with the Father because circumstances were screaming the opposite.

ABANDONED BY GOD

Think about it: Jesus had never experienced a moment without the Father's presence until He was dying on the cross and uttered, "'Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani?' that it, 'My God, My God, why have you forsaken Me?'" [Matthew 27:46] Satan thought he had defeated Jesus until He received the command from the Father to walk out of hell and take with Him the righteous dead. The Apostle Paul reported in the book of Ephesians, "When He ascended on high, He led captivity captive, and gave gifts to men" [Ephesians 4:8-9]. In Revelation 1:18, Jesus said of Himself, "I am He who lives, and was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore, Amen. And I have the keys of Hades and of Death."

The Father promised Jesus that by His following through with the salvation plan, God would unite humanity with Him in a plan for their redemption. Jesus expressed to me with great emotion, in a broken voice, the anguish He went through for us and His great longing that I share its importance with everyone who would listen:
"And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross. Therefore God also has highly exalted Him and given Him the name which is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth, and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. Philippians 2L8-11."

[Heavenly Visitation, Encountering the Supernatural Jesus, Outreach Edition, Kevin L. Zadai Th. D., page 15 - 17].

Heavenly Reality | Kevin Zadai





Sid Roth's Introduction of Dr. Kevin L. Zadai and His Near-Death Encounter with Jesus Christ.

 

[luiza]

The Essene monk was bought from his crucifixion and lived around another 30 years , latterly touring Asia Minor with his elder son .
He certainly did not go to an invented place named Hell .

The Church invented that place as yet another control mechanism for the Sheeple .

Guilt from Fear -- the same tired formula .

 

[DennisPTate]

The Essene monk was bought from his crucifixion and lived around another 30 years , latterly touring Asia Minor with his elder son .
He certainly did not go to an invented place named Hell .

The Church invented that place as yet another control mechanism for the Sheeple .

Guilt from Fear -- the same tired formula .

Which Essene Monk are you referring to?

Apparently pretty much the entire Essene community was betrayed to the Romans in the years before Jerusalem was sacked by the Roman Legions.

 

[luiza]

Which Essene Monk are you referring to?

Apparently pretty much the entire Essene community was betrayed to the Romans in the years before Jerusalem was sacked by the Roman Legions.

The Essene leader --- after cousin John was killed --- was nowhere near Jerusalem before he died several years before the Roman's overthrew the zealots at Massala in 70CE

 

[DennisPTate]

The Essene leader --- after cousin John was killed --- was nowhere near Jerusalem before he died several years before the Roman's overthrew the zealots at Massala in 70CE

This is an interesting comment that to at least some degree seems to fit with the possible alternative universe of the first century that may have been shown to near death experiencer Bruce F. MacDonald Ph. D.

There are of course other ways to understand the NDE of Bruce MacDonald but this is the easiest one for me at this time. Bruce F. MacDonald verifies the tradition from India that Doubting Thomas or Judas Didymus Thomas, [The Twin], lived out his life and was eventually martyred in India.

"So, do not fear what people can do to your body, because you will have many more of those. Rather, avoid those who can kill the soul within you, those who would destroy love and the light of your soul. I tell you, you will have much more to learn then, and at the end of the Age, those who have not learned love will enter the Long Sleep, while those who have learned love, will inherit the New Earth which the Father prepares for them."

"In each life, you are affected by what happened in other lives, but you in turn can affect those lives. The Father has not put you in a prison, that you can change nothing. Rather, you can do anything when your inner eyes are opened and you see the Kingdom within."

"Now, even you who follow me see dimly as through a fog. So do not, in that condition, set up laws for others to follow. Rather, teach others to grow in spirit so that their eyes may be opened to the peace and love of the Father."

The Father wishes good for you, not evil. If then, you bring your fears and errors before the Father in meditation, He will help you to understand and be free. The Father does not condemn: you condemn yourself."

"If you judge, you will be judged. If you condemn, you are already condemned. If you do not love, how will you know love? If you are cruel, cruelty will come to you. What you are within yourself ----- that you will draw to yourself." (Bruce F. MacDonald Ph. D., The Thomas Book, Near Death, A Quest and a New Gospel by the Twin Brother of Jesus.
page 117,118 )

The Thomas Book Near Death, a Quest and a New Gospel by the Twin Brother of Jesus: MacDonald PH D, Bruce Fraser: 9781608608195: Books - Amazon.ca

The Thomas Book Near Death, a Quest and a New Gospel by the Twin Brother of Jesus: MacDonald PH D, Bruce Fraser: 9781608608195: Books - Amazon.ca

www.amazon.ca

 

[lightspectera]

.
this is an amazing question, one that I have thought about and taken a good amount of time to study., how can we discover or understand or find the answer to this question ?

i believe it would take some deep and honest study and discussion of the New Testament manuscripts .

I do not believe that the Bible is saying that Jesus went to Hell

yes, he is mentioned to have been " in the heart of the earth " while dead - - but is this where " Hell " is located ?


the manuscripts show that the word “ “ ᾅδης - hadēs / “Hades” simply means - THE GRAVE - TOMB - buried in the grave - AS DEAD

however

This Greek word as it is used “ 11 total times “ the Greek manuscripts and “ hadēs “ it is translated as the word “ hell “ 10 total times in the translation

but only one single time this same exact word “ “ ᾅδης - hadēs / “Hades” is translated as the word “ grave “ in - - 1Co 15:55

all of the other 11 times - its translated as hell - one single time the translators alter the word to mean - " the grave - burial "

but to completely understand, let’s start from the beginning and take the entire subject into our understanding



Basically γέεννα - { Yehenna - gheh'-en-nah } is always translated as the word " HELL "

but - was this what Jesus was referring to as the literal valley in Israel where the where the bodies / corpses of evil individuals and criminals were buried or placed ?


{ Yehenna was a literal place, a great valley where dead animals, junk and feces / refuse was thrown into.

The Yehenna Valley was a place of burning sewage, burning flesh, and garbage. Maggots and worms crawled through the waste, and the smoke smelled strong and sickening


Isaiah 30:33 { Yehenna } - was a place, utterly filthy, disgusting, and repulsive to the nose and eyes.


Yehenna is a word for a literal location or place in Israel - Christ used this word 12 total times in the manuscripts when ministering to his Hebrew people, referring one dying and going to the grave and dying in disgrace and shame - as being thrown or cast into the valley called “ Yehenna


Yet - γέεννα - Yehenna is a word that the translations always translate as the word “ hell “ but yet it is a literal name for a physical location and it is a great valley called “ Yehenna “


the literal physical valley called “ γέεννα - Yehenna “ is translated as “ Hell “ in these 12 passages in the translations
Mat 5:22, + 29, Mat 5:30, Mat 10:28, Mat 18:9, Mat 23:15 + 33, Mar 9:43, + 45, Mar 9:47, Luk 12:5, Jas 3:6


To speculate as to why the translations change or remove the original word “ Yehenna “ - " the location of this valley, " changing this word into the word “ HELL , “ is because the translators noticed that Jesus seemed to literally be speaking of place of Yehenna as a literal place where the soul can be literally destroyed.


The translators then always translated the word “ Yehenna “ as - - HELL - always and never translated this word " Yehenna " as the literal valley as the location in Israel called - " Yehenna "



However, in the manuscripts, the Greek the word Jesus used to say as = destroyed, is the word - “ ἀπόλλυμι - apollumi “

- this Greek word often in the manuscripts is also used to denote a state of being “ LOST “ - UN – SAVABLE, discontinued for usage - un savable - - UN – RECOVERABLE- perishable - ruined


Notice please
Mat 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to - ἀπόλλυμι - loose / perish / ruined destroyed ? / lost both soul and body in - γέεννα - Yehenna


This same exact Greek word -- “ ἀπόλλυμι - apollumi “ -- is translated many times, as - lost / loose


Mat 10:6 - ἀπόλλυμι - lost sheep
Mat 15:24 l- ἀπόλλυμι - lost sheep
Mat 18:11 that which was - ἀπόλλυμι - lost lost.
Luk 15:4 if he - ἀπόλλυμι - loose one
Luk 15:6 sheep which was - ἀπόλλυμι - lost
Luk 15:24 my son was - ἀπόλλυμι - lost
Luk 15:32 brother was dead and was - ἀπόλλυμι - lost
Luk 19:10 save that which was - ἀπόλλυμι - lost
Joh 6:12 that nothing be - ἀπόλλυμι - lost
Joh 18:9 I - ἀπόλλυμι - lost none.
2Co 4:3 to them that are - ἀπόλλυμι - lost
Mat 10:39 he that - ἀπόλλυμι - loosest his life
Mat 10:42 in no wise - ἀπόλλυμι - lost his reward.
Mat 16:25 shall - ἀπόλλυμι - lose his life


Mar 2:22 the bottles will be lost - ruined - no longer usable - - ἀπόλλυμι - lost


Mar 8:35 shall - ἀπόλλυμι - lose his life
Mar 8:35 shall - ἀπόλλυμι - lose his life
Mar 9:41 he shall not - ἀπόλλυμι - lose his reward.
Luk 9:24 shall - ἀπόλλυμι - lose his life
Luk 9:25 a man - ἀπόλλυμι - loose himself
Luk 15:4 he lose one of them - that which is lost
Luk 15:8 if she - ἀπόλλυμι - lose one piece
Luk 17:33 shall - ἀπόλλυμι - lose his life
Joh 6:12 that nothing be - ἀπόλλυμι - lost
Joh 12:25 shall - ἀπόλλυμι - lose his life
2Jn 1:8 that we - ἀπόλλυμι - loose not those things


In the manuscripts, the Greek word - “ ἀπόλλυμι - lost “ is very often expressed as explaining a state of being lost, loosing, perishing and the translators also use this same word as how it is expressed in the scriptures as a state of being lost, loosing, and perishing ruination - of the soul


Could it be that Jesus was truly intending to use literal location of the Valley called - γέεννα / Yehenna,, - which is a literal place in Israel, as a literal example to describe to the Hebrew people - as being lost, - loosing, and perishing ruining - their souls, as receiving a disgraceful, shameful, horrible and dishonorable burial -

intended - as a comparison of the way the soul will disgracefully, shamefully, horribly be lost and perished and ruined in death also ?

and - we have

Mat 10:28
και And - μη not - φοβηθητε be afraid - απο of - των them - αποκτεινοντων of whom kill - το the - σωμα body - την that - δε also - ψυχην the soul - μη not - δυναμενων are able to - αποκτειναι to kill - φοβηθητε be afraid - δε also - μαλλον rather - τον that - δυναμενον are able - και also - ψυχην the soul - και and - σωμα body - απολεσαι loose / perish - εν in - γεεννη Yeenna


meaning

And not be afraid of them of whom kill the body that also the soul not are able to kill

be afraid also rather that are able to also the soul and body loose / perish in - Yeenna / - - translated as hell
and

the manuscripts show that the word “ “ ᾅδης - hadēs / “Hades” simply means - THE GRAVE - burial and 11 total times the Greek word “ hadēs “ is translated as the word “ hell “

only once is it translated as the grave out of the 12 total times
ok

But the other additional 12 times again we see the word hell - that literally, Jesus was using the Valley of Yehenna which is a literal place in Israel , using this word 12 total times in the manuscripts as a parable or symbolic meaning - referring to one dying and going the Valley of Yehenna and dying in disgrace and shame - as if they are being thrown or cast into the valley called “ Yehenna “


explaining to a Hebrew audience that their very soul and spirit will also be lost in disgrace and shame and perish and be ruined for eternity and that Yehenna and Hades being the words always translated as hell

could it be ?

Hades - was rather always, originally intended in the manuscripts to be translated as simply ----- the grave ?

and

Yehenna - was rather always, originally intended in the manuscripts to be translated as ----- the Valley of Yehenna - as the literal location and physical place that exists ?

basically the translators simply chose to use both the Grave and the Valley of Yehenna - as the word hell to remove any association with the symbolism and metaphoric ways that Jesus and the Scriptures used them and by translating both words into simply hell the translators wanted to solidify the concept of a teaching of a literal hell in the afterlife - instead of letting the symbolism and metaphoric ways that Jesus did this speak for themselves.

perhaps Jesus did this because he did not understand completely or realize or know the punishment for evil as a literal lake of fire with punishment for evil, as perhaps God had revealed this to him completely - perhaps later in scriptures the Apostles and writers would receive this revelation from the Spirit.

Jesus did not know the answer to every question
he received, information gradually in stages and was limited on all details and knowledge - but he spoke the message and words that the spirit commanded him to speak at the moment ....

we also notice the following passages

Mat 5:22 ............ in danger of hell fire.
Mat 18:9 .............to be cast into hell fire.
Mrk 9:47 .............. to be cast into hell fire:


here, three times Jesus is using the literal place called the Valley of Yehenna and expressing it to be as a place of burning fire as well -

After his death the apostles and writers of the New Testament begin to explain the punishment of a literal place of burning fire in the afterlife in a way this had never been solidified in the Old Testament.

do you feel it is good to change and alter the word of God to help Jesus explain to the future reader - or is it best to leave the manuscript message exactly as Jesus spoke in its originality ?

 

[DennisPTate]

.
this is an amazing question, one that I have thought about and taken a good amount of time to study., how can we discover or understand or find the answer to this question ?

i believe it would take some deep and honest study and discussion of the New Testament manuscripts .

I do not believe that the Bible is saying that Jesus went to Hell

yes, he is mentioned to have been " in the heart of the earth " while dead - - but is this where " Hell " is located ?


the manuscripts show that the word “ “ ᾅδης - hadēs / “Hades” simply means - THE GRAVE - TOMB - buried in the grave - AS DEAD

however

This Greek word as it is used “ 11 total times “ the Greek manuscripts and “ hadēs “ it is translated as the word “ hell “ 10 total times in the translation

but only one single time this same exact word “ “ ᾅδης - hadēs / “Hades” is translated as the word “ grave “ in - - 1Co 15:55

all of the other 11 times - its translated as hell - one single time the translators alter the word to mean - " the grave - burial "

but to completely understand, let’s start from the beginning and take the entire subject into our understanding



Basically γέεννα - { Yehenna - gheh'-en-nah } is always translated as the word " HELL "

but - was this what Jesus was referring to as the literal valley in Israel where the where the bodies / corpses of evil individuals and criminals were buried or placed ?


{ Yehenna was a literal place, a great valley where dead animals, junk and feces / refuse was thrown into.

The Yehenna Valley was a place of burning sewage, burning flesh, and garbage. Maggots and worms crawled through the waste, and the smoke smelled strong and sickening


Isaiah 30:33 { Yehenna } - was a place, utterly filthy, disgusting, and repulsive to the nose and eyes.


Yehenna is a word for a literal location or place in Israel - Christ used this word 12 total times in the manuscripts when ministering to his Hebrew people, referring one dying and going to the grave and dying in disgrace and shame - as being thrown or cast into the valley called “ Yehenna


Yet - γέεννα - Yehenna is a word that the translations always translate as the word “ hell “ but yet it is a literal name for a physical location and it is a great valley called “ Yehenna “


the literal physical valley called “ γέεννα - Yehenna “ is translated as “ Hell “ in these 12 passages in the translations
Mat 5:22, + 29, Mat 5:30, Mat 10:28, Mat 18:9, Mat 23:15 + 33, Mar 9:43, + 45, Mar 9:47, Luk 12:5, Jas 3:6


To speculate as to why the translations change or remove the original word “ Yehenna “ - " the location of this valley, " changing this word into the word “ HELL , “ is because the translators noticed that Jesus seemed to literally be speaking of place of Yehenna as a literal place where the soul can be literally destroyed.


The translators then always translated the word “ Yehenna “ as - - HELL - always and never translated this word " Yehenna " as the literal valley as the location in Israel called - " Yehenna "



However, in the manuscripts, the Greek the word Jesus used to say as = destroyed, is the word - “ ἀπόλλυμι - apollumi “

- this Greek word often in the manuscripts is also used to denote a state of being “ LOST “ - UN – SAVABLE, discontinued for usage - un savable - - UN – RECOVERABLE- perishable - ruined


Notice please
Mat 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to - ἀπόλλυμι - loose / perish / ruined destroyed ? / lost both soul and body in - γέεννα - Yehenna


This same exact Greek word -- “ ἀπόλλυμι - apollumi “ -- is translated many times, as - lost / loose


Mat 10:6 - ἀπόλλυμι - lost sheep
Mat 15:24 l- ἀπόλλυμι - lost sheep
Mat 18:11 that which was - ἀπόλλυμι - lost lost.
Luk 15:4 if he - ἀπόλλυμι - loose one
Luk 15:6 sheep which was - ἀπόλλυμι - lost
Luk 15:24 my son was - ἀπόλλυμι - lost
Luk 15:32 brother was dead and was - ἀπόλλυμι - lost
Luk 19:10 save that which was - ἀπόλλυμι - lost
Joh 6:12 that nothing be - ἀπόλλυμι - lost
Joh 18:9 I - ἀπόλλυμι - lost none.
2Co 4:3 to them that are - ἀπόλλυμι - lost
Mat 10:39 he that - ἀπόλλυμι - loosest his life
Mat 10:42 in no wise - ἀπόλλυμι - lost his reward.
Mat 16:25 shall - ἀπόλλυμι - lose his life


Mar 2:22 the bottles will be lost - ruined - no longer usable - - ἀπόλλυμι - lost


Mar 8:35 shall - ἀπόλλυμι - lose his life
Mar 8:35 shall - ἀπόλλυμι - lose his life
Mar 9:41 he shall not - ἀπόλλυμι - lose his reward.
Luk 9:24 shall - ἀπόλλυμι - lose his life
Luk 9:25 a man - ἀπόλλυμι - loose himself
Luk 15:4 he lose one of them - that which is lost
Luk 15:8 if she - ἀπόλλυμι - lose one piece
Luk 17:33 shall - ἀπόλλυμι - lose his life
Joh 6:12 that nothing be - ἀπόλλυμι - lost
Joh 12:25 shall - ἀπόλλυμι - lose his life
2Jn 1:8 that we - ἀπόλλυμι - loose not those things


In the manuscripts, the Greek word - “ ἀπόλλυμι - lost “ is very often expressed as explaining a state of being lost, loosing, perishing and the translators also use this same word as how it is expressed in the scriptures as a state of being lost, loosing, and perishing ruination - of the soul


Could it be that Jesus was truly intending to use literal location of the Valley called - γέεννα / Yehenna,, - which is a literal place in Israel, as a literal example to describe to the Hebrew people - as being lost, - loosing, and perishing ruining - their souls, as receiving a disgraceful, shameful, horrible and dishonorable burial -

intended - as a comparison of the way the soul will disgracefully, shamefully, horribly be lost and perished and ruined in death also ?

and - we have

Mat 10:28
και And - μη not - φοβηθητε be afraid - απο of - των them - αποκτεινοντων of whom kill - το the - σωμα body - την that - δε also - ψυχην the soul - μη not - δυναμενων are able to - αποκτειναι to kill - φοβηθητε be afraid - δε also - μαλλον rather - τον that - δυναμενον are able - και also - ψυχην the soul - και and - σωμα body - απολεσαι loose / perish - εν in - γεεννη Yeenna


meaning

And not be afraid of them of whom kill the body that also the soul not are able to kill

be afraid also rather that are able to also the soul and body loose / perish in - Yeenna / - - translated as hell
and

the manuscripts show that the word “ “ ᾅδης - hadēs / “Hades” simply means - THE GRAVE - burial and 11 total times the Greek word “ hadēs “ is translated as the word “ hell “

only once is it translated as the grave out of the 12 total times
ok

But the other additional 12 times again we see the word hell - that literally, Jesus was using the Valley of Yehenna which is a literal place in Israel , using this word 12 total times in the manuscripts as a parable or symbolic meaning - referring to one dying and going the Valley of Yehenna and dying in disgrace and shame - as if they are being thrown or cast into the valley called “ Yehenna “


explaining to a Hebrew audience that their very soul and spirit will also be lost in disgrace and shame and perish and be ruined for eternity and that Yehenna and Hades being the words always translated as hell

could it be ?

Hades - was rather always, originally intended in the manuscripts to be translated as simply ----- the grave ?

and

Yehenna - was rather always, originally intended in the manuscripts to be translated as ----- the Valley of Yehenna - as the literal location and physical place that exists ?

basically the translators simply chose to use both the Grave and the Valley of Yehenna - as the word hell to remove any association with the symbolism and metaphoric ways that Jesus and the Scriptures used them and by translating both words into simply hell the translators wanted to solidify the concept of a teaching of a literal hell in the afterlife - instead of letting the symbolism and metaphoric ways that Jesus did this speak for themselves.

perhaps Jesus did this because he did not understand completely or realize or know the punishment for evil as a literal lake of fire with punishment for evil, as perhaps God had revealed this to him completely - perhaps later in scriptures the Apostles and writers would receive this revelation from the Spirit.

Jesus did not know the answer to every question
he received, information gradually in stages and was limited on all details and knowledge - but he spoke the message and words that the spirit commanded him to speak at the moment ....

we also notice the following passages

Mat 5:22 ............ in danger of hell fire.
Mat 18:9 .............to be cast into hell fire.
Mrk 9:47 .............. to be cast into hell fire:


here, three times Jesus is using the literal place called the Valley of Yehenna and expressing it to be as a place of burning fire as well -

After his death the apostles and writers of the New Testament begin to explain the punishment of a literal place of burning fire in the afterlife in a way this had never been solidified in the Old Testament.

do you feel it is good to change and alter the word of God to help Jesus explain to the future reader - or is it best to leave the manuscript message exactly as Jesus spoke in its originality ?

Thank you for this excellent and comprehensive write up on this topic.

On one level I am of the belief that it would be extremely dangerous for near death experiencer Kevin L. Zadai Th. D. to say that during a near death expereince Jesus told him certain things....... unless this had actually happened.

Chapter six in his first book goes into great detail on what Jesus told Kevin L. Zadai.
This online course is free of charge if we will merely give an e-mail and sign up to be a student. I do highly recommend this book.

"Kevin Zadai, ThD, is dedicated to training Christians to live and operate in two realms at once—the supernatural and the natural. Called to ministry at age 10, he attended Central Bible College in Springfield, Missouri where he received a bachelor degree in theology. Later, Kevin received training in Missions at Rhema Bible College. At age 31, during a routine surgery, he found himself on the “other side of the veil” with Jesus, in a heavenly visitation that forever marked his life. For forty-five minutes, the Master revealed spiritual truths before returning him to his body and assigning him to a supernatural ministry. This encounter ushered his ministry into new dimensions of power, activation, and impartation. Kevin is retired after being employed by Southwest Airlines for 29 years. He and his wife, Kathi, reside in New Orleans, Louisiana and are ordained by Dr. Jesse and Dr. Cathy Duplantis. "
Heavenly Visitation: 100

 

[Cougarbear]

.
this is an amazing question, one that I have thought about and taken a good amount of time to study., how can we discover or understand or find the answer to this question ?

i believe it would take some deep and honest study and discussion of the New Testament manuscripts .

I do not believe that the Bible is saying that Jesus went to Hell

yes, he is mentioned to have been " in the heart of the earth " while dead - - but is this where " Hell " is located ?


the manuscripts show that the word “ “ ᾅδης - hadēs / “Hades” simply means - THE GRAVE - TOMB - buried in the grave - AS DEAD

however

This Greek word as it is used “ 11 total times “ the Greek manuscripts and “ hadēs “ it is translated as the word “ hell “ 10 total times in the translation

but only one single time this same exact word “ “ ᾅδης - hadēs / “Hades” is translated as the word “ grave “ in - - 1Co 15:55

all of the other 11 times - its translated as hell - one single time the translators alter the word to mean - " the grave - burial "

but to completely understand, let’s start from the beginning and take the entire subject into our understanding



Basically γέεννα - { Yehenna - gheh'-en-nah } is always translated as the word " HELL "

but - was this what Jesus was referring to as the literal valley in Israel where the where the bodies / corpses of evil individuals and criminals were buried or placed ?


{ Yehenna was a literal place, a great valley where dead animals, junk and feces / refuse was thrown into.

The Yehenna Valley was a place of burning sewage, burning flesh, and garbage. Maggots and worms crawled through the waste, and the smoke smelled strong and sickening


Isaiah 30:33 { Yehenna } - was a place, utterly filthy, disgusting, and repulsive to the nose and eyes.


Yehenna is a word for a literal location or place in Israel - Christ used this word 12 total times in the manuscripts when ministering to his Hebrew people, referring one dying and going to the grave and dying in disgrace and shame - as being thrown or cast into the valley called “ Yehenna


Yet - γέεννα - Yehenna is a word that the translations always translate as the word “ hell “ but yet it is a literal name for a physical location and it is a great valley called “ Yehenna “


the literal physical valley called “ γέεννα - Yehenna “ is translated as “ Hell “ in these 12 passages in the translations
Mat 5:22, + 29, Mat 5:30, Mat 10:28, Mat 18:9, Mat 23:15 + 33, Mar 9:43, + 45, Mar 9:47, Luk 12:5, Jas 3:6


To speculate as to why the translations change or remove the original word “ Yehenna “ - " the location of this valley, " changing this word into the word “ HELL , “ is because the translators noticed that Jesus seemed to literally be speaking of place of Yehenna as a literal place where the soul can be literally destroyed.


The translators then always translated the word “ Yehenna “ as - - HELL - always and never translated this word " Yehenna " as the literal valley as the location in Israel called - " Yehenna "



However, in the manuscripts, the Greek the word Jesus used to say as = destroyed, is the word - “ ἀπόλλυμι - apollumi “

- this Greek word often in the manuscripts is also used to denote a state of being “ LOST “ - UN – SAVABLE, discontinued for usage - un savable - - UN – RECOVERABLE- perishable - ruined


Notice please
Mat 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to - ἀπόλλυμι - loose / perish / ruined destroyed ? / lost both soul and body in - γέεννα - Yehenna


This same exact Greek word -- “ ἀπόλλυμι - apollumi “ -- is translated many times, as - lost / loose


Mat 10:6 - ἀπόλλυμι - lost sheep
Mat 15:24 l- ἀπόλλυμι - lost sheep
Mat 18:11 that which was - ἀπόλλυμι - lost lost.
Luk 15:4 if he - ἀπόλλυμι - loose one
Luk 15:6 sheep which was - ἀπόλλυμι - lost
Luk 15:24 my son was - ἀπόλλυμι - lost
Luk 15:32 brother was dead and was - ἀπόλλυμι - lost
Luk 19:10 save that which was - ἀπόλλυμι - lost
Joh 6:12 that nothing be - ἀπόλλυμι - lost
Joh 18:9 I - ἀπόλλυμι - lost none.
2Co 4:3 to them that are - ἀπόλλυμι - lost
Mat 10:39 he that - ἀπόλλυμι - loosest his life
Mat 10:42 in no wise - ἀπόλλυμι - lost his reward.
Mat 16:25 shall - ἀπόλλυμι - lose his life


Mar 2:22 the bottles will be lost - ruined - no longer usable - - ἀπόλλυμι - lost


Mar 8:35 shall - ἀπόλλυμι - lose his life
Mar 8:35 shall - ἀπόλλυμι - lose his life
Mar 9:41 he shall not - ἀπόλλυμι - lose his reward.
Luk 9:24 shall - ἀπόλλυμι - lose his life
Luk 9:25 a man - ἀπόλλυμι - loose himself
Luk 15:4 he lose one of them - that which is lost
Luk 15:8 if she - ἀπόλλυμι - lose one piece
Luk 17:33 shall - ἀπόλλυμι - lose his life
Joh 6:12 that nothing be - ἀπόλλυμι - lost
Joh 12:25 shall - ἀπόλλυμι - lose his life
2Jn 1:8 that we - ἀπόλλυμι - loose not those things


In the manuscripts, the Greek word - “ ἀπόλλυμι - lost “ is very often expressed as explaining a state of being lost, loosing, perishing and the translators also use this same word as how it is expressed in the scriptures as a state of being lost, loosing, and perishing ruination - of the soul


Could it be that Jesus was truly intending to use literal location of the Valley called - γέεννα / Yehenna,, - which is a literal place in Israel, as a literal example to describe to the Hebrew people - as being lost, - loosing, and perishing ruining - their souls, as receiving a disgraceful, shameful, horrible and dishonorable burial -

intended - as a comparison of the way the soul will disgracefully, shamefully, horribly be lost and perished and ruined in death also ?

and - we have

Mat 10:28
και And - μη not - φοβηθητε be afraid - απο of - των them - αποκτεινοντων of whom kill - το the - σωμα body - την that - δε also - ψυχην the soul - μη not - δυναμενων are able to - αποκτειναι to kill - φοβηθητε be afraid - δε also - μαλλον rather - τον that - δυναμενον are able - και also - ψυχην the soul - και and - σωμα body - απολεσαι loose / perish - εν in - γεεννη Yeenna


meaning

And not be afraid of them of whom kill the body that also the soul not are able to kill

be afraid also rather that are able to also the soul and body loose / perish in - Yeenna / - - translated as hell
and

the manuscripts show that the word “ “ ᾅδης - hadēs / “Hades” simply means - THE GRAVE - burial and 11 total times the Greek word “ hadēs “ is translated as the word “ hell “

only once is it translated as the grave out of the 12 total times
ok

But the other additional 12 times again we see the word hell - that literally, Jesus was using the Valley of Yehenna which is a literal place in Israel , using this word 12 total times in the manuscripts as a parable or symbolic meaning - referring to one dying and going the Valley of Yehenna and dying in disgrace and shame - as if they are being thrown or cast into the valley called “ Yehenna “


explaining to a Hebrew audience that their very soul and spirit will also be lost in disgrace and shame and perish and be ruined for eternity and that Yehenna and Hades being the words always translated as hell

could it be ?

Hades - was rather always, originally intended in the manuscripts to be translated as simply ----- the grave ?

and

Yehenna - was rather always, originally intended in the manuscripts to be translated as ----- the Valley of Yehenna - as the literal location and physical place that exists ?

basically the translators simply chose to use both the Grave and the Valley of Yehenna - as the word hell to remove any association with the symbolism and metaphoric ways that Jesus and the Scriptures used them and by translating both words into simply hell the translators wanted to solidify the concept of a teaching of a literal hell in the afterlife - instead of letting the symbolism and metaphoric ways that Jesus did this speak for themselves.

perhaps Jesus did this because he did not understand completely or realize or know the punishment for evil as a literal lake of fire with punishment for evil, as perhaps God had revealed this to him completely - perhaps later in scriptures the Apostles and writers would receive this revelation from the Spirit.

Jesus did not know the answer to every question
he received, information gradually in stages and was limited on all details and knowledge - but he spoke the message and words that the spirit commanded him to speak at the moment ....

we also notice the following passages

Mat 5:22 ............ in danger of hell fire.
Mat 18:9 .............to be cast into hell fire.
Mrk 9:47 .............. to be cast into hell fire:


here, three times Jesus is using the literal place called the Valley of Yehenna and expressing it to be as a place of burning fire as well -

After his death the apostles and writers of the New Testament begin to explain the punishment of a literal place of burning fire in the afterlife in a way this had never been solidified in the Old Testament.

do you feel it is good to change and alter the word of God to help Jesus explain to the future reader - or is it best to leave the manuscript message exactly as Jesus spoke in its originality ?

You have a lot of time on your hand.....Anyways, read 1st Peter chapters 3 and 4 and that will simplify some things. Jesus went to a place called Spirit Prison. I don't see anything in any testament that explains what this place is and its make up. In my opinion, it is called a "Prison" because it cannot grow into what is promised. And, that is to be exalted too and a joint heir in the kingdom of our Father in Heaven. That takes the body and spirit joined together in the resurrection specifically the Celestial Glory personage. You will find that in 1st Corinthians late into chapter 15.

Now, would the Godhead be a just God if the good and evil were thrown into spirit prison together? I think not. Some suggest that the good go to paradise while the evil go to hell and await their judgment and resurrection. Did Jesus go to both? Maybe. Unknown. Don't believe the so-called near death crowd. They preach a different gospel. They didn't see a light like Paul did. What I believe happened is Jesus went and preached to those in paradise, mostly those who were properly baptized with the correct authority were organized into missionary cores to go and preach to those in paradise and hell who did not receive the correct ordinance work and correct Gospel teachings. Missionaries will be knocking at your door in spirit prison. Might as well let them in now and get it over with.

 

[lightspectera]

Jesus went to a place called Spirit Prison. I don't see anything in any testament that explains what this place is and its make up. In my opinion, it is called a "Prison" because it cannot grow into what is promised.

thank you dearest " Cougarbear " for taking the time to reply, i really appreciate the opportunity to learn about your opinion and what you think and believe about the Bible..... and thanks so much to the other individual who also replied with information on the great book by Kevin L. Zadai.

​

i really do disagree with the notion that 1Pe 3:19 has anything to do with Jesus going to hell or even a spirit prison and preaching to lost souls ... please allow me opportunity to explain why ...

I don't want to hurtful or harsh but please put aside personal feelings and pre- conceived notion for just a moment and think this through with me.........

let's look at this closer .................. and notice the idea of God being longsuffering - patient

please let us go through and read the Greek manuscripts and see what they say, and keep in mind the message is saying that God is " longsuffering - patient "


1Pe 3:19
εν In - ω whom και also - τοις those - εν in - φυλακη prison - πνευμασιν the spirit - πορευθεις has went - εκηρυξεν preaching

:19
IN WHOM ALSO THOSE IN PRISON THE SPIRIT HAS WENT PREACHING

i do not believe that Jesus went to preach to the dead spirits when he died but simply the passage is simply saying that the Spirit of Jesus has gone preaching to our spirits which are in prison and bound by sin

THE PASSAGE THEN GOES ON TO EXPLAIN

:20
απειθησασιν They that believed not - ποτε how long - οτε then - απαξ were once - εξεδεχετο expecting - η that - του the - θεου God - μακροθυμια was longsuffering - εν in - ημεραις of the days - νωε Noah - κατασκευαζομενης was preparing - κιβωτου the ark - εις into - ην which - ολιγαι as few as - τουτεστιν that were - οκτω eight - ψυχαι souls - διεσωθησαν were saved - δι by - υδατος water

:20
THEY THAT BELIEVED NOT,, HOW LONG THEN, WERE ONCE EXPECTING THAT THE GOD WAS LONGSUFFERING IN OF THE DAYS NOAH WAS PREPARING THE ARK

INTO WHICH AS FEW AS THAT WERE EIGHT SOULS WERE SAVED BY WATER


MEANING - topic - context, - saying

:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust,
:19 In whom also those in prison the spirit has went preaching.
" those in prison the spirit has went preaching " by Christ who also has also suffered

also


:20 They that believed not,, how long then, were once expecting that the God was longsuffering in of the days Noah was preparing the ark into which as few as that were eight souls were saved by water.


is the passage is simply saying ?

that in the days of the flood the unbelievers continued on in sin while they expected or considered and assumed that God was longsuffering and patient and they went onward into their destruction - expecting for so long that God would be merciful and patient.

to view this as somehow Jesus went to the billions of people who lived in the pre - flood time and preached to these people - i do not see how this is what the simple manuscripts are saying
the manuscripts simply say - :19 .. In whom also those in prison the spirit has went preaching.

"" those in prison the spirit has went preaching - "" this is the exact Greek - word for word exactly,


the KJV translation says - = 1Pe 3:19 = By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison

i believe that the passage is mentioning the Pre - Flood people because it is giving a very, very strong defense and explanation and defending, justifying Gods decision to destroy the Pre Flood world

comparing Gods patience and longsuffering and willingness to let sin continue for a duration of time to mans very own patience and willingness to suffer and for good and righteousness sake .

I don't believe these are people who were being detained and held in a Catholic " purgatory - like " prison, but rather the passage is simply making a simple and plain statement, saying that God was longsuffering and patient and it is justifying his actions to condemn all man in the Pre - Flood
Peter is comparing Gods very own patience and suffering and God's grief and pain
Gen 6:6 And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.

that's it - the passage is simply saying that God was patient and longsuffering in the says of Noah. God was suffering himself, grieved and hurting in the way that God hurts as a spirit.,


watch what the Roman Catholic Douay Rheims and the King James Translation translations do with verse :20
concerning Pre - Flood people who were destroyed,

Catholic DRB - :20 Which had been some time incredulous, when they waited for the patience of God

Protestant KJV - :20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited

this don't even make sense

but notice - manuscripts of Greek
:20 THEY THAT BELIEVED NOT,, HOW LONG THEN, WERE ONCE EXPECTING THAT THE GOD WAS LONGSUFFERING IN OF THE DAYS NOAH WAS PREPARING THE ARK

both translation are altering and changing the wording slightly, attempting in different methods to identify and associate the spirit preaching to Pre- Flood spirits


but please notice that the previous passages are making reference directly about the suffering of the believers, the simple context is saying exactly - - that Christians are being harmed, falsely accused - treated as criminals, treated as evil doers

:13 who .....will harm you
:16 speak evil of you, as evildoers - falsely accuse you
:17 ....... ye suffer for well doing
and
:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins................................., that he might bring us to God
and
:19 those in prison the spirit has went preaching - ""
​

1Pe 4:1 Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh,

i believe that the context in the passage is that Christ also has suffered and also his spirit has went preaching to those in prison and suffering also, - he is heralded, - preached, - proclaim and published to those who are now in prison whom are now bound in sufferings

the passage simply goes on to verse :20 " to compare the suffering and pain and sorrow and great grief that God felt toward the Pre - Flood earth, compared to the suffering of Christ who also suffered that he may deliver

:19
IN WHOM ALSO THOSE IN PRISON THE SPIRIT HAS WENT PREACHING

 

[lightspectera]

.
if there was a " pre - flood " Catholic purgatory prison and then another " post - flood " Catholic purgatory prison - then what is the purpose of Gods GREAT DAY OF JUDGMENT, where every man will give an account for his deeds and a judgment will be made.

Catholic purgatory prison = redeems and brings salvation and sends to heaven humans based on how much suffering and pain and torment they can handle and heap upon themselves after they die.

Catholic purgatory prison = redeems and brings salvation and sends to heaven humans based on how much money their friends and family can pay the Church. - bypassing the Judgment day,

Catholic saints become completely free to skip judgment day

Catholic purgatory prison = says that Jesus has to go back in time to the past and preach to a world that completely God failed to provide a means of salvation - and God failed to show mankind in the past the truth of how to live holy lives and be good people and show love and God completely failed to set forth his laws to show the way and killed man without mercy.

what about the Godly Old Testament prophets and Biblical Characters of the Old Testament such as Abraham, Sarah, Isaac, Jacob and the Godly Kings and men and women after the flood.

were these " post - flood " prophets and Godly people also sent to an entirely different 3rd Catholic purgatory prison where they must pay for their sins in some other currency other than money and pain and torment ?

what one liner or partial phrase or power word can be pulled out of context to allow them to bypass the GREAT DAY OF JUDGMENT, and become a Catholic saint and sent automatically to heaven with enough Catholic currency in both pain and gold. ?

 

[Cougarbear]

thank you dearest " Cougarbear " for taking the time to reply, i really appreciate the opportunity to learn about your opinion and what you think and believe about the Bible..... and thanks so much to the other individual who also replied with information on the great book by Kevin L. Zadai.

​

i really do disagree with the notion that 1Pe 3:19 has anything to do with Jesus going to hell or even a spirit prison and preaching to lost souls ... please allow me opportunity to explain why ...

I don't want to hurtful or harsh but please put aside personal feelings and pre- conceived notion for just a moment and think this through with me.........

let's look at this closer .................. and notice the idea of God being longsuffering - patient

please let us go through and read the Greek manuscripts and see what they say, and keep in mind the message is saying that God is " longsuffering - patient "


1Pe 3:19
εν In - ω whom και also - τοις those - εν in - φυλακη prison - πνευμασιν the spirit - πορευθεις has went - εκηρυξεν preaching

:19
IN WHOM ALSO THOSE IN PRISON THE SPIRIT HAS WENT PREACHING

i do not believe that Jesus went to preach to the dead spirits when he died but simply the passage is simply saying that the Spirit of Jesus has gone preaching to our spirits which are in prison and bound by sin

THE PASSAGE THEN GOES ON TO EXPLAIN

:20
απειθησασιν They that believed not - ποτε how long - οτε then - απαξ were once - εξεδεχετο expecting - η that - του the - θεου God - μακροθυμια was longsuffering - εν in - ημεραις of the days - νωε Noah - κατασκευαζομενης was preparing - κιβωτου the ark - εις into - ην which - ολιγαι as few as - τουτεστιν that were - οκτω eight - ψυχαι souls - διεσωθησαν were saved - δι by - υδατος water

:20
THEY THAT BELIEVED NOT,, HOW LONG THEN, WERE ONCE EXPECTING THAT THE GOD WAS LONGSUFFERING IN OF THE DAYS NOAH WAS PREPARING THE ARK

INTO WHICH AS FEW AS THAT WERE EIGHT SOULS WERE SAVED BY WATER


MEANING - topic - context, - saying

:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust,
:19 In whom also those in prison the spirit has went preaching.
" those in prison the spirit has went preaching " by Christ who also has also suffered

also


:20 They that believed not,, how long then, were once expecting that the God was longsuffering in of the days Noah was preparing the ark into which as few as that were eight souls were saved by water.


is the passage is simply saying ?

that in the days of the flood the unbelievers continued on in sin while they expected or considered and assumed that God was longsuffering and patient and they went onward into their destruction - expecting for so long that God would be merciful and patient.

to view this as somehow Jesus went to the billions of people who lived in the pre - flood time and preached to these people - i do not see how this is what the simple manuscripts are saying
the manuscripts simply say - :19 .. In whom also those in prison the spirit has went preaching.

"" those in prison the spirit has went preaching - "" this is the exact Greek - word for word exactly,


the KJV translation says - = 1Pe 3:19 = By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison

i believe that the passage is mentioning the Pre - Flood people because it is giving a very, very strong defense and explanation and defending, justifying Gods decision to destroy the Pre Flood world

comparing Gods patience and longsuffering and willingness to let sin continue for a duration of time to mans very own patience and willingness to suffer and for good and righteousness sake .

I don't believe these are people who were being detained and held in a Catholic " purgatory - like " prison, but rather the passage is simply making a simple and plain statement, saying that God was longsuffering and patient and it is justifying his actions to condemn all man in the Pre - Flood
Peter is comparing Gods very own patience and suffering and God's grief and pain
Gen 6:6 And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.

that's it - the passage is simply saying that God was patient and longsuffering in the says of Noah. God was suffering himself, grieved and hurting in the way that God hurts as a spirit.,


watch what the Roman Catholic Douay Rheims and the King James Translation translations do with verse :20
concerning Pre - Flood people who were destroyed,

Catholic DRB - :20 Which had been some time incredulous, when they waited for the patience of God

Protestant KJV - :20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited

this don't even make sense

but notice - manuscripts of Greek
:20 THEY THAT BELIEVED NOT,, HOW LONG THEN, WERE ONCE EXPECTING THAT THE GOD WAS LONGSUFFERING IN OF THE DAYS NOAH WAS PREPARING THE ARK

both translation are altering and changing the wording slightly, attempting in different methods to identify and associate the spirit preaching to Pre- Flood spirits


but please notice that the previous passages are making reference directly about the suffering of the believers, the simple context is saying exactly - - that Christians are being harmed, falsely accused - treated as criminals, treated as evil doers

:13 who .....will harm you
:16 speak evil of you, as evildoers - falsely accuse you
:17 ....... ye suffer for well doing
and
:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins................................., that he might bring us to God
and
:19 those in prison the spirit has went preaching - ""
​

1Pe 4:1 Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh,

i believe that the context in the passage is that Christ also has suffered and also his spirit has went preaching to those in prison and suffering also, - he is heralded, - preached, - proclaim and published to those who are now in prison whom are now bound in sufferings

the passage simply goes on to verse :20 " to compare the suffering and pain and sorrow and great grief that God felt toward the Pre - Flood earth, compared to the suffering of Christ who also suffered that he may deliver

:19
IN WHOM ALSO THOSE IN PRISON THE SPIRIT HAS WENT PREACHING

I appreciate your response and continued wording that continued to say that his is your opinion and interpretation. You mentioned 1Peter4:1 but didn't mention verse 6. Now, I went to the internet for the Greek and the interpretation. It seems that the difference is even the definition of some words like "preached." The AI (from traditional protestant teaching obviously) states this is a past tense, something in the past. I would argue that this is a complete fabrication of the word. Peter was writing well after the 3 days of Atonement and either from a vision or from the teachings of Jesus directly after his resurrection and before his final ascension. So, what was being stated was an event that Jesus preached at. This is present tense during the past event as it is being explained to Peter. Jesus was preaching to the dead spirits.

Also, those that accepted the Gospel didn't need to be preached at again. But, those in the days of Noah (From Adam to Jesus) that never had any opportunity to hear or know the Gospel of Jesus Christ shouldn't be damned for being born at the wrong time. That would be an unjust God doing that. What about the billions that never knew the true Gospel throughout all of time? Are they damned forever? Else why baptized for the dead if the dead never rise and are resurrected?

See, what you and AI are doing are taking these verses completely out of context of the rest of the NT and OT for that matter. Here is what is presented from the Greek.

1 Peter 4:6 in Greek (Koine) reads: εἰς τοῦτο γὰρ καὶ νεκροῖς εὐηγγελίσθη, ἵνα κριθῶσι μὲν κατὰ ἀνθρώπους σαρκὶ ζῶσι δὲ κατὰ θεὸν πνεύματι, meaning "For to this end the Gospel was preached even to the dead, so that they might be judged in the flesh as men, but live according to God in the spirit."
Here is a breakdown: "The Dead" (νεκροῖς - nekrois): Refers to believers who accepted the Gospel but died, often facing persecution, linking to the suffering discussed earlier in 1 Peter." Again, I reject that those Jesus clearly went to are believers to preach to them so they can be judged by those living who know and heard the Gospel and had that chance. The people of Noah did not. They were blinded by the evil that caused Jehovah (Jesus) to wash away mankind and start all over with Noah's family.
There is much more but the twisting of words doesn't make sense. Here is chapter 3 verses:
1 Peter 3:19 (19 ἐν ᾧ καὶ τοῖς ἐν φυλακῇ πνεύμασιν...)

• ἐν ᾧ (en hō): in which (referring to the spirit)
• πορευθεis ἐκήρυξεν (poreutheis ekēryxen): went and proclaimed
• τοῖς ἐν φυλακῇ πνεύμασιν (tois en phylakē pneumasin): to the spirits in prison

1 Peter 3:20 (20 ἀπειθήσασίν ποτε ὅτε ἀπεξεδέχετο...)

• ἀπειθήσασίν ποτε (apeithēsasin pote): to those who formerly disobeyed
• ὅτε (ホte): when
• ἀπεξεδέχετο ἡ τοῦ θεοῦ μακροθυμία (apexedexeto hē tou theou makrothymia): God's patience waited/endured
• ἐν ἡμέραις Νῶε (en hēmerais Nōe): in the days of Noah
• κατασκευαζομένης κιβωτοῦ (kataskeuazomenēs kibōtou): while the ark was being prepared
• εἰς ἣν ὀλίγοι (eis hēn oligoi): into which few (eight souls)
• διεσώθησαν δι' ὕδατος (diesōthēsan di' hydatos): were saved through water

How you or AI take these words and interpret them so differently is very strange to me. There is no reason to. Take the translation literally. Jesus went and proclaimed (preached) to the spirits in prison (spirit prison) to those formally (in former days) disobeyed (rejected the Gospel in Noah's Days or doctrine) when God's patience waited/endured/long suffering in the days of Noah (meaning long time ago or from Adam to Jesus). See, just take it literally and also chapter 4. Then, go to 1Corinthians 15:29 and connect the theme that there is a reason for baptizing the dead. Remember, also in the NT Jesus directly stated that the only way to ascend to the Kingdom of God is through the ordinance of baptism by water and the Holy Ghost. Those who die without this knowledge or this ordinance are not lost forever. My interpretation gives hope that all 100 billion who have died without baptism by someone with authority to do so can still receive the ordinances of eternal life and exaltation vicariously. Why try to denounce this to those who have lost loved ones without these ordinances and the opportunity to hear the Gospel? Jesus went and preached His Gospel. But, as I have said, through present day prophets and apostles, I know that Jesus did not do this alone. He organized a missionary organization to go and peach to those who have died without knowledge to be judged according to those in the flesh or alive and having the correct Gospel in its fulness.

My understanding and the understanding of millions of Latter-day Saints have hope for people's ancestors that had no opportunity to hear and accept the Gospel of Jesus Christ and the everlasting covenants of the ordinance of exaltation in the Kingdom of God. Binding and sealing families together forever.

 

[lightspectera]

.
hello again - " Cougarbear "


I honestly believe that Jesus made it perfectly clear when he said in Mat 22:32


:32 - I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.


The teachings of Jesus seem to be consistent and reliable with a very dependable clear and concise, exact agreement, throughout the Old and New Testament, to convey and preach or proclaim of this same message which - HAD WENT PREACHED ,

truly proclaiming of this same message which HAD WENT PREACHING

that the Dead have no chance before judgment day to be given any second chances

- does not this completely cancel out the “ GREAT DAY OF JUDGMENT “ rendering Jesus himself as Judge of all man - meaningless and pointless.

Are we to believe that Jesus has went preaching / or - had went preached to the Pre – Flood Spirits in Prison and he went wakes them up from the dead and preaches to them then he puts them back to sleep after they hear and choose to believe or disbelieve ?


I believe the Bible makes it very clear

In the Old Testament the message remains consistent …………………..

Job 14:12 So man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their SLEEP

Why would the Old Testament present a false narrative ?

Dan 12:1 ........at the end of days ……..every one that shall be found written in the book will awake to everlasting life
And many of them that SLEEP in the dust of the earth shall awake....


Ecc 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not anything,

NEITHER HAVE THEY ANY MORE A REWARD; for the memory of them is forgotten......NEITHER HAVE THEY ANY MORE A REWARD

:6 Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion forever in anything that is done under the sun. :

:10 For there is no work, nor device, NOR KNOWLEDGE, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest.


In conclusion

Concerning the difference in the way 1Pe 3:19 is translated

Please consider that the Greek manuscripts as they are laid out make it perfectly clear

Yes, - this is truly a - " past tense event " - I agree with you completely, as the manuscripts make this very clear

there is not any cause to say this is a present or a future event -


THE SPIRIT HAS WENT / GONE PREACHING ... -past tense

THE SPIRIT HAS WENT PREACHED ... - past tense


it would greatly help me if you could explain why it is that you feel that
" AI programs " or artificial intelligence would want to trick you by using the word -

" HAS WENT PREACHING "

i simply was trying to use the word - " HAS WENT or HAS GONE - PREACHING " to make it more understandable

in today’s modern advanced English it makes more sense to me personally to use the word - " preaching " as _ PAST TENSE _

simply due to the way the ancient Greek message explains - " THE SPIRIT HAS WENT PREACHED " -

" HAS GONE / WENT PREACHED - PROCLAIMED "

this event is already ongoing - or it has already happened


I apologize that you felt that an " AI program " or a specific artificial intelligence program that i use is trying to change the message of the Bible

HONESTLY - I do not know anything about " AI programs " i have never, ever even seen one, nor do i ever use any such programs nor intend to ever use one,

much lesss would never use " AI programs " to translate the Bible. - and I tend to purposefully stay completely away from them - and honestly know nothing about them.

i have no education nor experience in any " AI programs "

I just don’t know anything about " AI programs " and have never, ever even used one - ever. not even once

but to provide and lay out an exact word for word translation of the original message - exactly as it is transmitted in the Greek - i never want to add, remove nor modify a single word but represent exactly the original meaning transmits.


The Bible clearly explains that as sinners we are dead

Eph 2:1 …….you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
Eph 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened…..

Col 2:13 you, being dead in your sins … of your flesh, hath he quickened
Rom 6:13 ………yield unto God, as those that are alive from the dead……
Rom 8:10 ……. the body is dead because of sin……..
Rom 7:13 ……..sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me

I just don’t see any idea or notion that Jesus goes to a purgatory where Jesus or anyone goes and tries to preach and save the dead, this is only a pagan Roman / Greek mythology that attempts to use the ancient nature of the Greek Bible language and twist and contort it by taking advantage of the way the ancient language was spoken

Attempting to alter the words to re - create and insert a narrative or message that simply is not explained or written in the original message.

it can be imagined or fantasized or a wishful puzzle can be jumbled together by moving words around, adding and deleting and modifying and changing words and creating run on sentences

but the reason the Pre - Flood is mention next to present day events in the bible is to make a comparison to their similarity in Gods Judgment standards, to take this comparison that is made and try to run sentences together on top of one another - to project and copy current events back into the past is simply not the way the ancient manuscripts are written, nor the way the Bible teaches and explains and proclaims .

the man made theories and teachings have to alter the original text and change the simply message and switch words around to make it say something that simply is not there,

I really enjoy discussing this with you and look forward to a deeper discussion with you. Thank you.

bless you always.

 

[lightspectera]

in all honestly if you look at the original message from the Greek manuscripts as they are written

Jesus was quickened raised to life - by the Spirit

they say - the Spirit has went preached to those in prison'

not Jesus - Jesus is not directly said to have done anything in verse - :19

1Pe 3:19
εν In - ω whom και also - τοις those - εν in - φυλακη prison - πνευμασιν the spirit - πορευθεις has went - εκηρυξεν preached

:19
IN WHOM ALSO THOSE IN PRISON THE SPIRIT HAS WENT PREACHING

the Spirit that gave life to Jesus has gone preached to those in prison

the gospel of the spirit has been preached - not necessary the spirit itself even actively going and literally preaching to anyone -

but the gospel of the Spirit of God has been delivered


the words are shuffled - moved and switched around completely to change the message, there is a completely different message when it is changed to say .....

1Pe 3:19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;

its just taking a sentence and moving, shuffling and switching words around, moving the ending words to the middle and toward the front and taking the middle of the sentence and moving the words forward or backwards to make it say something that seems to fit with the next sentence that is also altered and changed.

just like they are also, when the attempt is made to paint a narrative that the fallen Angels were having intimacy and relations with women, and going after strange flesh . here again this is can be proven to be an alteration and changing of the original message to insert this pre - conceived teaching.

 

[DennisPTate]

in all honestly if you look at the original message from the Greek manuscripts as they are written

Jesus was quickened raised to life - by the Spirit

they say - the Spirit has went preached to those in prison'

not Jesus - Jesus is not directly said to have done anything in verse - :19

1Pe 3:19
εν In - ω whom και also - τοις those - εν in - φυλακη prison - πνευμασιν the spirit - πορευθεις has went - εκηρυξεν preached

:19
IN WHOM ALSO THOSE IN PRISON THE SPIRIT HAS WENT PREACHING

the Spirit that gave life to Jesus has gone preached to those in prison

the gospel of the spirit has been preached - not necessary the spirit itself even actively going and literally preaching to anyone -

but the gospel of the Spirit of God has been delivered


the words are shuffled - moved and switched around completely to change the message, there is a completely different message when it is changed to say .....

1Pe 3:19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;

its just taking a sentence and moving, shuffling and switching words around, moving the ending words to the middle and toward the front and taking the middle of the sentence and moving the words forward or backwards to make it say something that seems to fit with the next sentence that is also altered and changed.

just like they are also, when the attempt is made to paint a narrative that the fallen Angels were having intimacy and relations with women, and going after strange flesh . here again this is can be proven to be an alteration and changing of the original message to insert this pre - conceived teaching.

What do you think of the idea that Psalms 16 was of great encouragement to Rabbi and Messiah Yeshua - Jesus while he was "in the heart of the earth?"

Keep me safe, my God,
for in you I take refuge.
2;I say to the Lord, “You are my Lord;
apart from you I have no good thing.”
3;I say of the holy people who are in the land,
“They are the noble ones in whom is all my delight.”
4;Those who run after other gods will suffer more and more.
I will not pour out libations of blood to such gods
or take up their names on my lips.
5;Lord, you alone are my portion and my cup;
you make my lot secure.
6;The boundary lines have fallen for me in pleasant places;
surely I have a delightful inheritance.
7;I will praise the Lord, who counsels me;
even at night my heart instructs me.
8;I keep my eyes always on the Lord.
With him at my right hand, I will not be shaken.
9;Therefore my heart is glad and my tongue rejoices;
my body also will rest secure,
10;because you will not abandon me to the realm of the dead,
nor will you let your faithful[<a href="Bible Gateway passage: Psalm 16 - New International Version" title="See footnote b">b</a>] one see decay.
11;You make known to me the path of life;
you will fill me with joy in your presence,
with eternal pleasures at your right hand.

Bible Gateway passage: Psalm 16 - New International Version

A miktam of David. Keep me safe, my God, for in you I take refuge. I say to the LORD, “You are my Lord; apart from you I have no good thing.” I say of the holy people who are in the land, “They are the noble ones in whom is all my delight.” Those who run after other gods will suffer more and...

www.biblegateway.com